Zoroastrianism: 3700 Year Old Ancient Wisdom From Iran w/ Alexander Bard | AMP # 449

By Aubrey Marcus February 07, 2024

Zoroastrianism: 3700 Year Old Ancient Wisdom From Iran  w/ Alexander Bard | AMP # 449

What if a pathway existed to seamlessly connect the realms of Eastern and Western spirituality?

As we delve into history, tracing the footsteps along the ancient Silk Road trade routes spanning over 3000 years, we uncover a unique convergence of spiritual wisdom. Within this historical tapestry, Ancient Persia emerges as a pivotal connection point, embodying the heritage of Zoroastrianism—a profound bridge between the spiritual traditions of the East and West. 

In this episode with tantric monk and philosopher Alexander Bard, we explore the enduring influence of Zoroastrianism, a 3700-year-old religion that serves as a profound connection between these two worlds. We delve deep into the teachings, practices, and philosophy of Zoroaster, and the impact they could have on our modern nihilistic society that finds itself in a crisis of meaning. From embracing psychedelics to the timeless struggle between good and evil, Bard challenges you to rethink the essence of spirituality.

AUBREY: Alexander Bard. 

ALEXANDER: Aubrey Marcus. 

AUBREY: We're in person. We're live. 


AUBREY: Let's go. And the reason we're here today is because I have had this deep sensing, there's a battle going on right now. Like there's a battle. Good and bad, light and dark Empire Kingdom. However, the system, you know, the evolution of that system, whatever you wanna say, there's, it really feels like there's a battle going on and there's a religion Zoroastrianism, which actually is built around the relationship of that battle. And you're someone who might know a bit about both the battle that we're in right now and how this religion actually speaks to these forces that are acting on us both within us and externally. 

ALEXANDER: Thorastianism opened up to conversions in the West in the 1990s, and I was one of the first Westerners actually converted. I converted in 1992, and I'd studied Buddhism and Taoism densely before that because I knew that as a philosopher in my generation, we couldn't start with the Greeks again. That was getting embarrassing. The Greeks did not invent philosophy.

AUBREY: Right.

ALEXANDER: They just picked up stuff from the east and basically got it together and threw it out there. The one thing the Greeks did invent was drama not philosophy. Philosophy's older. 

AUBREY: That's impressive though. 


AUBREY: And they also invented, oh, Baaah. I love that about the Greeks. Like they got a little fuck in them, you know, like, oh, Baaah. 

ALEXANDER: Of course they did. 

AUBREY: Of course they did. 

ALEXANDER: So you learn too from these, you wait until you go to Persian dinner parties.


ALEXANDER: And the Greek fat weddings are nothing compared to them. But anyway, uh, I was offered to convert and I studied Taoism and Buddhism, but I decided to go with Sorastinism. I was, I think I was alerted. To the fact that we have to import these religious traditions to the west. We can give them technology, but we have, we have to import philosophy from the east. So I studied all these religions thoroughly. I learned the languages. I studied Mandarin, Sanskrit, Vasta to understand it, and discovered there was an Indian tradition, which we now call Buddhism. Over here there's a Chinese tradition, which we call Daoism, which is also fantastic to take from. But there's also a Persian tradition, which is Zoroastrianism and I converted in 1992. Now there are thousands of Westerners who converted. I know several people here in Texas who converted Uhm, and of course also Orasians have come from Iran India. They got out of the Mullah hellhole that's called Iran today. Uh, and came here to America and became this really successful little ethnic minority, the only ethnic minority in America. That's a higher average income and higher average education than the Jews, are the Zoroastrians. And it took them 30 years to get there. So it's a fantastic community. They also run India, by the way. So I was sort of, you know, married into the elite of India, the Tata family, they're all Zoroastrians, so, I was very excited about it. It was an important decision for me personally to make. But now there are thousands have done it. And I think we already have this massive Buddhist thing going on in the West. We have 600 temples and monasteries for Buddhism women have taken to Buddhism intensely. They leave Christianity now in droves in America and Europe and they're becoming Buddhists. And I think men are following. I also expect us to have a large Taoist, revolution going on here because we have so many Chinese and exiled left communists China, America's full of them. They're taking Taoism with them. Which is their open and free religion. 

AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: And I think with all the Iranians that have arrived in Europe and America, Zoroastrians are also gonna have a go at this.

AUBREY: Yeah. Why, Zoroastrianism? Why is it important and how does it play out as we look at the world right now? 

ALEXANDER: I think because it doesn't do the afterlife story, I think the problem Christianity in Islam is that they're both dualist religions and they're totally based on the fact that there should be an afterlife, and therefore these religions build large pyramids or graveyards, cemeteries, right? In Zoroastrianism, you take the dead body out into nature and you give it to the vultures or the Coyotes or whatever. You give it back to nature because it's just a corpse. You learn that when you die, you die. This is what you learn in Buddhism. This is what you'll learn in Taoism, in Zoroastrianism, and this is what we believe today. And therefore, these religions are the ones that are credible that we have on the world map that we can pursue today. So I suggest, but the people who live in my tantric monastery in Scandinavia study all three, but I recommend them all after a couple years to choose one and convert to it and go fully into it.

AUBREY: Mm-Hmm. When you're saying that when you die, you die, you're not talking about the non-existence of the continuity of consciousness or reincarnation or the soul?

ALEXANDER: No, I'm pro reincarnation. 

AUBREY: Right.

ALEXANDER: But what reincarnates are the archetypes. 

AUBREY: Right? 

ALEXANDER: It's not you and your memory necessarily 

AUBREY: For sure. 

ALEXANDER: But the person that I am, the person that you are, you are a certain archetype, and that's where you contribute to the society you live in. And that's a timeless quality within you. I have an archetype that I, where I contribute, and they're kind of similar because they're both kind of shamanic, both you and I, but you know, this I think is fundamentally what I call archetypology. And the archetypes are reincarnated. This is the trick to understand, that's how the world works. But Egypt was ruined during the brown sage building pyramids. Finally, like 99% of the national budget of Egypt went to building pyramids. And it was ruined, destroyed, and never returned to its form. We never had Egypt return to form after the brown sage. And I think that taught us the lesson that Islamic Christianity is insufficient towards the kind of spirituality we're looking for now. And here's the catch with Zoroastrianism, why it's gonna be the third one coming out of Asia and why you might wanna convert. This is the only world to live in that totally embraces psychedelics. 

AUBREY: And how so? 

ALEXANDER: It's called the Haoma. 

AUBREY: The Haoma.

ALEXANDER: Yeah. If you look at the world map and don't think of anything else. But just think of where the psychedelic super plants have been located, where you find, like tons of different plants you could use for psychedelic experiences and for healing and everything. You find three spots on the world map that totally stand out. These are the three psychedelic superpowers on the world map. And they're Mexico, Peru and Iran. Now I live in Europe, so Iran is the only one close to me. So I'm pursuing the Iranian thread to discover psychedelics. You can literally make ayahuasca out of ingredients you find only in Iran if you want to, even if ayahuasca, as we both know, is a brew coming out of the jungles.

AUBREY: So that would be Syrian Roux.. 

ALEXANDER: Syrian mix 

AUBREY: Mixed with mimosa. 


AUBREY: And that's how you would do it. So you'd basically get the DMT from the mimosa and the Syrian Roux acts as the MAOI and you can brew that together.

ALEXANDER: Russian archaeologists in Afghanistan and Turkmenistan have discovered that sometimes you have up to nine different ingredients into these witch's brews that these guys drank. So..

AUBREY: And this was the Hauma you're saying is like a type of, certain type of ayahuasca 

ALEXANDER: And this is the culture where the word shaman comes from? Shaman is literally a Mongolian word but it's from the original Persian word which is Zoltar. And if you read the Gathas of Zarathustra's own text, which is 3,700 years old, then he calls himself I am the Zoltar. Zoltar literally says, I am the shaman. He's the shaman who's becoming the priest. He's the first shaman in history who becomes a priest, essentially shaman, who puts on a dress or walks into the village and returns to the community to serve the community. That's what a priest is. A priest is a shaman arche typologically who becomes a priest when we start to settle. So we start a human settlement in history. The priest arrives but that's the same. It's the same character. And so the Zoroaster says that I am the Zoltar. The Zoltar is the Persian word for shaman. So when we say shamanism and we talk of Mexican, Peruvian, shamanism, the word written comes from Iran. But what's great here in the U.S, you living in Texas, is that you have these superpowers next door. You have Mexico and Peru. You have all these plants, you have all these traditions. This is why you and I both went to see Don Howard Lawler in the jungles, in the Amazonas, because we wanted to learn the Peruvian traditions. And we have.

AUBREY: Yeah. Absolutely. So there's also the Magi, which is where magic comes from. This is Zoroastrian. 


AUBREY: Right. Like so And they were, they were. What's the difference between a Magi and a Zoltar? 

ALEXANDER: A Magi is a practicing shaman in the sense that these are the guys who cook the brews and do the services, and you go to see them on a personal basis for consultations. But the Zoltar is a social role. 

AUBREY: So a master. It's a master, master of the, but he's not necessarily the shaman that's serving. 

ALEXANDER: Exactly. And in the modern context. We have mobeds today. But if you're a mopeds in the Zoroastrian community, that means you're like the local priest you go to for counseling who marries people when they get married, you know?

AUBREY: So it's about your function. 

ALEXANDER: Yes. So the different functions within the priesthood. Let's put it that way. We would probably call him magi. Magi is more like a monk today. And we would then say the Zoltar is more like the priest 

AUBREY: Or the shaman. Um, alright, so starting to understand this a little bit, let's zoom out a little bit and say, you know, 'cause I just read the Sacred Gathas of Zarathustra, A translation by Pablo Vasquez. And I found it, you know, I didn't agree with a hundred percent of the things he said, but there were some really remarkable, beautiful insights that were like, wow. You know, he was definitely tapped in. And I appreciated Zarathustra's humility. You know, in the way that he's asked, he's asking questions that sometimes he can't answer. It's almost like he's in a channeled conversation with the divine. 

ALEXANDER: He’s working towards enlightenment. 

AUBREY: He's working on it. 

ALEXANDER: This is before the Buddha. 

AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: This is where the Buddha got the idea of enlightenment from. That's why these religions are so closely interconnected. So what I do as a Zoroastrian, every morning, as I get up and meditate, and my meditation is more like a contemplation. And this is where the good versus evil thing comes in. It's really about constructive versus destructive mindset. It's not that good and evil is out there in the world. The world operates the way it does, that's called Asha. It was later imported by the Chinese, it became the Tao, in Taoism, which is exactly the same thing. In India, the same thing is called Arta, how the world works. So the first thing I do when I meditate, 

AUBREY: Which is polarity, right? 

ALEXANDER: Yeah. It's polarity is all the, I take in how the world works.

AUBREY: Right.

ALEXANDER: I adjust my life to how the world works, they call it to, to have a scientific worldview. Like why? Why would I not find out what is a lie and what is true about the world? The first thing I do. So I try to do that, and then I sit down with my own subjectivity, my own personality, and look at what am I doing in my life at the moment? And what are constructive feedback loops in my life and what are actually destructive feedback loops in my life? For example, you're married, the question then towards your wife would be when you contemplate. Does she expand in your presence or is she actually shrinking with you, having her around her at the moment? And that's what you should do in a relationship. Just say that. I want you to expand. I want you, I want to be constructive about your personal expansion. That is what Zoroastrianism is. That's all we do. We don't have 10 commandments. 

AUBREY: That right there, 

ALEXANDER: Because everything comes from that. 

AUBREY: That right there is a revolution in relationships. If you, every morning woke up to say, how much can my presence expand my partner today? 

ALEXANDER: I like when you say that.

AUBREY: You know, like so much, like, how much can I expand my partner? Bring her or him into the fullest expression of who they are. And if you both did that as your morning practice, fuck, come on man. Like you guys

ALEXANDER: But you, you see where the relationship is not working. 


ALEXANDER: And it might be some third force involved or something else irritating your relationship. But you both, if any one of you shrinks within the relationship, you gotta find out where that shrinkage is coming from. We should not shrink. We should expand until we die. 

AUBREY: Let's go. 

ALEXANDER: And the way you describe that expansion until death, like if you've lived a full whole life, you're lucky. That's called Harvatat in ancient Persian. It's the ultimate form of bliss. Have lived a full life, and ready to die and said, I've lived a full life. I've done everything I could ever do. I was the lucky one. I had a full rich life and I'm now ready to live life. That's, lived life, as a person, not as an archetype. I live a life called harvatat, then the other thing that comes in is a meditate, which is immortality. What survives is then the memory of you. So instead of going to a cemetery to find a grave of somebody who died, I passed the corpse onto nature, return it to nature. And I remember that person on the day they died every year for the next 70 years. We do that tradition in Zoroastrianism called the Polgazar. The Polgazar celebration. Remember, somebody in the community really meant a lot to you. 


ALEXANDER: It could be your own parents and you remember them the day they die for the next 70 years, every day of the year. That day of the year. That's their polgazar day. So this is how we celebrate people. Instead of building huge cemeteries, full of millions of people waiting for the return of Christ or whatever. We return their bodies to nature. We keep the memory going on them and we know their archetype will be reborn. There will be another person coming back, another man, another woman coming back to represent what they contributed. To the next community.

AUBREY: Yeah, through my own psychonautic exploration, I have a slightly different cosmology, but I still recognize the beauty of that. I feel like there's an over soul that your personal soul then surrenders to, so like an over soul, which manifests many different lives, but the over soul is still unique and distinct in the force of greater capital L life. And I've made contact with, you know, with that over soul and I know that this, I'm just a temporary incarnation called Aubrey of an Over Soul. That seems eternally evolving. 

ALEXANDER: I totally agree, Zoroaster would too. It is even two levels. There's the over-soul we call God, which unifies absolutely everything.

AUBREY: Right? 

ALEXANDER: But below the over-soul called God are the lesser gods and the lesser gods are the archetypes themselves. Catholicism eventually found out they had to include that in Catholicism. This is why they were the former Christianity that had the saints 

AUBREY: St. Michael, St. Germain. 

ALEXANDER: You go to your archetype like, okay, you are good at carpenting, you're gonna be a carpenter one day. Well then you got a lesser God who's the carpenter? And this is what you have. You have not only the over-soul, but actually have the different archetypes involved as well in your worldview. And then you represent that archetype as well as you possibly can during your life. That's what we call Harvatat. 

AUBREY: Yeah. That's cool. I mean, it seems like, when I was reading, there's so many aspects that are so congruent with the psychonautic practices that have brought me to where I am, my own understanding of the cosmos. It's like, oh, yeah, for sure. And I think so, so there's two thoughts about evil. One evil or bad is simply the absence of good, right? 


AUBREY: It's simply the absence of good, but they don't actually give it any kind of autonomy or any kind of aggregate quality and intention. It's just the absence of that doesn't feel quite true. I've been in so many fucking journeys where there is a dark force that's coming in that is trying to fuck me up. A hundred percent. You know, I've had to square off and it's not something that, like the new age, people would say, oh, integrate your darkness and love it. Yes. On the highest level, love everything, because that's the yin yang. That's the balance of the cosmos. Yes. Love it all. It was all created for us. The darkness serves a light. However, don't get it twisted in this incarnation right now. That being is just trying to fuck you up, and it's actually your job to resist it. 

ALEXANDER: That means you are a Zoroastrian, not your age. 


ALEXANDER: Because that’s exactly, I would define it. No, it is a struggle. 

AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: This is why I say it's a contemplation. I love meditation. I love Buddhism. I go to Buddhist monasteries all the time to just clean my head and do that absolute meditation towards that serious state that you're looking for. But I'm actually meditating in front of a rock when I'm doing it. That's how you practice Buddhism. When I meditate in Zoroastrianism, I meditate in front of a fire. The fire is alive. It's alive. It's a totally different experience. I am having the flux of life in front of me, and I'm part of that flux, and I'm an active agent within that flux. I have a responsibility to fight evil for good in the life that I do, but the way I describe it, not to get into some kind of childish Christian version of good and evil, we're not doing Harry Potter here. We're doing something way more profound, is that, I said the best way to translate Asha, which is to do the good, is that Asha is constructive mindset. How is your mindset constructive about your family, about your clan, your tribe, your community? How do you live up to the archetype you were given? How do you live up to the talent you have? How do you optimize that in the best way possible? Find people to collaborate with, to express that archetype the best way you possibly could. That is a daily journey you have to do every day. So I go over to Sorastrian meditation, the Tasha Maino, which we call the Diana. And then I practice that as a contemplation, which is what do I actively do in my life? How can I be constructive rather than destructive? And that's exactly, destructive is also shrinking. It's the absence of the power to expand. Expansion is an active thing. It requires my agency and your agency for expansion to happen. No civilization will ever happen by itself. 

AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: It only happens because civilized human beings are devoted to plant civilization and civilization as a concept was invented by Sorastro. Nobody thought that we could improve on the world before he came along, three-thousand-seven hundred years ago. Before that, everything was just recycling. Everything went round, round, round. Everything was the eternal return of the same until Sorastro came along and thought of the event. My latest book is called This Process and Event. There's the process fundamentally in existence, but then we can, as active human agents, be co-creators with God in this world. And that is the event. This is the idea that Zoroastrianism is brought to the world.

AUBREY: Is that there's a constant choice from the Asha, the path of the Ashavans, right? Or the Druzhvans. 

ALEXANDER: You become an Ashavan when you devote yourself to doing Asha. 

AUBREY:  Right? So, you can become an Ashavan devoted to the good or a Druzhvans, either unconsciously or consciously driven and devoted to the dark.

ALEXANDER: Exactly. The way to describe that is that stay heroic no matter what. Because if you allow your heart to be full of bitterness and you become resentful towards the world, then you're no longer a Zoroastrian. You're no longer, and this is the choice you have to make every day. So the way you do it is called humata huxta huvarshta. Humata is the contemplation itself. You think thoroughly through everything that's going on in your mind, and you realize what is constructive as a feedback loop and what is destructive. You drop the destructive, you concentrate on the constructive. You commit to it. When you commit to it. That's the second step. So, humata huxta, huxta is like swearing an oath. You swear an oath to your brothers, for the community. That I know now, what is the ashram thing to do? And I swear I know I'm gonna be an ashram man of my best ability to try to stay with the truth and plant truth into the world and build truth. That's what you do with a Huxta. The last one, huvarshta, is the practice itself. That's when you go out in the world and actually do what you're committed to. And then the next day, of course you go through, did I succeed with Ravashta yesterday? Did I fulfill it? In some cases I did. In some cases I failed. Okay. Then I drop the failures, I stay with the successes and build the next day on that conviction. So you're literally meditating on feedback loops. When you are an ashram. 

AUBREY: So in the tradition that I'm really deeply studying now. Then in a Kabbalist tradition, there's a concept called birur, the clarification of your desire. 


AUBREY: And the idea is to clarify what it is that you want so that it's clarified so that your wants and the divine wants become ontically identical. Right. Like you're actually doing, you say to God. God, what do you want? And God says, I don't know, what do you want? And you say, God, I don't know, what do you want? And then eventually you come and say, all right, we want the same thing. 


AUBREY: And that would be an ashavan at that point. 


AUBREY: So it's a similar concept. I know there was a lot of intermingling between, you know, the ancient Hebrew. 

ALEXANDER: Oh, I am a Sufi. 

AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: I'm not an Islamic Sufi. I don't pretend I'm Islamic, by the way, because Sufis aren't Islamic at all. That's why the rest of Islam hates the Sufis. But I am a Sufi, or as we now say, jokingly, a Zufi with a Z instead of Z. I am a Zoroastrian sufi. Yeah. It's a great word, isn't it? So I'm a Sufi, right? So I mean, I am a practicing Sufi. That's exactly what I am. And the relationship between Sufism and kabbalism. Extremely fascinating. I even argue in the new book in Process and event, that this Persian-Hebrew axis is the hope we have for western culture. Otherwise, we have to import Buddhism and Taoism fully from the east. But we have the Persian-Hebrew axis, which is precisely what you study now, Sufism and Kabbalah, and this is from Zoroastrianism and Judaism. Christianity has to go back to Judaism and drop the afterlife idea. Islam has to drop the afterlife idea and go back to Zoroastrianism because these are the roots of Islam and Christianity. And all recommended in the book is that if you're serious about being a Muslim and Christian and you wanna have a credible religion, you actually can believe in and practice, go back to the roots.

AUBREY: Go back to the roots.

ALEXANDER: Go back to the roots. 

AUBREY: And one of the things that I noticed in here, and I don't have it marked so I can easily say, but there's an idea of the evolution of. God and the good as well is like that. This is, it's evolving as you're evolving, so it's like, It's a constant.

ALEXANDER: We personified. 

AUBREY: Exactly. So it's like a constant process, which is also something I've, you know, learned through the Kabbalah, through like the mystical readings from Gafni, like going deep in, it's an evolving process and an evolving clarification of your desire and evolving in Zoroastrianism. It seems like they use purification as the word for clarification, but basically what I take it to mean is there's Druzhba and Ashavan forces working within us at all times because we're a mixture in this world of polarity. So you try to clarify, purify what, 

ALEXANDER: get the bitter out, and stay heroic.

AUBREY: Get the bitter out and stay heroic. And don't allow the Druzhvanic forces to turn your head. Sitra Akra, which is another Kabbalist word, the turning of the face from God. Don't allow the Druzhvanic forces to turn your face. From God, the good, the divine, and stay fucking heroic.

ALEXANDER: It's the Book of Job. It's the oldest book in the old Testament, and this is where the origin is. So the Persian Hebrew axis produced the concept of philosophy as a Zoroastrian, I call my religion master yasna. Master Yasna means the love of wisdom. 1200 years after Zoroaster, Heraclitus came to Greece, it probably occurred originally. You should read Heraclitus Fragments and Zoroaster's Gothas next to each other. They are so similar. This is the original philosophy. The philosophy of flux, the philosophy world where everything is changing all the time, and we're active agents in the world of change. This is the original philosophy long before Plato comes along with his ideas about eternal forms and things like that. Because, you know, I'm totally against Plato. I'm pro-Zoroaster and Heraclitus here. And so the Greeks hear about the concept of Master yasna. That you can have a religion, which is actually philosophy. There's no difference. It's just that it's the real religion. It's the best religion you could have. It's the religion of civilization itself. So they take the word master yasna and translate it to Greek, which is Philosophia, the love of wisdom. And what Zoroaster taught, which really helped to understand, is that it says there are two things you need to be concerned with. One of them is being itself. There is a world there. It exists. It's called Ahura from Ahu, meaning being Ahura. And the other aspect is the master, which is the mind. What he does is that he does body and mind, but not a separate thing. They're totally interconnected in Zoroastrianism, we are embodied as human beings. We have a mind and we have a body. We have both. We're beings and we have minds at the same time. And then, the religion is about the practice towards perfecting the mind. How could we think the purest, the best, most constructive possible thoughts in the act on them? 

AUBREY: Right. 

ALEXANDER: And you then discovered, of course, that this spread across Asia. This started about 1700 before Christ. It spread eastward towards China and Japan. It spread southward towards India. And these traditions then became what the Indians called Daena, which is where all the yogas are. The practice of all the yogas. That's Daena. D-A-E-N-A. Mm-Hmm. Which is what I practice every day as Zoroastrian person, Daena. The word for that in Chinese is Shan. The word for that in Vietnamese is Thien. The word for the practice in Korean is Sion. And the word for the practice in Japanese is Zen. So when I came to Japan the first time in the 1980s to practice Zen, I stayed in the Zen monastery outside of Kyoto. I was invited by the monks to become a Zen monk. I was just shocked that sitting there in front of that, those rocks with that garden meditating, was just like sitting at the fire temple in Yazd, in Iran meditating. And now finally the archaeologists have discovered, of course, that the connections between Persian and Japan were intense over like 2000 years. The exchange of ideas, what's going on all the time. So these are just the spiritual schools of Asia that developed along the trade routes. And they're almost identical. I recommend people to pick one of them and convert to it if you want to. I mean, if you're doing the Kabbalah studies, you're going to Judaism. Go for it. It's actually also part of what I call the Silk root Triad. 

AUBREY: Right. 

ALEXANDER: So, that's a good choice. 

AUBREY: Yeah. And I love, I've just loved opening my mind to more of these Zoroastrian traditions because ultimately there's a, you know, there's beauty in all of the different faces, and I think anybody should, as any philosopher would, and just look at all of them, see which ones resonate, and then potentially even create a hybrid. Like the way I feel is, I wanna hybridize as much of the best practices, the best, yogas the best, mitzvahs, the best, daenas, the best, you know, Zen practice. I want to integrate all of them and because we all kind of create our own religion anyways. You know, my friend Daniele Bellelli wrote a book, Create Your Own Religion. Basically, he was saying No two Christians are the same Christian. They worship a different aspect of the divine. They practice in a slightly different way. Everybody's always making improvisations anyways, so might as well make an improvisation. And then live that. But it is, there is something to the traditions and the accountability in the community. So I understand, also picking one lane or creating the codification and structure of your own lane and saying like, well, I'm my own thing, but this is, these are my practices, these are my yogas. This is how I worship, etc. One way or another

ALEXANDER: Exactly. I mean, if you share enough of the beliefs and practices of a community, join the community.

AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: Why should I be alone? Religion. Religion means connection. It is religion, it means how you connect people. One another. Or the way I phrase it is that as a religion is for men and spirituality is for women. It's a bit of a little provocation, but there's something to it actually, because women have started creating their own religion, and have done so for the past 50 years. This whole import of Easter spirituality to the west has been driven by women. And I appreciate that a lot. I'm working with men now spiritually. I'm focused on the men's movement in Scandinavia where I live and we run a tantric monastery, for men where we fix men so they can go out in the world and get married and do the good shit that they should do, you know?

AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: And we've been lacking that because of Protestantism in Scandinavia. We’ve been through the Catholic monasteries out of our culture 400 years ago. I think that was a terrible mistake. Monasteries are brilliant. The point with the monasteries, that's the ultimate retreat center. That's where you go to fix yourself and you fucked it up in your life, and you wanna sort your things out. Especially if you're in a relationship with a woman. She goes off to her retreat center, she goes off to her monastery with women. You go off to a monastery with men and you fix yourself, and then you meet and you continue and you thrive in your marriage. This is what we need. We need monasterial cultures. And I think people take these ideas and what's happening now is that men are waking up to the reality that they have to create their own religion. Or rather they have to pick a religion that actually they can believe in. Yeah. I mean, when I convert it, the most important thing for me, I buy this shit. Yeah. This is so me.

AUBREY: Yeah. True. 

ALEXANDER: I did psychedelics before that I had these loose ends in my life for different things. I was doing Buddhist meditation. I studied Taoism as a philosopher I found incredibly interesting. But when I discovered the Sorastrian heritage, it was just like it was much closer to home. It's as much west as it is east. It's Persia. It is the connection between east and west, and I kind of knew when I became a philosopher, that I would eventually pursue the connection between east and west and how we could really make that work. 

AUBREY: One of the things I noticed reading the, uh, reading the Gathas is the image of the cow. And the image of the cow. And I think I understand it. It's Gaia, it's Gaia, Sophia. It's fertility. It's the bountiful, plentiful loving nature of the divine that will feed you mead and milk and, and nurture and care for you, right? 


AUBREY: Is that, is that basically what it is? Because there's deep reverence.

ALEXANDER: Zoroaster comes onto the scene 1700 before Christ. He's incredibly prophetic, way ahead of his time, and he and his best friend the Staspa, establish what we call the Two-Headed Phallus. This is the beginning that actually leads all the way up to the U.S constitution. Eventually the power must be split between different power centers, otherwise you get the tyrant. Zoroastra tries to figure out how to avoid having a tyrant? If you build an empire or large community of people, how do you avoid having a tyrant? He's very concerned with that and he and Vishtaspa set out to do that. And here when you see what they did was that they actually took what we now called Hinduism and reformed it. This is only 200 years after the Indo-Iranians went their separate ways. So south the Hindu Kush, they go down into India and separate the Northern India and they have then the Sanskrit language and then north the Hindu Kush, that's Iranian culture. And they speak a language called Avesta. When I learned Avesta, I learned Sanskrit first. ‘Cause they're so similar, incredibly similar languages. It was by learning Sanskrit that I could learn Avesta and start understanding the original scriptures in Persia. 

AUBREY: So you actually can read and or converse in Avestan. 

ALEXANDER: Yes. And Sanskrit. 

AUBREY: Amazing. 

ALEXANDER: Well, I'm a philosopher. I'm supposed to do the work.

AUBREY: Well, let me just, do you, is there anything that you know, in Avestan, just so I can hear? 'cause I've just finished reading the Gothas, read them carefully and slowly and found the mystical wisdom in there. Found what I resonated with, found what I didn't understand. It was beautiful. It was a beautiful journey. 


AUBREY: And I'm super grateful for it, but I have no flavor for what the language sounds like. Do you know anything in Avestan that you could recite? 

ALEXANDER: Oh yeah. But the thing is that before I started writing about this and became a philosopher on these ideas, we already got used to that. If you can't translate karma, you can't translate karma. It's such a rich word. You can, so you just write it discursively. You just write karma instead of trying to translate it to English. And you do that with a lot of terminology from Indian China. And I just thought, well, the best thing I could possibly do then is to take these Persian terms and not translate them.

AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: So the terms are there. Asha Druzh, Harvatat Ameritat, I mean the Prussian event book, which is essentially a sort of contemporary Zoroastrian manifesto. It’s sold as a bundle together with Pablo's excellent translation by the way. So you can study both the original text from Zoroastrian study. What, what is it? Contemporary philosophical reinterpretation of Zoroastrianism. And I keep the words as they are because once people start to translate these words, the translations get, they don't get it. 

AUBREY: Sure. 

ALEXANDER: It's so wrong. And the frustration, when I learned the actual language and understood what Zoroaster meant when he used the Western language, then I realized, okay, this is what scholars of Indian and Chinese history are frustrated with.

This is why they have refused to translate all the terminology of India and China. And instead take, they've taken those, that terminology over to Western culture. So we actually have to read the word in original form because it's a way of trying to avoid misunderstandings that get very serious with time.

AUBREY: Yeah, I think, I mean, one of the things that I think really needs to be understood here is what I see Zarathustra saying is how he's pleading with the divine. How can we help convert the Druzhvins, right? He's not saying, how can we kill all the Druzhvins, right? And that's, I think, the shadow form that ultimately developed in jihadist fundamentalist mindset. Also Christian fundamentalist mindset. So many religions are like, okay, that's the bad over there. There's the Druzhvin. They're all Druzhvin a hundred percent. Let's slay them because there's no redemption. That's the crazy thing about Christianity, right? It's all about redemption. And meanwhile they're just killing people.


AUBREY: Like if you actually believed in redemption, you would stop fucking killing people. 

ALEXANDER: Well, hey, we have a problem with Islam. We got the Mullahs, we got Islamic state, we got Hamas. 


ALEXANDER: They all come out of Islam. There's a problem there. So, I think the most radical act that any human ever did was in Babylon 539 before Christ. Cyrus The Great was a Sorastrian from Persia who invaded Babylon and shocked the world. Until Cyrus The Great 539 before Christ, if you invaded another country, you killed your enemy. And before you killed the enemy, you boiled their children in oil. A bit like a mass in 2023. 

AUBREY: That was like, that was like Moloch, right?

ALEXANDER: That's October 7th in Israel. 

AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: So you got it right there. What Cyrus The Great did was that he radically transformed how he looked at warfare. What he did was that he shocked the world. He didn't kill a single Babylonian. Instead, he stood in the marketplace in Babylon and yelled at the Babylonians for not being Babylonian enough. You must be more Babylonian. Then he kissed the feet of the God Marduk. He kissed the feet of the Babylonian's own God, as a foreign invader. Can you think of how radical that was at the time? 

AUBREY: Oh, sure. They would cut the heads off. Then cut the heads off the statues.

ALEXANDER: He gave them the money and said, build a better Temple Marduk. Be better Babylonian, so you can defend yourself better next time so I don't have to fuck in the ass all over again. And he then turned Babylon into his own capital into his own empire. And then he found these quirky, funny little guys in the streets of Babylon called Hebrews. The Hebrews were apparently this Egyptian sect running on. They were trading already. They were doing banking already back then. They were terrific. He loved them to bits and told the Hebrews, what are you doing here? Well, we're actually supposed to build a temple in Jerusalem. We had a temple. He was ruined. Now we're over here doing trade. And it's like, no, no, no. You go. You can stay here and trade as much as you like, here's your money. He gave them a huge budget and said, go back to Jerusalem and build the second temple.

AUBREY: Because that's the Ashavanic path. Do good. 

ALEXANDER: Exactly. 

AUBREY: Do good with your life. Do good with the world.

ALEXANDER: And Cyrus the great until this day is the only Messiah in the Jewish religion who's a non-Jew. I mean, still today, that is the core of civilization. That is the total opposite. What happened on October the seventh? 

AUBREY: Right. 

ALEXANDER: Now, to me that's the obvious way forward because we will kill each other endlessly and we'll never get civilized unless we go down this path. And this is what I call the Persian Hebraxis, the love between the Persians and the Hebrews. And this is why I'm so involved in the political opposition in Iran and want to get rid of the Mullahs. I dunno if I get a death sentence or a torture chamber waiting for me if I arrive in Iran. But I'm very deeply involved in the struggle against demo models. I want them gone because I believe the tragedy of the Middle East is that Persia and Israel should be united. 

AUBREY: Right? By their comment. By their common roots.

ALEXANDER: Exactly. Which was them trading and exchanging ideas and concepts and children and the whole thing that happened.

ALEXANDER: And mysticism, like you and me right here, right now.

AUBREY: Absolutely. 

ALEXANDER: That is the Middle East. That's what the Middle East should be. And this axis, the Persian-Irish axis is for us Westerners. What we must go back to, because this is the really brilliant, beautiful beginning of Western culture where we contributed by inventing concepts like Empire Nation City and invented these concepts larger than tribes that could work. And when the Chinese and the Indians eventually developed their different forms of those ideas, they copied the Persians just like the Romans copied the Persians, and eventually the French copied the Romans and the French taught American Freemasons. The beauty of splitting power, the US Constitution is originally a Persian innovation coming from Zoroastrans. The priest and the chief must be separated. And the third is the matriarch. The cow Gaia, the community, the people. And the matriarch is responsible to the people. And this is beautifully done in the US Constitution. Supposedly. We'll see if Robert Kennedy can win with your help. But supposed to be the president is of course the king. 

AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: The Congress, of course, the priesthood. They dictate the law. And the Supreme Court is the bitch. That's the matriarch. Hold the other two guys responsible for keeping their promises. Now guys, if you don't keep your promises, you don't get to fuck my daughter's. That’s fundamentally how a society is structured. It’s true isn’t it Aubrey.

AUBREY: Yeah. It makes, it makes a lot, makes sense.

ALEXANDER: Yeah. And this is so deeply ingrained in culture and what Zoroasters was concerned with when he founded his religion, his philosophy. The original philosophy was that let's get all the supernatural bullshit out of the way. People can believe anything they like, I don't care. But for the elite to run an empire together, they need a court religion that they can believe in. And that must be philosophy itself. And it's forever changing. It's forever working its way towards enlightenment. It's forever learning about the world. And this endless pursuit of learning about the world, getting more and more educated about the world is the pursuit of Asher. 

AUBREY: Yeah. I mean, I think there's a, there's an impulse for unification. Just like Cyrus, the Great wanted to go in, but how do you unify and. I actually divide these words just in my own linguistics , empire is the way that most empires, not the way that Cyrus did it. Most empires go in, they kill everybody. They take over, they have absolute control. Everybody's a slave, you know? And it's all about an absolute hierarchical power structure with one ego at the top; who's the emperor? The imperator. And this is in Star Wars or whatever. There's the high dark power at the top. And then king, it's opposed by the kingdom, which is the good king. 'Cause to me, king is an archetype. That means the one who serves the people in his fullness and his fuck and his goodness to the best he can. And the one who will like Alexander the great who of course there was a Greek empire, but will lead, you know, say like, here's my double plume helmet. I'm the king. If we're gonna do this, let me stand in front and let everybody know who I'm

ALEXANDER: That is Zoroaster's best pal. That's Veshtaspa. And he does that. He constructed the first empire in human history. Which is exactly what you call the kingdom here. 

AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: You call it the kingdom. It's in central Asia. It's full of psychedelic plants and none of them are banned. 

AUBREY: Yeah, right.

ALEXANDER:  Imagine you got, it's a bit like the shoving empire in Peru. Yeah. Which is amazing. I'm going there, by the way, next month again. 

AUBREY: And that's part of our share. It's part of our shared, you know, heritage learning from Don Howard who.


AUBREY: Resurrected the old Shavin lineage of the Wachuma practices and the Vilka practices and the psychedelic medicine practices. 


AUBREY: From a civilization

ALEXANDER: And the longest period of peace ever recording human history 

AUBREY: In history. 800 years, 

ALEXANDER: Kingdom of Northern Peru. Yeah. I'm going back to shaman to want our next month. I can't, I can't help myself. I gotta take my monks with me and go

AUBREY: Well, it's a great example of the kingdom. The kingdom has legal psychedelics, period. 

ALEXANDER: Exactly. And the same thing actually happened in Central Asia. The thing is that V but about the same time was the king. Who Sorasta was the priest for? So Sorasta did not aspire to be the king. The point is that the priest supports and admires the king for being the king, and the king supports and admires the priest for being the priest. This principle is called the two-headed phallus. Whenever you see a two-headed eagle, two head, two-headed eagle, a symbol of that anywhere you find in history. This is how we immunize ourselves as men against worshiping the tyrant. We have to avoid tyrants. Today's turn is coming back. The Chinese Communist party decided to go big for it. And, uh, you know, I gave a speech here in Austin this week where I said that it sounds really weird. We actually have to fight for a free and open police state. It's impossible. We still have to do it because we, things are going out with AI and technology, the free and open police of what we have to do. So I'm a practicing Sorastian looking at the world right now, which is the biggest challenge for the world to shrink rather than constructively expand. And that will, of course, have a police state. And, um, the Chinese are going for tyranny because China with Confucianism was never immunized against the worship of the tyrant, the problem western cultures is that Plato in his republic, worships the tyrant. So Rasta was adamant we should not go for the tyrant. We must avoid him at all costs. And this is the beauty of the US Constitution that was inherited, like a separate priest and king. If you're a separate priest and king, you can then separate the yin and the yang man or woman as well. You can separate the warrior from the soldier. No, I mean the warrior for the hunter, 

AUBREY: Well, the warrior and soldier. I mean, empire loves soldiers because they will do exactly what you fucking say. True. But the empire hates warriors because Warriors stand for the good. Yeah. So if they see something and their orders are to kill and they're like. I'm not going that I am not going to kill these people. And there's many stories of these warriors who just go and we have movies of them as heroes who have orders to do something that's bad and they go, fuck you. Like, I'm not gonna do that because I'm a warrior, not a soldier. 

ALEXANDER: And the war can then become the king.


ALEXANDER: That's the point.

AUBREY: Because they're Oshavans. Yes. They serve the good. Yeah, that's true.Empire wants slave drone mindset. If they could make Robots out of everybody, that would just do everything they say they would. 'cause all they care about is power. 


AUBREY: Whereas like the Oshavonic Kingdom cares about the interesting intimacy and complexity of everybody's unique will that's bent towards Oshavonic principles. How can we create together? 

ALEXANDER: And, but what comes in though is the difference between Warrior and Hunter. Hmm. Because the hunter has to do his duty every day. And the majority of men are fundamentally hunters as an archetype. And that smaller number of men are warriors. But hunters can be warriors if they would have to. If you go to war, you have to defend yourself. Right? But the warrior is always the warrior and the warrior hunter archetypes must be kept different. If you send somebody out, is only trained to hunt, to then go into warfare, you get the Mongol invasion. 'cause you get these guys who can't tell the difference between a stranger and an animal, and they will therefore treat the stranger as an animal and kill it as if it was an animal they're hunting. And that's the tragedy of history. The real bloodbath of history is when these two archetypes are mistaken for one another. But we learn archetypes as men. We learn archetypes not by starting with man and woman. This is where I disagree with the yin yang. The yin and yang comes later. We learn archetypes by making distinction between the priest and the chief. The priest is basically the smartest or wisest guy, usually older. And we apply the chief or the king onto the strongest guy, the one we look up to with his muscles and his body can actually defend us better than anybody else. So the ultimate warrior who leads the other warriors is the king in that sense. 

AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: And this is how we men start understanding differences, because we all know that we are, we must be strong and we must be smart. One guy's smartest and one guy's strongest, and it's never the same guy. The tyrant is the guy who lies to us and says, I'm both the strongest and smartest of you all. But that's never the case. There is no such guy, and this is why we need to expose the tyrant before he comes. And in America's case today there are a lot of guys out there now who started appealing to the American monarchy, American dictatorship and things like that. I just tell 'em, you can go to China. They try to do it anyway. Why don't you do it there? Yeah. Because I think that's the wrong path to go for America

AUBREY: Well, one of the things that you mentioned, so going back to the, the court system and the Supreme Court being the matriarch, being the one that says, these are the rules, these are the rules of the house, home, Gaia, home, United States, whatever our home is, these are the rules of the home. And you men have to figure it out and abide by the rules of the home. Right? Like strong matriarch energy. 


AUBREY: You know, matrix, matriarch you know, it's all like, this is all a part of, they set the, they set the code, they set the pattern, and if you break the code, you know, then there's consequences. Now, one of the things that comes to mind for me is. The Supreme Court has held pretty well so far. Like the courts have held pretty well so far in the US, you know, they're less corrupted it seems, than the other branches, which seem to be very corrupted risk getting all of these files of CTI leaks and censorship and all of these different collusions that they've had. So we're like, uh, something a little bit wrong with these other, you know, the legislative in the executive branches so far, but the courts have kind of held up. But then you get the, you get the case of the Supreme Court Justice, who's asked point blank, let's say she's representing the matriarch and is asked point blank, what is a woman? And she can't answer that question. She's supposed to decide whether, what things are and what things aren't, and she can't actually describe what a woman is when asked in congressional terms. 

ALEXANDER: That is so deranged.

AUBREY: It's so delusional. It seems like a problem. Yes. Because then the matriarch is no longer the matriarch. She's getting confused by these Drujevanic delusions and ideas, so that there is no such thing as a woman and there is no such thing as a man. Now, that doesn't mean that there's, I understand that gender argument and that where we're a unique combination. 

ALEXANDER: Oh, I work with transitions. 

AUBREY: Of masculine and feminine. Ofcourse. Beautiful. It's like that's all beautiful, but it doesn't mean that you can't. You shouldn't be able to describe a man and woman. 

ALEXANDER: No. My work says that there are two historical sexes called man and woman undeniably. We now, with hormones and surgery, can add to categories that are called transman and transwoman. So what I'm saying to Jordan penis, somebody says that trans woman is not woman that I'm just saying woman is not transwoman. 

AUBREY: Right. 

ALEXANDER: Can you please have a little imagination, you know? 

AUBREY: Yeah, sure. 

ALEXANDER: But it's a more cosmetic thing that you can offer to some people that actually often take to that service and they actually quite enjoy it.

AUBREY: Yeah, One of my best friends, Curtis, is one of the leading transition doctors in the world, and he tells the stories of these people's lives transforming in a super beneficial way and, and mad blessings to that. 

ALEXANDER: Yeah, sure. 

AUBREY: Still, you don't have to have all this confusion and all this kind of uproar about it.

ALEXANDER: No. I'll tell you what, the people who went through transition with me, I even did a podcast in America who, Transgender Express, if you wanna look into it. We trans people are fantastic and totally agree with me. And they said, no, it's just added something more to history we didn't have before. We just, of course, again, Zoroastrian, I mean, technology incredibly Zoroastrian. We invent new technologies all the time. We all dreamed about talking to people on the other side of the planet. We invented the smartphone. I mean, we invent things all the time and we then have to learn how to use them wisely, which is of course the next project. We need to go through that process called dialectics. I don't have a problem with that at all, but the fact that nature itself is based on man or woman because it's based on reproduction that has to have two sexes, just, it's just ridiculous. Try to deny that.

AUBREY: Yeah. There's so many traps in places that we get lost, and I would assume that the Zoroastrians would say that, again, this is not just a random coincidental confusion, but there's actually a force, Angra, Menu and the other Drujvanic entities that are, that are actually trying from an extraplanetary perspective, working in us as us, and through us of course, to actually confuse us, delude us, fuck us up, bring us into less expansion and more contraction and more control. So it's not just that people are getting confused, there's force.

ALEXANDER: You've got quite a few people who live very resentful lives and enjoy their own resentment towards life and they help out quite a lot too. Um, so I would say the problem, I see it very clearly from Scandinavia, 'cause Scandinavia is the Head of America here. We have paid a very high price for the secularization of the West. Dropping Christianity has been enormously costly. And what people have done is that they can't live without religion. So what they've done is that they placed religion, which was decent, with an even worse religion, which is called ideology. So political ideology has, has taken almost 

AUBREY: Almost like idolology. 

ALEXANDER: Yeah, it does. And an ideology in western context starts with Rousseau. And the Jacobins today, it's called Woke culture. Um, fights biology in nature itself. And that to me is the fight Asha. 

AUBREY: Right, that's the cow 

ALEXANDER: In my contemplation in the morning. The first is total acceptance of the world as it is. This is Nietzsche's amor Fati. There's a reason why Nietzsche named his most famous book after Zoroasters. He knew about historical figures. He knew what his ideas were. People read the Avesta in Germany in the 1900s when it arrived from Iran, it was high culture. Hegel and Nietzsche really learned about these. They learned both about Indian and Iranian culture at the time. So he knew what he was talking about. And this, what I fundamentally do in my meditation in the morning is to totally accept nature and biology is the Fundament of all existence. And then on top of that biology, I can imagine, for example, technology, which is what we human beings do. I can imagine culture. So culture is just nature 2.0 based on nature. But if you try to fight and deny nature and our nature operates, you are completely delusional. And this started with Rousseau. Then eventually led to Robespierre and the Jacobins during the French Revolution. And this is why in this book Prussian event, my latest book I write about these guys, I call them the Pillar saints of history. They're the guys who deny that nature exists. And they say that no, everything is a social construction. Actually it isn't.

AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: Actually, you are yourself a product of nature.

AUBREY: Right.

ALEXANDER: You're born out of a mother's womb. We don't do artificial babies. At least not yet. And you're not one of them. So you're very much a product of nature. And the only thing we humans have done and tried to do with civilization, the last three or 4,000, is try to build a culture on top of nature that doesn't deny or fight with nature, but actually embraces nature and builds from it. It. 

AUBREY: Yeah. And what 

ALEXANDER: We need religion more than ever, and we need to get the political ideologies out of the way. And I think you and I represent that we're going down the mystical path, you and I, with Kabbalah and Sufism. We're going down that path to explore what that means and to be deeply religious as a man. And the first thing we do is to acknowledge that nature is amazing and we have to worship in front of nature. This is when I worshiped Al-Hurra. When I then worshiped the culture, I worshiped the master. 

AUBREY: One of the things about nature that I think is also trying to be denied and you know, kind of defiled and degraded is the idea of competition. 


AUBREY: And competition is in nature. All the way up and all the way down. And it's in our nature, we're going to compete. That's why capitalism works, is because it allows for competition, which creates more evolution, creativity, expansiveness, innovation, all of these different things. We're always going to compete, and it's about just setting the rules of the competition so that the rules can't be bent in a way that they're skewed. So this late stage crony capitalism where the corporate powers have so much power over the matriarch, the courts and power over the king and power over  the people, you know, the congress and the house and all of that. They have so much power that they exert that they're not playing fair anymore. It's like if somebody was a wealthy enough basketball player, they could just make a rule that everybody had to move out of the way when they went down the lane. Well, they would score every time, right? Like they're not playing fair. So it's like, it's our job. It's not the problem with capitalism. The problem is that the king hasn't held strong. He's given into the seductions of the money and the control of these, you know, corporate powers. 


AUBREY: And the mother's given in some control. And then the people have given up some control and everybody's been captured by this thing. And so a big part of this, and what I think Bobby Kennedy stands for, is to come in the return of the motherfucking king and say, enough, we're gonna, I'm gonna create a fair game. A fair game, and there's gonna be real actual competition. And which he's representing, is competing against the whole system because the whole system has been swallowed and captured by these forces. 


AUBREY: And he's gonna stand and say no, like shed off all of those shackles and say, no. Now we have a fair playing field.

ALEXANDER: And it's especially among men. So if you work spiritually with men, you discover that fair competition is fundamentally to their own identity. I go as far in the book as to say that it's actually a hatred of the phallus itself to deny competition and its enormous contribution to culture.

AUBREY: Right. 

ALEXANDER: It's hatred of the dick, what it stands for. 

AUBREY: Right. 

ALEXANDER: The phallus stands precisely for this fair competition is phallic. And we men must pursue that. When I do spiritual work with men, especially young men in Scandinavia, they're completely lost. They hear me on one of those podcasts that I do in Sweden and they contact me in, and the guys that I work with, and we get them into men's work, the first thing we do is send them off to nature. Back into nature so they can survive in nature. And then martial arts. 

AUBREY: Yeah. It’s..

ALEXANDER: So they can go competitive. And they love it. 

AUBREY: I can't try that. 

ALEXANDER: And finally, this is so me, I should be doing this. And don't go to one of those studios that makes the men and the women in the same place. Go to a martial arts studio for men only and learn how to be man among men and fight it out and respect the guy who beats you. And it is, you know, the one thing they love the most to get beaten. 

AUBREY: Of course. I mean, there's something, 

ALEXANDER: There's another guy who can be stronger or better than they are, or they love it. They love it. 

AUBREY: There's something deeply trustable. 

ALEXANDER: Exactly. 

AUBREY: When you can actually meet another, meet another one of your brothers.


AUBREY: And compete. 


AUBREY: And like really actually feel their strength and their power and their desire to beat you. And you can allow all of that competition and all of your badness, all that shit talk and all of the way that, like when I, I'm about to play basketball after this podcast, right? I got, I got the boys coming. We've been talking shit all week. It's been a, you know, December 9th game.

ALEXANDER: I'm off to the pool at the house. 

AUBREY: Yeah, for sure. 

ALEXANDER: Same thing. 

AUBREY: But this is like, we live for it and this is the only thing. We finished two, three hours playing like hard, hard games and we're just, our bodies are wrecked. And we're like, one more, one more. Yeah, one more. Because we love it. We like, love the ability to actually test yourself against your brothers and it creates this deepened bond of friendship that transcends what many friendships can be when brothers can get together and do that. And it's also why in the Fit for Service program that I teach and coach this year with the other coaches, we had a lot about sacred competition. So we got kendo swords, you know, and put on all the gear and we would square off with kendo and it was, I was epic. It was like, it was beautiful because of boxing and Muay Thai, the problem is head trauma. It's actually physical hardware damage that you're doing. Jiu-jitsu is amazing. And you know, still, if you don't know leg locks and things like that, you can rip a knee out or, you know, it's hard to get everybody involved in a Jiu-Jitsu, unless you've been trained in the arts. So you understand, how, when to tap, when not to tap, but with Kendo, it just allows that pure animalistic competition force to be pushed through the phallus of the sword. Say like, this is my phallus and this is me competing against your phallus, your sword. It's literally crossing swords. That's why actually, you know, crossing, crossing dicks is also called crossing swords.


AUBREY: In pop culture, it's like legitimately the sword is your phallus, it's your discernment, it's your thrust, it's your drive. And when you literally cross swords, then there's something that is emerging out of there. I know. 

ALEXANDER: It’s not like we're hiding our phallus worship here. 

AUBREY: Right, exactly. I'm just gonna do swordplay. 

ALEXANDER: And this is the lesson learned from Zoroastrianism. This is the contest of the ahura of the body itself. Like once you learn to enjoy that and understand the beauty of it and the capacity of it, which is also the training of the warrior, as part of that, then you can also do the mind and you can understand, mind is also competitive, is a competition between ideas. This is public debate.

AUBREY: Of course.

ALEXANDER: This one learned guys, the older guys who learned, have lived long lives, go up and fight each other over the ideas, and you listen to them, you learn from them, and you make up your own mind, and then you retry that again. So once we've learned to be competitive in the physical and physiological in the body, then we also understand the beauty of the competition between ideas. And this is what Zoroastrianism calls Mazda. So what we Zoroastrians say is that our, so Buddhist brothers essentially stay within the Ahura, we call them Ahurayasni. Like they are worshiping beings, which a Buddhist would agree with. They're worshiping being the, staying in the being. We go from being, which is perfectly fine to worship, to go into worship of the mind. And this we call Master Yasna. This is mind worship.

AUBREY: Which is the deep problem with the censorship and the squashing of debates and not allowing people to actually allow their ideas to be contested in a public..


AUBREY: In a public venue. It's fucking crazy that they're trying to suppress and censor all of these contesting ideas. Whether it's ideas, medical ideas about covid, or whether it's political ideas. You gotta let them square off and fight it out. And also, we saw a super degraded form of this debate in Trump-Biden debates, which weren't debates. They were just like using parlor tricks and defamations and ad hominem attacks and it was all bullshit. There was no real Mazda. 

ALEXANDER: It's ironic politics. 

AUBREY: It's ironic. There's no Mazda. 

ALEXANDER: It's ironic. 

AUBREY: There was no Battle of the mind. 

ALEXANDER: It's only a TV show. It's ironic. 


ALEXANDER: Totally ironic. 


ALEXANDER: That's right. People will vote for Trump over Biden, I believe, next year for the simple reason that he at least, at least is honest about his irony. But we'll see if Kennedy comes into the race, we get a chance to have a guy who represents the return of the presidency as it should be. Like you would call the king. 

AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: Proper king. We'll see how it goes, but I totally support you in that. 

AUBREY: Fuck, yeah. 

ALEXANDER: Yeah. But I see from the outside. Yeah, absolutely. And we have another note here. I do come from Sweden. We have a little person called Greta Thunberg here, as involved, as well. Uh, you know, the irony here, you know, I was in the music industry for 25 years and I actually wrote Greta Thunberg's Mother's big hit song. 

AUBREY: No way. 

ALEXANDER: Yeah. I wrote that song and know the family. Her name is Marlena, she's an opera singer, and she wanted to do a pop record and you know what the title of that song is. You can find it on Spotify by the way, Malena, her name is Malena. The song is called Tragedy and it's almost like I wrote about her daughter. 

AUBREY: So what are your thoughts?

ALEXANDER: Greta Thunberg comes from the same country that I do. 

AUBREY: So what are your thoughts? I don't, I'm not super familiar. I know who she is. 

ALEXANDER: I think Greta Thunberg and her followers are going down the totalitarian route. They are the Jacobins today. I know that the German Israeli Secret Police are very concerned with her and her followers right now. I've said all along that whenever these pacifists and vegetarians show up in history and pride themselves in their lifestyle, which is like denying education, Hey, I don't go to school. I'm so smart that I had to go to school. You know, that's the pillar Saint in history and the Pillar Saints are incredibly dangerous and it's the Pillar Saints to teach us we should deny biology itself. They go after nature itself. 'cause nature itself must be reconstructed into something weird that they know what it is and apparently they are the ones who have the solution. Right. I'm not surprised that all the greater Tumber dropped climate 'cause she wasn't really interested in climate. She's much more interested in herself than in anything else. She inherited that from her mother. And I say this, they consume as much as they like, but to me it's clear that's the case. So she dropped the climate. Oh no we don't do climate. No. She kisses the ass of Hamas. Wait a second. Weren't there some Germans in the 1970s that blew up like half of Europe called the Badr-Minov League. And what happened with the Badr-Minov League? I thought they were so fucking fancy. Oh, they went to Palestine and hangout with a gang called Black September and it started blowing up, you know, flights over Europe and things like that, 'cause they hated the Jews. It's the same thing again. I think honestly, Greta Thunberg and her followers, especially in Germany, are going towards becoming a green bottom line of these, these forces are incredibly dangerous.

AUBREY: Yeah. Because they, you know 

ALEXANDER: She's 20 years old. No, she's not a girl any longer. You can't just dismiss her and say, oh, she's a girl. She doesn't know anybody. You can't. She's a twenty-year-old, very sharp woman with a very, very clear-cut narcissistic agenda. And she thinks she's totally superior to you and me. She knows best. This is the tyrant, but it is the princess tyrant that we called her in Sweden. Viktor Vibom and I have identified the princess tyrant this time around. The tyrant is a twenty-year-old girl. ‘Cause nobody, nobody's allowed to speak against her. She won't listen to differing opinions. She will tell you no, we all know. Israel is evil. They're colonizers, as if Israelis haven't always lived in the Middle East. As if not 900,000 Jews left Arab countries and moved to Israel in 1948 to escape their world of oppression so they could finally be Jews in their own home country. As if that did not occur to anybody, as if not 2 million Arabs live in Israel's Israeli citizens. All of this is completely denied by the Great Determiner followers. They're going into a very dark place. 

AUBREY: Well, the idea is, what's interesting is, in all of these, there's almost a spark of goodness. They think it's like a false light. They think they're actually serving. They actually think they're serving the good, and they think they're serving the whole, like everybody who is coercing, shaming, pressuring other people into getting, you know, getting the job, get the vac pressure, pressure, shame. 

ALEXANDER: Yes, yes. 

AUBREY: Use anything you can't, because that's what makes you virtuous. They're hijacking our natural inherent draw and allurement to the Ashavanic path to Asha. 


AUBREY: To the good. They're hijacking that and not realizing that their own narcissism and their own ego games, the desire to virtue signal to be better than another person based on a set of rules that you've created that makes you better. And it's all of this hierarchical, tyrannical power. 

ALEXANDER: This is precisely what a narcissist is. A narcissist mistakes his or her own ego for being good. 

AUBREY: Right. 

ALEXANDER: Like I am supremely good just because I exist. No you are not. Goodness is a struggle every day to go into a constructive mindset to serve others, not you. That's a struggle every day and it means nothing. If your acts don't follow your thinking. 


ALEXANDER: It means nothing, not going to school is not impressive. It's a non-act. How can you encourage millions of kids out there not to go to school? 

AUBREY: Well, schools are kind of 

ALEXANDER: What gives you the right to do that? Right? 

AUBREY: Schools are kind of fucked up. 

ALEXANDER: They are, but it's even worse not to go to them at all. 

AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: And or not have parents to homeschool you, whatever. 

AUBREY: Well, I mean, the idea of the pursuit of real knowledge. 

ALEXANDER: The pursuit is this is

AUBREY: Is essential. 


AUBREY: But I'd much rather have him go to Jordan Peterson's Academy.

ALEXANDER: I love gnosticism when it's modest, but the gnostic dualists have always been the curse in humanity and the perfect gnostic dualist to think she doesn't need to know anything because she knows everything already perfectly, is Greta Thunberg. Watch out for these characters in history. They've always been. They always smile at first and they're green and they're whatever goodness, whatever. And then they get bloody. And when they don't get their way, that’s what Mao’s revolution

AUBREY: Well, it's like Mal started all the farmers you're gonna get. 


AUBREY: You're gonna get to own the land and you're gonna get bountiful. And then 80 million Genocidal deaths later and starvations later. It's all power, it's all control. As soon as it's all beautiful promises. Oh, this is gonna be a lovely, lovely beat. And then they get power, and then it's either the guillotine or it's starvation, or it's the guns, or it's whatever, or the fucking concentration, whatever the fuck it is. It always turns that way. Like this is just, this is just do. 

ALEXANDER: Do you know Pol Pot? 


ALEXANDER: Pol Pot was the dependent in Cambodia. 

AUBREY: Yeah. Yeah.

ALEXANDER: Who wrote like 2 million of his own countrymen before he got rid of him. Right. Do you know what Pol Pot wrote his PhD on at Sorbonne in France in 1967 before he went back to Cambodia and slaughtered his own people. He wrote his PhD on Rosso. Rosso is also the hero of Greta Thunberg. Rosso was the hero out of Hitler. Rosso was the hero of Mao. It wasn't Karl Marx. It was Rosso.

AUBREY: Why? What was the core? What's the core of Rosso's teachings that has lured people to it? 

ALEXANDER: The core of Rosso's teaching is that we are naturally goodness in ourselves, and we don't have to do anything about it. And we can just walk out in the world and be this goodness. And therefore, anything that stands in our way of pursuing our narcissistic traits is evil and must be removed. It's appealing directly to the ego in the worst possible form. I can think of anything more Druj than Rosso. And this is the curse. You had a western culture and all the terrible mistakes made in Trans-Siberias. 

AUBREY: Any more in the Druj than Rosso? 


AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: The tabula rasa? No, the tabula rasa again. Oh no. We're born without sex because we are just socially constructed as men or women. Bullshit. We're born with hormones everywhere, as any transsexual can tell you as well. Their problem is that their brains are one thing and the genital organs look a bit different. Well then help them out with that. Doesn't change the fact. The vast majority of men, 99.5% of men and women, gay, straight, doesn't matter, are perfectly happy to be men and women and they should be. And they are. And that's an undeniable fact. Rousseau hated that. He hated that. 

AUBREY: Yeah, it's a war against nature. 

ALEXANDER: So this is the problem. This is what we write in the book about, we call the Pillar of Saints of History, and they always start with a smile to walk around with their goodness. The smirky faces. But once you start looking around a few years later, they're the ones who love the guillotine the most and they love killing their enemies because they really want things to be their way.

AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: All their way. It's against nature itself. 

AUBREY: They think they have a monopoly on their understanding of the good. 


AUBREY: And once you have a monopoly and you are, you've conflated yourself with the good, which lives in you, as you, through you, hopefully, but always beyond you. You always bow to the mystery of the greater goodness.


AUBREY: And try to follow it and purify, clarify as much as you can, but you're bound by this field that is real. There's a structure. 


AUBREY: That's real. 


AUBREY:  And you bow before the mystery of that structure, which even the greatest mind can't fully actually explore and understand. It's not our privilege to get to that perspective, but certain prophets like Zarathustra do their best.


AUBREY: To try and to try and download through their own, you know, hermeneutic prism, their own way of understanding the truth that's always available that we find when we're in psychedelic ceremonies and we find the truth that comes through. Sometimes it's through vision or feeling or thought 

ALEXANDER: And all that is about embodiment. It's about embodiment all the time. I always repeat the word when things go wrong. You either have a pillar saint, or what I call the boy far away in front of you. The pillar saint is the guy who hates everything beneath his own throat, but he also hates anything beneath your throat. It's all mine with our body. He's a dualist. He's own mind with our body. And he hates this world. He hates this world. This world is created by the demiurge. This world is evil. We must leave this world and go to some other place where only spirits exist and nothing is physical. This is a guy who hates sex. And he won't deal with violence except his own passive aggressions that are enormous, right? This is the guy, the other guy is the guy who hates everything above his throat. He's the boy Pharaoh. He will only go for the muscles and for the energy in his body, but he hates anybody who can think because his thinking is not the best thinking you would find him. He has no sense of humor, and he's the other guy who has problems with history. This is the guy who just runs off to the next village. And slaughters, everybody kills them because he doesn't know any better with no intention at all to work for anything. There's no point to it. He's just revengeful, constantly revengeful. What we're doing in our teaching, both you and I, is that we teach you, man, you're both above your throat and beneath your throat. And if you're better at one of the two, then that's your contribution to the community and your archetype. And what you're obliged to do is to admire the guys out the other half. 

AUBREY: Right. 

ALEXANDER: If you're good at mine, admire the guys who have the body. If you're not very good at martial arts, but you're good at the mind games, I'll take you to a martial arts Gala. I'll put you in the front seat and you'll scream your voice off because you will love those guys who stand there. Admire these two heroes fighting it out in the ring. You will love it. You're supposed to be their audience. You're supposed to be their voyeur because they will then look at you when you go into a hectic debate where ideas are being mashed with each other and crushed against each other and all that. They'll admire you for being the smart guy who can do the same thing with ideas that they do with bodies. This is how a society must work and this is what masculinity is. And I'm told for this unification, this admiration between the priest and the chief as fundamental archetypes. 

AUBREY: Right? 

ALEXANDER: And now this, this is what we're preaching. We are allergic to the people who walk out in the world today and are pillar saints, for example. And we discover them by not having a sense of humor being full of themselves. And they hate at least half of themselves. Meaning they hate at least half what humanity is. 

AUBREY:Yeah. Laughter and fuck. 


AUBREY: If you're not tapped into laughter and fuck, you're missing the point somehow. 

ALEXANDER: You're missing the point. Yes. 

AUBREY: I've always said that you can tell the spiritual master by the sound of their laughter. 

ALEXANDER: I say the same thing I said, I'm a philosopher. Don't ever trust a guy who calls himself a philosopher who doesn't look like he's got a great sex life. 'Cause if a philosopher hasn't delivered a great sex life to him, he's number one, a really mediocre philosopher and he's probably full of it in his head. And he hates people with great sex lives. And that's gonna be all that comes out of his mouth. You know, Freud was so damn right. And always when people hate me for saying that Freud was right, they go up against Freud. I just look at them and I say, how's your sex life brother? And I exposed him instantly. They have terrible sex lives, you know? But that's what we preach. You do it. I do it. We just do it on two different sides of the Atlantic. But that's why I admire your work, and it's an honor to be here. I think that's what we're doing.

AUBREY: Yeah. When he's, one thing I didn't understand is he talks about the mantras.

ALEXANDER: Zoroaster. Yeah. 

AUBREY: Zoroaster talks about the mantras. What are the mantras? 'cause I, 'cause we know mantras that come, I know it from the, you know, Hindu path, the Kashmir Shaiv, that whole path, like mantras, om mani, padni hum. You know, mantras that you can say. Is that, was that what that is in contemporary image, 

ALEXANDER: We use it that way. Mantra is a word that actually, if you look at it, etymologically, its origin. It means that something is repeated. So it can be a person, it could be a mantra. So in Saurashtra you can be a mantra. That means you, it's another form of saying you're a bedin or an Asha. They have all these beautiful words for being a good Saurashtra. Like bedin means you're a contributing member of the community. You're bedin, you are allied with the faith din, and you be, you support the faith. You do the faith. Asha means you practice Asha. And you're also enhancing Asha in the world by practicing Asha. Therefore you're an Asha. So the same thing can be said about the mantra. So mantra is used in different ways, depending on context, but because a lot of the way you do this is, it's all the text is poetic because that's how you memorized it. You have to remember that before we, even up until the point we got the printing press in like 1450, memorizing a text was absolutely essential.

AUBREY: Right?

ALEXANDER: This text, the Goth was very likely memorized for several hundred years before it was written down. And then it was written down. And of course then you discover it's a verse. So its rhyming Gothas literally means the songs. It was sung, you sang the songs to memorize Zoroasters and his relationship towards Ahura and towards Masta and what it means to be a good Zoroastrian. So the word mantra depends on context, I would answer.

AUBREY: Yeah. What about

Alexander but that's what you mean when you use the mantra we say, I repeat the words. Right. It's not the words that are the mantra, it's the repetition of the words we use the mantra

AUBREY: And for the repetition of that Good action. 


AUBREY: You know, so it's practice.


AUBREY: In another way, practice. Practice is repetition. How do you practice? Free throws? 

ALEXANDER: Exactly. 

AUBREY: You fucking shoot free throws. 

ALEXANDER: And if you're doing the good repetition, you are a mantra. You become the guy who does the mantra. Yeah,

AUBREY: I understand that. What about holidays, festivals? Did, is there any of that, you know, recollection in the, 

ALEXANDER: There are four of them.

AUBREY: There are four. Okay. Tell me about Zoroastrian holidays.

ALEXANDER: Uh, there's the spring Equinox and the fall Equinox. 

AUBREY: No, of course it is. 

ALEXANDER: And there's the winter solstice and the summer solstice. 

AUBREY: God damn it. That's what I thought. 

ALEXANDER: We celebrate all four. 

AUBREY: Of course. 

ALEXANDER: And this is the thing 

AUBREY: Of course, 'cause we're in the, this is 

ALEXANDER: All Iranians do no rules. So this is the thing. There's a lot of Zoroastrianism in Iranian culture. You have to go to an Iranian New Year's celebrity. It's in March, either the 20th or 28th usually. It's the same point in time all over the world. The exact time of the tropical new year is the spring equinox, and it's celebrated called Novruss, which literally means the new turn or the new year. Novruss. It's a huge thing with Iranians. And in central Asia, Afghans celebrate Novruss. So this is something, even the Muslims, they celebrate Novruss, and then you do the other. You got the Tirgan. The Merigan. And the funny thing is that what you celebrate mid-December is called Yalda. And Yalda is the original Yuletide. So the English word Yul comes from Yalda, which originally is a Western Sanskrit into European. Celebration of the winter solstice. The darkest night of the year. And what you do as a Zoroasters, if you live in Australia, you just switch it around. You do it over us in September. 

AUBREY: Right. 

ALEXANDER: So it's very practical. They don't celebrate anything else because once somebody died, they've died and you celebrate your community, your anjuman, you celebrate the anjuman constantly. You celebrate the anjuman every day when you meditate. 'Cause you're part of your community. 

AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: So you don't need a specific date for that. There are no other days you would celebrate.

AUBREY: Is there any kind of structures, you know, now we're getting into social structures which may not pertain to this religion, but were there social structures within the bounds of relationship, you know, like certainly traditional monogamy has deep Christian influence in the ideas that are around it. What are the Zoroastrians' ideas of man-woman relating and marriage, and is that related to the religion? Of course, most of the time in the U.S still there's pastors, Christian pastors who officiate most of the weddings. And I hate going to weddings 'cause I think there's great beauty in the teachings of Yeshua Mad blessings. And I've felt contact with that force that I would call Yeshua and been blown away. And so the deepest bow, I'm not, you know, I'm on team. Like people are like, you need to bring Jesus into your life. Like too late. I love Yeshua, but Christianity I have some problems with fundamentally and so they're kind of guiding these marriages and it seems like there's a desire, at least I have for this evolving understanding of. Lots of these different practices, birth, death, marriage, you know, all of these different things. Do the Zoroastrians cover all of these major moments in a person's life? 

ALEXANDER: Yeah, they celebrate them. But like the first time I came to India in the 1980s and went out with these Parsis and I went out with some elderly people. The Parsis of India, they're the Jews of India, basically. They run the country, they're 200,000 of them, and they own everything. So including the national Airline, you know, the Tata family are Zoroastrians, right? So I just hang out with 'em and, and learn their culture. And, you know, you, you've kind of discreet, you're sort of invited into the community and you're like, so what's your attitude towards sex? And they're like, oh, no problem at all. Let's go to the Shiva Shakti temple, 

AUBREY: Right? So that's, 

ALEXANDER: And literally walk into an orgy with these people who are like, in their late seventies, you know, it's just like, uh, no, that's not a problem at all. You know, we self arrange our marriages. We don't have our marriages arranged by our grandfathers, like the Hindus do. We self arrange our marriages? We arrange them in between us. And I got offers from Parsi women to marry them. Like, you know, running a family is a corporation to the Zoroastrians. He's running a corporation. It's like you marry a woman who's solid and she will respect it for it. You sleep with her a couple of times and have a couple of kids and the kids go to Harvard and Stanford. They all do. All the Zoroastrian kids go to these elite schools, you know. So, they arrange the marriages. And the marriages last 

AUBREY: Probably the general, don’t say all, but 

ALEXANDER: Divorce rate is very low, but they obviously can sleep with anything they like. It's just like, so being gay is not an issue

AUBREY: Right? 

ALEXANDER: You can still get married and have children with a woman if you're a gay man, you can just go off and have gay sex with gay guys. They don't care. My discoveries were Zoroastrians, they didn't care. And that of course led me onto their attitude towards psychedelics and I was in Mumbai. One of these DOS tours is like an Indian Zoroastrian priest, you know, they have very long traditions. Everything in India has been around for a long time. You might not even ask when it started 'cause they might not even know, but this guy was drinking bull’s pee. I was just this western guy, a philosophy student. I was in India and he was drinking the Bull’s pee with me. And he's just like, yeah, but like, okay, you drink bull’s pee. It's not the first thing I drink. It's not champagne, you know?. So I'm like, uh, why did you feed the bull? And he's just like, shh, you must not ask. 

AUBREY: Probably Eman mascara, right? 

ALEXANDER: Of course. 

AUBREY: Yeah. Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: The whole thing. They drink the bull’s pee because they give the drugs that they can't digest to the bull. That's where the bull is sacred. Yeah. And then they drink the bull's pee full of the damn drug and off they go 

AUBREY: I mean, well that's where the Santa Claus myths of the Ammonita Muscaria mushroom 

ALEXANDER: Exactly. 

AUBREY: Given to the reindeer. And then the shamans, the Zoltars of that region, would drink the piss of the reindeer. They'd dress up in red and white and they would go deliver presents to the kids and they'd be jolly and jolly and red-faced because they're drunk on this gaba agonist, which comes through the Ammonita muscaria mushroom. And all's good. And now we have fucking Christmas and reindeer and Santa Claus. And red and white. They are all based on this mushroom. But you're saying that it was also mimicked in other cultures with bulls. Of course.

ALEXANDER: Yeah. So I discovered that the Homa, which Sorastar talks about in the Gothas, he calls himself a Zoltar. The Homa is the Iranian version of the Indian Soma. But here's the trick. Iran and central Asia's full of psychedelic plants. So their Haoma was far more potent than anything ever drunk in India, when you drink the Soma. India essentially just has three different psychedelic or drug traditions, and that's the cannabis, that's the opiates and that's the shrooms. Those are the three things you find in India. Naturally. Africa is the same way. That's why African shamans do tons of mushrooms. 'cause that's what they have. 

AUBREY: Well, they have a bogga. 

ALEXANDER: You can take what you have. They have a bogga is different because a bogga is basically a rite of passage thing. It's not a drug you take constantly because then you blow your brains out. A bogga is specifically something you should do once in your life. It's a bit like a five-inch ODMT in Mexico, which according to Mexico, Mexicans the sapit or something. You do it once in your life. If you're gonna do it repeatedly, you better have a really good reason why you do it again, because the memory of the experience is good enough. Right. So. These traditions are the ones you have when you then come to Iran. This research is being done today. One of my best friends, I've done podcasts with him is Shaheen Ekman. He lives in Vancouver, Canada. He's an Iranian Canadian. He runs a psychedelic startup in California. He's a great guy, the sweetest guy ever. Shohin has gone back to Iran and Afghanistan and traced to find every minor ingredient you could have in the original Homa because Islam has fought these behaviors really, really hard. Islam just like Christianity got after anybody who's ever used psychedelics. 'cause they hate both alcohol, 'em, psychedelics. Islam is religion without fun. Well, and let's put it that way. Yeah. 

AUBREY: They, and they hate the dancing, 

ALEXANDER: But the sufis of course. 

AUBREY: Dancing. Dancing. 

ALEXANDER: The sufis of course did it anyway. 

AUBREY: Dancing and the beau and the beautiful and like and the goddess self. Anything that gets you embodied in your body, like in your fuck.

ALEXANDER: They hate music for God's sake. 

AUBREY: Yeah, exactly. 

ALEXANDER: But the Sufis protested always did it, which is why the Zoroastrian tradition in Iran survived under the umbrella of Sufism. Jolene is one of the experts working on this at the moment. I put him in contact with guys here in the States who now go to Mexico and Peru and try to find all the plants there and work with Mexicans and Peruvians. I think we're doing fantastic work right now rewriting the history of psychedelics. Finding all the plants that people have used and discovering their properties. And see also what we can do, when we do the different mixes of these different psychedelics. If you are involved with this work, I'm all with this work. A guy like Shuhin is fantastic. You wanna have him on the show, invite him. He's a great guy. He lives in Vancouver. I actually discovered him because he was running the biggest Persian cultural festival in North America and his own, he was just a kid. 


ALEXANDER: And then I learned that he was Zoroastrian and interested in his psychedelics. And that was his journey. 

AUBREY: What if, if you wanna study Sufism, obviously I've read a lot of Rumi, I've read a lot of his views. And it's..

ALEXANDER: Love those guys. 

AUBREY: It's beautiful. Right?

ALEXANDER: I love them. 

AUBREY: You gotta fucking love him. You know? 

ALEXANDER: And I'm totally into it 

AUBREY: And if you wanna actually pursue that. I mean, you call yourself a Sufi, so you're kind of a unique blend of Sufism and Zoroastrianism. And how did you study on the Sufi path? You know, to actually, like who do you work with now? Because I understand you can read.

ALEXANDER: You have to live with them. It's sacred knowledge. 

AUBREY: Yeah. 

ALEXANDER: And this is weird, today we got the internet and everything is published, but we're also learning now that some things should never be online. This is a public conversation we're having. So I'm not gonna talk about the Golden Ritual with you. But we can talk about it when we turn off the cameras and the microphones. So sacred knowledge must not be passed into the public. And this is the difference between Tantra and Sutra in Old Eastern Religions. And I think we have to import that distinction here. I argue that in the process of an event, it has to be important. Tantric knowledge is knowledge about absolutely everything. Ultimate truth about everything. But not everybody can handle it. So keep it in a specific Tantric space, a Tantric container

AUBREY: A temple.

ALEXANDER: Yes. Sutra 

AUBREY: Or a mystery school. 

ALEXANDER: Sutra is what we teach people in general in a society to keep a society together. Sutric knowledge is the knowledge that we present to people to make them love their children and keep society a whole. That's the sutra. But if you want to pursue the tantra and you're the right person for it, you have the psyche to do it. You need to find your own tantric teacher and go down the tantric path. The way I say tantra to Westerners today. I say it's about sex and drugs and psychoanalysis. Don't do any of the three unless you really know what you're doing. Right. And don't do them without guidance from somebody who really knows what you're up to. Right. So this is tantric knowledge and the difference between tantra and sutra is an important distinction here. And what we're learning now is that we cannot publish things online if it's tantric. You cannot become a Sufi in an online course.

AUBREY: Right.

ALEXANDER: I work right now with a fantastic new male yoga academy, Bavaria, Germany. They're gonna publish every damn yoga moment you could possibly do. They're doing Nath, which is like hardcore Indian masculine yoga, and we're gonna give it to the men's movement for free in Europe. They can learn all the movements on YouTube for free. Right. That's fantastic. That's Sutra. But the tantric knowledge cannot be published online. Because if you publish the tantric knowledge online, you cause havoc in the world. A shaman will tell you this. When you come to the Amazonas or you come to Iran, the shaman or the Zoltar will tell you, you must never ever tell this to people where in your culture when you go back to it, because if this plant was found in the streets of New York, you would've hell on Earth in your culture. We already have that problem with fentanyl right now in the United States. This is a perfect example of something that should have been locked up. Fentanyl is now killing hundreds of thousands of Americans every year, and it's gonna get, it's gonna get even worse. We're gonna have even more advanced opiates, 50 times more potent Fentanyl out of the markets very soon. And while it's gonna cause enormous havoc, this is the real threat over the long term for humanity we're dealing with when sacred knowledge gets out in the open. You must be prepared to share the sacred knowledge. You must learn it directly from the master. You must be the disciple of the master. And this is what you do when you learn Zen. This is what you do when you learn Sufism. This is what you do when you learn these traditions. This is what you do when you learn Kabbalah. I'm sure Mark Gaffney is a shared friend of ours and he's teaching you and all that, You cannot do Kabbalah. You are also discovering Kabbalah that this is sacred knowledge in the public. Christianity in Islam never allowed this. They just straightforwardly called Tantra sin and banned it. Said it must be locked up because they believe in transparency at all time. That's why Christianity and Islam were perfect feudal religions. They were perfect for the power. They wanted to see everything you did. So you had to be transparent towards power. So power could control you. Christianity and Islam were popular spread around the world 'cause they were perfect feudal religions. I think they've come to the point in time, we have to drop them or totally reform them and go back to genuine spirituality, and that starts with the separation of Tantra and Sutra. I even have a word for it in Protestant Greek. So we can include it in Western culture, it's called Aditonology. The aditon in the Greek language is the inner sanctum of the temple. The aditonology are the specific laws, 

AUBREY: The holy of the hollies

ALEXANDER: Specific rules that are only applicable to the inner sanctum of the temple. That means there are no laws at all

AUBREY: Which would be like the catacombs in Chavin, or it would be, you know, there's certain places where they would do, that's where they would do Vilka, which is a snorted blend of five DMD

ALEXANDER: Oh, you're getting close. 

AUBREY: Yeah. But Sacred.

ALEXANDER: You're getting close. 

AUBREY: The sacred, they called it The Sacred for a reason.

ALEXANDER: Theca Tradition is, it's a perfect sample of something that, yeah, some of it is out, people know about the plant and people are searching for it. So they have enough information to try to find that path. But you gotta go to the Amazonas, or you gotta go to the Highlands rather in Peru to do the Vilka tradition. It's based on mescaline, on top of the Vilka. This is the priest initiation sermon that obviously both you and I have done with Don Howard. Yeah. So, it's not for everybody at all. 

AUBREY: No. And, when you go to do Vilka, he looks at you and is smiling, you know, white Jaguar, you know, Torongo, Blanco face, and he says, are you ready to die? You know, and you have to say, Mm-Hmm. And then if you do, 

ALEXANDER: And you do

AUBREY: Then you take an old knuckle bone from an old shaman and you snort the Vilka. And it's a death process. It's an initiate, it's an initiation. 

ALEXANDER: Well, we're literally not doing it in the studio here today in front of the cameras.

AUBREY: No, of course. 

ALEXANDER: Because you're not. 

AUBREY: It’s not, yeah. It's a sacred knowledge

ALEXANDER: It's sacred knowledge. It's not for everybody to pursue. So don't go down that path. I mean, this is why all Shamanic traditions intention and integration are the two key things. Intention means that you sit down and ask yourself seriously again, you do the Zoroastrian meditation. Is this a constructive thing I'm doing, or am I being in a destructive mode right now? And if you discover anything destructive about you taking that drug, don't do it. Don't have sex with that woman either. You know, if anything destructive is going on, get that outta your head first. That's the intention. And then integration afterwards. How do you integrate that enormously intense experience that goes off in so many different directions? How do you integrate that to again, be even more constructive the next day? That's what integration is. All the shamanic traditions are built on this intention ceremony integration. Every one of them. And that includes the sacred knowledge rituals too. 

AUBREY: So the rise in the proliferation of these new temples in mystery schools, I've also seen as essential. Like, 


AUBREY: We have to, we have to bring tantra back into, 

ALEXANDER: Secularization did not work. It's disastrous. 

AUBREY: And so bringing that all back into culture seems like a huge part of what we're here to do is to find, to go to the sacred places, learn the sacred knowledge. And then it's interesting because some part of me says, well, fuck, just democratize it all. Open source everything. 'cause we don't have time. But I, I hear your point and what you're saying is that there's something 

ALEXANDER: No, that's anarchy and I think spiritual anarchy is not what we wanna give people.

AUBREY: Right. So that may not be actually the most productive way to do it, it may take more time. But building up the temples and the structures and allowing the sacred to remain the sacred. Also, sometimes, a lot of times you can speak the truth into the marketplace and nobody will hear you. Because know they have no words to hear,

ALEXANDER: And they call you 20 years later and find out you wrote a paper 20 years ago to finally understand me. I knew when I went into this race in the 1980s, I knew I was in a marathon. And if I do anything constructively that pays off or the guys that I work with together create something amazing, whatever, if that would be the case, it would probably only be there 50 or a hundred years after I'm dead, and I'm perfectly happy with that. Just being part in building this is what I get all my motivation from. Um, you can never do spirituality as a sprint. It's a marathon. But we need to bring religion for men and spirituality for women, as provocative is saying, into western culture, we could not handle secularization. It ended up, like Nietzsche said it would. It ended up with the death of God, the death of the God. We had it ended up in complete and total nihilism. And that total nihilism is obvious today. It's called the meaning crisis in our circles. If you go to the liminal, what's called the meaning crisis or the meta crisis or whatever, it's obvious we're in the meaning crisis right now. We're in that state of nihilism. Digital has come along and it's an incredible tool for us to accumulate and spread knowledge. To get a basis for what I call the sutra, what we need to create. But on top of that, we also need guys like you and me and a lot of the guys probably following us here, who devote themselves to go down the spiritual path, either married like you did, or as a monk as I chose to do, go down the spiritual mystical path and go deeper in the marathon race to create a religion for the Western culture that works. And there we can start from the Eastern traditions 'cause they're ahead of us. They've gone through this before. They can explain why these things are happening. And they're also developed along trade routes. They were not developed as tyrannies. To control the masses. They were developed by men along the trade routes who went to different spiritual schools along the trade routes to clean their heads from destructive thoughts, to construct them anew, do great new deals in the next town they went into. Right. These spiritual schools are the foundations of the cultural monasteries. The original monasteries were in Persia, they were called kastags. It's a beautiful word. Kastaglita becomes cloister in Latin, et cetera. So it's another word for monastery, but the monasteries are these places we can go and clean our souls and purify ourselves and fix ourselves, and go back into marriages and careers and everything we do in our lives with full motivation and knowing we're doing the right thing.

AUBREY: I have a curiosity. So you said that the holidays in Zoroastrianism are based around the equinoxes. The solstices make perfect sense. These are, this is the solar calendar, right? And then do they have any other astrological significance to potentially the lunar calendar, the way that the moon cycles work? Or way that

ALEXANDER: No, astrology was Babylonian not Persian. That we don't have any recollection that psoriasis was doing astrology. Obviously astrology was a precursor to astronomy. I mean, you lie there and look at the stars at night, Imagine they meant something and you gave them stories. What Zoroastrianism says is that Zoroastrianism in itself is cleansed from that because Zoroastrianism is philosophy as religion practiced by you. It's like you go to spiritual school and you want to clarify your mind, you know? But Sorastinism does not have a problem with the fact that people have all kinds of religious ideas and worship all kinds of gods. Actually, universal human rights were invented by Cyrus the great. The Cyrus Cylinder is the only thing you find when you walk into the United Nations building in New York, because the only symbol of universal human rights tied to peace is a Cyrus Cylinder. It's the guy who doesn't kill the enemy. It's the guy who invites the enemy to become one with him and create an empire together.

AUBREY: Mm-Hmm. Kingdom. 

ALEXANDER: Kingdom. That's the guy that's the origin of universal human rights. The origin of universal human rights is actually, it's not like two opposing views. It's more like two levels of a society. What a society needs is, it needs a leadership that agrees on a philosophy, often also agrees on a language. It's called a court religion or a court philosophy. This idea is Horatianism. It is Horatianism. This is philosophy's religion. It's really hard to fathom, but, and accept, because you have to accept that you die one day and all that. But if you accept this, you can actually rule as a good ruler and then you can allow people on the lower level to do whatever life, because that's a sutra. So Zoroastrianism in itself is a tantric religion. It doesn't have to be the religion of the masses. About three or 4 million followers we know today in the world, probably like six or 7 million in Iran, have left Shia Islam and are eager to join. But we have a few million Zoroastrians in the world today, and we're perfectly happy to be there as salt in the earth or whatever you wanna call it. Judaism is the sister religion, clearly. That love relationship started in Babylon long before we even defined Judaism. And they've silenced each other enormously. And they both have the tantra and the sutra separated. Which Christianity and Islam do not. And this is the argument in the pros and the event is that we need to go back to Zoroastrianism and Judaism precisely because those are the two Western religions that practice the division between Tanon Suta. In Zoroastrianism, you even have your own religion for the priests. A separate religion within the mysticism for the priests only 

AUBREY: One of the things that, I think

ALEXANDER: It's called Zurvanism, and it can never be written down. 

AUBREY: So let me ask you this. One of the criticisms I've had of the way that the Hindu caste system has been created is they're basically fixing people at certain castes and classes. And there's no mobility or evolution, which doesn't make any fucking sense to me. But 

ALEXANDER: You know why it was created though?


ALEXANDER: Is it the most successful peace organization ever? The reason why India has 1.4 billion people there, they had far less wars than anywhere else in the world. And that's the benefit of the caste system. But of course, the caste system was fixing something that should move. Again, I'm against Plato, I'm against Confucius, I'm against the caste system. What was liberating was that Zoroastrianism, Buddhism and Taoism do not acknowledge the caste system. They deny it. Yeah. We're all created equal in the sense that we should all have equal opportunities in life. This is why Buddhism and Zoroastrianism Daoism also became popular along the trade routes because you completely ignore the castes 

AUBREY: Equality of opportunity. Not equality of outcome. 

ALEXANDER: Exactly. The quality of the outcome gained that Rosso. They are the equality of outcome. That's evil. 

AUBREY: That's when a disaster starts.

ALEXANDER: That's where disaster starts. And it started long before Rosso. It started with Mastak. Mastak lived in the sixth century in the Sassanid Empire, and he was this guy who got all the way to the top of the Sa Saud. 

AUBREY: You said?


AUBREY: But in the Sassanid Empire or 

ALEXANDER: Sassanid Empire, 

AUBREY: Yeah. Okay. 

ALEXANDER: The sixth century in the Sassanid Empire, before the plague hit them, and then the Muslims invaded them, but the Mastak was taken down by the Zoroastrian priest who finally killed them because he was teaching that everybody should have equality of outcome in the entire Persian Empire Mastak was the hero of Muhammad. And Mastak was also the hero of Stali. So if you wanna look at a shared heritage, common heritage with Stalinism and Islamism, it's actually Mastak the Mastak character. And the Masac character's of course repeated with Jacobins and Greta Thunberg and Mao Zedong and all this shit today. The proletarians of history love Mastak. They love him because he said that we should give everybody equal amounts of absolutely everything. And that creates absolute madness. It's also against competition. It kills competition. It kills all the best in men. It's a hatred of the phallus itself. 

AUBREY: And the irony of that is that they're saying everybody should be equal. And then in a quiet, demonic voice that if you have any ears at all, you can hear. It goes. Everybody should be equal except for me

ALEXANDER: Exactly. 

AUBREY: Except for me, Stalin. Let's make a fucking million Stalin statues. 

ALEXANDER: The rest of us have to go to school. 

AUBREY: Statues, let's worship me. But everybody's equal, but everybody's equal. Everybody's equal. It's all beautiful, except for me is the demon that's fucking speaking

ALEXANDER: One is more, more equal than the other equals. We call this voice the anodject and watch out. The anodject is the voice inside the lynch mob. And while the lynch mob is running through the streets. Well, culture is definitely the lynch mob. Well, the lynch mob is running down the streets. They all seem to agree that they share a conviction, like if there was a voice among them. All it takes is for one guy to realize that there's an anti-ject within the Lynch mob. There's an agreement that we all know. We all know that Jews are dirty. We all know that. Once one guy realizes that and puts on a uniform and gives voice to the anti-ject, you got fucking Adolf Hitler. And things move very quickly from then on. The lynch mob is humanity at its worst. Sorastrianism, Judaism, Buddhism and Daoism have all together fought against the lynch mob as idea. And they've done their very, very best. Eliminate it. What Sorasta did radically. 3,700 years ago blood sacrifice was banned. This is why across the Persian Empire, you could not sacrifice animals anywhere. And you could certainly not sacrifice humans, which is what you do once you sacrifice the animals. Once you go from the hunter mode to the warrior mode, you start sacrificing humans. He stopped it. He said, there's nobody listening to the blood sacrifice. There's nothing there. Stop it. And instead it said, just keep the fire itself. So the sacrificial fire burns with wood, and that is the Zoroastrian fire temple. So the fire temple replaced blood sacrifice. It was one way of getting rid of the lynch mob. 'cause the lynch mob runs down the street to find its victim. And then. Sacrifice the victim. And that's blood sacrifice. 

AUBREY: And also its psychologically, it's the scapegoat mentality, which is like 

ALEXANDER: Exactly, 

AUBREY: We need to purify ourselves and in order to purify ourselves, let's project all of our evil onto the scapegoat. Which could be an actual goat. Or it could be a class of people. It could be the Jews, it could be whoever else it might be, it could be anybody. 

ALEXANDER: It could be anybody. 

AUBREY: You scapegoat these people and then 

ALEXANDER: Usually an odd person 

AUBREY: At that point. At that point it gives you all of the rights to sacrifice them. In whatever way you wanna sacrifice. 

ALEXANDER: And in this way, René Chérard is absolutely right. He's the last major Christian thinker I think we have in West Catholic. He died a few years ago. Peter Thiel's favorite. You know, rené Chirard says that getting rid of Christianity was a terrible idea because the secularized society we get after Christianity is gone will bring back the lynch mob and blood sacrifice. And that's exactly what we see in the media today. That's exactly what we see in academia today. That's exactly what cancel culture is. These forces are incredibly evil. Right. And the fact that you can have the boss of the University of Pennsylvania sit in Congress and say she's perfectly okay. There are students who are hating Jews in 2023 means that this is what happens in a secular America. Don't get rid of Christianity too quickly. Rather understand that secularization is a necessary move before you actually pursue an honest spirituality that you can believe in. But once you go over to the Eastern religions, you will find your home. But that journey out of Christianity, if you go too quickly like we did in Scandinavia, Christianity is dead and over. We created, we invented woke. There's no coincidence where the tomb comes from. Sweden. I'm not proud of it, but it's the honest thing that happened. And I'm fighting against it now with Eastern spirituality. 

AUBREY: It seems to me that you see these kinds of heroic figures arise. And I look at Elon Musk and I say, uh-Huh? That's Ashavan. You know, that's someone who's willing to stand for

ALEXANDER:  It's called Messiah in Hebrew religion. 

AUBREY: Messiah. 

ALEXANDER: It's called Saushiant in Persian. So the original term is Saushiant. The Saushiant is somebody who personifies what saves us from going down. So it's a guy or a function, rather. The steps into culture. And culture is in decline and says, we can be saved from the decline. We still have the time to do it. Uh, I'd say Elon Musk perfectly does it as the chief, because he's an engineer, right? Whenever he steps into priest mode, he's terrible at it. The way you describe it is, I said, I'm sorry, Elon Musk is terrible at social. He's terrible at social. He should, and Twitter is a loss-making thing for him, although he can speak freely, but you know, when it comes to, you know, uh, SpaceX and test up he rocks. So he needs a priest, I think to accompany him in being the chief and he would be a much better team. He's a bit lonely doing the chief thing. He's a bit of a sort of industrial tyrant at the moment. If there would be a team around the airline it would be absolutely awesome. I think Peter Thielis, the guy who realizes this is trying to look for both and maybe he's actually geared war too much priest mode than chief mode. I don't know, I dunno these guys yet, but, you know, they are the heroes of our time because they build big tech and big tech is killing old industry. We need guys now to step in and do the same revolution with politics and we need guys to step in and do the same revolution with academia. Personally, I think academia is over. I think Harvard and Stanford will even be closed within 10 years. Certainly Bowling Green goes out the door. Now. I think kids today are arriving at this. I work with some fantastic people in America called the Fifteen-Seventeen Fund. They've taken in billions of dollars to spend on taking kids out of college and giving them money to start companies. These are the kind of ideas I love in America at the moment. More entrepreneurship. More competition. More of the things that you are not allowed. There should be more of that in America. And, um. So these are the good things happening at the moment. But we have to look at the chief and the, and the priest aspect. And the priest aspect, what you and I stand for in the sense that we said we also have to become spiritual men, and not only entrepreneurial and compete, you know, in the marketplace with new products and things, but we also have to be these guys who go the spiritual path. 

AUBREY: Yeah. That's part of what's being balanced.


ALEXANDER: It’s the warrior. 

ALEXANDER: I think Ilona is, I don't think it's just that he doesn't have that team around him yet. 

AUBREY: He doesn't have that access,

ALEXANDER: and that's why he did a fuck up when he took over Twitter. He should have had a priestly team with him before he did that, because, well, social media

AUBREY: I'm pretty happy with what he did with 

ALEXANDER: I'm still happy with it. I think it was great. I love, I think, I mean,

AUBREY: At least people, at least people can share their ideas. Free them

ALEXANDER: I think does, but if you look at the numbers, it doesn't look very good. Maybe it'll be a turnaround. Eventually. 

AUBREY: I think it will. 

ALEXANDER: Or he passes it on to somebody who's more responsible to take on the priestly role. He is the perfect chief. He's kingly. He has a king quality. And that's what great entrepreneurs have. And we love them

AUBREY: For it. 


AUBREY: This is awesome, man. 

ALEXANDER: Yeah, it's awesome. It's awesome being here in Austin, Texas. Finally, Corona is over. I can travel again. I travel around the world with my team. I have a wonderful time. I love my monks. Uh, I just lived the happiest lives ever and you look good. 

AUBREY: Thank you, man. You look good too.

ALEXANDER: You look really good. It's been a pleasure being here. 

AUBREY: Yeah, it's been an absolute pleasure as well. Yes. Uh, I ordered your book, but I didn't get it quite yet, so I haven't read it, but I'm looking process. I'm a process and event. 

ALEXANDER: We'll see if I have a call. The book is called Process and Event. I don't do sales pictures, but it's a book out there. And if you're a great fan of me, you can also try to contact me on social media. I actually happily give the book to people who are serious students. Who are serious policy students. I like to do that, but it's out there. You can find it on Amazon in America, Process and Event by Barden Sodeqvistin. It's our major metaphysical statement. We've done metaphysics properly from the very bottom up, and we love being philosophers. 

AUBREY: Yeah, well, it's beautiful to know you brother. Let's go.


AUBREY: Let's go. 


AUBREY: Let's go. We love you guys. Thanks for tuning into this video. Make sure you hit subscribe. Follow me at Aubrey Marcus. Check out the Aubrey Marcus podcast available everywhere, and leave a comment. Let me know if this video resonated or what else you would like to hear from me in the future.

Thank you so much.