Mikki Willis is an award-winning filmmaker, who is both greatly respected and viciously vilified in the mainstream media. But I know Mikki and I know his beautiful heart, and it pours through the work that he creates. His latest documentary, The Great Awakening, was one of the most powerful films I’ve seen this year. It tells a story about the hidden agendas and movements lurking beneath the surface of our society, with conclusions that will shock and inspire you.
In this episode, we explore the seemingly diabolical handshake between both Empire Capitalism and Empire Communism, our collective amnesia through the myth of the happy serf, the foundations of conscious parenthood, and what it means to be all in for all life through the lens of the Hero’s Journey. As you take in this podcast and open your minds to the darkness in the world, we invite you to anchor the vision of the ultimate triumph that is coming for all humanity as we transition toward the more beautiful world our hearts know is possible.
Mikki, it's good to see you, brother.
MIKKI: It's good to see you too, Aubrey.
AUBREY: Yeah, these are some of the most complex and also beautiful times that I think we could be involved in. Because what does someone with a desire, which we all have, to stand for something that's meaningful? What would we want more than an opportunity to shift the course of humanity in some way, to participate in a greater movement for the liberation of our people from forces that have been, since beginningless time really, trying to look to control and use force and gain power in this kind of totalitarian pyramid where there's one ego at the top of everything, controlling everything beneath it, and stand for the other side, which is a flourishing of the individuality and sovereignty of all beings to work, as you said, incredibly in your film, great awakening through symbiosis, just like a rainforest works. How does a rainforest work? Is there the rainforest oligarchs that tell the tell the butterflies to go to this plan and the frogs to eat these mosquitoes and this... No, it works naturally, because there's a force called God. The divine mystery, the universe, source, whatever you want to say.
There's a force that's driving us towards symbiosis naturally, but if we lose contact with that force, then the ego puts itself superimposed in that position of, I know better than all you idiots, I know better than you frogs, I know better than you bats, I know better than you tapers, I'm going to tell you exactly what you can and can't do. Then it all fucking falls apart. Because there's a divine intelligence that's greater than any intelligence, greater than fucking Klaus Schwab, and whoever else is thinking that they're the greatest mind and they're going to solve this. No, you're not, bitch. Listen. Listen to the intelligence that's moving in you, as you, and through you if you allow yourself to connect to it. That's really what I left your film with was this deep feeling of, man, we have to get back to both a spiritual understanding, understand the philosophy of the republic that the United States was founded as, and then our own individual responsibility. So it's all the way from that superstructure of the divine moving through us, and moving through the world to create natural symbiosis, to the infrastructure level of our government. Then the social structure level of how we support families and communities and how we build our own natural symbiosis instead of isolation leading to this solipsistic, it's all about me, and I got to figure that all out. No, we're going to figure this out together. Together, we're going to make it through.
MIKKI: Open with a bang. I love it.
AUBREY: Yeah, bro. So, one of the things that I had not fully comprehended was, that actually, communism... I was like, why are we worried about fighting communism? That was in the past. What the fuck were we doing in Vietnam anyways? I still don't say that that's a justification for the Vietnam War or anything like that, but I actually understood a spark of what maybe some people were thinking, was actually, this is a virus, and this virus which leads to totalitarianism, which leads to the depolarization, which leads to people who are no longer free, is actually a virus that needs to be fought. But now, it's not on the battlefield, it's in the mind. But the link between this "communist" agenda, I was like, Nah, really, come on, we're over that. The Cold War ended. But we're kind of not over that.
MIKKI: Well, that's exactly the awakening I had when I was on the road with Bernie Sanders in 2016. As I open the film with my experience there, and being a full-fledged, far left Bernie bro, and being 100% all in. So much that I donated almost a year of my life to help build his grassroots campaign with media. It wasn't until I was on the road, and asking tough questions of all of his entourage and personnel, that I started to realize that either they didn't really know what they were fighting for, or they did, and they were hiding something. And as I started to dig deeper, and start to look around and recognize that there are a lot of symbiology that I couldn't understand. Why there were Che Guevara shirts, and sickle and hammer stickers on laptops and water bottles and linen shirts, and I thought it was just young people trying to be edgy. Then I started to ask, what is this about? What is this attraction to linen? Then they started to really open up, to tell me the thing I didn't want to hear.
Because at the time, I didn't know a whole lot about socialism, but having been raised by a single mom on welfare, the idea of helping people at the bottom, of making sure that no one's left behind was like, that's all I needed to hear. But then these young people explained to me that, Marx always said that socialism is just a stepping stone towards communism. And I said, "That's what you want?" And they said, "Oh, yeah." And then they would go out of their way to convince me that it was growing, and that it was the only model that would save America, and that's the only thing that would stop the Empire and the greed and capitalism, and all the stuff that they thought was at the root of the problem. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that they were fighting for that. And I would ask them questions like, when has that actually served the people that really work? Can you give me an example of that? They would say, no, there really isn't one because it hasn't been fully attempted the way that Bernie is going to do it, and we're going to do it. It's going to be a different communism.
And, I had to dig into, what do you think communism is? Ultimately, what is that? And you nailed it here in your opening monologue. Ultimately, it's when the state owns and controls everything. So then I would say to them, I would ask tough questions like, do you trust the federal government? All of them are disenfranchised young people that would say, no. And I'd say, so how this transfer of wealth you're talking about, this taking from the rich to help the people at the bottom, how will that take place? And they would say through taxation. I say, well, who's collecting the taxes? And they say, the government. I said, "Do you like how the government spends your tax money now?" "No, I think it's theft." Do you understand there's a disconnect here, between what you're saying, what you realize, what you see. And you want to give the federal government more of our wages. Taxation is one of the major ways that they can control us. They can limit you, they don't want guys like you, they don't want guys like Elon Musk, they don't want guys like Joe Rogan, people that have worked their asses off to amass enough wealth that they can go buy Twitter, and reopen the public square to the people. They don't want people to do that. They want everyone to be... When they talk about equality, they do want equality. They want everyone at the bottom. Equally at the bottom.
AUBREY: Yeah, equality of outcome and not opportunity. It has never really worked. Now, some people could argue, well, China is actually doing a good job in the world. In some ways, they are being effective as an empire. They're conquering by buying. But if you really listen to someone like Lily Fang, you really go into the history. 80 million people killed by Mao in horrible ways. People imprisoned at the drop of a hat. I look at these like 15-minute cities that are all the rage in a certain sector of what the future, this great reset, what this new world looks like. And it's like, that's a really convenient way to be able to lock and sequester people away, and do what they did in Shanghai during COVID, which is just closed the roads, closed gates, lock everybody in this little kind of internment camp, and be able to isolate and sequester everybody in these different places.
And, you start to wonder and question, what is the real agenda behind all this? It really looks to this idea of collectivist, extreme collectivist society, which is based on a pyramid. And this pyramid always has somebody at the top. It always does. It doesn't matter. This is never an equal kind of playing field. This is always a pyramid. Everywhere you look. There's the supreme leader who ends up getting himself worshipped like a god, usually in some capacity or another. You offer devotionals and do this whole thing. And then the pyramid starts with somebody at the top, and then it moves into that oligarch level and then it moves... It's just a structured hierarchy with a few people at the top and everybody leveled and flattened out at the bottom with no upward movement, no mobility at all. That is not the fucking world we want to live in.
MIKKI: No. You mentioned China. It's important to look at that really, as a case study, which is why I spent so much real estate in "The Great Awakening" delving into China and what's going on there. And I've interviewed... In the version that you just saw last night, too, I actually needed to cut the film down. We had some Uyghurs that had been completely persecuted and escaped--
AUBREY: What are Uyghurs?
MIKKI: It's a spiritual organization within China that people started to find their own freedom. And the Communist Party said, no, we're not going to have that. It's millions of people strong. It has its own issues too. But ultimately, it was cultivating kind of a Tai Chi physical practice.
AUBREY: Like the Falun Gong?
MIKKI: Yeah, very... Well, yeah, Falun Gong is really the Tai Chi practice, but the Uyghurs have their own--
AUBREY: Which was also persecuted too, which is fucking crazy. Because this is like the foundation of Chinese spiritual philosophy. When we look at some of the great contributions of Chinese culture, it is Tai Chi, it is Falun Gong, it is Gong Fu, it is like these traditions that were so fucking beautiful.
MIKKI: Yeah, but it was creating too much sovereignty for the people.
AUBREY: Right, because you're sourcing power from the Divine, from the field. What is Chi if it's not the universal animating lifeforce of the whole fucking cosmos.
MIKKI: Yeah, so that became a big threat to the Communist Party. So, these people have been persecuted, tortured, imprisoned, everything you can imagine. And I still get people today that will say, it's really good in China, and I know people who live there who say it's really good. You can always find in any culture where there is master and slave, you can always find happy slaves. Because these are people who've been so beat down, and they've lost the sense of themselves so much that they feel taken care of by master. So they will report that they are happy because all they have to do is wake up, go work for master, and then have their little breadcrumbs, and then they go back and do it again the next day. And for them, that's a life. But there's a lot of us, the vast majority of us that say, that's not the life I choose. I don't want to live in an open air prison just because everything's given to us. We need to be more less surveyed, less reliant upon technologies, less reliant upon... I mean, totally sovereign, I would say from any kind of government support, financial government support. We need to find a way to be completely sovereign in the way that we earn our living.
That is one of the upsides to this entire situation, Aubrey, is that I love that you look at this perspective as one of the most challenging and wonderful times that we've experienced here on this planet together, because I see it the same way. It's horrific, it's scary. We are flirting with nuclear war right now, we are kicking the hornet's nest of adversaries that would love nothing more than to end the United States. We have an insane administration right now, who is tempting them to do just that. We have all these things that are being pressed upon us. Our media's forcing us to look away from what the traitors within our own nation are doing behind our backs right now. We're constantly shown some natural disasters, some war over here, some major celebrity scandal or something that's a constant game of look over there, so that you can't see what we're actually doing to your homeland.
So right now, as we all are so obsessed over Israel and Hamas and all the stuff that's going on, it all matters. But here we are in our burning house, gossiping about the neighbor's house burning across the street. When are we going to take care of ourselves? That's one of the main issues is that we have lost the focus on how important it is for us to... Real change, as I say, in "The Great Awakening" happens from within. We're trying to move all the chess pieces out there instead of really doing the inner work, and asking ourselves, who are they really? People ask me this question sometimes, because I'll use the word they, and they'll say, "Who are they?" I say, "Well, I think I can name the names that are nameable. But the real they is us."
AUBREY: Yeah, it's inside us. Empire lives in all of us. Also, the susceptibility to Empire, which is our compassion. We do care, we do want everybody to be taken care of, we do want everybody to have a bed, and a home. We don't like seeing people homeless on the streets. It's probably what drew you to Bernie's campaign in the first place. You're like, I care about all people, I'm all in for all life, I want to help everybody. That's the thing that actually I think these government agencies don't get is actually, instead of weaponizing compassion to gain control, trust compassion. That we will naturally be compassionate and we'll want to set up systems that create a safety net. Voluntary philanthropy will emerge when people are suffering, and we consider them our neighbors. And we're like, wow, these people are suffering, let's donate to these food banks and these other homes to keep people like a little safer. Let's create systems. It's not saying, oh, well, you're out of luck, fuck you, starve to death. We're going to let you starve. No, we're going to want to help. We just will. We're naturally wired that way. But instead, they're weaponizing our compassion, which is something that Zubi said which I thought was great. Weaponizing our compassion to actually get us motivated for daddy government to take control of us, which doesn't trust that people will take care of each other.
MIKKI: Yeah, that's right. Zubi helped me change a phrase that I had been using for a number of years, I was saying weaponized morality, which is still is morality, too. But when he said compassion, I said, yeah, that's even closer to how they got me. There's two classes that are most susceptible to these agendas. Through the COVID experience, I had a lot of people that were debating with me, particularly when "Plandemic" came out, because it was so really on. Right after the pandemic was announced. And, here we come out of the gate saying this is all something else. I had a lot of people, they would get stuck at not understanding how does this system work? Because if you're telling me that all these doctors and people are in on some big nefarious plot, then you lost me. And I said, No, that's not what I'm telling you. The vast majority of them have no idea what they're actually in service to. Just like me when I was on the road with Bernie, I swore that...
When I found out that a lot of the protests and things that I've done through the years as an activist, and I was a radical environmental activist. I have a video of me on the front line doing undercover stuff with Jane Fonda, closing down banks and pipelines. When I started to find out that George Soros was funding our protest, it spun me out because I thought, wait a minute, what? Why is he funding? I thought we were working against him, why would he be funding our movement? What's happening here? Because all they want is discord. All they want is conflict and division. So when I realized, I started to talk with people after "Plandemic" they would say, my brother is the smartest guy on the planet, man and he is so taken by this narrative.
AUBREY: I mean, we all have that, whether it's a brother in flesh, or whether it's just a brother that we're like, "Whoa, bro, really? You're going to come over for lunch, and we have to sit outside and be six feet away?" Damn.
MIKKI: And these are highly intelligent people, right? So that was always kind of a hard thing to figure out for a lot of people. It was Dr. Mark McDonald, who's also in "The Great Awakening" that really helped me put the pieces together. He's a psychiatrist. When we had our very long, incredible interview, he's just a brilliant man, it really clicked for me because I realized, okay, there are two classes that they attack. That is the deeply caring, and the highly educated. The highly educated are vulnerable, because they've spent most of their lives in some form of government or pharma-funded education. And they have been programmed to listen to professor, to listen to authority figures. They know better. They are the science. So they've kind of surrendered their own sovereignty and critical thinking ability.
Then you have the category that I think I would fall under which is sometimes over emotionally attached to things, so that I would react emotionally. I would hear this horrible thing happened and, and let's just go. The warrior in me, the protector in me will just charge instead of doing what I do now, which is, let me observe the situation, let me be the witness of the situation, let me look at all the intricate details of the situation to understand. Let me now explore the opposite side of it to find out, which is what I'm in the middle of right now with the Israel and Palestine situation. It's really digging into both sides to understand something that I don't even feel right to comment about until I really understand the dynamics of all of it. I think that's one of the issues is, people are so quick to lend their opinions to things which then become the seeds of a narrative that we find out later had nothing to do with reality.
AUBREY: And it's an orienting identity narrative, which is... One of the confusing elements of this is there's, if you're trying to spot, let's just call this force empire. Empire wants totalitarian control, Empire wants a pyramid. Well, there was a spiritual purpose originally for the pyramids, but why Ramses claimed and wanted to have a pyramid, because he wants to sit on the top. He wants to be Pharaoh, there's a cult of the pharaoh. Even the Roman emperors they had cults that would follow and worship, and libate and serve the God, the deification, which is what the ego wants. The ego says there is no God, I am God. And then like Yeshua would say, yeah, you are God, and so is everybody else. So, it's the ego versus like the true understanding of our interconnectedness. But what is interesting is, is that force of Empire that wants total control, it works through something like communism, which is very clear. It's Mao or it's Jinping, or whoever is at the top.
But then it also works through these corporate forces that want to just consume and extract and get the biggest profits possible. It's interesting to see because one is a capitalist system, just run as a capitalist system did, without enough controls, they've been able to capture a lot of government agencies. But it's odd because you see capitalism on one side creating this corporatocracy, where all big pharma can dictate the health policies in the nation and clearly go in and manipulate people's minds and thoughts, as we saw with the pandemic. I'm just releasing today, when this releases, my own film, "Unsafe and Ineffective" which shows that something that Lenin said. And again, the attribution to these quotes is always something that you can look at. Did he fucking say this or not? But it's attributed to him. A lie told often enough becomes the truth. And there was a lie, safe and effective, that was told often enough that people believed it was true. Now there's so much data that shows no, not quite safe, and not quite as effective as they claimed it was. Clearly.
But it's odd because we're seeing Empire everywhere. And I think this goes back to the fact that empire lives within us. There's Empire forces in unchecked capitalism, and there's Empire forces in rampant communism. Somehow there's this kind of crazy handshake that's happening where the capitalists, big capitalist forces, these corporate forces are becoming the oligarchs that are all serving a greater oligarch, a greater emperor. So, they're creating a kind of pyramid. That's the way that it's kind of working together. It's interesting, but for me, what's the most helpful is just say, look, it's Empire versus what I would call the kingdom. And that's from like the kingdom of heaven. Behold, I make all things new. Also, there is going to be some structure. Ultimately, my opinion is, we're going to need some form of One World collaborative government at some point. We all know this.
We watch a movie like "Independence Day" everybody comes together. There is an external threat challenging our whole planet. Well, it's probably not going to be aliens, I don't think they're going to come attack us. I think they're probably more sophisticated than that. But you imagine that there's a meteor coming, or there's some existential threat, and we're right there. We're right there towards this Carrington event level of something where we are going to need actual genuine global cooperation and collaboration. But it's got to be run in a different way. There's an organizing structure called Holacracy, which is imagine like King Arthur's table, the Knights of the Round Table, right? Where the king said, I am equal to all of you, I'm not going to sit on the throne. Here's the roundtable. The roundtable could be as big as possible, could be the United Nations if the United Nations wasn't captured and corrupt also by all the forces. And then each of them has their own round table in their own country. Those round tables fractured off, fractured off. Then somebody from an underneath table always gets a seat at the table above. So there's an organizing structure that I think does need to emerge at some point, which is to kind of steelman this argument for Empire. We do need some form of global coordination in case of some cataclysmic event, which is clearly happened in our history.
You look at any of Graham Hancock's work, and the meteor that melted the Greenland ice sheets and the rising of the waters. Yeah, we're going to want to be kind of coordinated, if that shit goes down. We're going to want to be kind of coordinated, but it's got to be structured in a different way. It's got to come from the appreciation and recognition of people's sovereignty, and the base unit of that, which is family. Then the family expands to community, and the community expands to county, and the county expands to state, and the state expands the nation, and the nation expands to the United Nations, and the United Nations expands to a healthy roundtable where there's some coordination. So, I do see, all right, this one-world government agenda, it's not completely crazy. They're just doing it the absolute wrong fucking way because they're guided by Empire, rather than Camelot kingdom mentality.
MIKKI: Well, I will say that I think, for many years, I even signed off on thinking we need to open borders, we need to just unify with all of the other nations and start to work together. Instead of having these separate teams, can we just join as one team, would be the metaphor that I would use As I've learned more, I'm on the opposite side of that now. I feel we need to go in the opposite direction. Total sovereignty of the individual, total sovereignty of every single state within the United States, their ability for us to choose. If we don't want abortion here, and they want it there, great. Well then move there if that's important to you. Let us choose what we choose as the people for the territories in which we live.
AUBREY: I agree. I mean, I just want to be clear. I agree with that completely and in my model, so the roundtable... Each roundtable to have the maximum authority possible. Your fucking self is the first roundtable, you are Arthur of your own fucking table. Do whatever you want with the sovereignty of your consciousness. How dare the government say you can't smoke weed or eat mushrooms? Fuck you. Have the sovereignty of your own body in your own fucking consciousness, first roundtable. Second, your family. Don't you dare fuck with my family. Let me organize my family. All right, my community, we want to go and create our own water and our... Don't you dare. How dare you fuck with that? But let's elect people to another level that says, okay, what about the state? What are we going to do with the state? What are we going to do with interstate commerce? What are we going to do with our Public Works policies? Which roads do we actually need? Which bridges do we actually need? So, state government, county government, local government, all the way up.
Then Alright, states, alright, shit, we're in a country. So what's our country government look like? It's not saying that we collapse all of that. It's roundtables all the way up and all the way down. But sovereignty at every level, at every piece. So, it's built fundamentally in the structure, to have sovereignty at every piece, but also some way in which, when we do need to make larger decisions, there's a mechanism for that.
MIKKI: I think if the collective mental health of humanity were in better shape, that structure would be amazing. But the fact that we have a very sick society, with people who are in places of great power, and they're operating through the filter of trauma. At the root of literally everything that's going on, I have come back to this common denominator, which is these people. I've done a lot of study on what are the archetypes of these characters? What makes Bill Gates want to have total control? What makes Klaus Schwab do what he doing? George Soros, and all these characters, what is this about them? When you start to study, who they were, how they were raised, particularly what kind of fathers they had or didn't have, you start to understand there's a commonality between these characters. And in some ways, it's revenge of the nerds. These are people who got shut out of society, didn't get laid in college, didn't have all the opportunities that other guys had. And so they went to amass a bunch of wealth and stuff, and when they discovered now in their 50s and 60s that still didn't fulfill their emptiness inside, they're pissed off. So now there's an opportunity to get revenge on the people to--
AUBREY: Well, they're pure ego, because if they'd done a Bufo ceremony, followed by a few Ayahuasca, followed by a lot of time in the sex temples, which of course, Empire's destroyed through the religious context, right? A place where they could go and bath in Eros, and connect to the Divine, they would be far different people. They would be looking to build this other system and create ways in which everybody from the bottom up had access to this field. It's the opposite of communism, which is there is no God. It'd be like, no, no, there is. I don't care what name you call it. But here are the ways you can find it, through breathwork, through Qigong, through psychedelic medicine, through ecstatic prayer, through all of these things. They would have a different idea about how to build it. So you're right, it's a fucking consciousness problem.
MIKKI: That's right. Years ago, I've been studying anthropology and ontology since I was a kid, just fascinated by people, and really fascinated because I love people. I think that's something too, that is dwindling out there that we need to revive our appreciation for being human. Just being curious about each other again, and wanting to explore people that are different from us. We're all being wired that when someone's different, they have different ideologies, they're the enemy. Instead of what an incredible opportunity to learn about this person and perhaps about myself. So, it's been years of just... Which is why I even became a storyteller and a filmmaker. I was never even a big fan of documentaries. But it led me here because it allowed me to sit with people, like we're doing now, for hours and to talk with very interesting people. People far smarter than me, far more accomplished, or people that have been through horrific situations, and to really find out what is at the root of this thing we call human? I've come out of that experience after doing this for 30 years, I've come out of that experience with understanding that when someone is raised properly, not over coddled, not over complimented, but really shown what life is. I'm raising my boys right now. I have two extraordinary boys, and nine and 12 years old--
AUBREY: You can feel it emanating off of them.
MIKKI: Thank you.
AUBREY: It's been a real consistent effort to bring them into everything that I've learned the hard way. I give them a chance to learn the way they choose to learn. I always tell them, you can learn this through dad, the easy way. Or if you need to go out and experience the hard way, I respect that. You might need to do that. I'm not going to rob you from the experience of going out and feeling what pain feels like, and what suffering feels like, and what heartbreak feels like. You might need to experience that firsthand. I'm not going to shield you and protect you from all the experiences that life has to offer. Because at the end of the day, ultimately, it is really about what we're experiencing in our day to day lives. How do we optimize that? How do we how do we create a foundation for other people to recognize that they actually do have the ability to create the life that they choose? Because I think we've all been lulled into this follower mentality for so long that there's some--
MIKKI: And so sedated.
AUBREY: So sedated, so cynical, so resigned. And that's what creates this slave mentality that you'd reach a point where you just go, look, it's too hard on my own. So if the government wants to come in and... I saw this happening during COVID. A lot of people that I interviewed that would just start praising the fact they got a few $1,000 a month, and they got to play video games all month. They're like, this COVID thing, man, I don't want it to end, that's kind of cool. I'd say be very, very careful. That's the drug dealer on the corner saying first one's free.
MIKKI: It's bread and circus.
AUBREY: Yeah, exactly. "It feels good, I like this, give me a little more." Okay, well, this one you have to pay for. Not much, though. Until you're addicted, then it's like the price goes up, and the drug wears out. And you have to do a more deadly drug, a more deadly drug until you're finally destroyed. That's how the system works. It wants everyone dependent, desperate and dependent. And when people are desperate and dependent, then they will look to the authority figure to lead them. They will be happy when someone comes along and says you do nothing except for the work I tell you to do, and I'll give you just enough to survive. There are people that are actually happy with that, because they don't know what they're capable of. They have forgotten. And that's why I say at the end of "The Great Awakening" we have one major thing to do, that I see in my opinion. And that is to remember.
There's a collective amnesia that's very dangerous, that we're all infected by. That's forgetting what we knew as infants, what we knew as toddlers. There's a reason that babies often look into the eyes of an adult and have that connected moment where they start kicking their legs, and they get excited, because they recognize the thing that becomes a T-shirt slogan for us later, which is we're all one, and we talk this game, but we don't treat each other like we're all one. We turn on each other really quick. We destroy each other, if someone becomes a threat. We don't treat each other like we're all cells in the same organism fighting for life and celebrating life. But as children, we knew that, and we knew that everything was possible. We knew that I came here not just to be a maintenance worker of a bunch of crap that I don't need, but I came here to participate in this experience we call life and to bring all of me. And, I play a very vital role in this experience. My hero's journey is finding what that role is, and crystallizing it into something useful, so that this experience evolves, and the next people who could take on that baton, are that much more advanced.
That's my job here. And instead, what we just do is we'll just sit back and resign, let somebody else take care of us. We lose that through just the repetition. You mentioned say it enough and it becomes true. It's unfortunately accurate, because we've heard for so long that we are a failed experiment, that we are a cancer on this planet, that we are a parasite. And you have people of the movement that I escaped from that cult. That was a common narrative was just how horrible we are. We would be better, this planet would be better off without us. That's deadly.
AUBREY: That's where you get into this transhumanist movement, which is we're going to plant things in people's brains, we're going to control them all, humans are ultimately corrupt parasites, the problem. It's funny because they're also what you mentioned is, people imagine that they're just like twiddling their fingers, like mwah-ha-ha-ha, we're going to do this. But they're actually infected by the virus themselves. Because they can't connect to the field of goodness, the field of value, the field of God, whatever you want to say, they can't connect to the actual field. They are actually projecting something that's coming from within them which is a deep self-loathing. This feeling that they cannot be loved, they are not worthy of love. It's like a manipulative, controlling relationship. Just bring it back down to the simple roots. In a manipulative, controlling, emotionally abusive relationship, what does one partner do? They isolate their partner from all their friends. It's a classic manipulative relationship behavior.
You start to isolate the person from their family, from their friends. Or a cult. What does every fucking cult, real cult do? They start to say, don't talk to your friends, don't talk to your family. We're the only people you can talk to. And there's somebody at the top, who is the supreme leader. So cults are like little mini communist experiments, where it's like, don't trust anybody else, no one can be trusted only these people can be trusted. And then people have this sense of, I'm belonging, I belong to something else. But they define themselves as belonging by putting somebody else in the outside of the circle, and creating this pseudo intimacy, like there's nobody else out there. But it's all coercive, manipulative behavior, which comes from the fact of, you don't need to do that. You don't need to tell people to stop hanging out with their friends or seeing their family if you know that you're worthy of love. Yeah, fucking go for it. Go on that girl's trip. Go hang at this fucking... Yeah, great, fantastic.
Because you know that you're ultimately irresistibly worthy of love, and someone's going to love you. And if that person doesn't love you, oh, well. No worries, you'll find someone that does. And I think these leaders have just played this out to such a level where they don't feel that they're worthy of love, that they have to say, well, the only way someone's going to love me is if I control them. The only way they'll stay with me is if I control them. So this mentality, you can see it fractal, all the way from the top, down to the bottom.
MIKKI: We are at war. The people on this planet are at war. For decades, we have been... There's an assault on our nature. You can say an assault on nature itself, absolutely. But really an assault on our nature. There's a reason for that. You spoke into this, at the very beginning of this podcast, when you said that there is nothing that we will ever do or create that is more brilliant than nature itself. You said something along those lines. That is incredibly accurate. There's nothing that we will create that will surpass... Now we can look at AI and go, "It's smarter than us." I'm not talking about surpassing our intellect. I'm talking about the system that we are part of. We will emulate it through biomimicry hopefully more and more. Biomimicry is a very, very important tool for us to start looking at more instead of us trying to recreate our own nature and disrupt our nature to really look at it, how does it work? How do the seasons work? How do the insects and the animals and how--
AUBREY: How does the mycelial network connect the forest together? Paul Stamets' work, it's unbelievable.
MIKKI: Brilliant, and when you understand that we are just as brilliant of a system, the forest within us and what connects us, we can understand. We can look at our technologies, and have a whole theory around technologies that we create. I actually believe that we don't invent anything. We are given visions of a map that ultimately helps us better understand ourselves, and then we create it in the physical world, and we call it an invention. But it's an out picturing of us trying to understand ourselves. So I'll tell you what I mean by that. So when we first created this thing called a PC, personal computer, it didn't do much. It was a paperweight. We could maybe put a new floppy disk in, and make it do a little bit more, but it was a word processor.
AUBREY: It could play Frogger.
MIKKI: Which was very important, and Pac Man, which was very useful for a generation. But what happened was, for me, I see that as us trying to take this little thing we call brain, mind, and put it out on a table as a prototype like an architect might do and look at it and go, let me try to understand how this operates. So, essentially, it could only do what the factory installed on it. Unless you put a little bit more... Like you read a book. That's putting a floppy disk in, and the word processor learns a little bit more. Then we create this thing called the World Wide Web, the internet. We plug that little useless computer in, and it becomes a supercomputer. Access to Infinite Intelligence. I believe that that is us trying to understand what the next possible evolution for us is, is us plugging... You've mentioned psychedelics, there's many ways that we've reached these through... Grateful forever for the work that I did. I don't do psychedelic work any longer, but I spent seven and a half years all over the world traveling with a shaman and doing very intense Ayahuasca ceremonies, and watching people all over the world no matter what culture they were from, their age, their intellect level, having a unified experience. If we're on the top of the Andes deep in the jungle, or on a skyscraper in New York City, there is a very unified experience.
That's why I've come to this conclusion that it's about remembering because what people would do was remember. You've seen it. I've never seen somebody come out of a truly well held psychedelic ceremony, and say, I just learned that I'm disconnected from everything. No one says that. They say, I just learned that how divine my life has unfolded. I'm not too old, I'm not too fat, too short. All these things that I was holding in my mind, the perception of myself, none of it's real. And, I'm connected to you the same way our cell phones are energetically connected. I can dial up your frequency and we can have a communication. Or I can dial you out and ignore you. So all these inventions coming back to that full circle, I feel that these are ways for us to look at what our natural systems are capable of doing that we don't do enough of. We communicate through our caricatures, through our facades, through the identity of Aubrey and the identity of Mikki. Instead of meeting at that place where we recognize the brotherhood, how we're identical twins in humanity in so many ways. And that we are literally cells in the body of God.
The moment we start to war with each other, then we have disease, just like it happens with the cells in our body. If we can come back to that remembrance, that simple yet profound remembrance and live our lives, let everything we do be informed by that, and never forget. So I love that moment in the end of "The Great Awakening" when, David Martin comes in and talks about standing with bare feet on the ground, and then remembering that moment of being totally human, and never forgetting again. If we can remember, if we can allow these challenges that are coming up for us right now, and it's scary for a lot of people, especially people who have children. I have another 45 years left on this planet. But my children have 80. And what's their future going to be like? And, all the future for all the children out there? Particularly the ones that are being so damaged by these divisive medias that they have been... They hate themselves, they hate their country, they hate their parents. And they're all by design.
If we can come back into just feeling the gratitude once again, for the profound privilege of being alive, of waking up and having these challenges face us, to know that they're actually calling us forth to do what we are supposed to do in these bodies while we're here. And all we need to do is stop for a moment and understand that the distractions are all by design. People now when they have a free moment, it's scrolling. Let me fill my mind full of more data. We kind of need to go the opposite direction. Let's unlearn. Let's be silent and still, for a moment. Let's go back in nature, let's let the frequencies... Literally, they're natural frequencies that get blocked out of being in these concrete rooms, that we can't fully soak up when we're not in the presence of nature.
And so when we do that... I'm doing my best despite the fact that I'm incredibly busy person always juggling three or four films and other things going on just like yourself. But to remind myself how important it is, I'll actually say yes to things that I don't have time to do only because I know it'll force me to be in nature. Yes, I'm going to coach Little League, because I'll have to be on the field with these young men thinking about something other than all the crap and politics and stuff that obsesses my life. And, sit there and be with these 12 little young men, nine years old, 10 years old, and have them help me remember to a deeper degree, who and what I am.
AUBREY: Yeah, there's something in my own life that I've recognized is, I've been studying a very particular brand of like the Solomonic lineage, but in the general lineage of the Hebrew people. There's this idea of the Sabbath. Friday night at sundown, you have your Shabbat dinner, and then you're on Sabbath until sundown again on Saturday. I was thinking about this, and I was like, actually, even though there's a part of us just like all these old traditions, and I have my Jewish grandma, and this is all nonsense, what are we even doing? This is this is silly, it's outdated. It's kind of impulse of well, yes, there are certain elements that are outdated, and there are certain elements that don't make sense, because the reason to do it is not because some God in the sky says that says that you should, but the God that lives within you actually needs this, needs a moment to unplug from all technology. I was thinking, fuck, how good would that be for my life, if, on Friday, when the sun went down, I just turned my fucking phone off and I didn't turn it on until Saturday when the sun set again. And I just had 24 hours to be with my wife, to be out in nature, to have a ceremony, do whatever I wanted to do. To just play or anything else, but to completely unplug.
I'm really drawn to this kind of old technology, of course, reimagining it for this new context. They couldn't have imagined that actually how necessary it was to unplug from technology. So they're talking about oh, light switches and shit. No, I'm going to use light switches. That's not the problem here. The lights being on is not a fucking issue.
I don't need to get a guy to turn the lights off and on for me. I'm fine with lights, but just shut my fucking phone off for a little while. Unplug for a little bit, restore. And then we're going to have to enter the fray if we're going to be effective as sacred warriors in creating change. We're not going to get rid of the whole thing. This is not a regressive movement, but it's about how to take older traditions, concepts, ideas, and apply them to a modern context. I've really become reinvigorated about that idea.
Because again, the first unit of this roundtable model, this Holacracy model, which I think is ultimately the fruition. It starts with the self like how do you get yourself back in the right resonance? How do you get your family back in the right resonance? How do you get your community back in the right resonance? It has to start there. And so, this natural impulse to we are all one, let's open the borders, let's collect everything. No, no, we got to look at our country as like an organ. Imagine if our country, the United States, and of course, there's lots of people in other countries, and I invite you to imagine your own country as this. Let's just say that we represented the heart. Okay, the heart, so we're going to give and care and love and sometimes love fiercely, sometimes love tenderly. We're going to love the whole world, but the heart still needs to protect itself. This idea of just open the borders, we're creating a disaster.
I think there was something beautiful that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. said, which was, I just saw him post this recently, six months ago, I was like, open the borders. Anybody who doesn't want to open the borders, xenophobic. Anybody who doesn't want to open the borders doesn't care about the whole of humanity. But then he's actually gone down to the borders and seen what's going on. Seven million people that have crossed, and we have no way to actually support and care for them. And it's degrading actually our ability to function as an organ. It's yeah, sure, let in the liver cells into the heart, let in the kidneys into the heart, let in the bone cells and whatever else. It's not that livers kidneys, or bones are not also important. But let's allow ourselves the dignity and sovereignty to protect our heart, so that we can actually serve the body of the whole organism in the best way. And so, it is an act of actual love to actually say, no, no, no, we're going to be this.
Now, of course, America has a lot of work to do to represent the heart, and you can say, alright, we'll represent the brain, whatever. But whatever organ we are, we have a lot of work to bring our own organ of a country into functioning well within the organism. But, if we're able to do that, I think it will create a ripple effect. I mean, I think we are a very special country. Sure we have our fucking flaws, we have our problems. There's lots of problems. You can find Empire in so many places in the US. But if we're able to make that shift, and I think that's what Bobby is really all about, leading a charge to make a fundamental shift. Be the ones that tell the truth the most. Be the ones that are the most honest.
And then clearly, we have the resources and capacity to help the world. We created a few trillion dollars out of thin air to lock the country down, which then siphoned a lot of money into the super wealthy corporations, and took a lot of money from the middle class ultimately, and is continuing to take money through the process of inflation. But it would have cost a fraction of that to just say, you know what, we as the heart nation, we say clean water for the whole world, and we're going to employ people to actually go out and put in all of the clean water tools, the septic systems, the wells and whatever. I think the World Food Bank or organization, I forget which organization, estimated it was going to be like 200 billion clean water for the whole world. That's like 1/20th of what we spent to just lock down our own fucking people, for no good reason. It had no positive effect. You look at the correlations of people who locked down and didn't, same shit happen. Six feet away, wear a mask, lock people down. Did nothing.
AUBREY: Negative. Exactly. And then the psychological damage and trauma. But just a wasted opportunity. It was like, oh, we had all of that money all along.
MIKKI: Yes, that's right.
AUBREY: So what good could we do with that?
MIKKI: It reveals a lot.
AUBREY: And then if we started funding policies to actually help people with this new story of remembering, instead of coerce people into getting a pharmaceutical product, but actually listen, remember, these are the things you can do with breath. We put out international coalitions to say, I remember how to connect with your breath. Old, old traditions, again, going back to the old traditions, Pranayama. How do you use your breath to affect your consciousness and your nervous system? How do you use this to actually move through life in a different way? There's so many cool things we could do with the resources we have, with the capacity we have. That's I think, really, our destiny is to step up from each level, from the individual all the way to the state, to the country, and really lead. And actually find a positive channel for this compassion. I think impulse to compassion is a beautiful, beautiful thing. It just needs to become channeled in ways that are going to affect the world in a positive way. It's not going to look exactly like you think. It's not going to be just handout this month, it's going to be about building structures and building stories that can help guide this whole life into a different outcome.
MIKKI: So, the question that comes up for me then is, what is missing within the recipe of humans that is prohibiting that from being our natural pursuit? Why are so few people really going after their life's purpose and looking bigger, instead of just trying to get a job, and trying to... Their goal is, which is an admirable goal, maybe buying a home or having some physical items that bring you security. But beyond that, what's really going on? You've mentioned two subjects that I have been obsessed with forever. You've mentioned them several times, and that's ego and God. It really warrants a real discussion about... For me, ego emerges in the absence of God. I've been all over the place--
AUBREY: Or at least ego takes supremacy in the absence of God. Ego is checked by God.
MIKKI: Yeah. So I was raised with no religion. Only time I'd ever been to a church is for weddings and funerals. I'm grateful for that, because I had nothing forced at me. My only--
AUBREY: Which makes you allergic to God. If you're forced into a religion that you know doesn't make sense. When I moved to Texas... So, I was in California, and I want to go right back to your thread. So don't lose it.
MIKKI: I won't.
AUBREY: But I was raised in California. Again, I had a Jewish grandmother, we lit some candles for Hanukkah. That was pretty much the fucking extent of it. She was only there for Hanukkah once every two years or something like that. I didn't get Bar Mitzvah, I didn't take the whole ride. Then I moved to Texas, and they're like, come on this ski trip. I'm like, cool, I'll come on this ski trip. It wasn't a fucking ski trip. This was fucking Bible camp. And I'm like, what the actual fuck are you guys talking about? Then I saw people just suffering deeply as our own sexual bodies started to come online and the people who are indoctrinated into sex is shame, and the body is evil, all of these different things. They're sinful at the very least. And how wrecked they were. Girls who would lose their virginity to a guy and then the guy would immediately go, you seduced me, you're the devil, how dare you fucking slut. They would just be wrecked, and that was their first experience. I was like, fuck this. I'm going straight Christopher Hitchens. God is not great. Let's fucking tear this whole thing down. So I had like an allergy to the divine.
I think these corrupted institutions, which is just another arm of Empire, where everything rolls up to the Catholic empire, everything rolls up to the chief Brahman, everything rolls up to whoever, they've taken the holy spark of there is the divine, Yeshua had some amazing things to share. There's amazing, beautiful sparks in all of the religions, all of them.
MIKKI: Every tool can be used as a weapon.
AUBREY: Yeah, so what I'm getting at is, I think there's an allergy that comes from when you receive information that's corrupted, corrupted the divine impulse. Then you're like, fuck the divine impulse. So both you and I had the actual liberty of that not being indoctrinated in that so we weren't allergic to God when we went to go find it ourselves. Now, I had a mild allergy. But the mushrooms and MDMA cleared that up pretty quick.
MIKKI: Well, something actually did occur when I was very young that had me develop that allergy. That is an antonym uncle who became born again Christians. Looking back now in retrospect, I can say, I understand now what their mission was. Their mission was to save our family, which really needed it. Unfortunately, them trying to convert everyone had them uninvited to any family functions. And so, as a young boy, I saw this and I thought, what happened to Aunt Judy and Uncle Don? They're always trying to talk God and Bible, so we don't want them to come to Thanksgiving. So I made a decision in my mind, my eight-year-old mind, oh, this Christianity thing is really bad. That's how you lose family, stay away from it. So I developed that through witnessing what happened to my aunt and uncle. Then I spent many years fascinated by religions, read the Old and the New Testament, started studying Taoism, Buddhism. Really connected with, first it was Buddhism. Really found that was the first time I went and meditated with monks that I had an experience of, I feel the lightness of being, I feel this. There's something here.
And a monk said something to me that I'll never forget. I knew when he said it to me, the first time I went and sat in meditation with monks. The only thing I remember was, he said, resistance is the cause of all suffering. I remember driving home in LA traffic going, resistance, that can't be right. All suffering, really? I don't know about that. The next thing I know, I'm honking at the five o'clock traffic. And I'm thinking, oh, wait a minute. Here I am suffering, making my drive home something painful when I know there's going to be traffic every single day in LA at five o'clock. Yet I'm fighting it, I'm resisting it. And I suffer every day that I do that. This is what he was talking about. And then I started to look at every area of my life where I would feel either extreme or just a very subtle suffering. And I'd realize, yeah, I'm resisting what is. My mind is telling me this shouldn't have happened. But it did. So how much better would I be and how much quicker could I heal and move through these things? Brother dying, mom dying 36 days later, was a big thing for me at 23 years old to deal with that. My mom was my absolute best friend. But how much quicker could I have moved through that if I would have really understood what we're talking about right now.
Circling back to the ego, God situation, having not had that force fed to me at a young age, I'm grateful for it just like you. Because while I went all over the map, I actually became an atheist at one point, because a lot of the very brilliant men that I was following were atheists. And I thought, well, if they're that smart, and they're atheists, they must know something I don't know. So, I adapted that for a while, I become a nihilist. I created a term that I used to say to everyone, I used to say we're just moss on a rock. Just fungus growing on a rock trying to make sense out of it. Means nothing, man. Just do your thing. I believed that wholeheartedly. Then I started watching the deterioration of some of these atheists and I realized, oh, this shit has a shelf life. Because when you think there's nothing above you, and there's some atheists that get that there's something above them. For me, it's like, well, they don't want to call that God, I understand. Because the dogmatic, the judgment that comes with it, the traps that come with that, I get it.
And then there's some atheists that don't believe there's anything. Those are the ones that started to deteriorate. I watched their logic start to shift. For instance, you look at someone like Sam Harris, who I used to just admire deeply. He went out full totalitarianism with COVID, and shaming everyone for not getting the vaccine and follow the science, and couldn't believe that people would even hesitate to put an experimental medication in their in their bloodstream, couldn't believe it. Then when the information came out, and he started to realize that he's been called out many times on it, and his ego is so huge that he won't say, "I was wrong." That's one issue I have with Trump, right? Just say you're wrong, dude. It's okay. Just say, hey, Warp Speed wasn't what I thought it was, I was surrounded by sharks that wanted to do me harm. I made a wrong decision. And, I will do better next time. Cool. There's something liberating in that.
When I came out, and did a reversal on my support for Bernie in 2016, yeah, I got some shame, got some death threats. The left turned on me immediately, fiercely. But ultimately, once I went through that, my skin was thicker, and I found this sense of liberty. Speaking the truth, the truth shall set you free. And it did, I just felt like I can just... I've been canceled already. So I don't have to worry about losing my job or whether people like me or not. I'm just going to be honest, I'm going to at all times come from love. But as you said, love can be fierce. And if that love hurts you because it's truthful, that's your experience, not mine.
So, coming full circle into realizing, because I'm even watching... I'm kind of in the middle here, where there's extremism on the left that's really deadly. And there's extremism on the right that's really deadly. I'm kind of in the middle here going, I get it, I get what these people really want. And, there's a lot of great doctors that I'm dealing with right now, top scientists in the world that are struggling mentally right now. I started to counsel some of them, to get involved, mediating some of the wars, the infighting that was happening, to try to figure out what's going on. I don't want this to fall apart. I've been part of a lot of movements, and I've seen them crumble. It always begins with infighting. We are one, we are one team. The next thing you know, you go, "I don't know about this Aubrey guy." I don't know. "Did you hear what he just said?"
I was a big fighter for Standing Rock. And I remember I was in a hotel room, 30 degrees below temperature. We had this team of media people that were going to keep exposing Dapple and win this for the Lakota people. And, we were all in a production meeting one day, and everyone was engaged in the conversation. There was one young man that was sitting there not fully engaged. And he looked at his phone at one point, he looked around at everybody, and he looked really suspicious. Then something kind of confidential was spoken, and he got up and ran out. Someone goes, "I know it. He's a plant." And everyone wanted his full story that this guy, it's like, look at his attitude. And they went through this paranoia. And I went, I mean, I've heard this before, and it's almost never accurate.
AUBREY: Yeah. Everybody's a false flag, everybody's a plant.
MIKKI: I chased this kid down the hallway before he got in the elevator. I said, "Hey, Mark," I said, "There's people in there that think you might be working for the bad guys. What's going on?" You were acting a little strange, and he showed me his phone. He goes, "I just found out my girlfriend's cheating with my best friend." That's what was happening for this young man. And they almost threw him under the bus and they were going to come after him. I had to go back, and said, you guys are totally wrong. Stop being so quick to throw people under the bus and turn on people. We're not going to agree about everything. We're not always going to behave the way that you prefer. And so--
AUBREY: You made a great video about that, by the way.
MIKKI: "Our Birthright." Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I made it just for this reason, because I was watching the entire thing start to collapse with people that were in my film. Judy Mikovitz was angry at this person, and then Robert Malone was being attacked from all these angles, and all these people that I know intimately. They sit at my home, they're my friends, and I'm watching what the world is saying about them. And, I'm watching what the world said about me. When they say about you, you know whether it's true or not. There's memes out there's calling me a domestic terrorist. A terrorist for trying to reveal what's happening, to potentially better our lives and that's somehow terrorism? Okay, cool. But the thing that I think is missing as the understanding of this, and you get this because I know we've been in a lot of settings where I've heard you speak about this. But the mistake is to glorify your own persona, is to really think that it's me. It's Aubrey. The metaphor that I like to use is this.
Imagine the stereo and your car convincing itself that all that incredible music that comes through, it created. Now, the instrument is the radio. It's a receiver and a broadcaster. There are really cheap radios, and there are really finely, finely designed radios. The cheap one plays music at a very low frequency, and a well-tuned instrument plays it at a crystal clear, beautiful frequency that affects the body at a higher and deeper rate. And so, if you look at yourself, your instrument, your tuner, that finely tuned radio in your car deserves some compliments for being so well crafted. And when it comes to the human body, all of the trauma that we've been through, overcoming the tragedies in our lives, learning from them, being a student of life, adapting the cliché that nothing happens to us, but happens for us, helps us tune our instrument so we can receive clearer, more accurate, more life-supporting information, and allows us through the entire circuitry of that system, they call it a sound system. The wires to the speakers matter. You have a cheap, bad ungrounded wire and that speaker is going to buzz. You have really well made speakers that can receive that music that was inspired in the studio by a musician that channeled this beautiful art we call music, this poetry we call music, through the gift that they spent 10,000 hours learning their instrument, their voice, their drums, their guitar, whatever it might be. And then now it can be reproduced through this receiver and broadcaster in crystal clear, perfect quality.
We need to respect our bodies for the way that we have allowed them to be tuned that allows us to be solid, clear receivers. And, our system allows us to communicate in such a way that those words become medicine. So that's the depth into which we should receive compliments. But we are not the music. The radio does not make music. It receives it and produces it. So all these doctors who have started struggling, I've been conveying this to them, because I say listen, I know what you're going through. Four years ago, you were a science geek locked away in a laboratory. Now you're signing autographs at airports, it's a lot. I've been in Hollywood for 35 years, I've seen what fame does to people and it's usually not good. I've seen really, really good people get completely destroyed because they start to believe they are the character that the public loves. And they when they see people fawning all over them, they think I must be anointed in some way. I must be that. Because everywhere I go people tell me, this is the reflection they're showing me. The moment you buy that, that's why I said God and ego, that's when the ego kicks in. And that's when it becomes very detrimental, and might serve you for a short period. But there's a shelf life to that, and it will expire. And you will see the other side of that sword, a double edged sword.
And so, the only way for me, because I see a lot of stuff. I see footage from Afghanistan and all over the place, from Syria. The stuff that gets blurred out on the news, we see it before it gets blurred out. And people always ask me, "How do you stay so positive?" It's understanding that I don't... This is not something I always practiced. If I were still in that as a 35-year-old man with my old beliefs, the work I do now would destroy me. But all it does now is give me gratitude. Gratitude that I get a chance to do something about it, and move the needle to its, might be a minute degree, but at least I'm moving the needle somehow. It might be with one person, but at least I'm not causing harm. I'm doing something that I know is positive, and life supportive.
So, what's happened globally with humanity, and particularly men, is that we have lost contact with this thing we call God. I often say the very thing you said, which is by whatever name you choose. And I speak at a lot of big events and mega churches. And sometimes I'll come offstage and Christians will be, "Sweetheart, I loved your testimony. But there's only one name for God." I'm like, "I understand what you're saying, and thank you. Thank you for standing for what you believe in. But I know when I was a young person, if somebody would have told me that, that would turn me away. I want to give people to find God the way I found God, and that was on my own."
AUBREY: Yeah, and it's to know God.
MIKKI: I do now pray to Christ. Aubrey, in all of my years, if you would have told me that one day that I would even believe in Christ, because I thought it was just some fictional story. I understand now how profound most of the Scripture is, and maybe all of it, sorry, but I need to find that truth for myself. I'm still studying the Scripture, to find out what areas of it. I find it fascinating. There's so much in there that is prophetically coming true. That inspired text is so important. But the understanding that there's an intelligence, and some might... Whatever, call it nature, that's cool. That was my stepping stone towards Christ consciousness, was, let me just call it nature, because I'm comfortable with that. No one's going to judge me by calling it the intelligence of nature. But now I actually realize there is something within this Christ consciousness. It informs me. I had a profound, very profound Christ awakening in 2008. Maybe I'll tell you that story one day, I call it my Jesus burrito story. Because it happened at a Mexican restaurant, and I had to rush home and have this out of body experience that came out of nowhere. Completely sober, no Margarita. But it was actually...
I won't tell the full story, but it actually tuned my system to what I now call the father frequency. Being raised with a mother, a gay brother and two sisters. I was totally dialed into the female frequency, to the mother frequency.
AUBREY: Good place to start.
MIKKI: It's a really great place to start. But I rejected anything to do with the masculine and father. What I didn't know at that time was I was about to have two boys. And so, this was God saying, if you have boys under the condition that you're in right now, with your rejection of the masculine, you're going to fuck them up. So you need to clear that stuff out and let your daddy stories go, and all the examples you've seen of bad dads, and you understand, there's really something. You live on Mother Earth a frequency, and there's a Father God frequency too. And if you can balance those out, your life is going to improve. And all I can say is, I've been with my wife for 21 years. We have never had a real fight. Ever. I credit her for that. She's an incredible woman who just won't fight. I tried for two years when we first got together, until I finally one day I just lost it. I was like, I feel like I'm fucking shadowboxing. She goes, "What?" I said, I'm just, it's me. It's all me. I'm fighting myself. And she goes, "Yeah. Yeah, you are."
AUBREY: So one of the things that I think this brings up for me is, I loved your analogy of the radio, and the frequency. The one that I prefer myself is to think of ourselves as like a flute. I play the Native American flute. It was the first instrument I learned, it's the first way I was able to express music. I was always good with words, I can write poetry. So, it's a kind of music, and it actually operates the same way. Because I think of myself like a flute. This flute has been crafted from wood that has been from the tree of my ancestors. It's like a flute from the tree of my own ancestors and my own DNA. And, it's been carved and the holes have been placed in different ways, in the way that the Fred is, in the way that it's all built out. Like Aubrey is the flute. But the flute doesn't play without the wind. And the wind is the wind that comes from the Divine. And when you really playing and you really are into the music, you're not playing. Spirit is playing through you. It's the actual wind that's moving through your flute that's creating the sound.
And so, if you reduce yourself to the flute, this flute, and you're the one playing and you don't give credit to the wind that moves through you, every great artist knows that it's the wind. You can call it the muse, you can call it whatever else, but you know that you step out of the way Step out of the way and allow something to go through. But it doesn't mean that you completely disclaim all the work it took to make this flute, the work from your ancestors, the work from yourself to create a beautiful flute. And, it's always the wind. So, if you don't have some access to the wind, and I think this goes again, to what, my criticism of the Christian movement would be, which I think there's a lot of beauty. People have fused their adoration for Jesus, which was the flute instead of the Christ, which was an aspect and equality of the wind. And so, what he's really talking about is the Christ. The whole time, he's talking about the Christ. Not talking about me, Jesus, the flute. He's talking about the Christ, which is the Father, which is that masculine principle, that universal love. That's actually blowing through the flute.
So, when you're talking about, and I really appreciate that, when you're talking about Jesus, you're not talking about Jesus. You're talking about the Christ, because that's what Jesus was talking about really, talking about the Christ. That Christic consciousness that's within us. And so, if you fuse everything to adoration of the flute, you missed the point. The point was that he was always pointing to the way, the truth, the light, which is the wind that just happened to go through a very incredible man. And, all credit to Yeshua for being the flute that could hear and play the song that he ultimately played. And so, people will say, Jesus is the only way, and I'll go, okay, thank you. Love Yeshua. I've had my own Yeshua experiences where he is able to embody that Christic consciousness. But if I hear someone say, I'm a follower of the Christ, I'm like, fuck yeah, me too. Fuck yeah, absolutely. Christ is an important frame and important way and an absolutely inexorable energy that we can tap into, absolutely. But I don't fuse that with the man. I give all credit, like mad respect.
If there was one human being that I could spend five minutes with... There was a meme that came out, was like, would you rather have $5 million or five minutes with Jesus? Five minutes with Jesus? For sure, I want to talk to Yeshua, it's invaluable. And immediately, I would ask him, what's your sex life like? That'd be my first question. Because that's another element that I think has gotten twisted. I think, Eros, this natural connection, this polarity that we have with people, if you allow yourself to take that deeper, there's a way that you find the divine in the union, in the Hieros Gamos, in the blending of those polarities. And so, that's the part that I think has been redacted from the document, and there's been a lot of work in the gnostic faiths, and a lot of more imaginal realms where they place Magdalene back in this position of power, and their union, and their Hieros Gamos, and their sacred tantric work, which opened him up to this possibility. Whether that's true or not, I'm sure there's parts of the story that we don't know. And, it's led to this whole shaming of the body in this original sin concept, which I categorically reject. This is how life works.
Life works through the blending and the union, the Zivug, which is the Hebrew word, the Aramaic word for the union. And to really celebrate that as well, as part of this impulse, as the Christic impulse moving its way through also this third dimension density, and creating this spark of energy, which is so powerful, it's like Little Big Bang. When the egg and the sperm meet, there's a little flash of light that comes in. And a new being is born from this. It's incredibly special and powerful and beautiful. So, we got to bring that back with it as well. So, I mean, I think it's really beautiful how you talked about, and what I'm hearing you say the Christ, I'm like, I'm with you. I'm with you Christians. Just call it the Christ, and you got me. You got me on board. I'll sing a hymn, I'll fucking, I'll do the whole thing. I'm totally into it.
This leads me to another part that I want to talk about, and of course, you can comment on what I just said too. But one of the things in "The Great Awakening that you talked about happened in China is they tried to neutralize all the polarity. They tried to actually androgenize the entire population. Literally, everybody had to get the same haircuts, everybody had to wear the same clothes. And they tried to depolarize, not in a way of the polarization we see in the country, left, right, blue, red, all of these things, but depolarize the fundamental structure of relationship, of union, and collapse that erotic energy. So without that erotic energy, you're looking for some way to connect, you're looking for some type of Zivug, union, and the only Zivug that's available, because you can't find it in relationship is Zivug with the state, is union with the leader, and the higher principle.
MIKKI: That's exactly right.
AUBREY: And we're seeing that happen in our own fucking country. Also, these forces that are looking to actually androgenize the population, what is a man? What is a woman? Men are women, women are men. Men can give birth, men can menstruate. There's tampons in male bathrooms. What is that for?
MIKKI: We are in a cultural revolution right now. That's what made Mao Zedong called it, and that's how they were able to corral 1.4 billion people into the structure that the people are still trapped in right now called communism, through a cultural revolution. So, here in the States, we call it a culture war. And so, we are at a cultural revolution. What is our culture? And I want to ask you this, what are three things that Aubrey Marcus would live and die for? Doesn't have to be the top three, but three things that you would live and die for.
AUBREY: The people I love.
MIKKI: Okay, for love.
AUBREY: For mom, which I mean not like my mom, I love Cathy, my mom and I would die for her. Maybe she would die for me first though, so it wouldn't actually--
MIKKI: She's an awesome woman, I love her.
AUBREY: It wouldn't actually serve her. But I'm talking about like Gaia Sophia, the earth, the real mother. I'd die for the mother. And, I'd die for also the principle of the Father, which is story, which is truth, which is value, which is beauty, which is God in many ways. God, I think it's a blend of the mother and father. But all of those things, which includes our freedom, which includes our joy, which includes our bliss, which includes our Eros, which includes all that. So, it would be love for the mother. And then for that, the father principle, for a greater story that would play the infinite game on this plane.
MIKKI: So if everyone that's listening to this podcast asked themselves that question, I really appreciate your vulnerability in that too, I guarantee that if everyone makes a list, three things, 10 things, whatever it is, I guarantee that all of those things are under attack right now. When they can attack everything that's worth living and dying for, and they can take those things away, then they own us. What has sent men to the frontline of every battle to defend their world has been love, ultimately. Love for their country, love for the families love for their wives, their children, whatever it might be. So, everything that you just mentioned there can be encapsulated in this thing called life, this experience called life. Freedom, creativity, the Mother, the Father, birth, death, all of it. This is the essence of what is most important to us. This is exactly what they are attacking.
And when I say they, I want to be very specific here. Because as you mentioned earlier, almost everyone is just following. They don't know they're following, they don't know they're hypnotized. They don't know that they're just bowing. That's the area of religion that I think has caused damage is this propensity to succumb to fear, blind faith and obedience. Very dangerous, when it becomes extreme, I should say. When you looked at what Mao Zedong did, and how they were able to really coerce that number of highly intelligent, very disciplined people... Chinese people are stereotypically intelligent and very disciplined, and honorable people. So, to take away their attraction to each other, to make the women shave their heads and look like boys, and to remove that natural tendency to procreate, to create life, to create family. And I know you've had an incredible life and experience, but brother, when you bring children into this planet, if you think you know what love is right now...
I mean, I'm a love child born in the summer of love. I thought I knew what love was until I had children and then I went, "Holy shit." It's one thing to love another. I've been in love many times. But it's another thing to love what you've created as another. It's a love that is ineffable. So, if you look at all of that, our next generations are being so terrorized by false agendas. Namely, climate terrorism, that they are vowing to never have children, to never have a family. Why would you if you thought the world was going to end in eight years? How irresponsible would it be to bring a child in and by the time they're eight years old, life's over, and they have to experience the trauma of Armageddon? Why would you do that? Those are the narratives that are set up to stop us from procreating, to stop us from creating life. All the while they give us these narratives about overpopulation. That is one of the biggest lies ever told. On this planet, 29% of it is land, the rest is sea. 7% of that is uninhabitable. It's high desert, Arctic, whatever it might be. So what does that leave numbers wise? 20 some odd percent of inhabitable land here. We currently occupy 1-2% of that. But they want us crammed into these smart cities where we can be totally surveyed and totally controlled. Instead of teaching us how to go out and homestead, put our hands in the soil again, grow our food. Why in some states within the United States do they make it illegal to capture rain? Are you kidding me?
AUBREY: Is that for real?
MIKKI: It's for real. Places in Colorado. And/or they limit it. You can have 40 gallons, you can capture 40 gallons, but that's it. I remember as an environmentalist, years ago when I learned this, I don't understand this. Why wouldn't they be saying everyone must capture your rain? Because we're going to run into a water issue very soon. Oh, COVID revealed that truth for me. What did they do when you said look at it, you cannot violate my constitutional rights. I'm going to keep my five generation family business open, I'm not going to let the government destroy it. They said, okay, we're going to cut off your water and power. They want everyone on the grid, and that's how they punished those. They couldn't do it through law, because we have constitutional protection. They could do it through the resources that they own. And they own all the power, the water, and all these precious resources. So that's how they were able to force people, go ahead open your doors, but you won't have any electricity, you can't cook, you can't use your stoves, you won't have any gas, you won't have any water, no bathrooms, go for it. Good luck. Total control over the people. That's why they don't want us out in the rural areas.
The last point I want to make on this is, in my obsession with trying to figure out from a position of, I believe we're all born good and something happens along the way that make men bad. And some women too. What happens? What is the commonality? Is there something there that we can look at so we can avoid that, and not necessarily allow that history to continue to repeat itself? What I found is, within these certain rare archetypes, 9% men, they have a very similar upbringing. They either have a very high powered lobbyist, monopolizing father who was a politician, a high powered attorney, or some political lobbyist, or whatever it might be. They had that to influence them watching daddy go after Empire, and so they become that. Or they didn't get what they needed from daddy. They're carrying that wound into their matured masculine form.
So what we found when we started to look at these characters and realized, all these people, they're not consciously doing this. They actually think, just like Hitler thought, he's doing the right thing. There's an evil thing called Jewish people, and we need to eliminate them. He believed that. Most of the people that are behind these agendas today that are contrary to human survival are thinking that because we are a parasite, it wouldn't hurt to lose a few billion parasites on this planet, so we can actually take the good ones, the ones that come from good bloodlines. And they're wise and they're educated, and to live with those people, because we align with them. The elite families, we align with them. But all these other peasants, we're now reaching an age of automation where we don't really need the worker bees anymore. It's a problem. What do we do with all these useless eaters, as they call them.
So, what we discovered through this my obsession of trying to figure out, I want to figure out what these men are about, these men that are consciously at the helm of these agendas. What we discovered was, the number of people that are consciously twirling their mustaches, and truly meeting in boardrooms going, we need to get rid of a big deal of this population, their numbers are far less than 10,000. Probably closer to three to five. And I've had other people that know how to research, that know, historians have put the pieces together that have come to the same conclusion. The numbers have fluctuated anywhere between 5,000-8000, somewhere in there. But I always say, less than 10. So, we have less than 10,000 people dictating what eight billion people can do and can't do on this planet.
AUBREY: If they just revealed Epstein's client list, we'd be able to take out 25% of them right there. It'd be the great decimation.
MIKKI: It's true.
AUBREY: I mean, seriously. That's one of those things I was hypothesizing. What actually happens if that happens? A lot of these people who've been... That's where it gets interesting, because those are the people who've, in in my tradition, we call it Sitra Achra, which is there's Panim El Panim which is face to face with the divine, like looking straight at God and saying, God, what do you want? And God looks back right at you and says, what do you want? Then you look back at Him, what do you want? What do you want? And then you collapse your desire with the divine desire as close as you can, and it's a mutual relationship of trust and love. I love you, I trust you. That goes both ways. Panim El Panim, you're looking straight face to face with God, which is goodness, value, ethics, virtue, good, the truth, the beautiful Eros, all of that. Then there's the turning of the face where you know actually, you're doing something. Sometimes your face is just turned and you don't know. But sometimes there's those people, and this is intentional malice, where you know you're turning the face, and you know that you're walking a path that is dark.
You may have your justifications, and you may... I think a lot of people do, but those people who got on and went to fucking child slave island, clearly, they're in the Sitra Achra category. There's no way that you can justify using these children as sexual objects, is any way in accord with looking face to face with the divine. And so, there is evil and intentional malice. And, there are the justifications and there are other things. But it is, I agree with you. It's far less than we imagine. But I think there is a consolidation towards the top where a lot of people who do actually know that they're doing some fucked up shit. That does also exist. It's just, I think people imagine that it's everywhere and all over the place. Every CEO of every pharma company is also evil, and every person like this, every politician. No, no, it's way too far. But there is a small cohort that is intentionally turning their face from really opening their heart. I mean, their hearts have been closed, they're all brain. And they're just looking at efficiencies and algorithms and making any justification and then creating a separation, a dehumanization of them and another person where the individual's life...
Again, going back to individualism versus collectivism, that these individual lives don't matter. I'm a demigod. These are some subclass of humans. This was the idea behind slavery, actual slavery in the first place. It was like--
MIKKI: Cradle of civilization.
AUBREY: The dehumanization of a certain type of people. And you can make the argument that all right, well, don't we do that with animals? I mean, we eat cows, we eat chickens. I eat cows and I eat chickens, and I try to be a humanitarian, where I want those cows and chickens to have lived the best fucking life possible, but I'm still going to eat it. But when you extend that all the way to humans, you're fucking lost. You're really, really lost. And I think people already know that with animals. If someone started serving dolphin meat, that's why dolphins save tuna. Everybody is like, yo, stop fucking killing dolphins. It is interesting where we draw the line.
MIKKI: If it's cute, and it's got a cute face.
AUBREY: Yeah, if it's cute or of it's intelligent--
MIKKI: Cows are cute, though. But I had a great steak last night.
AUBREY: Yeah, it's true. But it's like this idea of, we're the demigods, this is our food. And, they've lost the plot. That's where the sacred goes back to life. There is a place where life consumes life, of course, but there's an honoring of that life all the way through, and our First Nations people knew that. They didn't kill the buffalo thinking that the buffalo were just fucking here to--
AUBREY: They were here to serve us, and they don't matter, so might as well put them in a fucking factory farm, and might as well do all of this stuff. And, I think there's just an evolution of consciousness that recognizes, alright, this is a consumptive life death planet in a certain degree. We have to eat life to produce life, and this is part of the process, and plants or animals or whatever they're going to be, part of this cycle. But there needs to be a sacred honoring all the way through if you're really going to be part of life. You're also going to have to reconcile with the times where you have, and I speak personally, for me, where I've gone Sitra Achra with my food. There's a great restaurant here in town called Uchiko. They make this seared foie gras sushi. It's so good, bro. It's so delicious. When I eat it, and I tried to order it, not anymore now, because I know this and I'm aware of it. But when I eat it, I'm like, turning my face from God, because I'm going I'm eating torture right now. I'm literally eating torture. These geese are fucking held in a place where they can't move. Again, it's like, "Fuck."
And so, there's also this recognition of we are Empire too. We've also done things and participated in things because it benefits us. We get a certain pleasure, I get this explosion of flavor in my mouth, and I'm like, "Fuck, that was good." Even have a wine that pairs with it. But I think as we evolve, and as our goodness evolves, that becomes actually intolerable. You're like, alright, this is where I can't do this looking God in the eye, and saying, "Thank you goose for your imprisonment and enslavement, so that I could have this little moment of pleasure." That's not in my goodness, and, I've participated in it. So. we've all got a little bit of this in us. Again, so that opens us up just to have a seat at the table. Listen, everybody. Some of y'all might need to go to jail. But nonetheless, we're going to rehabilitate you through jail, bring you back to a state of goodness. We've all participated to some degree, whether it's you've eaten foie gras, or you've done something far more heinous that requires you to go to jail. Either way, there's a seat at the table. Again, the Christic impulse, there is forgiveness that will come from this greater awareness.
MIKKI: And like you said, where do we draw the line? And who draws that line? Because we can have the same argument for plants, eating salads, right? Because we know plants are conscious. We know what happens when you talk to them. Science has proven that. So, at what point do we say, this is what we're supposed to consume and not this? I think--
AUBREY: I think it's our relationship with the divine, and it goes back to that. Whatever choice we make, we have to be able to look God in the eye and say, "God, I'm doing this. God, what do you think?" God's like, "Bro, you're eating torture." And you're like, "I don't want to hear that, God, blah, blah, blah." I think that's really where I stand, and that's where my policy is, is [inaudible 01:39:28]. It's not that if I'm out on the road, and buddies are getting burgers from Shake Shack or some shit like that, and I know it's not grass fed, and I don't know where the meat comes from. It's not like I'll never eat that fucking burger. But I know some part of me is like, damn, damn. This isn't this isn't actually me abiding in the goodness that actually wants to live through me.
MIKKI: So, on the subject of food, and I've been talking about this lately, because I got into this conversation with one of my editors. He's a real devout Christian. I love him for that. He has more principles than probably any man that I've ever met. And I will say this too. I want to maybe put a cap on the Christian conversation because coming full circle now to actually understanding that there is a there there. I will say, since 2020, being deeply immersed on the frontline of this fight for medical freedom, I have been truly profoundly amazed by certain archetypes of people. The two that I have found to be the most humble servants to life are what I call mama bears. Mothers who have had children injured by vaccines, or killed, and some fathers. Mama bears are fierce. There's nothing you could do to scare them. They've already damaged or lost their baby, and their entire, the rest of their days are committed to saving other children. And, Christians.
Out of all the people that I'm interfacing with, and I'm interfacing with people from all over the world, those are the ones that have been the bravest, the most committed, the most in true service. Because I had to even check myself. I've felt like I've been in service for a number of years, but not until the past four years or so was I able to witness how much of me was involved in the service that I was doing before that felt selfless, but was still to some degree, glorifying my own reputation. Making choices so I could be a hero, instead of just making choices because it's the right thing to do. And letting the chips fall where they fall. And if that means I'm shamed and persecuted and whatever, let it be, because I'm going to do what's right, I'm going to do what's honest.
And, I recognize that when we operate... My goal has really been purification of thought, purification of intention. If I can move into this without just seeing it as an opportunity, because I'm going to do a favor for this person because they might fund my next film and just drop all that stuff that you learn in Hollywood. Everyone in Hollywood is an opportunity. You go to networking events, and people are looking over your shoulder for somebody who might be able to help their career. They're not with you, they do not care about you.
AUBREY: Yeah, the unique beauty of a human being is reduced to a function, which is sociopathy. Has a name.
MIKKI: Right, it truly is. Because their goal is just I have to get here, instead of letting their life's purpose unfold. It is, I have to get on a TV show. That becomes their life's purpose. And they'll never be fulfilled, they'll get there and they'll have the whole world of any drug they want and dark sex, and everything will open up to them. And, they will take the bait and destroy themselves, and spend the rest of their lives healing and trying to undo the damage that was done by taking that lure.
One of the things I've been talking about lately, because I do a lot of things that are centered around... I have a movie coming out called "Bad Medicine." So, a lot of things that I'm involved in have to do with medicine and synthetic remedies. But it has really landed in me, in the past few years that this thing we call God has provided everything that we need. And, it grows from the ground, from the soil. Every food, every medicine, and even to a laughable degree, most of it is in primary colors, as if that intelligence knew someday we would lose our way. And, like Legos that map them out and say, crack open a carrot and look at it. It's in the shape of an iris of an eye, the inside, and it's eye food. Crack open a mini walnut and looks like a mini brain with two hemispheres, and guess what? It's brain food. A bell pepper, looks just like a human heart and four chambers. Looks just like... Oh, it's good for the heart. Avocado looks just like a woman's pregnant belly with the seed inside, and it's great for the cervix. You can go on down the line. It's like some benevolent force left this medicine, let thy medicine be thy food. Left it right here for us.
And we have these other maniacs that are saying no, no, ignore that. That's why I say it's a war against nature. Ignore all that, because, we want the stuff that's going to actually damage your natural immune system, and your health. Which is why we have obesity epidemic. Such that you're going to become lifelong customers on our synthetic remedies.
AUBREY: Yeah, dependence.
MIKKI: Dependence. It's all about desperation and dependence. Getting us to a point of being so desperate that we're dependent upon their synthetic, life-threatening remedies, poisons. So for me, the real move is us coming back to say, first of all, what is my nature? Raising two boys and being deeply involved in education, I'm actually creating a curriculum that will become a book series, and then a filmed series for kids up to about 13 years old, is one of my next big ventures after my next film, which is about climate change or the falsities of climate narrative. We began to explore the question, what is natural and what is normal? Because we are so confused between what is natural and what is normal. We think repetition is natural, because we've seen it. So, here's an example. I hear all the parents say, you have a 12-year-old, he's about to become a teenager, that's when it really begins. That's when they rebel and they turn on the parents, and that's just natural. And I go, "Is it?"
AUBREY: Never happened with me.
MIKKI: There you go. And I say, is it natural or is it just so normalized? Because so many parents don't know how to communicate with their children, and stay on the same team. They oppress their children and their expression, and their curiosity so much, that the child then... My kids have never once rolled their eyes, and I see all their friends. Their dad will be like, "Time to go." My kids never do that. When I go, "Hey, guys, I have something I want to share with you." They'll drop everything they're doing. Because they're like, Dad's got something cool to show us. Because they know, above all, and this is how my relationship we built, our relationship early on, because I was married once and it did not work. Most of it was me. But in this relationship for the past 21 years, we recognized early on, we said, we have to stay on the same team, because most relationships become competitive.
AUBREY: That's exactly what it was with my father. If there was ever a decision to be made, I was on the inside of the decision. And it was valued my opinion and my desires, and everything was valued. And then the consequences were laid out. Then ultimately, he gave me a choice. And I was one of the best kids you could imagine, but why? Because I actually trusted my dad, and I trusted my mom. Everything was a discussion. There was no unnecessary punishment when I learned the lesson because I loved him so much, I didn't want to let him down, and I didn't want to let myself down. Because I really trusted that what they said was real, and they were considering it. So, even bedtimes. Bedtimes are a subtle form of oppression that usually benefits the parents, and somewhat helpful for the kids. But my dad was like, listen, and this is before school, or when I didn't have school. Obviously school, you've got to fucking wake up. But he was like, you want to fucking stay up, you still got to get up, you still got to go to school. So you're just going to be tired. So then I started going to bed earlier. But other than that, he's like, sleep as long as you want. I don't care. You go to bed when you want. It's your choice.
MIKKI: He taught you how to choose.
AUBREY: He taught me how to choose. Even when it was concerning food, I remember, I got really into like sugary stuff, most kids do. My dad was like, all right, l see this. And I just want you to notice that when you have a bunch of sugar, you get this little rush, get this little high. But then just pay attention to what happens about an hour later. You get a little sleepier, you get a little crankier. And I was like, "No, Dad. No way." But he planted that. He's like, it's okay, go for it. I'm not going to stop you. Ultimately, there's going to come a time where you're going to have access to all the fucking sugar in the world. We had a very healthy house, but there was cokes around. He liked Milky Ways, there's Milky Ways and there's all kinds of shit and I had freedom. He's like, just pay attention. Pay attention. How's it feel? How's it feel when you eat another Way?
And so, every rule and every conversation, there wasn't... He didn't treat me like a little idiot. He talked to me like a developing brain. Even complex issues that were far beyond me, he would go... I was Christian, but he'd go, "Aubrey, what do you think about this? These are my friends, they're having this relationship issue. What do you think?" I'm like seven. I'm like, "Well..." Then he'd be like, "Well, that's not a bad thought. But think about it this way." And I was like, "Oh yeah, dad. That makes sense." So I started to develop how to think and how to look at my own body. That's been such a fucking gift. Such a gift. And I never once got on a different team. I've been on my mom's team and my dad's team the whole way, all the way. And I think that's possible. It's possible but it requires a different orientation. Again, the same thing you could apply to the state.
If the state started trusting people to make choices, giving them the real instead of drugs are bad, don't do drugs, all drugs are banned, blah, blah, blah. Be like, alright, listen, these are the issues with cannabis, this is what you'll experience, this is what you got to look out for. This is this. This is your choice. These are mushrooms, this is what it can create. It can create--
MIKKI: It's true guidance.
MIKKI: It's not being pressured by authoritary.
AUBREY: Right. It's like Lao Tzu said, trust them and they become trustworthy. My dad trusted me, my mom trusted me, and I became trustworthy. And I think that's what Bobby would do, when he becomes president. He fundamentally trusts people. And, he knows there's boundaries and guidelines and things, structures that we have to keep in place. There's hard boundaries. No, you can't do this. Even if you see this, this is actually far too dangerous. There is a hard boundary. And I'm not saying full lies... We're not ready for that yet. We're not conscious enough for that yet. Some kids are not conscious enough. There does need to be some hard bounds. I can't, as a nine-year-old, take the car out on the highway. No, you'll get your time. Even if you want to, I'm not going to let you learn the lesson, because it'll end up in a fucking disaster. So I'm not saying no rules, and no boundaries, of course. But the explanation of that, and the understanding of that, so that I could always say alright, Dad, I may disagree with you on this, but I see where you're coming from. I know you're not doing this because you have some thinking, I may just disagree, and then we'll talk about and talk about it. And then ultimately, we'd come to a position where, all right, I don't fully agree with you, dad, but I respect your position. So all good.
MIKKI: Beautiful. And, you're actually... I'm not intending to kiss up to you at all, you're actually a perfect example of what's possible when people are raised properly. You're successful financially. I've enjoyed all the times that I've been to your house. I've really enjoyed watching the humble way in which you interact with every single guest in your home. Everyone matters equally. You always make sure to find a moment to move to a new location to make sure that people feel you and see you. You make them feel very welcomed, loved. And, you're also doing good in the world. You're still, despite knowing a lot, you're a student of everything you experience. And, you're an alpha energy but with a very, very sensitive, as you said, with tears in your eyes, a very sensitive quality. That I've seen many times in you, when you're passionate, that you well up, because you feel so deeply. I had to learn that because I was just all the sensitive forever being raised that I was, and then I had to actually learn what it is to be a man and I didn't learn this until I was in my 40s.
When I had my children, my wife and I were trying, we were reading all the conscious parenting books. And I saw a documentary one day that changed who I am as a father. Basically a deer popped out of the womb, a baby deer, and stood up and ran away. And I was like, wow, not a wobble, not like the Bambi cartoons I grew up on. I thought, that's instincts. Do I have instincts to be a father? Why am I learning from the opinion of all these other people when maybe I should just tune in to what I was given naturally, and pop out of this womb of fatherhood and run in the direction that I know is my path as a father. And the moment I started, and I talked to my wife. I said, I'm just going to throw all that crap out the window. Because I see a lot of other friends that have adhered to that religiously, and I don't think their kids are doing that well. They're running their lives, they're running the parents lives. They're entitled little brats. We go out to dinner with the family and the kid decides he wants to leave in 15 minutes. They'll say, "Okay, can you box it up to go? We have to leave." Really?
AUBREY: Or they'll radically adjust the menu where they'll make the kitchen make pizza, or chicken tenders and you're at a Japanese place. Shit like that.
MIKKI: And I saw in this kind of conscious, new age cult that I was trapped in for a long time, I saw the children... I started to experience a lot of younger boys, because my kids were having friends come over, and I would see their parents and I will see the kids, like, this is a cool kid. Man, he looks me in the eyes, he says thank you, yes sir, and may we have this, and thank you for letting me come over and play. This is an awesome kid, let me get to know his dad, I want to find out who this dad is, who the mom is too, that this little guy already has such reverence for big people. Then you see the kids that were just so disrespectful. Like, you have to remind them over and over, "Hey, buddy, we don't do that in our house. You can't throw things, you can't scream." They're just like, "Screw you, man."
What I recognized, my son had a friend, and they were about five years old a piece. And my son just love this kid. But we were starting to get tired of having him come over because we're like, every time he comes over, there's a problem. He breaks something or he's just unruly. We became friends with his parents, and we loved his parents. They were super cool people. But one day, I took my son and this little friend out for an entire day and I just treated them to the funnest day ever. And this kid the whole time was being disrespectful. I had to keep reminding him. We don't do that here in this family. It's a little different. Please let me know if you're going to leave and run away or whatever. I'm in charge of you. I got to know where you are, man. You don't just take off and go to another store, and I'm panicked. So, it was a day of just like this kid doesn't care, doesn't care. Anything I say doesn't matter.
Finally on the way home, he kept screaming in the car, and I kept saying don't do that. My son is saying, don't do that. And finally I pulled the car over really abrupt. I mean the tires squealed, and I turned around and I let him have it. He was like... I said, "You got it? Never again, bud." I turned around, we're heading home and I heard my son go, "My dad's not like your dad, don't do that." We get home. The next day, there's a playdate. And for the first time ever, the two parents, I looked at people and two parents were there with the boy, and I'm like, "Here we go. He told him, we're going to have to deal with this." I opened the door and the kid ran to me and grabbed me and wouldn't let go. His parents go, "Wow, he never does that." From that point on, this kid was so respectful of me and just wanted... Would be at dinner, he's like, "Can I sit on your lap?" And I'm like, what? What happened here?
What it taught me was the kids are smart enough to know that our world is very dangerous. If they don't have an alpha in their life that they feel, that can take care of them and has their back, they don't feel safe in this world. His dad was so soft, good guy. Loving, loving guy. But it was constant... I'll make up a name because I don't want to give this away in case they see this. But, "Bobby, don't do that. Don't hit your mother. Don't hit. We don't hit. Hey, I see you're angry but we never..." That's like the extent of his. And I became a much more, I jokingly call it, the Republican father. I became much more like, no, let's have some respect in this house because I'm going to teach you how to become a man, and what the world is really like. This kid just became so close to me. And the stronger I got with my kids, balanced, that's why I'm acknowledging you from being strong alpha, and also very sensitive. That's the archetype I have for my boys. Cuddle, love, just oozing with love and gratitude. Eye gazing. Every other day, making them sure how much I love them and how lucky I am to be their father. And at the same time, don't cross that line.
AUBREY: Yeah, totally.
MIKKI: My kids feel safe with me. They know Daddy will take care of business if anyone tries to ever come and hurt them. And the moment this kid had that first experience of an alpha who said, I'm not going to take your shit, I draw the line right here, and you're not going to get away with that. You want to be around our family, this is my rules, and don't ever break them. I could see him going from, yeah, I run my family, but it actually leaves them feeling unsafe, because then they're thinking, if the two biggest pillars in my life I have control over, who's got my back? So they actually need to feel safe by allowing that presence. So, I've witnessed that in you, and I've always just wanted to share that with you. Just witnessing who you are being. And I've never heard that story from you of how you were raised, and now it makes perfect sense. I know, you do a lot of inner work. So I thought, perhaps it's just the inner work, but having that foundation of a parent.
Because our lives are comprised by every choice we make. So them giving you the power to choose, but also the guidance to say, that we choose for you, we're not going to put a loaded gun in your hand at five years old. Because we're responsible enough to understand the development process that you're in right now, and that wouldn't be a safe choice for you, and we love you. My kids know, the metaphor I use for them. And then I'll turn this over to you. I said, listen, you've come to climb a mountain. We all come to climb a mountain. And I've been up and down the mountain that you're just starting to climb multiple times. The first time I got to the mountain, I took every wrong turn you can possibly imagine. I learned everything the hard way and fell off every cliff and injured myself over and over and over, and had to get back to the base, and start that climb again over and over and over. Because I didn't have a lot of guidance in my life. I'm here to actually show you the direct path straight up that mountain. But you are going to be tempted at certain intersections, crossroads of your life, to take another turn. Because you're going to prove to yourself that it's your choice and not mine. And, I'm going to be here for you back at that intersection when you return, waiting for you, loving you just as much, understanding that you had a valuable experience for you. But my job is to help you get up that mountain. So, everything I teach you is to get you where you choose to be. Not where I choose you to be, where you choose to be. Whatever that mountaintop turns out to be for you, I'm going to show you every possible path of least resistance that I can show you. And I'm going to leave it up to you to take that path or not. I'm going to love you regardless.
So my boys know, that when I say hey, we have something to talk about. I'm in the bathtub last night. I was like, "Hey, guys." They had two friends stay over. They come down, they're like, "What's up, dad?" I just wanted to say, I planted a seed. I said, I want to respect you tonight. It's a Thursday night. I have to get up early. You don't, you don't study on Fridays. I don't want to disrespect you in front of your friends by telling you it's time to go to bed, because I need my sleep. So I just ask of you guys that you keep that in mind, and you'll let your friends know and you're sleeping by one o'clock. Is that cool? Can we make that agreement? Because I hear your [inaudible 02:02:05] right above mine. And they're like, got it, dad. And they did it.
AUBREY: Yeah, for sure. Because they love you.
MIKKI: Because the respect.
AUBREY: They love and respect you, yeah. The other side of that, what you're saying is, also my dad and my stepdad were both alphas in different ways. There's just interesting stories about that. Like, taking care of the family and being able to make decisive action. I think my stepmom told me a story when I was sitting Shiva for my father after he passed. It was a story that I didn't know. But they had hired a British nanny, a high au pair, British nanny, highly credentialed, whatever, to help take care of my little brother Will. And she was encroaching on my step mom's kind of authority and kind of undermining things. This is early in their relationship still, early enough. She was like, "I don't know how to tell this to Michael." She finally starts to say, my dad just listens and goes, "Okay, she's fired." Walks downstairs, "You're fired. Take your stuff and get out." He was able to make... Once he got it, he's like, yeah, fucking done. He had the ability to be clear in his boundary.
And then other times when I would get a little out of line, get a little too full of myself. I remember me and my cousin Jesse, we thought we were real good at tennis. My dad was a good tennis player. And we thought we were real good. We were popping off to my dad. "We could fucking take you. With doubles, we'll take you." "Oh, yeah?" He goes, walks into the kitchen. He gets a frying pan. He's like, "Come on, boys. Let's play. I'm going to use this frying pan instead of a tennis racket." He used a frying pan and he kicked our ass. He laughed, and he just let us have it.
MIKKI: That's awesome.
AUBREY: It was awesome. So it was these moments like that. And then also my dad would get, even though my dad was powerful, and he could have insulated himself, he had this group of friends; Chip and Dean and Jimmy. They would all come over and they'd play basketball out on the tennis court backyard. And they would just go at it and battle, and I'd watch my dad just battle. It'd get heated and they'd be talking shit, and they'd be... And I thought, oh yeah, this is a part of it. I want to be that alpha on the court. I want to be that alpha in there, because that was also modeled. My stepdad and my stepbrothers. Anytime, I would get a little too full of myself, they would just beat my ass in something, but I got better every time. It was enculturated. There's that aspect of the masculine principle as well, which is also very important, which is a part of this existence. And so, I've really had such gifts and carrying both of those elements forward. I'm always forgiving.
I remember one time, I decided I was going to take out my stepmom's car, she had a Mercedes. I was like, I'm going to drive this one today, and I didn't ask. They probably would have let me drive it. I had a, I don't know, a Ford Explorer. Something comfortable and safe. It was a fine car, but it wasn't Mercedes. I was like, I want to drive this thing, I bet it's fast. And I'm going to pull out of the garage, and I'm a little nervous. I cut the wheel too tight to pull out and I scrape the side of it before I even get out of the garage. And I'm like, "Oh, my God, what did I do?" I tried to hit the time machine button in my mind. I don't know if anybody's ever done that where you go squeeze really hard, and you're like, "This didn't happen. I'm going to wake up from this and it didn't happen." But it happened. And I remember that could be--
MIKKI: The undo button.
AUBREY: Yeah, that could be a point where my dad just fucking laid into me. I felt so guilty, and I was just so wrecked because I know that I did something that I shouldn't have been doing, and it had a consequence. And it was there, that Christic impulse just came in, like, it's all right, son. We're always going to have impulses and desires to do things, and sometimes they're going to get the better of you. Basically it was like, you're always forgiven, you're safe. You didn't hurt anybody.
MIKKI: That's beautiful.
AUBREY: It was done. It wasn't like he grounded me for that. Because I felt so terrible already. You could see that. It was just tears in my eyes. I'm so sorry. And it was like, it's done. Don't worry about it. We can fix the car. I see you've learned the lesson. So you're always forgiven. So there wasn't anything that was an over response to the... I actually learned forgiveness. Like, oh, fuck, you can be forgiven when you fall. When you fall, there's that aspect of the father too that's like, it's okay, I love you. And so much of all of those beautiful things. I was obviously very touched by you reflecting that to me. So much I have to just give credit to where credit is due. And yes, I have done a lot of work, and I've grown. Part of that was also because my dad recognized that even with how well I was raised, I needed an initiation. That's when I was 18, he just invited me, and I'm telling the story in my new book that will come out next year, "Psychonaut" I'm telling this first story of when he invited me to go sit with his shaman after high school. He was like, this is basically an initiation if you're up for it. You're going to see aspects of the world that I can never show you.
MIKKI: How old were you?
MIKKI: At Aya?
AUBREY: No, it was actually psilocybin and MDMA. It was a shaman that came through, more of a sitter, more of like the highest level sitter. She wasn't trying to adjust the energy. A shaman adjusts the energy. That's the distinction I make between a shaman and a sitter. A sitter just allows the medicine to fold, holds the boundaries and keeps things safe. Holds the container but doesn't try to influence it. And it's a really super, like valuable practice just to be able to be a sitter. Shaman is another level where you'll be able to adjust energy, singing icaros or songs. But she's really just holding the space. And it was, yeah, psilocybin and MDMA in the mountains north of Santa Fe. That initiation was an initiation that helped me grow from the separate self-identity and atheist separate self. Again, I was in my allergic to God, there is no God, this is all bullshit, because of what I had experienced when I moved to Texas. It initiated me into a whole new worldview.
And so, the necessity for initiations, which had been part of culture from the beginning of time, but they've all been hollowed out just like all the holidays, which used to be festivals that allowed you to drop ordinary life, like Burning Man and experience a real festival. They've all been commercialized, commodified, hollowed out, emptied out. All of these things. Even marriage ceremonies, I fucking can't stand them. They're the worst. Funerals, the whole thing. Everything's been hollowed out of the soul of the thing. But this initiation was, it was all soul, it was all real. It was all something and that initiation then propelled me. That was like the key moment, the defining moment in my transition from the separate self, Aubrey, into the greater Aubrey that's connected to the field. And then he had the intelligence to start me on that path. And once I'd been on that path, there's no looking back.
MIKKI: What a great move. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to... I've already told my boys there are certain rituals that will go to another country to partake in together when they're old enough. Because I started doing Ayahuasca work in 2006, and went really hard for seven and a half years. Nadia and I, my wife, we started to host a shaman, a Peruvian shaman about once every month or every other month, and then be sort of traveling around the world with him. What I saw through that work is really hard to describe. As I mentioned earlier, it was so unifying, and people would wake up into the remembrance that I've been speaking into, is really just understand what their role in this experience is. There's a lot of people, I think that's the part of the extreme religious side that don't... At the one hand, they're so extreme that nothing exists if it isn't in the Bible. But on the other hand, they really, really devalue their God and don't give their God enough credit. Because as the Bible says, this and more you shall do. Created in my likeness, what I've done, you shall do more.
AUBREY: Yeah, the evolving nature. A living word.
MIKKI: That's missed a lot. Because this editor that I mentioned earlier, wonderful human being, but his narrow religious beliefs were getting in the way of him editing for me. Because there were a lot of things that would come up. And I'd say, "What happened to the guy story about the meditation and the breakthrough, whatever?" He's like, "Ah, meditation." "What?" "It's dangerous." "Oh, really? Tell me about that." Meditation is sitting in silence, and allowing higher intelligence, God, to actually be listened to. I get that all of this, all of these tools can be weaponized, and they have, and having escaped the New Age cult, I can look back and see how much of it was... And how many people that are still in that cult that I know that are suffering. And they haven't found oneness, they haven't found peace and unity. All this stuff they've been preaching for 20, 25 years, they still haven't found it. So there's something there that I think becomes a deterrent from the simplicity of the plight of life, and just getting that it's all within this. It's just right here. There's no work you have to do other than strip away everything that isn't that. So, we got in this conversation and he said, "Oh, yeah, all that saging and incense," and he say--
AUBREY: It's the devil.
MIKKI: When I go into someone's home, and they're doing that, I run. And I go, "Wow, man, that's very interesting." I said, how do you know that what... Doesn't their intention matter? What are they doing it for? Maybe it's just the scent and the odor in the house, that they want their home to smell beautiful? Or maybe they... It's a form of prayer, right? If you sage when you walk in the doorway, I understand it's woowoo. And you don't have to believe in it. There's a lot of stuff that I've kind of divorced from the assumption that it's doing anything. I now like to focus on the tangible stuff that I can see results from, and feel and know from my personal direct experience that this is actually beneficial to my life. The rest of this stuff is just ritual and habit and show and all that stuff. Feel free to do it, but don't kid yourself to think that it's all you need to do to live a great life. Because a lot of people who have focused just on that, that I know for the past 25 years are not living a good life. There's something still missing for them.
And so, we got in this conversation, and I said, I said wow, man, it's just so much fear in everything you say. There's a lot of fear. You're afraid someone has the opportunity to put demons in you. There's a lot of... You're susceptible and I don't think you give your God enough credit. The subject of crystals came up, and I said, listen, my wife's into crystals. I think they're beautiful. I think they potentially hold great power. I'm just not into them. But my mind isn't closed, my heart isn't closed to what they could potentially provide for the human body. And he basically is like, oh, that stuff. And I said, from your belief, did God create you? Of course. Did God create you to need food? Of course. So, what part of you negates the idea that God created the crystal? And that it could be feeding you in a different way than food? And because it's not... Ultimately his answer was because it's not mentioned in the Bible. And I said, but this and more you shall do. So is everything in there, or more that we are meant to now go and discover? And if God made all this, which you say He did, why can't we focus more on the way we interact with these things? Instead of immediately assuming that it's dark, and evil, if our pastor doesn't tell us it's good.
AUBREY: It's the living relationship with the divine that is to be known not believed in. That's been my path. It's been an experiential path. So, let's use crystals, you brought it up. I always love crystals, I thought they're beautiful. I collected them as a child. But when people started assigning all of these powers, and you'll go to a store, and they'll say this crystal has this power, I'm like, I don't feel the power. I don't feel the power. But then 24 years into this psychonautic journey, I'm just now starting to be of such a finely tuned radio, that I'm starting to feel a little thing. It's subtle. It's so subtle. I have to get again, so quiet. God speaks in the whisper. Crystals aren't going to overwhelmingly do some magical Gandalf shit. But if you're just finely tuned enough, and you just hold the right crystal in the right moment, you might just feel a little something. So, it's just a little clue of always keeping an open mind. I was just like just, crystals are beautiful. That's all nonsense. I love them, but it's nonsense. But then just subtly, enough, subtly enough, I start to feel a little bit.
Same with something people using clearing tools, tobacco or Palo santo. Yeah, it smells good. But then you get with somebody who can do like a really good tobacco cleanse, or a cinnamon cleanse, like my teacher Maestro Orlando could do. And you feel it when you're on the medicine, and you're like, holy shit, that tobacco caused me to go through a full body purge, and I could feel the energy moving from. Then when I feel it, that's the only thing I can trust. It's also through your body, you envision God. I think we have to get back to being able to feel it, being able to be sensitive enough. And then decide what's there, what's not. I mean, there's lots of fancy contraptions with copper and fucking pyramids that are made that have things in them, and I'm like, I can't feel it, but I'm open to it. I'll bring it into a journey one day, and I'll see if this thing actually...
But it's about, can I really feel? And that skepticism is important. Because otherwise you can get led down a variety of different paths. One of those categories that's going to piss off a lot of my friends, one of those categories is the biogeometry movement. I'm just not sensitive enough. And I had them come, and I was like, I'm going to give this a try. I had them come do my house, and I tried the little devices. And I'm like, I don't feel shit. Nothing happened as far as I can tell. So, one, there's two premises, as like a good scientific rationalist would say. There's two premises. One, I'm not sensitive enough to feel this. I'm too crude an instrument. Or, it's not doing anything. Either one. I'm not closing my mind to either of those possibilities. It's just like, we'll see.
MIKKI: Yeah, it's so important. You remember the book, "Four agreements"? Don Miguel, who is an old friend of mine.
AUBREY: That was my first encounter with someone who I would say was a true mystic. Don Miguel really walks the fucking walk. When he hugs you, it's like the hug of the Father.
MIKKI: And then what was the fifth agreement? Do you remember what the fifth agreement was? His follow-up book.
AUBREY: I didn't read that one.
MIKKI: People were upset because it wasn't what they thought it would be. He did the "Four Agreements" and then he did "The Fifth Agreement". And it was, be skeptical. People were like, what? That's not spiritual. That's not poetic. Just be skeptical? Yeah, be skeptical about all of it. It's important that we do that. I've had so many experiences. I mean, I filmed a placebo test. Where we literally took, it was a movie that we were doing called the magic pill. This piece actually didn't make it into the movie. I have it on storage somewhere that we might end up using it one day. We hired 11 people. We took literature about Ayahuasca and we plugged in a fake name. We hired 11 people. They came in and we gave them this literature and we said you're going to take one pill three times a day, for 72 hours. Take this home and read up on it before you take your first pill, and it was all about lucid dreams and connecting with the divine and the spirit and seeing the fractals and what the... All this stuff. And, how it got people over addiction and out of bad relationships. It was all Ayahuasca literature.
11 people go home, one dropped out, personal reasons. I looked up, I did all this deep study on nocebo and placebo test. And so, we were expecting about 30 to 40% of the people to have a profound experience, because that's about what the numbers hit, sometimes 50%. One by one, 72 hours later, we brought all the people in. A guy had originally came in, we picked people that had issues. So, a guy came in on a cane, an older couple, they were in their late 60s, early 70s. They were at odds and sleeping in different beds and relationship over a bunch of different issues. We interviewed people to find out what's going on with them before we said yeah, you're the perfect person for this test. It turned out that all 10 people who remained in the study had profound experiences. 100% results. We later learned because the people, we found them through our public email. We were doing a newsletter blast every... So we found them through our newsletter. Usually those studies are clinical institutions that will hire randomly out of Craigslist or whatever. So the people already come in not knowing and not trusting who these people are.
But because they already trusted me and my company, they bought into this thing, hook line and sinker. And in 72 hours, people sat down one at a time in front of us. The guy walks in without a cane and we went, "Oh, Jim, what's up?" And he's like, "Don't need my cane anymore, man. This stuff is incredible." Went on. What was in the pill? Alfalfa. Like a blade of grass. The older couple came in, they renewed their vows within 72 hours. They were deeply in love again. Came back to sleeping in the same bed. A young lady quit her job and found what she said was the love of her life. One story after the next. We were looking at each other. Someone would walk out and we'd go, fuck is happening here? What is going on? Profound experiences. And then we had to break it to them. We said there was nothing in that little capsule, a blade of grass. We were expecting some people to be upset because we lied to them. We did. But it was for this cause to really find out what the power of the mind was. Thankfully, no one was upset. People cried, because they said, "I did this myself." Yes, you did.
See what happens when your attention... And I equate our attention to being the will of the rudder of our ship. Our attention has been hijacked by pirates. And I know this because I used to work with those pirates. As a filmmaker, I've spent many hours in boardrooms with high level ad executives, as they formulate how they're going to get people to buy their product. It is through mental manipulation, it is through making people feel less than, it is through sexual attraction. It is almost never about the product and what the product is about. It's just, we need to capture their attention. Once we have your attention, we can steer you wherever we want you.
AUBREY: And if you make them afraid, then you get even more attention.
MIKKI: Totally on that. Then they go, take me to a more safe place, please. Yeah, okay, I'm the politician, I'm going to stop climate change. I'm the one, just vote for me, and your children will have a future. This is just the BS thing that they've been doing forever. So, witnessing that, having seen, having moments when we still live in community. There were 21 of us living in Ojai, California in live workspace. So I had two companies, and 21 of us, everyone working for one of the two companies. This is when I studied new age cult because it was a cult that... It really wasn't a cult, but it was highly spiritual. We had every kind of guru coming in every month, you can imagine. And, coming with his experiences. One day, we had this "guru" come, and he passed this rock around everybody. We did a meditation, he passed a rock around. This is inspired by your story of I didn't feel this modality that your friends might introduce you to. They pass a rock around, everybody was like, some amazing story about how it was blessed and where this rock has come from and who has held it. And everyone's like, "Oh, my god, wow. I can just feel that... I can feel it from here. Oh, wow." Pass it on. Everybody's doing this. And I grab it, and I went...
MIKKI: Nothing. And the guy goes, "Interesting. That was a rock from your driveway." He goes, "You're the only one that didn't get fooled by it. That's interesting." And I was like, oh, wow, what is that mechanism within me? That because I'm skeptical, because I'm a hard headed rebel, bastard in many ways when it comes to like adhering to any group or any kind of rule. That's what saved me from so buying into these things that... When COVID was announced, I went, "Bullshit."
AUBREY: Yeah, me too. That was the initial instinct."
MIKKI: All our control.
AUBREY: Yeah. And it's not denying that you can't get sacred COVID. It's the thing--
MIKKI: Yeah, or that I can get suckered into these things, I have. I was with Bernie Sanders. I've been suckered into these things, so it's not foolproof. It's becoming more and more foolproof. But the challenge is, how do you allow that to happen where you become really clear, your BS detector becomes really clear, and you get that 80-90% of all this stuff is either misinformation, disinformation, or just someone trying to hustle and scam something and stay positive and optimistic.
AUBREY: And also not get sucked down these rabbit holes where you expose the bullshit that's come, like the safe and effective lie. I always knew COVID was something that people could get sick from, but just the response, that's when I called bullshit. We're way over blowing this thing. Something is really wrong with the response here. There's something else at play. I've had COVID a couple of times, and it's not fun, but I'm over it in two days. Taking that horse paste, doing the thing, vitamin D shots, and I trust my immune system. And I know that there's been many people affected by this. I'm not a COVID denier. I know that it's a fucking thing, I've gotten it. It felt different, felt unnatural, actually. Felt like an unnatural progression of a sickness within my body. It was like, this is fucking tested positive, alright, just a thing. But I could tell that the response was way off, that this whole narrative had faults in it.
Then I've also seen people who've seen that and then gone so far in their skepticism, that it leads them down to places of Flat Earth Theory. Well, oh, yeah? Well, dinosaurs aren't real, there's no such thing as flat earth, nuclear bombs are fake. All these hole... And I'm like, yo!
MIKKI: Birds are all a military intervention.
AUBREY: Right, exactly. It's crazy. It's like, yo, you've taken it way too far. And I think that's also something that people want. It's why Flat Earthers have never been censored because like the forces are like, oh, good. We can use these guys to show that anybody who questions the narrative is fucking completely full of shit.
MIKKI: That's a great point. If you look at John Oliver's attempt to take down Plandemic One, he went moon landing, which there are some questions whether or not that shit happened or not. Flat Earth, Plandemic. So this is how they do it. You have to get everyone triggered by the absurdity of these things, and then you introduce Plandemic, and they've already lumped it into that arena. I try to tell some of my friends that are flat earthers and all that, and listen, believe whatever you want to believe. I don't believe that. I just don't. If someone can show me something that convinces me, and there was a time about three years ago, when I went down that rabbit hole and there was... Someone showed me something and I went, I don't remember what it was at this point. But I thought, oh, that's suspect. Let me go deeper on this, you might be onto something here. And I went deeper, deeper, deeper. And I realized that if they're not censoring it, first of all, if they're allow you to say whatever... Flat Earthers do not get censored. There's a reason for that. So first, be very skeptical of that, because it's the truth they censor.
And, that sometimes they plant the appearance of truth within these narratives. This is the true controlled opposition psychological operations. They'll plant something within these, a fake photograph that's obviously fake, that anyone who knows Photoshop, whatever, can look at it and say it's fake, and they'll plant it on the NASA site or whatever to do something, so people can go, if that's fake, and we can prove it, then this whole thing is a scam. Because they want to be able to sustain the absurdities so they can tangle them with things like Plandemic. They can now just say these tinfoil-hat-wearing. But that's dying. They're losing the power on that now because most of the world is going, you know what, the conspiracy theories are right way more than they're wrong. So, let's say 10% of them are just crazy, unhinged, like okay, good. Let those go. But no longer does conspiracy theorist have the bitter taste that it once had.
AUBREY: Which was a CIA psyop from the beginning. They created that word to marginalize people who were questioning the JFK assassination.
MIKKI: And if you just explore what the word means, what does it mean? A conspiracy is two or more people planning something, and a theory. So I have an idea that two or more people are planning something. That's like everything. The entire World Economic Forum are thousands of people behind closed doors, planning things. So, that is a conspiracy theory. That's all it really means. But somehow they've turned it into this third rail that was very effective just a couple of years ago. When they went after "Plandemic 1" for me, it was a very interesting experience. Because the first 48 hours were just people literally reaching out. Majority of the people were like, "I'm in tears." This isn't a very emotional film, why are so many people in tears? They'd say, because I now know I'm not crazy. I knew, I felt intuitively, I felt there's something wrong, and your film was the first thing that helped me realize that... Because I was just feeling crazy. Why is the whole world moving in one direction and I see something else? Am I nuts?
And so, people were just high five, and thank you, celebrating. Then the media came out, and said, oh, man, what is this film? It already has millions of views online, it's going crazy. It disrupted their plan to sequester everyone into their homes, and assuming they're all going to watch the corrupt mainstream media, and they're going to be indoctrinated by that narrative, come out of their homes in two months, and be puppets on a string. "Plandemic" was one of the many things that foiled their plan, because they underestimated the people, the resilience and brilliance of humanity. Because they assumed you're just going to watch MSNBC and Fox and CNN and all that, cool. No, the people went right to the encrypted apps, and they started sharing information. This birthed the generation of citizen journalists, because they went, no, join me on Signal, on Telegram, whatever, here's some...
And I watched it shift because during the whole process, I was being invited to speak at these large events. In the first two years, my only preparation I ever made for a talk was let me find my latest research, something that people don't know, and I'll bring it to the audience and I'll drop the bomb on them. And I loved doing that because they'd be like, "Did you guys know that he's related to her? And that Anthony Fauci's daughter was really part of the..." People are like, "What? What" I can't do that anymore, Aubrey. Everywhere I go, and I think I'm going to drop a bomb on the audience, the whole audience goes, "Yeah, we saw it. Yeah, we know." Oh, I just shared this, and they'll one up me. They'll say, "Yeah, but did you hear..." And I'm like, no. Wow, what? The audience is so far ahead now. Because everyone is doing the one thing that we have been told not to do forever. Don't discuss politics. That was a big ploy to get us to just go, let those guys take care of that. And once a year, twice a year, we'll go and we'll just vote for everyone that represents the color that we like, and then we go back to our jobs and let them take care of our lives. And now people are talking every day and probably too much.
They're obsessed, right? They're going, what is going on? Did you hear about this? And the school board, and Phoenix and blah blah blah. And they're aware of all the stuff that's happening right now. And that is the beginning of something incredibly powerful that we have never experienced as humans on this planet. Have we ever been in a situation where people are like, no, I don't trust, I've lost trust. So, we have to trust something. So when we've lost trust, and all the authorities, all the elected leaders, we've lost trust in the corporations that have all gone woke, that we used to think were the greatest things ever. Now we're I don't know if I want to support NBA anymore, whatever it is.
AUBREY: Disney movies.
MIKKI: Disney movies, right. All these things that we thought were benevolent and wonderful. It's wonderful, good. Lose your trust and all that crap, because that's what you should never have trusted in the first place. So, then the question becomes, what do you trust? What do you trust? And that's how people are finding something greater than themselves. Because they're going, I don't have all the information. So, I have to receive guidance from someplace. So let me go back into doing this work. Let me listen to the trees and the plants and God, and like you said, by whatever name you choose. Just don't make the mistake to think that you are all it is. Because your life will not end well.
AUBREY: Yeah, I think the archetype of the sacred warrior is, it emerges when the field demands it. There's all the stories of, think of gladiator for example, or, even William Wallace. William Wallace, let's take the movie "Braveheart" as a story that's representative of an idea, right? William Wallace was going to be happy to live with Marion, and be in the glade, and have some kids. But then Empire's force was too oppressive, and they took something from him that was invaluable. And it awoke a sacred warrior within him that led to the liberation of Scotland. Of course, Robert the Bruce had to carry it out. But he gets so much credit for that. And I think we're in a time now where Empire's pressing so close that people who would normally be happy to raise a good family, and do their own thing and hang out with their friends, have bowling night, have whatever, just kind of... They're being awakened. And I think that's what Empire is underestimating. Empire's underestimating that the more they push, yes, they'll get some of the mob on their side. But it's actually a smaller group than they think. And they're underestimating the lions that they're waking up.
I've seen that process happen with me. It's a process of deeper and deeper levels of commitment. That's why I've been deeply inspired by people like yourself, and Del Bigtree, and JP Sears, and people who've, early on, really early on, were willing to actually step into the fray, take the arrows. I feel myself every day, more and more as I feel it pressing a greater thing emerging from myself. And also, in some ways, like a little bit, and I liked your opinion on this. A little bit of, come on, man. I've had allies that see what I see but are aren't willing to like fully step in and go, I'm all in for all life, I'm pushing all the chips in no matter what. But I'm worried about reputation, I don't want to get attacked. It's like, you have to be willing to be hated in this world to step up, as I say. You have to be willing to lose and to sacrifice. And of course--
MIKKI: It's the hero's journey. It's the hero's journey. And you're right, there are still a lot of people. It's shocking to me. I understood and 2020, understood in 2021. We're now in 2023, close to 2024. It's shocking to me how many people are still holding on to that, and it shows really, because we've been so primed through identity politics that we think the identity is what matters. So, everyone's afraid to have their identity tarnished, because they've worked so hard to build and paint that perfect façade. But I always tried to see the beauty in all of it. And for me, the beauty is this. There's something benevolent at the core of their lack of courage. Yes, ultimately, is a lack of courage. But what they don't want to lose informs you what matters to them. They want to be connected. There's something primal and intrinsic within us that needs to be connected with the human organism. And they've found their connection. Their connection unfortunately has been built and bonded but through agreement. And they know that if they disagree, the bond is broken.
So, they're willing to resist their own life's purpose, their own impulse to do something. That hurts when you have an impulse, and there's a right thing to do, right? Like there's a burning car, and there's a baby strapped in a baby seat, and you have time to go save it but you decided not to, because you might get hurt. You're going to live with that your whole life. You let that baby perish. So there's an impulse that says, I'm willing to risk my life for that life. There's something very noble and very primal in that. So, at the core of this, it informs us that this connection is so deep, so necessary, to our experience here in life, that we're willing to suffer the consequences of not doing something. What people need to wake up to, is, everything that they think they're preserving is going to be gone anyway if they don't do something.
MIKKI: So we have all these people out in the world with millions and billions of dollars, and they're hoarding it. The dollar might collapse, and whatever. They're hoarding it. And they don't understand that by stepping out, using first their voice... There's a reason that our Constitution, the First Amendment is power of speech, the freedom of speech. There's a reason the Bible says, in the beginning was the Word. Our voice is our medicine, to heal what's happening. So, first voice, speaking. And then it's our resources. Now, in this physical realm, we've created the necessity for the currency of money, why aren't there more millionaires and billionaires stepping forward to say, let's fund this and fund everything? My donors are the same donors that JP has, that Del Bigtree has. There's 12 donors funding this whole damn thing, and they're not the richest people on the planet. They might be worth $3 million, but they're giving the last of it away, because they get it. They get that pretty soon, their money won't be worth anything. And so let's support the front line any way we can, so we get to cross this threshold together, and look back in our golden years, and know that our stories will forever be told. That, we were the generation that saved America, and America was the firewall to protect all other nations, which is the truth.
And so in that essence, without it being too bombastically arrogant, in that essence together, we save the world. And it's real. And it's tangible, and it's possible, and it's inevitable. If we just get past this false connection with tribe, with the collective, because people are also waking up to realize that. All the people that were fighting for woke just yesterday, today they're being attacked by everyone that they've gone out of their way... Because they realize, at a certain point, they keep adding new boxes. You tick a box, you tick a box, you tick a box. Okay, I'm all for supporting transgender people, dress how you want, identify how you want, that's great. And then it's, you want more rights than me? Oh, wait a minute. That's interesting. We have a transgender mass shooter in Tennessee that they hide her manifesto from the world. And when it's another shooter, they blast it to the world. They don't want people to know. Why is she getting special treatment? And then everyone else gets persecuted. Why do we have these protected classes? The reason is, is because it's the power of resentment. It's one of the policies that I strongly disagree with Bobby on. And the beautiful thing about our friendship is, and he's so humble that I tell him to his face.
AUBREY: Yeah, and he still carries you as a friend.
MIKKI: But he's for a different form. I have to say, just to give him credit, different form of reparations. If there is a sane form of reparations, that's the one he wants, but I disagree with all of it. Because at the end of the day, it's going to damage black people. Because what it creates is resentment. Give every black person $100,000 in this country, and then you got the Irish stepping forward, the Chinese stepping forward. Every other culture, which is every culture that was in some part, oppressed, enslaved, whatever. And then they start going, why did these people get what we don't get? It creates resentment. And that's their goal is to keep racism alive. So, I'm strongly against these policies that actually ultimately create social disaster. They sound benevolent, and I used to be fooled by them.
AUBREY: It's the difference between intent and impact. The intent is beautiful, Oh, this is a beautiful intent. So much was taken from you, and so much was... So, the intent, like there's a liberated spark in the intent. The intent of all of the transgender movement, it is our compassionate, it is our love. Yes, of course, you shouldn't be bullied, you should be able to express yourself how you want. But then the impact, people aren't looking at the impact of what the intent is. This is where there's a big gap is, no, no, that's a beautiful intent. But just take a look at what the impact of this will actually be, what is actually going to happen. That's the one thing that I really, I really do trust about Bobby is, I'm sure there's things that I don't agree with him about either. But I trust that he's honest enough, humble enough and willing to learn. Even the fact that he said, how much he changed his opinion about the border policy just by going there and learning. I trust his goodness and his willingness to learn. That's why I've pushed all my chips in. It's not that I think he's in the perfected form now. I think he's someone who's willing to evolve, adapt. That's such a crucial, crucial thing.
MIKKI: Very rare thing these days.
AUBREY: Very, very fucking rare thing. The other thing I want to touch on, is the hobbits, Frodo and Bilbo. They could have easily just stayed in the Shire and been like, look, Sauron and Saruman, they're way off there. The orcs, they're never going to make it to the Shire. Oh, no, the orcs will make it to the Shire. If we don't stand at Helm's Deep, if we don't stand and actually put the ring of fire back in the source from whence it came, the Ring of Power, the orcs are going to come everywhere. It's going to be a world that is actually run by the orcs. The Shire is not going to be safe. I do think it's a beautiful movement that people are creating their own Shires, and I support that fully. I've done it, I have my own farm in Lockhart. It's our own little Shire, it's our own little hobbit Shire. But I'm not confused by the fact that the orcs will come. The orcs are an ideology. It's not a race, it's not a class, it's not a not a person. It's the ideology of Empire. Empire will come, anti-life will come, and it'll come to the gates of the Shire.
So, unless we go meet it where it is, it's coming for all of us anyways. There's no escaping. And I think so many people are creating little Shires of privacy where they're willing to say something like, yeah, I really liked Bobby. Well, why don't you say so? You know, he's an anti-vaxxer, my friends... Well, if you don't stand now, it's all going to come back deeper, deeper, deeper until the barbarians are at the gate. We have to step forward and meet them where they are, and resist that energy everywhere within ourself and across the board. I'm trying to like ring Revere's bell and be like, hey, the Empire is here, it's at our door, and we got to meet it. We may have different ideas about what's the most important place to make the stand, and what hills we're willing to die on. But we got to pick some hill. We've got to meet them where they're at. That's the place where I stand now. I see more people getting closer and closer but we don't have so much time, y'all.
MIKKI: It's accelerating.
AUBREY: Now is the time. We have the opportunity to halt this, to halt the horde that's coming. The horde of idea and story it's coming again. It's not about the people. I think people can be confused and mass formation, and I love... I had a podcast as well on mass formation early on. I get it.
MIKKI: You had Matias on, yeah.
AUBREY: Yeah, I had Matias on. But it's time. It's just time. And I've found in myself, like all right, man. All right. like I've been in and I've been fighting little skirmishes here or there and putting things out here or there. But slowly, especially this year 2023, I think it's just been an ever escalating curve where it's like fuck it.
MIKKI: What you're describing is literally the hero's journey. So, boy, it must have been 35 years ago. I was finishing my first film. That's how old I am. I was living in San Francisco temporarily because the lab, it was back in the day when we edited on actual negatives, which I'm so glad those days are over. It was archaic and a lot of work. So, rented a place by the lab, Monaco Labs in San Francisco. And, I was going to the lab every day because it was a film I made on a shoestring, and these guys were so cool, they loved the film so much and they were like, "Listen, we want to cut you a better deal. But you have to come in and do the labor yourself." So they opened up their lab to me and taught me how to do it. I was in there splicing negative and making my first film. And down the street, way down the street was a used bookstore. And I went in there one day, and I saw a box full of VHS tapes, and it was Joseph Campbell. And I was like, "I'm going to get these." And it changed my world.
So I started putting those things in the VCR. Just watched these things and taking notes, and I started studying the hero's journey. For those who don't know, Joseph Campbell spent his lifetime studying the stories that we tell each other, that we've been telling each other since the beginning of time, and finding what the commonalities are. From cave etchings to campfire stories, everything that's been left for him to examine, mythologies. What are the mythologies about? And he started recognizing there's a common thread in almost every mythology, and he mapped it out having studied every culture just about. And it was so profound of a work that this man left behind that years ago, Hollywood adapted, most of Hollywood. Screenplays are based off of the hero's journey work. So, from the most iconic movies that you remember, that I remember. From "ET" "Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back" all these films. All the way to the modern day films, "The Matrix" and "Avatar" and all of them. They're all based loosely on a three-act structure that follows either directly and religiously the hero's journey or loosely.
And ultimately, what that is, is a reluctant hero that stumbles upon some crisis. It's always big for the hero. It might be simple, it might be saving his dog from dying. Or it might be a meteor approaching the Earth, but it's important to the hero. And the hero is now charged with a sense of urgency. There's always a sense of urgency. You just mentioned, time is speeding up, we need to hurry. So, there's a sense of urgency. The hero begins with the idea that I'm not qualified, so I need to go find the hero that can do something about this. And along the way, they meet all these characters that Joseph Campbell named. Everything from threshold guardians to tricksters to mentors. And so, you'd meet all these people that are either trying to forward your momentum or thwart it. Either way, it's a lesson every time, at every venture. "Wizard of Oz" is probably the most brilliant depiction of the hero's journey ever made. Because all those characters around Dorothy are aspects of her. And the dog is the aspect of her consciousness, right?
MIKKI: And so, the hero goes out on the journey to find the savior, the hero. Ultimately, what do they learn? So much so that it's totally cliché today. And if you see the end of "Plandemic 2" I end with... The last five minutes is all about this. The hero learns the forces within, you are the one. Inevitably, to the degree that all the Avengers movies and hero movies, my wife loves them, my kids love them. And they're always like, "Dad, come watch with us." I'm like, "You're going to watch another one of those damn movies?" They're like, "What do you hate about it?" I'm like, "It's the same story. Just with different names and different characters." I want something unique. And that's the hero's journey, where there's always the third act crescendo. That is, I call it the fiery crescendo. Because that's always when I step out of the room. I watch a movie and I go, "Okay, here we go. Fire crescendo, I get it. I know what's going to happen." So cliché, every single time. And it's cliché, because this is our story.
That is, finally the hero is confronted with, Joseph Campbell often called it, the dragon, which just means the dark force. Darth Vader, or whatever it might be. The hero finally comes face to face in that fiery crescendo. And there's a battle that the hero doesn't think he or she is ready for. It seems to be accurate, because the hero is ultimately beat to the ground to the point of where the audience is left, if they do it right, considering. Oh no, is the person I just invested my last two hours in and fell in love with and fighting for, did they lose? We've seen it enough now that we know in the back of our minds, no, the story doesn't end that way.
AUBREY: Unless it's "Game of Thrones". That's the genius of that, because they killed off a bunch of heroes. You're like, "No!"
MIKKI: Exactly. Because we've reached this point where it's like, you have to reinvent a magic trick because the audience learns. Everyone knows how the trick works now. So now we have to invert it, right? So that's "Game of Thrones" perfect example. But ultimately, what that moment, where the hero is beat to the ground. And there's that suspenseful moment where we think, oh, no, he's dead, she's dead. And then there's that cliché moment where the finger twitches or the eye starts to flutter. They always rise, and it's that moment where they just go... It's like something new is born. They do die, and there's a rebirth that happens. And they look at the dragon with a new power of I'm no longer this meek little creature. You've just awakened something in me.
AUBREY: My own dragon.
MIKKI: That is going to end you. Because you're the darkness and I'm the light. That's how it ends. That's the moment we're about to reach the fiery crescendo, I believe in the story of our human, of our hero's journey. We're about to reach the fiery crescendo. And, it's not going to be pretty. They're trying their hardest to ramp it up, they're trying to hardest to get civil war going, because everything's coming into the light. They're like, how do we distract the people? Will they hit a nuclear button just to get us distracted? They are that crazy. They might. But it's going to get... We're going to have a fire crescendo. And the question is, how many people are going to be rebirthed from that hero's death, and rise up and beat the shit out of that dragon? And how many people are just going to surrender to it? Or join the dark forces? Because they're filled more secure with the dark forces. Because they just want to be on the winning team. That's the question that we're facing right now. And there's people that are joining the dark forces. They're like, I'd rather just go, I don't think they're the good guys at all, but I just want to survive, so I'm going to go with the guys who have the most artillery and the most money. It's a big mistake because the darkness always loses.
AUBREY: That's right. Yeah, in the Star Wars mythos, the resistance, the rebel forces are always wildly outnumbered. That's also another thing. Even if someone is really well trained and capable, that moment happens. Look at the John Wick series. You mentioned dog. Shouldn't have killed John Wick's dog. Shouldn't have fucking killed that guy's dog. There's a lot of head shots that happen over four movies, because that motherfucker got his dog killed. He buried his guns, he was he was happy to be peaceful. Same with Wallace. There's like people who are incredibly capable, but still, the forces arrayed against them are so great that it's like, this is impossible. But something in them drives and says, like the Spartan ethos, with my shield or on it. There's things that are worse than death. And that's another thing I appreciate about Bobby. I said, "Bobby, aren't you worried about getting assassinated?" He just looks at me and like a hero would and said, "There are things worse than death." I'm like, "You're right."
I think we have to, one, reunderstand death. Reunderstand that death is, we're always coming back. Don't worry, you're going to get another game, you're going to get another play. But how are you going to live? What is the memory of who you are that you want to upload into the collective consciousness for the rest of life? Do you want to be the one that stood? Or do you want to be the one that caved? Do you want to watch from that other purview of another dimensional reality and watch what happened because you and not enough other people stood? I don't want that. I don't want that in my memory, in my karma for the rest of the time. If it comes, and it comes down to a final stand, the hero has to reach that point where they're no longer afraid of their death. The death can be the social death, the death could be kinetic death. It could be a variety of different things. But it's like, are you willing to face the end for something greater than yourself?
MIKKI: Most people are waiting until their dog is killed, when we could just act out of choice, act out of love.
AUBREY: Exactly. You could find that inspiration within yourself.
MIKKI: That's right. When I asked you earlier about what would you live and die for, if someone would have gotten to John Wick in such a way that they could have convinced him to lose the love of his dog, then the murder of his dog would have not sent him into action. That's why everything that's worth living and dying for is under attack because once you lose that connection, and love is the greatest most fiercest power. Once you lose that love, once you have nothing that you love in your life, including yourself, there's nothing to fight for. That's where they want people is at a place of going, my relationship's over, I don't own any really assets, that you'll own nothing and be happy. The second part is a lie. You'll own nothing. I don't own any assets. Not have any land to protect. It belongs to some guy I pay rent to. I don't even like him anyway, so whatever.
AUBREY: Yeah, I don't have kids or my kids hate me. My relationship is de-eroticized to the point where it doesn't matter. And all I'm doing is taking pills and watching porn and fuck it.
MIKKI: That's right. Now you understand the stormtroopers, right? I let my kids watch "Star Wars" when they're very young, but we made it a lesson. And one of the lessons was, I pause, and I go, do you think al l those stormtroopers are really bad people? Or do you think perhaps they're so scared of the dark side that they are putting on these masks, and pretending to be on their side just because they want to survive? I asked that question of a six year old, it's interesting the answers you get back. It's interesting what it stimulates in them. But that's where so many people are right now, where... If you can take away everything that they would live and die for, and then they go, now they see the choices between the opponents. They go, okay, you have this opponent over here who appears to, it's not true, but appears to not have the resources that Empire has over here. Even though I don't have anything worth living and dying for, there's still this impulse to live in me.
I mean, check it out, go look at the homeless encampments in Skid Row. You see these people, some of them are missing limbs and teeth, and they're bent over, what keeps them alive? You would think that they'd get that bad, and just be like, just take me. Some do, but very rarely. They'll suffer through on the cold or hot streets, and being abused and robbed and beaten because the impulse of life is so great. Regardless of the quality of their life, they still want to live. That should teach us something. And so, those people who have lost everything worth living and dying for, before they're willing to just go away and die, they'll join the dark side if they think it's going to buy them a little more time in their bodies. The dark side knows that. They know that they'll eventually join them. So you have all these good people out there, good cops behaving...
They came in wanting to protect and serve. And they know they're... But they're going to go off and arrest people for not wearing a COVID mask in a park. "Well, gotta keep my job." You know they go home and go, "God, this is ridiculous. I can't believe I have to do this shit." Look at Australia, they were just tackling women that would dare to be outside without a mask. It was unbelievable to see that these cops that you know damn well, very few of them believe that that is a violation worthy of tackling a woman over. And we have video of that happening over and over and over. So, what does it take for them to operate in such a way that is so polar opposite to their own natural tendencies? You have to let who you are go, otherwise... And that's where they want people. These cops just to be in a place of robotic, just give me orders... That's the famous saying, just following orders. It's very dangerous.
AUBREY: Yeah, one of the things I'm writing about in a book that I'm working on called "The End Game". Its working title right now is "Empire Loves Wars, But Hates Warriors." Because a real warrior will know right and wrong. And real warriors wake up in all the wars and they're like, "I'm not doing this." So many stories of I'm not fucking doing this. You see it in "Avatar". The helicopter pilot's like, fuck this. I'm not bombing these fucking people. This was also shown in "Star Wars" with Finn the stormtrooper who was like, fuck this, I'm out. I think that's also something that gives me a lot of optimism is, it's just interfacing with a lot of operators and cops and real high level military operators is, they haven't... Most of them haven't lost the plot. They're actually holding a deeper sense of value. And I'm not saying all of them are good, I'm not saying, categorically, all military people and operations and cops are all good. Of course not. But the Empire hasn't captured the hearts and minds of the weaponry yet. Now, if they could get robo cops that they could control, then that's a real fucking problem.
But the human spirit lives, especially in what I've seen from our country, lives deep. Deep within. That heroic impulse is an impulse for life, an impulse for good. And that can be steered the wrong way, and you can dehumanize and propagandize and get people to believe they're doing the right thing in this kind of Nazism, fanatic kind of way where you've dehumanized the people so much that the baser instincts can take over. Of course, all that can happen. But I just feel like if Empire tries to make the final move, and turn the police and the military against our own people, they won't. They fucking won't. And that's where in the End Game, it's like, y'all, you got this wrong. You got people wrong. There's goodness that lives in people's, and there's real, real goodness. That's ultimately why we're going to win. And yes, it may seem like they have all the power. Just because we give it to them.
MIKKI: I always say this when people talk about the importance of the Second Amendment, and the people that are against the Second Amendment, which, I can't say I was against it. But I certainly wasn't for it for most of my life, and now I very much am. They'll say how ridiculous are you to a people thinking that should something break out, you're going to defend yourself against the artillery of the military? No one ever challenges that. So you assume the military is going to be on the dark side, is that what you assume? Really? You don't think that some of these people that actually joined the military for the love of their country and for people and all of that, that there's going to be a breaking point for them where they go, no, fuck this. We're going to defend the people. So that's an assumption that the military is on the dark side, and I don't think that it's an accurate assumption.
AUBREY: I agree. I agree completely.
MIKKI: I think it's a dangerous assumption. There's something you reminded me of a minute ago. Oh, how do you know what's true? How do you know when something's truthful?
AUBREY: It's interesting. I feel like truth has a resonance. How do I know if a guitar is in tune or not? I don't play guitar. But somehow the chords don't sound right. My instrument, I've tried my best to clean my instrument and connect with truth. That's what the psychedelic journeys are for me, to connect to something that's true that I can feel in my body. So, the instrument, the radio that I've created has the ability just like we can tell with music, like that's off pitch. We know. If we're watching "The Voice" or something, and something's off pitch, we're like, "That was off pitch." Even if we're not a singer and we couldn't tell what key it is--
MIKKI: That's a great way to describe it. That's a great way to describe it. Because the point I want to get to is we're all given an internal guidance system. And, we have been severed from that in such a way that very few people actually utilize it.
AUBREY: Yeah, we need to be able to ground back in truth again.
MIKKI: So, the resonance of knowing... I love that. That's a beautiful way to describe it. Even if you're not a musician, you can still know when something's in tune. You know when someone's singing out of tune, even if you're not a singer. You can feel the vibration. And, if you ask someone to point to themselves, almost every single time they point here. Point to yourself, they don't go here. They don't do this, they go here. There's something in here to do with the human heart that we have barely scratched the surface to understand. That actually, it's not just a pump. That actually holds intelligence, and is our center point. I learned years ago, I did this workshop that on the first day, I hated it. Because I just thought, oh, this woowoo crap, I don't think anything's happening here. It was a bunch of people sitting in a room, and we would ask ourselves questions, and it was about tuning into a feeling that we got. A subtle, subtle feeling. Which is also why we need to be still and meditate. Because the world is so connected, it's so noisy, and so distracting, that we're moving further and further away of this ability to accomplish what I'm sharing right now.
That is, we would ask ourselves these questions. The idea was just pay attention to this area of your body, and what does it do when you ask yourself this question? And there were a couple of people that were like, "Oh, I can I feel something. This is interesting." From that skeptical point of view, I was like, nothing. My buddy that I was with, one of my producers was like, "Dude, are we coming back tomorrow?" I'm like, "Yeah, we should." Come back the second day, and finally, I had an experience. It was these series of questions, and it took a day just to clear out the noise. In the second day, and in particular, the third day, where by the third day it was very easy. You ask a question, and there's one of two sensations. A contracting and a shrinking and protecting the heart. Or, an expansion, an opening. And I started to think about all those spiritual paintings and stuff I'd saw where the lights bursting out of the heart of the person, and they're doing this and I'm like, that's kind of what it feels like. And that's a yes. Your body is like the instrument panel on your car. It tells you everything you need to know if you just give it a glance, turn the lights on.
So, I've been working on this for a number of years. I'm not even close to having it mastered. But enough where I go, oh, this is the next technology for us to really pay attention to, that literally can save us from being at war with all these ideologies, the opinion of men, is having this place of... Like I said, day three, it'd be, like a woman sitting next to me, "Is Jerry the man that I should marry? Uh-oh." We're like, "What happened?" And sure enough, later I ran into her, she's like, "Yeah, Jerry was a cheater and whatever." Interesting, interesting. And then we'd ask a question, and it'd be like, that's a full yes. What I call a full body yes. The body goes, "Yes, that is a move for you to make." Should I take on this job? Boom, or uh-oh, maybe not? And sometimes it's right in the middle where it's like, I don't know. Maybe not enough data, not enough--
AUBREY: Yeah, maybe not enough awareness of your fears and other things that it's coming up against.
MIKKI: Whatever it might be.
AUBREY: The way that your identities fuse with things. It can get confusing, but the guidance is there.
MIKKI: And I was only three days into this. So I mean, I was a toddler, right? Trying to understand this. Still not even close to mastering it. But, definitely at a place where I can tell you it's real. And when we start to do that, now, we say listen to your heart, people go, "My heart is speaking?" Well, actually, yeah.
AUBREY: Yeah, it's speaking through a whisper. In my lineage, we call it the [inaudible 03:10:20] which is the whisper of the Divine, which whispers through our heart, and out of our heart, and then hopefully filters through our brain.
MIKKI: But you can't hear a whisper when you're surrounded by noise. That's why we have to get silent. You can't see the truth when you're moving too fast. That's why we have to get still. It's crucial that we counter the assault of the technical world, the world of technology, which I love technology. I love innovation. Not against it at all. I think everything has, like I said, the ability to be a weapon or a tool. I look at AI, and I use AI. It's an unbelievable tool, like what it's done for me as a filmmaker, to clean up audio, to create posters, all this stuff. To help me write. I used to have to hire four people. Now, I just go in there ChatGPT, and punch this up for me, make it better. Great, that's way better words than I would have used. Awesome. Thank you, Chat. It's wonderful. And it can totally destroy us.
The choice isn't someone else's. That's the mistake that we make. I hope they use this right so it doesn't destroy us. Who's they in that term? I hope you use it right so it doesn't destroy you. Because it literally can be the thing that frees up people from doing the back breaking jobs that humans should never have done. Why should people go out for 12 hours a day and pick strawberries in the sun, and end up with skin cancer and all that shit that happens to these poor people, for $5 an hour? Could it free us up to the degree that robots are doing all the labor, the slave labor that we shouldn't be doing anyway, so that we can maybe start to have dinner with our families again? So that maybe the fathers can start to play catch in the backyard with their sons again, or the mothers can... That we can be present with our wives. We can be sexually active consistently, where we don't lose that. I see friends around me all the time, they're just like, "We haven't had sex in six months." What? Why? "Just too busy." Too busy. Wow, that just tells me you don't know how to manage your time, and that it's not a big enough priority for you. You don't understand the value of communing with your love in that way, what it does for your soul, and for your connection with each other.
And so, having that awareness that there's this thing we can lean on. So good, we've lost trust in all these exterior authoritarian figures. Awesome. So now we have to come back to here because this is what we feel to receive the infinite intelligence that you and I both call God. But if we don't slow down and quiet down, we'll never be able to hear it and feel it. It's really probably one of the most important things we can do right now. Because then it's no longer, what does my team say about Israel? Okay, I'm all for... What does my team say about Gaza? I'm okay. All we're doing is perpetuating narratives that keep us divided, keep us at war, keep us from evolving, keep us from loving, keep us from living what is intended to be an enjoyable, simple existence here on this beautiful little planet we call Earth. It's actually really easy. But we make it so difficult, by refusing to listen to this.
AUBREY: The heart is the doorway to the kingdom, to the kingdom of heaven, which is here and has always been here. We never got kicked out of Eden. We've been here the whole time. I love you, Mikki.
MIKKI: I love you too, brother.
AUBREY: Thanks for everything you do. Thanks for being not only providing the information that you provide, but being the person behind that that is a person that I can really trust and call a friend and know is a brother. Even if I don't know what you're doing, I know you're doing something. And I'm like, Mikki is doing his thing. And we'll come together and we'll support each other whatever that path, but we're all standing there together. And just to know that and to know you is a great joy in my life. So, thanks for everything you do. Plandemic series. If you guys want to watch "The Great Awakening"--
AUBREY: Fucking recommend watching this more. This is so important to understand the larger story context that we're in, and you do such a great job as a storyteller there.
MIKKI: Thank you, brother. Thank you for all you do. Really, really, appreciate the friend that you are, the brother you are, and the man that you are in the world.
AUBREY: Thank you, brother.
MIKKI: Need more of you.
AUBREY: Yeah, let's go. Love you guys. See you next week.
Thanks for tuning into this podcast with Mikki Willis. Make sure you check out his film, "Great Awakening". You can find it at plandemicseries.com. And, also check out our latest film, "Unsafe and Ineffective" at unsafeandineffective.com We love you guys, keep the faith, keep fighting. We got this. See you next week.
Thanks for tuning into this video. Make sure you hit Subscribe. Follow me at @AubreyMarcus. Check out the Aubrey Marcus Podcast available everywhere. And, leave a comment. Let me know if this video resonated or what else you would like to hear from me in the future. Thank you so much.