Mastering The Seven Planes of Spiritual Development w/ Dr. John Churchill | AMP #424

By Aubrey Marcus August 02, 2023

Mastering The Seven Planes of Spiritual Development w/ Dr. John Churchill | AMP #424
Which of the seven levels of spiritual development have you unlocked? Dr. John Churchill has the deep codes of Tibetan Buddhist psychotechnology stretching all the way back to the first Buddha acknowledged to have exist 15,000 years ago! One of these teachings is the seven fold path of initiation and development that sets a powerful map for understanding and advancing your developmental process. We also discuss the Bodhichitta heart seed that connects mystical lineages, what it means to include and transcend as we integrate our teachings on the spiritual path, and how to “get there by being there” as we develop our own forms of mastery along the seven initiatory levels we dive into throughout the conversation. Holding a doctorate in psychology, John is deeply steeped in psycho-spiritual development, Integral Theory, contemplative studies, Western Esotericism, and has spent over thirty years training in the Indo-Tibetan Mahayana Buddhist lineage. John also stewards the Karuna Mandala Initiatory School (, empowering spiritually grounded, socially conscious, and strategically savvy leadership and warriorship towards the planetary crises we are facing.

AUBREY: Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. For the good of all. All in for all life.

JOHN I'm feeling the presence of Ganesha.

AUBREY: Oh, he's welcoming us.

JOHN Yeah, removal of obstacles.

AUBREY: All right, let's do this. John Churchill, my brother.

JOHN Aubrey.

AUBREY: We're back. And we're deep in a writing process of a book. And, we're going to try not to talk about that book today that we're writing, "From Empire to Kingdom'. Because what I want to talk to you about today was something that was wildly provocative. And that's the starting point of the conversation, when we've been talking since the last podcast, and you mentioned that there was a tradition, a Buddhist tradition called the Bon people who actually identify a Buddha that was from 18,000 years ago, which is almost pre-Atlantean from when we know the classic Atlantean civilization. And, prior even to some of the oldest structures that we've discovered, like Göbekli Tepe and some of the things that Graham Hancock has explored. But it shows this kind of continuity of high-level spiritual development as like a planetary system that awakens and then goes to sleep, and then reawakens again. I have it written down here, it was a Buddha [inaudible 02:52]. It stayed in a continuous... There's been a continuous lineage that people just don't talk about, because it doesn't fit the mainstream narrative of conventional consensus history. And, this idea of the continuity of higher level spiritual ideals.

JOHN That's right. Yeah, we need to take a planetary perspective on the rhythmic movement of great teachers through old traditions. So within the planetary Dharma, when we're referring to a Buddha, we're referring to the same phenomena, of a teacher that is also a Christ, or a Messiah, or whatever the other traditions, the other versions we have across the planet. Which is essentially, if we understand both what the word Messiah and Christ actually mean, like the word Christos, essentially means initiate. So what we're talking about is an ancient, esoteric, but also it's been hidden, because of the war with Empire over the last few thousand years. But a planetary initiatory tradition that had the ability to train many of the [inaudible 04:18] right up to that level of development. So the Bon, so Buddhism has five main schools within it. Four are the schools related to Shakyamuni Buddha, who came from India and who was born 2500 years ago. And there's one school in Tibet, the Bon--

AUBREY: And that's Siddhartha?

JOHN That's Siddhartha, that's right. Exactly. So Siddhartha, technically, the term Buddha refers to a particular level of initiation. He's functioning and teaching from what we call the Buddhic plane.

AUBREY: And we're going to get the map of these seven different levels of development/layers of the auric field of the planet. It's very interesting. So, we're going to walk through that path. But what you're talking about is the fourth layer, the Buddhic plane, the Christic plane.

JOHN The plane of the Tzadik within your tradition.

AUBREY: Right.

JOHN Exactly. And, just to turn back to the Bon's teacher and Atlantis, within the esoteric tradition, it's understood that the Atlantean cycle was probably about 100,000-year cycle. So, what we know as Atlantis, The fall of Atlantis was the last like dying process of a whole cycle that's 100,000 years. Now--

AUBREY: Right. And so that's for people who locate, that's like 12,800 years ago, when the flood... When the Greenland ice sheets melted and the flood came. And then we think, oh yeah, Atlantis was then. Well, obviously not then. That's when it died.

JOHN Final death, right. But within the esoteric tradition--

AUBREY: And then a lot of the megaliths, actually, just to mention this. A lot of the megaliths were post-Diluvian, post after the flood. And what Graham Hancock is saying is, these megaliths were the survivors of Atlantis that went around the world, and were like, we need to encode, especially in some of these... We need to encode a memory of what happened with these astrological symbols and signs, and also, memories transmitted through like our brother Matias de Stefano, who remembers the warnings of actually Atlantis turning empirical in its nature.

JOHN That's right.

AUBREY: Which actually, because of the empirical turning and the way that they were wielding spiritual power, they actually facilitated their own demise--

JOHN It was part of it, for sure.

AUBREY: Which we find ourselves in actually another similar situation now.

JOHN It's a karmic echo of exactly the same situation. It is. With all the same beings reincarnating and the same cult-like cultures reincarnating. So, if we understand it's 100,000 years of civilization, many, many, many Buddhas. Many, many Tzadiks. The final initiatory schools of our planet, our planetary initiative system, was generating many, many, many...

AUBREY: And the universality of this is also super important, because for a long time, I studied as my primary study, the Toltec tradition. I spent time with Don Miguel Ruiz, who is a Tzadik, who is operating from the Buddhic plane. I know that, I felt it in my body. And you could say that many of the people who spend time with Ram Dass would say the same thing about him. So, in Don Miguel Ruiz and the Toltec tradition, the Tzadik was called the nagual. And the nagual... So there's different levels of nagual, and there's the highest probably level of nagual. But, Nagual was the recognition of someone who is able to through their own intent, master, at least the mental plane.

JOHN It had seven...

AUBREY: They don't actually illuminate... But they had, so if you go to Teotihuacan, they had an initiatic path that mimicked what a lot of these different levels were. So, you would go to different places in there.

JOHN Is that [inaudible 08:38] or Kulkan?

AUBREY: No, that was more of the Aztec. So Toltecs predated that. It's an even older lineage than the Aztecs and the Mayans. So, a lot of those are Aztec and Mayan deities they didn't ascribe to. But they had an initiatic path that went through many of the different levels. My understanding, and we're going to get to this this map that you have. My understanding is that to be a nagual, you have to master the third level at the very least, which is the mental plane. I don't know if mastering the Christic Buddhic plane was a part of their path. But it very well may have been because, frankly, I know by what I felt in my body, anthro-ontologically from what I could feel in my own heart, that Don Miguel Ruiz was operating from that. Whether that was a part of their teaching, or whether that certain naguals who had mastered the third level, which is the mental plane, sometimes broke into the Buddhic plane.

JOHN Yeah, for sure.

AUBREY: For sure that happened.

JOHN You have a good heart, you're going to naturally open into that. My sense is, is that the whole mythology of the rainbow serpent, which comes I think, as [inaudible 09:54] and Kulkan. And I'm sure there's probably a similar concept.

AUBREY: Sure. I mean, this was the genesis, the dendrites of the healthy parts of Aztec and Mayan tradition. The Toltecs were the source point of that.

JOHN So, a little context. Both the high Andean people and the Tibetans are the Atlantean in terms of the physical body, right? And so, if we see the rainbow metaphor as part of the Andean, South American dharma, that's pointing to this rainbow, these seven layers, and is pointing to the universality of a solar... This is a solar recognition. That's why it's universal, is because it's the sun.

AUBREY: It's Ram it's Apollo.

JOHN It's the seven rays that emanate from, because within these traditions, including the Western tradition, the sun is understood to be a living being.

AUBREY: Yeah, I mean, in an Ayahuasca journey with actually someone that we mutually know very well, Hamilton Souther, he actually started singing icaros and called in the sun as a being. And this was early in my path. I mean, not super early, but early enough, 2014, which is, I don't know, however many... Nine years ago. And I hadn't had a lot of encounter with someone who was intentionally calling in beings. Now, I started my Ayahuasca path in 2010 and I experienced a lot of things, but Hamilton was able to actually speak English and actually communicate what the fuck he was doing. So, the sun was one of the beings that he called in, and I recognized, holy shit, this isn't just a cosmological phenomenon of a star that has a particular quality. Yes, it is that, and it's something else. Just like we're a body and we're a soul. The sun is a celestial body--

JOHN: Soul is sol. So, your soul, my soul, we are solar beings. When we awaken to that level, we enter like solar culture. And frankly, we enter galactic culture, because there are many souls. So, you begin to interact with extra dimensional beings, which probably in your medicine work you've done, who are also functioning at the level of soul in other parts of this amazing body of God.

AUBREY: Yeah. I had a podcast with Zach Bush, where he talked about there's phenomenon that occur in each cell that actually mimic like the nuclear fusion that happens in the sun, and that we're having mini nuclear reactions creating energy within the cellular structure. And obviously, he's a doctor. So it's beyond my exact--

JOHN Mini-nuclear.


JOHN Well, we're photonic, at the level of photons. We don't think of that in medicine but we have a photon structure, which is deeper... I think that might be deeper than electrons, where actually, you and I sitting here right now are flaming.

AUBREY: And we're producing light in a certain spectrum, and so, the energy that we're producing. So, he makes that correlation, which is super interesting. And then, we're also water beings as well, mostly water. I had a crazy experience. So, I'm in Turkey, I'm in Bodrum, and we decide that we're going to have dinner on the dock that's going out to a bay. And there's a big like heavy mountain range, full moon night. It's the bay, so the water is calm like glass. We don't hear it, we don't notice it. It's glassy, calm water. And then the full moon rises, and as soon as it rises above the mountain range, the water just starts going... We know that the moon affects the tides, we get that. But to actually see that. For an hour, we were sitting in this calm bay. And then the moment, and we noticed it, like, "Wow, the moon's rising." And as soon as the moon crests above the mountain range, the bay just starts rocking, and we're like, holy shit, this is a real phenomenon. And so, of course, it's affecting the waters in our body. Of course, like my stepfather, who was on the SWAT team in Compton would all of him and his fellow officers when it was a full moon night, they strapped their vests on a little tighter, and they looked at each other like, tonight's going to be crazy. Because there's something that's happening to the waters in our body which we're 70% water. So understanding that the connection between the sun and our solar energy and the lunar--

JOHN Sun and photons... So, can I speak to this?


JOHN So, if our solar body is the fourth of seven bodies, it's also the fourth tissue of the planet. But the astral tissue, which is liquid... So, with your physical body, your liquids resonate with the astral plane, with the effect of the moon, right? And so, you have both... That is the whole astral dimension that isn't just like some other dimension, that's how it interacts with the physical. And then you have the light coming from the sun. Now, the light coming from the sun is at... From the moon is the sun. So if you think of the feeling of a full moon shining on water, you get the sense of the Buddhic layer of the astral plane that cleans the astral plane, and brings that like Christic love energy down into the tissues. Does it make--

AUBREY: Yeah, it does. It does. And astra, I never even really thought of this but astra is Latin for star. So, astral, of course pertains to the stars in a certain way.

JOHN: Well, I mean, the planets. That whole layer of activity. If you think of the astral plane, the astral plane is called the cosmic liquid plane. It has a viscosity to it. So, all the planets that are moving through the solar logos, through the solar system, are creating waves of astral, like ripples. What astrology does, astrology is tracking the movements of the astral to get a sense of the currents. And obviously in astrology you have the sun, you have the moon, which is always doing this thing. But we also have these deeper astral energies which are astral archetypes that are weaving through our psyche, but also through the world the whole time.

AUBREY: Yeah, it's interesting, I've never... Because I think of the astral, I've been a psychonaut since I was 18, 24 years, and I've never been into astrology particularly. Nor have I been particularly interested in astronomy either. It just hasn't been my thing. But I'm certainly interested in the psychonautic path, so my experience with the astral is, oh yeah, I get there all the time in medicine, and there's all kinds of beings that are there, there's all kinds of things. So, I'm accessing it but not actually finding... I've never actually until this podcast right now, recognized the correlation with the astral that I'm in psychedelic and the psychedelic world with the astral in the actual physical world.

JOHN: So, the reason that is, is there are harmonics of the astral. Major harmonics. So, in the tradition, you have to obliterate the first level of harmonic which is particularly around our planet, like an astral field around our planet. When you can permeate through that, you get to a planetary, it gets cleared out. It's no longer a mythic, magical... You're basically into a astral dimension that is multi-planet, like planetary civilizations or stellar systems. You access, you get outside of what the tradition calls the ring pass not, which is like a developmental ring that when we're mature enough to join cosmic civilization, we enter the cosmic astral.

AUBREY: And then the access to what Matias would call the Federation--

JOHN: So, Matias has access to that level of the astral which isn't... Most shamanic practices are still stuck within the gravitational astral field of our planet.

AUBREY: Which is, they would call the lower astral, which is a pretty, it's a fucking jungle. It's a jungle because the planet is a jungle, right? Like ultimately, fundamentally, there's this amazing amount of beauty here, and you can access the planetary celestial in a way. But nonetheless, the lower astral of our planet is, it's intense. There's a lot of darkness, there's a lot of light.

JOHN: So, we're at war. So, there is I think a quarantine, like to contain that. Because the solar level of the astral which is where you'd gain access to that kind of multi-planetary system, you gain access to that based on a set level of initiation.

AUBREY: In the psychoanalytic realm, we'd call that when you reach that, higher astral, you actually start to make a distinction and you call it the celestial. And the celestial plane is where you're actually accessing the star beings like the Pleiadeans, or the beings that channel through Paul Selig, those types of beings.

JOHN: That's all the Buddhic--

AUBREY: The angel, archangel planes.

JOHN: That's right.

AUBREY: So, those would be in this system, the Buddhic plane, roughly.

JOHN: And above, but you don't get access to that, unless you're accessing the Buddhic level of the astral.

AUBREY: Yeah, yeah.

JOHN: I think of music. It's tones, octaves, playing chords that open up octaves of those dimensions. And as you mature, you're not just playing chopsticks. You start playing--

AUBREY: Chopin?

JOHN: Chopin, yeah.

AUBREY: All right, so let's go through this map, and let's allow it to take us wherever we want to go. But the first layer, which is actually, they call it the seventh because it goes actually, counts down not up.

JOHN: Yeah, we're actually at the bottom of--

AUBREY: The bottom of it. So the seventh level, which is really the first level in a way, but we're counting down, remember. So, it's the physical?

JOHN: That's right.

AUBREY: So, talk to me about this physical level tissue layer plane of existence.

JOHN: So every tradition has a term for this. I love the Hindu term, the Annamaya Kosha. Basically, the food sheath.

AUBREY: The food sheath?

JOHN: The food sheath. So, this is Aubrey and John that's made of like that beef that we had. It could be beefy, it could be like vegan. But even if you're a breatharian, your physical body had to have been built by some kind of food. And so, this--

AUBREY: You give me ribeye energy, I'll tell you that. I feel a little bit more like sirloin, like strip steak. I'm feeling strip steak.

JOHN: I think you're more cashew butter.

AUBREY: Oh, boy. I'd say--

JOHN: I've seen how much cashew butter you eat.

AUBREY: I do like cashew butter. I'd say our brother Kyle Kingsbury, he's more of a T-bone kind of guy. I'll take the strip steak, you can be a ribeye.

JOHN: Okay, so our planet Earth, so let's call her, we can call her two terms for her. Gaia Sophia. So, Gaia would be more of her like actual meat body, and Sophia would be her Buddhic layer. She that we're trying to all birth together would be Sofia. Does that make sense?


JOHN: Okay.

AUBREY: Again, but Sophia is not part of the physical plane?

JOHN: No, that's Gaia. So Gaia, her physical body is the physical, it's the mineral dimension of our planet, it's the sacred geometry of physical reality. Now, the fourth... So, the first initiation, the first initiatic path pertains to that level. So what are we learning? We're learning to get on it. So, you're learning to master the physical body.

AUBREY: Right, total human optimization.

JOHN: So, Hatha Yoga, martial arts, so you gotta master that level, you master food consumption, you master activity. What else? You master pranayama, you master the breath. And, you master, which is difficult for all of us, like the combination of it is the mastery of rhythm, the mastery of the calendar. See, until we're actually on a sacred calendar all together to complete, to totally master that initiation. Because you can master most of it, you can master like five... As long as you're mastering more than half of it, you can go on to the next thing.

AUBREY: And it's interesting, because some of these things like breathwork can actually help you master further planes above this. And something like sex for example, you have to master the physical, but actually if you take it to its ultimate tantric potential, you can actually unlock even the Buddhic plane which is the fourth layer.

JOHN: So, these are like, where do you begin this practice? So, you begin the practice of sexual yoga at the first initiation. Within the mystery schools, it was like, yeah, you're 18, Aubrey, John, it's time for you to go--

AUBREY: It's basically like learn how to eat pussy.

JOHN: And learn how to move. Well, that--

AUBREY: That's the first level of the physical plane, right?

JOHN: I think that's the first lesson in that curriculum. I think the second lesson is how to circulate pleasure through your whole body mind.

AUBREY: I'm trying to understand where the distinction of the physical and when we're going to the emotional. So, still at the physical, you're still talking about moving the energy.

JOHN: Okay, so the physical plane has seven sub planes, right? So this is harmonic. The first three sub planes, physical, water, which resonates with the astral body. And, the third, like metabolic energy, fire. But the top, well, put it this way, the top four levels of the physical plane are actually--

AUBREY: Ethereal.

JOHN: Are etheric. So--

AUBREY: Yeah, so it says here there's density, liquid, gaseous.

JOHN: That's right, gaseous.

AUBREY: So it's like earth, water, air.

JOHN: Basically, it's fire.

AUBREY: So, gaseous is fire. Air/fire.

JOHN: We've gotta find a better term. I don't...

AUBREY: Yeah, but roughly, like air/fire. And then there's the etheric, before levels of the etheric. They all participate in the physical, which is--

JOHN: That's the physical.

AUBREY: Which is interesting, because it actually sets a pretty high bar for mastering the physical plane.

JOHN: Well, mastery of the physical in my lineage involves... Like you can do breatharianism, that's easy. No, no. It's not a... Because if we're photonic, if you understand that there's an etheric level that resonates with like... Then the whole understanding of what nourishment is, when you install a different operating system, then you can actually extract that level of--

AUBREY: So, there's levels of mastery of the physical which would make you almost like a physical incarnated deity, just from mastering the physical?

JOHN: Golden age. When we think of, let's say, even in the Bible, which isn't golden age. We have like Abraham living 700 years. These guys knew how to live. This is directly related to that tech. Now, remember that like within the golden age, and we'll have to ask Matias. I'm curious, like he probably remembers different sections in Atlantis, where lifespan was probably really large, and then it slowly shrunk over that 100,000-year period to 30 fucking years. Right now--

AUBREY: There's some debate about that stat, that some people actually lived longer in those older days, but nonetheless, regardless.

JOHN: If you knew that. So, back to--

AUBREY: But yeah, I mean, he does talk about there was... I mean, there was also different types of beings. There was blue beings that were... Like Isis--

JOHN: Because the astral was still open and because the Buddhic plane mystery schools were operational, we were part of galactic federation. There was a lot of--

AUBREY: Which is, he describes someone like Isis, Isis was not just an idea of an amalgamation of archetype. Isis was a being that lived for hundreds of years that was blue and wore a veil, and carried this energy that was present.

JOHN: Yeah, she could be representative of a particular star system, just like we might have an ambassador of England here in America, you would have an ambassador from like the Pleiades, or the [inaudible 28:42], or particularly the Syrians who have a lot of influence on our initiatory system.

AUBREY: Yeah, the Orions. Yeah, all right.

JOHN: So what we're saying is, the mastery of sexual energy is a mastery of lifeforce. So, first initiation would have a number of departments; sexual yoga department, physical yoga department, diet, calendar, exercise, and probably martial arts.

AUBREY: Yeah, awakening the warrior, awakening the sacred fight, the sacred, which is in all of us.

JOHN: Maybe even seven departments, all those. They'd be seven, right? That's the first initiation.

AUBREY: Man, it's like you could spend your whole life just trying to master, and it would be a well lived life.

JOHN: Well lived life.

AUBREY: And just think how much collectively, we're all failing to master the physical plane on this planet, it's wild. I mean, sexuality has been degraded to such a point. Diet and fat has been degraded to such a point. Fitness has been degraded. And interestingly, like in the media now, some of the more radical kind of leftist mainstream media is trying to say that all physical fitness is some reversion to Nazism and fascism. They're calling gyms fascist training centers. And it's fucking crazy, right?

JOHN: It's so sad. Who doesn't love to like dance and move and celebrate?

AUBREY: Exactly, it's this crazy--

JOHN: The sacred, it's the sacred animal.

AUBREY: It's so crazy what's actually happening now. But anyways, that's only a subsection of this crazy world.

JOHN: Let me just add a dimension to this, which is interesting. Within the esoteric tradition, it was understood that there was a cycle before Atlantis. So, if Atlantis is 100,000, and I'm not a historian of the hierarchy, so I'd to have to like talk to some of my companions who are part of the history department. But essentially, the first initiation, all of what we're describing, was what we, you and I, and everybody's listening mastered in Lemuria. So, Lemurian times was related to the training of the physical animal, and the sacredness of the physical animal. Atlantis as a cycle was like, we were learning... So this is part of our planet waking up. So she wakes up her physical nervous system of which we are kind of the... Physically. And then the next level was the astral. So, the Atlantean cycle we were learning for 100,000 years, and let's just take that as like, we were learning about the astral, We were learning about that whole...

AUBREY: So, is the astral plane number six, which they call the emotional?

JOHN: Yes, exactly.

AUBREY: All right, so we're moving from the physical to the astral slash what would be called the emotional plane. And it's also called the cosmic liquid.

JOHN: That's right. And if you think of the... So, if the if the physical is mineral intelligence, the astral is plant intelligence. It is the fact that you and I, at some level, were plants. I'm a rose.

AUBREY: I'm a rose.

JOHN: Fucking Rosicrucians, brother.

AUBREY: Let's go. I'm also a cinnamon.

JOHN: A cinnamon?

AUBREY: So those are the two plants that I've dieted. And in the Amazonian tradition, the diet involves you taking the spirit of a plant and bringing it into your astral body.

JOHN: You're drinking it in a liquid, which is the water--

AUBREY: And bathing in it in all forms. And then, in deep meditation and isolation, you bring that energy of the plant within your body, and then you get the gift of being able to sing the medicine of that plant, and emanate the medicine of that plant in your being.

JOHN: So, it's important to know that that was also a part of our European initiatory system. So, the European initiatory system, let's say the druids, you got like three levels. The first level essentially would be the bod. So, learning to master sex is also learning to master like music.

AUBREY: And dance.

JOHN: Second layer, they would call the ovates. So they had particular interest in tree medicine. And they did the dietas, the tree dietas that you're talking about. That was the whole shamanic level of our indigenous European culture.

AUBREY: So, you're talking druids. But probably there's more than druids. Druids were probably, at the least druids and whatever other--

JOHN: So, what we're saying is, this is planetary tech.

AUBREY: Like the Germanics probably had a different name for druids, but they probably had a similar--

JOHN: Oh, in terms of that grade? Yeah, for sure. Well, the druids are the planetary tradition. Like think of it as one tradition.

AUBREY: So druids, tzadiks, whatever the Germanic thing is--

JOHN: Think of it from a planetary perspective. One tradition with an esoteric dimension, but with one tradition with an esoteric unfolding. Because it's planetary, its biological. It's not just philosophical. It's actually how our planet as a being is constructed. And our traditions are like enzymatic processes within the body of a goddess.

AUBREY: Beautiful, beautiful. Alright, bard level one druids. Bard level two--

JOHN: Level two, ovates.

AUBREY: So, like the shamans that we're talking about, that are doing tree dietas, and that's what everybody knows about the druids, is their connection with nature.

JOHN: The mushrooms and you're in nature, level three, mental plane, druid. So, the druids were the learned ones because you're learned, you understood the books. The druids knew Greek. Greek was their language for the educated druid class. And, they were also the judges. So, the courts of law were run by people of at least the third initiation.

AUBREY: So now we're moving. So, there's the emotional plane--

JOHN: So, let's just stick with the emotional plane for a little while.

AUBREY: The emotional plane is, and just to locate that real quick. So the emotional plane, level six. Again, we're counting down from seven. Emotional plane, level six, the astral plane. This is what the ovates were working with, because they were doing their plant dietas. It's where the shamans would be located. The Amazonian shamans would be located in that emotional plane, masters of that emotional plane. And then there's another level that's the druidic level, probably the Tzadik level, probably the nagual level--

JOHN: The beginning of that.

AUBREY: The beginning of that, which is the mastery of the mental plane. Which is master. Tzadik is master, nagual is master. In the Toltec, it's the master who can paint the masterpiece of his own life.

JOHN: Okay, so think of it in terms of a university, because it is a university. It's a planetary University. So when you get to third grade, you just got a master's degree. Then you got a doctoral degree. Doctoral degree is fourth grade. And then we're going up to like the chancellor of the university. And then that ends the planetary cycle and then you access a whole other hierarchy--

AUBREY: A whole other level. All right, well, let's go back. So we're going back to plane six, the emotional plane. [inaudible 36:42]

JOHN: So, practices would be, there's many different variations of ways in because again, what we've described as for that first initiation, we could spend a whole life doing it.

AUBREY: Yeah, in the physical. For sure.

JOHN: It's the same thing with the astral. So we're going to have, this is like mastering devotion. Real emotional devotion. So, our emotional body becomes completely cleaned. And it becomes like the emotional body of a mother black panther committed to her cubs.

AUBREY: Powerful image, yeah. Otorongo.

JOHN: Right. That level of devotion through our whole emotional body. Devoted to what? To the next level up. And, to her cubs, which is like, we're all cubs, right? That level, that layer, I guess it would also include astral projection, lucid dreaming, medicine work, because it is--

AUBREY: So, magic is starting to come in in the astral level and the--

JOHN: That's a great point. So, the term magic means imagination. The astral is the level of the imagination. So all the practices related to imaginal practice, so lucid dreaming is imaginal. It's in the world of images, right? A lot of plant medicine is in the world of images. Visualization practice, like live your best life and visualize having yourself getting a red car, magic. Group ritual, it's all happening at the imaginal level. The imaginal layer is also the astral layer. The way that we control our emotions is through image. If you envision yourself to be a black panther, you're a black panther.

AUBREY: And, envision means, through my body I envision God, as a classic translation of the text. So, to envision you have to feel it. And this is what Joe Dispenza teaches all the time. You don't just envision yourself, well, as a picture. You feel yourself into the vision. You actually emotionally create resonance with that image. So it's not just pure visualization with your pictures, it's also the feeling of it. Like, you just described becoming a black panther in your recent Ayahuasca. I've become a triceratops. It's not that I envisioned--

JOHN: I become a giant spider.

AUBREY: We're in a battle.

JOHN: I've become Ganesha, and you're inside of me.

AUBREY: Yeah, because I'm fucking you. Because I'm a giant, even bigger than Ganesha.

JOHN: Fuck! No!

AUBREY: Reminds of sword in the stone where Merlin and Madam Mim were having their--

JOHN: It reminds me of some of the stories I've heard from--

AUBREY: From Hamilton as well. Alright, but what's interesting to me here is, you would think that this practice is mental and emotional.

JOHN: Okay, let me just... The practice has seven layers to it, okay? So, there's a physical dimension, I guess, which is, if you want to be the black panther at least like physically, you've got to physically maybe move like her. Then the [inaudible 40:26] would be gotta feel how her emotional body would feel. Mental level would be like start thinking.

AUBREY: There's actually a panther crawl that you do in Animal Flow, which is very, like interesting. You just actually move in this particular way. I think it's called a panther crawl, or is it called... But it's a cat, it's a big cat anyways.

JOHN: So then you would have the Buddha, which would be like... And then you would have an imaginal... What you and I know as the imagination would be just a visual representative of how to behave, how to feel, how to think, and how to be devoted in that way. So, envisionment imagination refers to a full blown, multi-dimensional astral body experience of that particular form. Does that make sense?

AUBREY: Yep, yep, yep.

JOHN: Cool.

AUBREY: So, it begins here in the... Just like the physical that can take many...Like sex, for example, can traverse the dimension. So can the imaginal realm which really--

JOHN: We include transcend.

AUBREY: Exactly, it goes all the way up.

JOHN: So, when we build our new planetary initiatory school, which we will, the first band of education, which if we were going at it full tilt, we could probably get through in a year or so. If that's all you are doing, was like training the physical body, eating right, having great sex, doing your breathing practices, we'd move through that. Then we would move into second grade. And if you were doing that in a committed way, and all of those pieces full time, like frankly, college. I mean, this is where we put it into an educational model.

AUBREY: Like college could or should be, but yes.

JOHN: Well, like K-12, and then... Then we move through that whole piece. And college actually would be this third level, which is then we get into the mental--

AUBREY: Knowledge.

JOHN: Knowledge. That's right. So the feeling of that, of the third level, which is what we're saying is druid or mastery, which is actually just the third initiation of seventh, but you're a master compared to most folk. That's got a strong hermetic feel to it. That is the poly--

AUBREY: Polymath.

JOHN: Polymath. The truth is, we're all polymaths.

AUBREY: Of course. Some are just more profound.

JOHN: Well, if you're at the third degree, you can see it.

AUBREY: Yep. And then you start being able to draw connections between various different fields. That's the value. That's what Robert Greene would call the DaVinci effect. Why DaVinci was such a great and revolutionary thinker was because he was a polymath that actually could draw wisdom from what he knew of sacred geometry, what he knew of all of the fucking mathematics, to engineering, to architecture, to all of this other shit. He was able to draw a connection, the painting and all of this, and it all wove together in a way. And so, that would be mastery on the mental plane in a way.

JOHN: It would be mastery on the mental plane, but moving in to the Buddhic level of the mental plane. So, you're now in the next octave. And once you hit the fourth note of that mental, then you're getting... So, in the tradition what happens then, is your multi-paradigmatic cognition comes online.

AUBREY: So, in this sheet I have in front of me, it says, there's higher clairaudience planetary psychometrics, high clairvoyance, discrimination, spiritual discernment, response to group, spiritual telepathy. So, this is another higher level of magic, where actually clairaudience, psychometry, clairvoyance, imagination, emotional idealism was actually located first in the emotional plane, but it reaches a higher fruition in the mental plane along with the knowledge and along with the integration, including and transcending. Now, here's a question. It seems like some people try to skip any level of mastery at the physical, emotional and jump and bypass to the mental, and just try to learn shit. But I actually don't find them ever to be wise. Not that I don't listen to them. But if they don't embody wisdom in their body, or in their emotional body, then I don't actually think of them as a wise man or wise woman.

JOHN: So. if we intuit let's say, they haven't passed 50% of the class... Because again, what we've said is you could actually spend a whole life. You could spend. So, you absolutely right. If you've let's say, completed the first three lessons of the physical and not made it to the etheric level, and you jump to doing meditative practices, that would be a bypass. But if you'd made it to fourth lesson of the... You'd be able to start working with meditative practices in a safe way, because it isn't... Yes, the grades are linear, but we're all playing music. So, there's a room within that for chord playing, particularly because we don't have those initiatory schools. So if you come back, and in a prior lifetime, you were learning a lot of third grade mastery material, meditative material, if you weren't careful, you would ignore the first two classes because you would be like, "Yeah, what are these guys doing? This is like kinder--"

AUBREY: Right. And you would try to claim some spiritual materialism hierarchy that, oh, I don't need to worry about this because I got this next thing, instead of appreciating like someone like my brother, Aaron Alexander, like goddamn, he is fucking mastering this physical world, and I bow to his mastery of this dimension.

JOHN: That's right.

AUBREY: And that's what the actual appropriate response would be to someone who has actually loosened the grip of the ego.

JOHN: So, my mentor, one of my mentors, kind of philosophical mentor, Ken Wilber, he would articulate what we call the integral level of development. And that integral level of development is essentially the lowest level cognitive operating system that you need to operate at that third initiation, in order not to fall foul to the very processes that you're describing. Because once you realize that these are levels of our being, that they're musical notes and it isn't transcend and exclude, it's include and transcend. But that cognitive way of understanding hierarchy, it takes a certain level of psychological maturity. Once you get there, we work out, oh, cleaning up, waking up, growing up, opening up and showing up, these are all dimensions of the path and you can't just wake up and not clean up your psychological material. So, that level of understanding is super important for all of us, which is really appreciating that there are seven colors. And it's not that indigo is better than red. You know what I'm saying?

AUBREY: Yeah, yeah, I get it. I think actually, so, I've been, we've been in a deep exploration together. And I've been in a deep exploration with Marc Gafni, and a deep exploration with some amazing minds. And I mean, I think I have a good intellect. But actually, I think the reason that I'm able to hang and actually have this intellectual, conversational discourse with masters, I mean, you guys are masters of bodies of knowledge, is not because I'm particularly learned, although I have as a psychology major. I've read and I do read. But it's not that, it's just that I have enough schooling in the physical plane, and extensive schooling in the astral plane, so that actually, when I'm accessing the mental plane, there's a foundation that allows me through my body of what I can feel, and what I can actually understand, that actually makes it easier for me to actually grasp some of the mental concepts, because I can hear something, and I can feel the truth of it. Because I'm attuned to my body, because I'm attuned to my astral body, I can feel the truth of it in a way that it lands easier.

JOHN: That's right.

AUBREY: And so, I'm able to grasp information faster. So I guess this is a message to those people who are more bookish. Yes, that's important. But actually, if you go back and start mastering your physical and your emotional, it'll actually be easier for you to grapple with some of these mental concepts in a way.

JOHN: So actually, in the tradition, the seed in every one of these lineages is what we in the Buddhist tradition would call bodhichitta. Now, bodhichitta is the heart seed. And it basically, exists as a physical feeling. as an emotional feeling. But most importantly, it begins the level of mind, which is, I will awaken for the sake of the whole. Now, once you put that program in, which is essentially the Christic Buddhic--

AUBREY: So we're now talking level four?

JOHN: Yes, but the thing is, you can be... You get on the path the moment that thought actually arises right now, because--

AUBREY: So, you don't have to reach the schooling of level, the mastery of level four, but the seed of level four exists.

JOHN: We don't have these schools right now. So if you're out in the field, which all our friends who are listening, if we begin to and some point on your journey, you decided I will do this for the sake of the whole, that's the birth of Christ in the manger, that is the bodhichitta, the seed of Bodhi. Now, once you've planted the seed, it will resonate the fourth... Even if you're not at the fourth layer, it will resonate the fourth at the mental plane, astral plane and physical plane. Now, one of the ways the fourth functions is what we call technically, direct valid non-conceptual cognition, intuition. So, once you apply that seed and you cultivate it, you'll start smelling shit and smelling truth. Even if you're not at the fourth initiation, the fourth will resonate that tone, that note will resonate, because you'll know truth at both the physical level and at the emotional level. You know what's true.

AUBREY: It's interesting, the podcast that came out prior to ours, which, we're moving forward in time, because this is going to come out in two weeks. The podcast before it was with Shawn Chester, and all we were talking about is how that seed has been watered and nourished. And it was like a two-hour, like a recruitment for team life, team God, right? It was like, we were just talking about how beautiful the deepening commitment and the watering of that seed has been, and how important, and actually clarifying that is to all levels of our life. And it was really interesting to just understand and make the correlation that that's really what we were celebrating. And we actually, there's many more things we could have talked about, actually. But we were so excited about feeling that seed and recognizing it in each other, and recognizing how deeply we're intending to water it. And it's not that we've landed ourselves in the Buddhic plane, and in the level, but it's informing all of the levels and actually drawing us forward on this path where we know that we're moving in the right direction.

JOHN: It's inevitable. So, this is the hot seed of the world, that our hearts which is the fourth level know is possible.

AUBREY: The more beautiful world our hearts know is possible. Charles nailed it.

JOHN: That is the imagery, that is the rallying cry, at all the levels. Because once we have the imagery, the astral imagery of a planetary civilization, of a garden, a garden kingdom... Like look at the fucking imagery that's fed to us through Empire. But once that imagery becomes the imagery of that world...

AUBREY: And this is what "Avatar 1" did, and "Avatar" got a lot of things wrong in the story. But one of the things they got right is they gave us an image of the kingdom. They gave us an image of the kingdom as garden. When they're in the bioluminescence of the night, and Eywa seeds are floating by which is the feeling of Spirit of God of actually reaching out through this, and the beauty of it, and the savagery of it, but all was celebrated in a sacred way. I think that image in and itself was, it affected people so deeply, because it was one of the first images, and it was a fictional image. But it was an image of the Garden of Eden. It was an image of this place that we know is true and possible, and that we may have felt in certain places and sacred places in our own Earth. But it evoked that feeling. And that's what was so transformative about that movie. Now, of course, then they have everybody fighting and going to--

JOHN: Same old story.

AUBREY: Same old story. It turned into the same old story, but there was images of a more beautiful world that we were able to see. And now it's like, how do we actually translate that into the image of seeing our own Earth in that way? And that's what we're doing in our book, is we're talking about how we actualize the kingdom. We're throwing a festival called Arkadia, which is a festival of a more beautiful world. So, we're creating an ethos, which is in Area 15 in Las Vegas, which is, Vegas is as much Empire as anything is Empire. But the thing I like about Vegas, is it's obvious that all anybody cares about is money. It's not hidden in this virtue signaling. It's not hidden in these value propositions that are false and lies. No, Vegas knows it's about hedonism and money. And that's the only thing that fucking matters in Vegas. So, in the obviousness of it, you can relax.

JOHN: So, Vegas has an astral dimension to it, right? So it isn't just a physical city, it's an astral city as well. And once you... I know that you get. Once you see that, it's like, oh, it's like, it's an astral city.

AUBREY: Yeah, it's like a planet from "Star Wars" but it's actually telling you the truth always. You know what this bar is. You know the rules of this bar. And the bar's telling... I mean, there's some trickery. Like they're trying to trick you into believing that the slot machine is a good idea. They're trying to trick you into all these different things. But nonetheless, the tricks are obvious. You know the odds, they can calculate the odds. You know what the margin of success is. You know that if you play craps the right way, you can actually narrow the odds to give yourself a better chance. You know if you play blackjack the right way, you can actually tilt the odds, so you can come close, if you're lucky to win.

JOHN: And if you play it from the Buddhic level... So let me just say about the Buddhic level, when you connect with it, it is synchronicity. So, those of you who are listening and yourself, when you have had that run where you just, where you know.

AUBREY: Yes, which is why I love craps, because you can step into this other intuitional level, actual magical level.

JOHN: Beautiful. That's the fourth. So that is the Buddhic level of the astral. When you open up that, you're doing synchronic magic. It isn't like magic that takes like oomph. It is magic that is effortless and fueled by the power of your love of what you're doing.

AUBREY: And anybody who's played craps cannot avoid an understanding of magic. If you're really a craps player, and for those people who play craps, there's no craps player that are not wildly... You would look at it is superstition, but it's not superstition. It's actually an awareness that magic is real. Because you know it, because you've seen it over and over again, and you feel the energy of a hot table. And you feel the energy of when you have the dice and you know that you can control to some degree, when you're going to roll seven, when you're going to hit your point, when you're going to go with the hard eight instead of the soft eight. There's a magic that you can practice. And that was actually something I have to give credit to my aunt Tanya and her husband Dave because they taught me craps. And they were deep into the esoteric Western magical traditions. And so they would actually have a practice craps table. So, we would actually practice. We would practice both intuiting and also controlling... I forget the name of that. Dean Radin's podcast we talked about it as well. So there's intuiting what's going to happen and there's also affecting--

JOHN: Psychometry?

AUBREY: Yeah, exactly, affecting what the dice is going to roll.

JOHN: In fact, it's probably on that list in terms of like sub skills. That would be one of the... Like the physical manipulation would be one of like the lower ones. But it can be controlled through the heart.


JOHN: So where are we on--

AUBREY: We've been hinting at this level four, the Buddhic-Christic plane. But we haven't really landed there of what that looks like.

JOHN: So, let's just complete the mental. Your friend who's come and taught on Hermes Trismegistus.

AUBREY: Yeah. So that was the conversation I had with Robert Edward grant.

JOHN: Okay, Robert Edward Grant. So, the esoteric mathematics, chemistry, also known as alchemy, astrology... I mean, remember like the Greek mystery schools, and the famous mystery schools were run by Pythagoras and Plato. So, what you know as the study of geometry and algebra, and all of this, had a whole esoteric dimension. I mean, these are the guys who built the pyramids, these are the guys who built the cathedrals. So, it is the kind of education, if you were to get the best of a Masonic education, or Rosicrucian education, or hermetic education and understand that the Rosicrucians and the Masons were the vessel in the last 400 years of the hermetic transmission. Now, hermetic transmission, we last see it in Egypt, and then it disappears.

AUBREY: And reemerges through the mystery schools. Maybe it was never lost but at least went underground.

JOHN: Well, the mystery schools have some slight tones to them. So, for instance, I don't think the druidic school had a strong hermetic ray.

AUBREY: Or a mathematic.

JOHN: And this is because different mystery schools have a tone that is archetypal of one of those seven tones or a chord. So, there might be a 246 mystery school. Or 13--

AUBREY: You're going to have to explain this now.

JOHN: Well, okay. Well, think about the difference of the feel of let's say the druids versus the Zen Buddhists.

AUBREY: No, I get it. I get it. But you referenced and we've talked about this, the 246. So is the 246 referring to this same map that we're talking about? And the 1357?

JOHN: Okay, so there is a deeper archetypal structure here. The deeper archetypal structure is called the rays.

AUBREY: The rays. And are these the rays? Are we going through the rays or no, are the rays different?

JOHN: It's multidomain--

AUBREY: Is it correlative but not exact? Or is it--

JOHN: Yeah, so the rays are set to, this is part of esoteric cosmology. So, they're said to be radiated through the Seven Sisters, right? So, these are an archetypal structure that our universe is structured around. So, first ray, is called the ray of power. And it's got to do with the pure force of God. Pure, pure force.

AUBREY: So, would that be level one, which we haven't got to? It resonates with level one divine.

JOHN: With level one divine. And that is the force of God.

AUBREY: And that's Elohim in my tradition, which is the actual, the force of God, that's the face. That's the facet. So if you're looking at the refraction of light, like through a diamond, and the refraction of light. I mean, a rainbow is seven colors, right?

JOHN: Yeah, so paradoxically, the color of this is actually red. Because it's like, it is the power of God. If we thinking it from the inside out--

AUBREY: That is right. The rainbow is seven colors.

JOHN: Yes. Yeah, yeah.

AUBREY: So this is one way that light actually refracts to, and it does... It seemingly so far correlate with this map that we're currently going through.

JOHN: This is how the cosmos is. This is not philosophy. It's esoteric science. So, it's... I mean, you've got to remember like Isaac Newton was, this is what he spent, with the prism and like the seven colors. He was an initiate of the Rosicrucians. This is a part of our history that has been hidden, but there is a sacred science.

AUBREY: Right.

JOHN: So, should I just go through those rays, the cosmological?

AUBREY: Yeah, we can go through the rays or we can continue on our journey, and then correlate them to the rays as we continue on the journey. So, if we want to backtrack, again, to get people caught up to where we are. So there's the physical, which is level seven, which is where we're beginning in the journey. So, what ray would that be?

JOHN: Seventh ray.

AUBREY: So it'd be seventh ray. And what color is that?

JOHN: Gosh. Let's just invert the system. Let's say it's turquoise. It's like, if we think of like new age as being like at the top, actually new age is the bottom. We think of red as being, oh, that's the physical. Well, let's put red at the top. The force of pure spirit.

AUBREY: Okay, so not worrying about the colors. But ultimately, so there's the physical, emotional, mental, and we've arrived at the intuition or the Buddhic plane level four. All of these have colors that correlate to the refraction of light through a prism--

JOHN: There's a whole science. This is where we bring on mantric tech and like, this is the weaponry of Kālacakra. When you start writing music aligned with this stuff, you start...

AUBREY: Now, a rainbow appears in a particular sequence of color.

JOHN: Yes.

AUBREY: So, would the sequence of color actually correlate to the seven levels the way that it naturally appears?

JOHN: I mean, I would rather talk to a specialist in in the fifth department, which is basically esoteric physics.

AUBREY: Yeah, to understand--

JOHN: Because I don't want to say things which aren't my department. My department is like the second department, which is more education and teaching. So I want to be really precise when I answer that.

AUBREY: Okay. So fair enough. We'll leave that question. I'm going to actually pull up the colors of the rainbow, just out of my own curiosity. Because I think it's very interesting and very... I think it's actually very important to understand that, all right, well check this out. So I just pulled up rainbow and the outer plane is red.

JOHN: And the innermost is--

AUBREY: Is purple.

JOHN: Okay, so I'm guessing, so what's interesting here, we have purple, right? So basically this would be... This is an outpost of the hierarchy on the physical plane, where you are communicating at ground level, seventh--

AUBREY: So, if we're following the rainbow, then we have purple, which would be the physical, then we would have blue, which would be the emotional slash astral. Then we have green, which would be the mental slash, you know? Yeah, the mental plane that we've been discussing. And then we have yellow, which would be the Buddhic--

JOHN: That's right. So, that's the Buddhic plane, where the symbol is the sun. It's a yellow sun. I mean, really, the color would be gold.


JOHN: But Yellow is gold.

AUBREY: Yeah. And then actually, they don't have it in this particular rainbow. They only have six colors, but there would be another color--

JOHN: Orange and red.

AUBREY: Yeah, orange and red. So somewhere between the spiritual is orange and red, and the gradations between orange and red.

JOHN: And basically, and we're just kind of jamming here. If you think of the colors for the chakras, you just kind of like... Chakras are going red to purple, and planes are going red to purple, the opposite way. So there's some beautiful symmetry at play, that if we asked our hermetic, those who are doing the third initiation, what was going on? They would be able to describe in beautiful geometry--

AUBREY: And color. And probably frequency, and probably... And rhythm, the whole thing would actually make sense. But it is interesting to see that red is on the outside of this, just like you said, the divine plane would be red. And as we're moving up through the colors of the rainbow, that's where we're ultimately--

JOHN: Coming...

AUBREY: Yeah, we're arriving at. Alright, so we've moved from the mental into the intuitional, into the Buddhic-Christic plane. So, anything more that we want to add? And again, what this is describing here on this chart is idealism, intuition, divine vision, healing comprehension. Those are the things that are listed on this kind of map that I have in front of me.

JOHN: So, this plane of practice... So this is known in all the traditions. This is the level where you officially become a bodhisattva. So that that seed of, I really want to be of benefit, I really want to serve the dharma army--

AUBREY: All in for all life.

JOHN: All in for all life. When it becomes like now you're maturing and you're operational, you've become that being, that's this fourth point. It would also really, in some ways be the level of the form of an avatar. It's the level that an Avatar or a Buddha or a Christ teaches from. So the cognitive dimension, which I've already mentioned, is like direct, non-conceptual, valid cognition, pure knowing, because you've now become synchronic with the Buddhic field of the planet, and of the cosmos, which--

AUBREY: So you can read directly from the field.

JOHN: Read directly, right. And, of course, depending upon the sub plane that you've opened up... So for instance, if you haven't opened up, let's say, the physical, the seventh sub plane of the Buddhic, your physical intuition might not be so good. So, you might not be a great CEO who needs to like move forces around. So intuition works in all those different dimensions. We've got the intuition, and then we have the feeling quality. Now, the feeling quality is of universal love. May all beings in all realms recognize their true nature is the heart mind of the cosmos. So, it is that level of when you sit down in your practice. And we both know that when we intentionally go there, it reformats.

AUBREY: So, in the teaching to become the Tzadik, we're talking a lot about these levels. And this is from my study with Marc Gafni. So, you would be masters of ayin, which is the sense of being, the being in the heart mind, just the place of absolute being, ayin. And also mastery of yesh, which is becoming and that evolutionary, the doing. So it's being and becoming. It's feeling the heart of God, and then becoming, which is the evolution, participating in the evolution in the doing which is the Bodhisattva, rather than the monk who just sits on the mountain in ayin--

JOHN: That's right.

AUBREY: Who's just in the feeling of it, which is important and beautiful. But then there's another dimension, which is yesh, which is, and now I got to do stuff, which is driven--

JOHN: Yesh?


JOHN: Interesting.

AUBREY: Which is driven by compassion. That's what moves the Bodhisattva.

JOHN: So, within my tradition, within this kind of planetary Buddhist tradition. So if you have form and emptiness, so form would be seven. And complete openness is one. The midpoint is four, which is said to be the heart, which is the heart, right? That's what we call the heart wisdom. Now, when the heart wisdom is fully activated, and that's where you sit, each of these planes has a law. The law of the fourth plane is the law of magnetism, the law of it will attract. So, what does it do? It pulls the energies, the higher energies down, and it pulls the lower energies up. So, the center of our planetary system is not to be at number seven. The center is to be right at the heart. And then the whole thing configures. The highest and the lowest come to meet, which is why the fourth level is called in the Christian mysticism, the crucifixion. But the esoteric version is the sacred wedding. That's the wedding between the Magdalene dimension of ourselves and Yeshua, which is the union, the hermaphrodite, the androgynous being which is the complete soul.

AUBREY: So, in my lineage again, which is the Solomonic Hebrew lineage, the Kabbalist lineage, they would call this [inaudible 01:13:28] Shekinah, which is the union with Shekhinah. Which is Yeshua merging with the Magdalene on the highest level. So [inaudible 01:13:38] Shekinah, is like the merger of self with God.

JOHN: And in the alchemical tradition for the Rosicrucians, this is the union of the white unicorn with the red lion. And that's the same principle in the Buddhist tantric tradition of the union of the red and white drop. They become unionized at the heart. So there's a--

AUBREY: Wait, in the tradition, there's a unicorn and a lion in union. Isn't that part of the symbol of Great Britain?

JOHN: Well, of course it is. There's a reason why we're great. I don't have an American passport, okay?

AUBREY: Yeah, yeah, we passed Fourth of July, I'll let you get away with it. You know what I mean?

JOHN: Okay, may as well be clear.

AUBREY: But it's very fucking interesting.

JOHN: The Rosicrucians founded America, brother. We were part of that project. We weren't part of the let's obliterate the natives. Okay, that was the dark lodge, that was the Empire. But as a part of ceding this beautiful land of yours, with the promise of a new Atlantis, right?

AUBREY: So, this is like one of those deep encoded symbolisms of the union of the unicorn and the lion.

JOHN: Well, like everywhere, we had to go hidden in the UK. Hidden but not that hidden in the sense that Francis Bacon, who was the founder of the... Well, at least a kind of the major player in the Rosicrucians, was also a chancellor of the exchequer. And Newton, Isaac Newton also like chancellor of the exchequer, and--

AUBREY: What's the exchequer?

JOHN: Finance, like head of the... I think Newton was head of the Bank of England as well. So, there was still a time back in Elizabethton times and a little bit, where this world that we're reawakening to, the Renaissance world, was actually part of the world... It was still alive, right? So yes, you see it there, the red lion and you see the white unicorn. It's a promise just like America has this mythic promise of the Masons kind of forming Washington, like that was a promise of new Atlantis. There's also a promise of the kingdom, the return of the king, of the garden. I mean, Brits love to garden. There's a promise of that world that all of our hearts know is true in every single civilization and including European. And this idea of the king has been wildly degraded to ceremonial, not real, rather than the real awakening and emergence of the true king.

AUBREY: With the return of the king--

JOHN: The return of the king, which is a mythic... It's a chapter in the saga.

AUBREY: Yeah. And it feels like we're in this chapter where--

JOHN: We're exactly in this chapter.

AUBREY: Where we're awakening our king within ourselves, celebrating the king within ourself. And someone like Bobby Kennedy, in my perspective, is a symbol of the return of the king, the just, the one who's connected to the field of value, the one who's connected to truth, who's actually in mastery of the physical plane, who's working out every day, going in... I don't know, he's 69 years old or something like that, and can do 25 pull ups. And then also the astral emotion, that ability to navigate that, the mental. He's starting to--

JOHN: It would be also true for you, Aubrey. What I mean is--

AUBREY: It's not just him, but he's a symbol of the return of the king that's universal.

JOHN: To the extent that you and I grow into our kingship, we can all recognize another king at the table. Because the reason why Camelot fell, and I don't mean like your Camelot. I mean, my Camelot. Is because it wasn't fully shared. The kingship wasn't fully released.

AUBREY: So you're talking about actually your own community that you were a part of, actually specifically. And we don't need to go into the story of your own personal life.

JOHN: But we also recognize that we have other... There are other circles out there, where there are other kings who also have their own circles, where there are other kings and queens coming into that circle. And to the extent that we can recognize, oh, like there's another king, who's performing another function in the kingdom, and the kingdom isn't just one king. It's a kingdom of kings and queens. Then we go, he needs support.

AUBREY: Right. Yeah, of course. That's a huge part of what I'm doing. What my mission is, is to find the kings and gather the kings. And Matias has put forward a prophecy of the gathering of the 12 kings. And so, part of my charge, because I actually genuinely trust Matias. I trust that he's actually downloading from the field, and everything that he's guided me to do, including going to Egypt, created the most profound life changing experience of my life. And the rituals that he's enacted have created the most profound life changing experiences of my life. So I fucking trust him. And his prophecy that he said is, gather the 12 kings. What's interesting to me is that I think we think of king in term of gender. We think of king in terms of gender, but actually--

JOHN: Sovereigns.

AUBREY: Actually, king exists in women as well as men, and sometimes we call it queen. But when we're saying queen, we're often meaning a woman king. So there's actually a movie called "The Woman King". And I think that's actually accurate, because there's actually a quality of a queen that is different than the quality of a king, but a woman can be a king, and a man can be a queen. We were actually talking about this in the car ride, which is I have an inner queen that is also very developed as well as my inner king. And Vylana has an inner queen, as well as an inner king. And actually, just to be kind of personal. She was developing her inner king. And then actually, there was a part of her inner queen that was actually malnourished in her path to develop her inner king. And then there was a recalibration that happened where I think the disambiguation of king and queen and understanding that these are both energies that exist in men and women. And, I think this is a longer bigger bracket than I want to get into now. But there's a whole kind of idea of the king and queen codes that celebrate that actually, these are not gender specific. These are actually qualities, archetypal qualities that we can raise up within ourselves, and they're subtly different. So there's a woman king, there's a man king, there's a man queen and a woman queen.

JOHN: There's a magician as well, right? There's a magician, I mean, thinking now of the Tarot, which is essentially what we're talking about, which is one of the hermetic way teaching mechanisms. Empress, fool, king, queen, all of these archetypes that you're referring to are... Those archetypes, within the Kabbalistic tradition, the Tarot card fits straight into the tree of life, which is the tree of life, I know it has 10 Sephirot. But those 10 Sephirot are actually seven levels when you align them, when you slice it sideways. So basically what you're talking about there are, the Tarot is what's the archetypal psychology best necessary? Because there's a story in there, to bring about a psyche that is, like complete and integrated through all of its different parts.


JOHN: So let's just go back to Buddhic.

AUBREY: So we're back to plane four.

JOHN: Back to plane four. So, one of the things we said was direct valid non-conceptual cognition intuition. And we all have a taste of, we can have a taste of what that's like. The fourth initiation, you are basically installing that as your operating system. You're installing the Bodhisattva vow, you're installing the Bodhisattva code, you're installing the Tzadik code as your fundamental operating system. So, that changes how the mind operates. You don't have to think anymore. Like a lot of what we're doing right now, we're not thinking about it, we're just going with it. That's got to do with that particular energy. Politically, it would be fighting, developing and moving towards a world economy that was built on the principle of sharing and complete openness. It would be a decentralized financial system that was based on love and sharing. It's a whole... It is, when we see it, we're seeing the world that our hearts know is possible, which is like the complete integration of psyche and techni. The fourth industrial revolution fully met completely by the fourth turning of the dharma, for a world where the masculine and the feminine are perfectly in marriage. Where we have the garden, and it's beautiful, and it's natural. And we have technology and it's refined, but the technology is informed by the good and the beautiful. It isn't just some Ahrimanic ugly tech. So, that, now it's set in the tradition, in this planetary tradition, our planetary tradition, that our planet is going through its own fourth initiation. Meaning that Sophia-Gaia is going to attempt to build that world.

AUBREY: What's happened is, is now people have an allergy to the idea of this one world, one government, because we actually intuit correctly, that the people who are driving for it are driving from the force of Empire, which is a dark force of control, manipulation, anti-truth, anti-life. And so, we're like, we're allergic, like fuck no, we want like individual... Because we don't trust that those forces... But it's actually this idea of one planet that can stand as Earth, representatives of Earth in the Galactic Federation. This is an inevitability and actually a necessity, especially if we're going to withstand existential threats that are non-terrestrial. Because right now we're just worried about terrestrial existential threats, which are significant. And, also give cause for those people who are not connected to God and not connected to light, to say there is a need. This is part of the justification why all of these people pushing for one world government in control, they're not exactly evil, they just see that this is the out that is necessary to prevent the existential crises that are happening. However, they're because they're not connected to the field, they're not connected to the Buddhic plane, they're not connected to God, they're not seeing what they're doing. But perhaps and this is what we're talking about in our book, they're creating the infrastructure that will infiltrate from the inside out with psychedelic medicine, with awareness, with initiatic practices, that the actual scaffolding of this one world is what we need. And so potentially, they're working on behalf of the kingdom unbeknownst to them. While their intentions are malevolent, they're actually doing something that's going to be helpful. Because in this world, I can imagine... Let's just talk about money because money is such a deep, deep seated part of what drives Empire. Money and the power over other people. I see, like so there's a company that I'm getting involved with that actually can print gold currency of every variety. From 1/1000ths of a gram to--

JOHN: Like gold?

AUBREY: Oh, I haven't shown you.


AUBREY: Oh, it's fucking incredible. It's incredible.

JOHN: You can have a gold, we could have a gold--

AUBREY: So all currency instead of being paper that has some value that you assume, this is fully assayable recoverable gold printed on a currency sheet that's beautiful.

JOHN: Brilliant.

AUBREY: And of course, there would be no necessity for exchange rates, and all the money, the banking... It would actually be, no, this is our currency.

JOHN: So, that would be Buddhic level gold, yellow currency.

AUBREY: Yes, yes.

JOHN: Universal--

AUBREY: Universal currency.

JOHN: Beyond Bitcoin, it's--

AUBREY: It's the physical version. And then there would be a Bitcoin--

JOHN: Then there would be a tethered--

AUBREY: Tethered Bitcoin to gold.

JOHN: Tethered digital Helios credit. That's brilliant.

AUBREY: And so, that would be the universal currency that would also be decentralized. Because you can't, it's gold, you can exchange it anywhere, you can do whatever, nobody can control it. And the decentralized finance that Bitcoin offers and the sovereignty of being able to spend that however you like, this is part of what I envision for the kingdom. And this is why I'm pushing the resources that I have into this gold currency. The company is called Valaurum. And it's fucking incredible. I haven't talked about it too much, because I'm actually birthing my own printing company. We're going to have beautiful art, we're going to have... So, some of the art that you've seen in the house, Hannah Yata. So it's going to be her art on these gold, basically, currency surrogates.

JOHN: Yeah, yeah, so, the Buddhic is the kingdom. Because also, it is a group consciousness. So at the Buddhic level, each of us would have our own tribe, where we would have a level of deep commitment to the kings and queens, or whoever, whatever gender and color and flag. Whatever that is.

AUBREY: Of course. But that's what we're saying, that gender actually doesn't matter when we're talking about kings-

JOHN: It's a rainbow. It's a fucking rainbow.

AUBREY: Whatever you want to be, whatever gender you are, we're all a unique gender anyways. We're all some combination of masculine and feminine, we all have an inner king and inner queen. No matter what biology or whatever pronoun we want to use, doesn't matter. There's a king and queen in there.

JOHN: Think of a whole structuring of society where it's around circles, and the sharing of resources within a particular structure. So, there you also have this Buddhic principle of what relationship would look, which is more... Like, clan would be like a kind of a unconscious version of it. It would be a relational circle of deep commitment and a deep sharing of all resources.

AUBREY: And that's what I've been trying to build with the bead necklace that I've talked about, which is individual relations. And so, it's actually an evolution of the concept of circle. So, I'll go into this briefly to explain. What I saw as the problem with a tribe as a circle, is there's the inside of the circle, and then there's the outside of the circle. And people outside of the circle are jealous and are kind of... It's a closed system. You have to be either in the circle or you're out of the circle. But what this is, is they're like nodes. Every person is a node, like the center of a spoke of a wheel. And you actually do have a circle, but they're spokes of a wheel. And then every node has their own spoke, the center hub, like the hubcap. So, it connects and all of the hubcaps connect. And so you do have a circle, I do have my necklace, which has 12 beads on it, or something like this now. I just traded with Shawn Chester. So there's a certain number of those for me, which is unique to me, and they don't all have to get along with everybody else on the strand. I hope that they do. In some cases, they don't. And that's rather annoying to me. But nonetheless, it is what it is. But then they also get to create their own circles. And I don't have to be friends with Huaira's jungle friends down in Ecuador.

JOHN: There's a structural way I can see it as you're talking where they get double linked. That's more than double... As you're saying, it's a holonic, it's a horizontal holonic structure, that demands a particular kind of discipline. I mean, it's not... You have to respect the structure of it, because--

AUBREY: Exactly. And then there's deep vows, there's commitments, there's initiations, and there's... The beauty of this strand is that if there's any aspect of your relationship that's out of alignment with any one of those people, you actually feel the weight on your strand. And when you look at it, you're like, "Fuck." And actually, I was going through a ceremony recently, and I always wear my beads in all of the ceremonies that I go in, because I call them forward. And I've told you stories of how I call them forward as allies in the astral when I need them. And also call them in the physical. When my father passed and for the funeral, I had every single bead on my necklace, who showed up there to be with me in the physical, that was on there. Those were the first people I called, because they're the closest relationships. And then there's people who are working on developing that level. And then it's a vow, they're vows that we make with each other.

JOHN: So, that that structure, if you imagine that on a planetary level, it would have to be supported by an AI, a benevolent AI system that was able to kind of manage the resources. And the whole financial system and structures that were put in place have, they would have to be sophisticated, interconnected, planetary structures. So, going back to what we're saying about how the forces, the kind of forces that we can all see that are shadowy forces that are moving towards a kind of shadow version of the One World Government, right? That archetype of that particular move resonates with the first plane. So, the first plane resonates with power, and archetypically, it's about governance and law. So, you could be you could resonate, if you were power hungry, a power hungry sociopath, you might be doing terrible things. But you resonate with that particular frequency of the sacred. And so, you're unconsciously beginning to... Like you couldn't help, or albeit in a terrible way, in a terrible way, actually, moving the way that spirit wants you to move. You think you're doing it because you're going to have your one world wet dream? Well, actually, we're waiting. Shambala warriors are going to infiltrate all of those systems.

AUBREY: All of the scaffolds, all of the structures.

JOHN: All of the systems.

AUBREY: Yeah. So, what I also imagine with these with these bead necklaces is actually the strand itself, having the strand itself is a commitment to a certain ethos and value system. So, anybody, and I imagine having these large festivals, these gatherings like they did at Uluru and--

JOHN: Put it on the central altar.

AUBREY: Yeah, exactly. And everybody's wearing the strand, and by wearing the strand, you're saying that I abide by a certain code of relation to my own--

JOHN: The code of the circle.

AUBREY: The code of the circle to my own tribe, but there's also a code of values that we all share. And so I imagine everybody gathering in these places wearing their bead necklaces, meeting people who share similar values that they may not know. But it's saying like these are all people who abide by this certain code.

JOHN: So, that is the roundtable. The circle is the roundtable.


JOHN: It's how we build. It's beautiful what you describe, is, how do we build a culture that's fun enough, and joyful enough? Well, of course, it has to be mythic. It has to have a kind of feel to it, a feel of kings and queens, and of jesters, and of play and of music and of laughter, orgy, celebration, I mean, whatever.

AUBREY: And truth. So, I'm going to actually read, I'm going to actually go through and read what the vows are. And these vows are evolving. And actually, I wrote these vows, probably six, seven years ago, and there's been a lot of transformation, and I actually haven't changed the vows. So they're not exactly what I think it'll ultimately be, but it's enough. And so, I'm going to actually go through and I'm going to read, because I just went through this, as I said, with my brother, Shaan. So, just give me a second here and... Okay, it's right here. All right. So, what we have is we have another, so it has to be witnessed, and it's witnessed by somebody else who carries the strand, who can witness it, and it holds accountable. Even if they're not on your strand, they recognize the strand, and they understand it. They recognize the circle. So there'll be a witness and a facilitator of it. And that witness will ask, in this case it was Vylana, who carries a strand as well. My brother Erick here, he's one of the beads on my strand. And so, he could witness this. Let's say sometime down the road, we're trading beads, and Erick's there witnessing. And he would say to both of us, is there anything at all that is unsaid that you are holding on to? And he would ask that question to both of us. And if there is, we speak it, and it's witnessed, and we speak the truth, and we share the truth. After that process is done, then we both repeat, everything is spoken, I have nothing to withhold. Then the next question. Is there any grievance judgment, anything at all you're holding on to? Which is kind of a reiteration of the first one, but just making sure. Anything, like you sure? And then you say, there's no judgment between us, you are always forgiven. Then number three, do you commit to being there for your brother or sister in times of scarcity and abundance? And then you say, yes, hopefully. If you say, no, then the process stops, and you're not going to trade beads. And then we both say, as long as I have food, you shall never go hungry. When we both have food, we shall feast. So, the commitment to sharing. And then the next question. Do you see the warrior in front of you, who will fight with you, whenever you should call for any battle large or small? And, you say yes. Then both people say, as long as I draw breath, you shall never fight alone. Then, next question. Do you see yourself and your brother or sister in their divine fullness, celebrating their royalty unflinchingly? And you say, the king or queen is me, celebrates the king or queen is you. And then the last question, are there any reservations? Anything left unsaid? Again, is there anything there? And you say, if the answer to that is no, there's no reservations. Then you say, with this bead, and you hold your bead. And so you have your home beads, it's always the same bead that represents you. So you're always giving the same type of bead to every person. That bead represents you. My bead is made of Manzanita wood, which is very sacred to me. It's a sacred wood that I would work with in my grandma's farm in Redding, California. And so I got Manzanita beads. So that's my bead. So, I'd say with this bead, a symbol of our soul, we are bound as tribe. And then the facilitator, then finally says, it is done. And at that point from your right hand, to the left hand of the other person, you exchange beads, and then you exchange beads, and then you wear that bead on your strand. And then you hold that vow as sacred.

JOHN: Aubrey, that's so fucking beautiful and good and true. I mean, what you're describing here is what the relate like... So the first thing is, what you're describing is... When we talk about the sacred wedding as the archetype of the Buddhic plane, in the past, it was only individual initiates that could go there. Now, what's changing now is the planetary tradition has decided we're going to do this as groups. We can bring like hundreds, thousands of people through. Now what you're describing is, what is the natural level of the marriage of the lion and the unicorn, at our hearts as individuals, but then as a community? What does Buddhic, messianic, Christic community look like? Now, of course, what it looks like is a circle. And the symbolism of the Buddhic, the solar symbolism, if it's the sun is the 12. The 12 divisions of the Zodiac, which of course is why Matias is saying, it's 12.

AUBREY: The 12 kings.

JOHN: And it would be a universal process of 12, there's 12 kings here, 12 kings there. And it's interesting, we've been developing a meditative technology that works with 12 people. So it's like a 12-person committed group meditative technology, which would provide like the kind of Buddhic frame for some of this relational tech that you're describing.

AUBREY: There's a symbol, and I think it's a Buddhic symbol, and it looks like a fucking... It looks like one of those pirate wheels.

JOHN: Oh, the Wheel of Dharma?

AUBREY: So, that's the Wheel of Dharma. It's actually, it's an icon and emojis, if you actually look. There's one of those. It's in the purple zone. And it looks the wheel of an old ship that used to steer the ship. And this is actually what these beads are. It's like, you're the center of that spoke. And then there's a circle around the spoke, which is your strand in each spoke.

JOHN: That's right. You know what's funny, so we're talking about, from the point of view of dharma, this is the fourth turning of the Dharma Wheel, of that wheel. That wheel turns as we evolve. And the fourth turning pertains to a teaching around this Buddhic level, which is what we're describing. How do we teach a dharma from that level? So, when we initiate people, what we're initiating them into, is straight into that culture in a way and in a speed that hasn't been... The thing about the tech, like fourth gen tech is, it's not the cart and the horse. It's a Tesla. It's a quantum... So we haven't yet built that initiatory system, but we're putting all the... We are building it. We're all building pieces of what it would take to--

AUBREY: And in the absence of that initiatic tech, in the absence of the tech that I've used, because that's what I'm familiar with is the psychonautic tech, and the initiatic. So, everybody who's on my strand, I've been with them in the deep, deep waters of Ayahuasca journey. There's not a person on that strand, that I haven't been deep in the medicine. Actually, none of them that I've not done Ayahuasca with. None of them that I haven't actually gone to the depth, like pressing our psyche. And that's a part of what gives us the trust, that we know that we're actually there. And we've actually showed up in the dark times--

JOHN: It's not easy.

AUBREY: Yeah, like if one of us goes to hell, or one of us has an encounter with the dark forces. And, I think, before we wrap this podcast, I want to get all the way up to the first level, because we're still on number four. We've moved from seven to four. And we can move through the rest of them quickly if we want. But then I also want to talk about that force of resistance that's going to resist you the whole way, all the way through each level. And as Steven Pressfield describes capital, our resistance is the force that tries to block you anytime you're going from a lower level to a higher level, whether that's in the creation of your art, or whether it's in your own spiritual development.

JOHN: Right, right, right.

AUBREY: So, I do want to just put that pin in that at certain point, let's continue following this mass--

JOHN: Let me... So, 5, 6, 7 is beyond the paygrade.

AUBREY: Well, I mean 3, 2, 1.

JOHN: Yes. Sorry. Fifth initiation, sixth initiation, and seventh. So, we're talking about now, levels of mastery of the highest levels in the planetary hierarchy. So what we've described thus far, every listener of this podcast, could participate in the path that we're talking about right now to that fourth, initiation. The fifth, what's happening now is--

AUBREY: Which is level three. Again, we're counting down.

JOHN: Which is what's called the atmic, and then you have the monadic. And you have what's called the adi, or the divine, the original. Those initiatory processes are part of a slower deeper planetary cycle. Meaning the planetary organism is moving us as beings through a biological process that is her own awakening. And different levels of this are moving at different speeds. So the speed of the physical level, there's a lot of change going on and at the astral. When you start getting to the atmic, you're now at a slower cycle.

AUBREY: Atmic is level three of the initiation.

JOHN: Now, you're getting at a slower class graduation. So if you're not in that class right now, you probably ain't going to be in that class for a while. Does that make sense?

AUBREY: Yeah, we're really talking about--

JOHN: We're really talking about some very profound levels of initiation.

AUBREY: Yeah, yeah. So, I'm going to read some of the things from this atmic plane. And it says all knowledge, perfection, realization, active service, and beatitude. What is beatitudes? What is that? I don't even know that word.

JOHN: That would be a dimension of esoteric Christianity, which isn't my... I would have to talk to my friend Rowley, who specializes in these--

AUBREY: Beatitude, interesting. Alright, so in this all knowledge, I mean, we're talking about... This is wild, this means that you're actually--

JOHN: Well, this is omniscience.

AUBREY: So, this is actually being able to tap into the eye in many ways, like the eye of God, like the one that can see everything with the clarity, and--

JOHN: It is the eye, it is the iris, it's the point. So, the atman, atom is a point. So it's the point of pure individual consciousness, of pure I am, of pure atomic directionality. That then can be used, if you have fully completed a third initiation of all that mental stuff, you can then access that through the intuition. So you can go from like three, four or five, atmic Buddhic mental, and not have an intuition that is vague, but have an intuition of what's the equation for this [inaudible 01:47:17] for this particular thing?

AUBREY: Right. Right.

JOHN: So this is--

AUBREY: Right, so level three, the spiritual we're talking. I mean, this is in many ways, this is the Eye of Horus, Eye of Ra.

JOHN: Eye of Horus, Eye of Ra. This is the deeper individual intelligence behind a Buddha or a Christ. Like a Buddha or Christ is teaching from that Buddhic-Christic level, teaching a teaching of that Buddhic-Christic level, but the light is being focused through a single lens. And that lens is the Atman.

AUBREY: So, in the Temple of Osiris, when I told on the podcast with Mehcad, I tell the story of Matias once again. Tat fucking crazy, fucking being, after my Buddhic initiation in the Temple of Hathor, I had an initiation in the Temple of Osiris, where he came and did some things, activated, it's this singing thing, and he did something to my head. And I became the eye temporarily. And I could actually see all of reality and recognize that my seeing of reality fundamentally changed reality. And so, I think if I go retrace back to the Toltec level, this would be the highest, highest level of the nagual--

JOHN: The highest level of magic.

AUBREY: Highest level of magic, where intention of the nagual, which is the sight that can come through, not only can see the field but see reality into existence.

JOHN: So, this would be in a training tradition. You've done all the prior trainings and now you're learning how to sit in concentration meditation for three or four days without a stop. The drill is now a drill.

AUBREY: And this is what a lot of the gurus from the Hindu tradition, the Indian tradition, they all speak of these activations that--

JOHN: This is the level that activating the Siddis consciously is safe. The problem is, is you can do that, you can go off and do that level of concentration, at any level of development. It won't be the atmic, but you'll be tapping that energy. So you can tap that energy for darkness. I mean, basically that would be the third sub plane of the astral, where you are using the astral energy of powerful concentration to hook up to that level of potency.

AUBREY: So, whenever I've arrived there and again, I think the psychonautic path allows you to experience temporarily these phenomena. What's interesting is whenever I've gotten to this place, because since the Temple of Osiris activation, where I felt myself become the eye and Matias whispered in that now you're the eye, and I was like, fuck. And I couldn't even walk around, Vy was trying to get me to go to other places, and I could hardly step and move. And she's like, put your hand in this water. I was like, "I'm going to fall in the water." I'm seeing in like another... So, it was a very strange experience. But I've also reaccessed that place through the medicine journeys.

JOHN: Sure.

AUBREY: What's interesting is, like I understand that this is a place where I could through act of will and intent, I could actually change something. But it's such a perfected state, that actually my desire to change anything is absent. So, I know you're saying that you could... I think at the highest level, I suppose you could use this for ill will. But at that place, as it says, perfection, everything is fucking perfect. So I don't want to do anything.

JOHN: Sure, but that's because of who you are. If I'm some... What do I think?

AUBREY: But could they even... I think once they reach that level, they would see that it's all perfect.

JOHN: Because basically we're now beginning to talk about the energy of spiritual will, and will can... You can tap into a lower harmonic of that energy. Like a lower harmonic. If you remember, these are notes. So this third note repeats itself in each of these octaves.

AUBREY: Yeah, so we're talking about Sauron here.

JOHN: Sauron is--

AUBREY: The eye that wants to build evil.

JOHN: It's, I'm fucking... I'm Claudius. I'm Caesar. I'm, fill in the gap. Versus I'm Chenrezig, I'm Avalokitesvara, I'm Ganesha. This is the level of I am of "Avatar". Not of your human soul, which is kind of four. Now we're getting it a different level of potency of I Am, which is like, it's what the Tibetans call deity yoga. If level four is soul yoga, now we're moving into deity yoga.

AUBREY: Yeah, level four, I have an intense passion to affect the world in a positive way. I have an intense passion. At this level, which is level three, which I've just touched. It's not like I have conscious willing acts. The medicine can pop me into these places. I lose will actually. And maybe this is part of my training is to actually... And I've thought about that. I was like, goddamn, I was there, and I know that there's immense things that I could do, but I lost the will. I lost the will because I saw perfection in everything. And so, with perfection and everything, you don't want to do anything.

JOHN: So in the Buddhist tradition, we talk about practice. We're moving now here into what we call perfection stage, and great perfection stage. So the mastery is how do you fit together the various yogas? Because we started back with like warrior yoga and sexual practice. How do we stack all of these together? So, it's not like, it's now the mandala is becoming more and more complex. So to the extent that you have a refined image of the kingdom of you as sovereign, your friends and the world system, what this level, this atmic level does now is lock that, you're locking that in place for the sake of the whole.

AUBREY: Yeah, I understand. I understand. Alright, so then let's move to the second, which is the sixth layer--

JOHN: The sixth initiation.

AUBREY: The sixth initiation, the second level, the monadic. And I think we talked about how 5-MeO-DMT pops you into, in many ways, this monadic state where it's just, it's everything. It is God is everything.

JOHN: It's God as everything and everything as like a pure light of intelligence, of blinding light and knowing.

AUBREY: Bliss, light, knowing, love. It's like, and you're blasted. And, of course, you can't hold it. And it's actually difficult for the body to hold it. But it gives you a glimpse of the monadic.

JOHN: You will be able to hold it. Within this lifetime, you will be able to hold it.

AUBREY: Man, I remember the first time I did it, really strong 5-MeO. Actually stronger than was responsible. It was not a high level... I've worked with a lot of high level, and been initiated by high level bufo shamans. This dose that I was given was far more than actually what I typically work with. But regardless, it was funny because it was the greatest feeling I've ever felt in my life. And then he asked me, "Do you want to do more?" And I was like, "Fuck, no." This is the best feeling I've ever felt, but my body is going to fucking explode.

JOHN: So remember that the natural state of this would be that you would... So when you take the medicine, you abstract just to that level. That's the medicine, it points it out to you. But in the livingness of it, it would include 1, 2, 3, 4, 5--

AUBREY: Right, right, right. Which has been skipped, and there's flaws and there's cracks. If you try to play a cracked crystal bowl, it won't resonate. Exactly.

JOHN: Yeah, it's that, but what I mean by that is, actually, okay? If you and I were on meditation, I could point this monadic level out as its functioning right now. Then you would meditate on integrating it into your operating system as we're talking right now. So you wouldn't need... The medicine abstracts. But no one functions like that.

AUBREY: No, no. No, you just kind of roll around or... I have a brother right here who just kind of drooled a little bit, and smiled. And other people are--

JOHN: Okay, so an example of a being who showed us what that looked like, was Ramana Maharshi. One of the great Advaita realizers of Hinduism. He stayed in the temple where he was like that, and they had to feed him.

AUBREY: I get it.

JOHN: Okay, now, that isn't the initiation. It doesn't look like that. But what he showed was--

AUBREY: You can stick the landing.

JOHN: Yeah, he did it his way, which was a continuous 5-DMT pen nonstop for like... What we're going to be doing is we're much more interested in an integrated integral realization, where all these prior levels of functioning are transcended and included. So, the meditation won't be abstracting yourself into that. It would be starting to include that within the operating system that you're building.

AUBREY: Yep. All right, I get it. So then, all right, so we're moving--

JOHN: Okay, so what happens then is now you're tapped in to significant planetary will, which is now you're tapping into the will, the force of the will of the Godhead, which is closer to the deep plan of what she or the logos, what Sophia-Gaia is wanting to have happen, as--

AUBREY: Is it planetary or universal?

JOHN: It's both. Yes, I mean, she is a body, a chakra within the solar logos. And the solar logos is a chakra and a body within [inaudible 01:58:26] logos, and [inaudible 01:58:27] is a chakra body within a galactic logos. And the reason why it's said that the earth is particularly special, is she's like the root Kundalini. When we fire this baby up, you know--

AUBREY: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all the stories. All the stories of that the Earth has particular significance in all of the nations, star nations of the Federation. The dark ones and the light ones are paying particular attention.

JOHN: Oh, when she goes nova, she's beautiful. She's beautiful. And there are other beauties in the galaxy. Sofia is like--

AUBREY: One of the great beauties and potential--

JOHN: So we're aligning to planetary and solar will. Because the solar piece is like, oh, yeah, he's also, is like, he has an unfolding as well.

AUBREY: Alright, so let's talk about the first level, which is the seventh initiation, divine. And so, if I'm going to speak from my experience of what this might be, and then I'll see if this correlates to anything that makes sense on your end. I would say the only time I've maybe experienced this is the last time I did Ayahuasca. I did it, and I did it with my sister, my sister Huaira was there. It was a beautiful Ayahuasca journey, and I won't share the details of this experience. But in this experience, then, she gave me a very strong blast of Rapé, of her very sacred Rapé and her very sacred prayer. And I was still deep in the medicine. And when we found each other in this way, we both knew that this was time. I was in this kind of bliss state for four hours, which is unusual for me. Usually, I'm kind of struggling a little bit, to be honest. But in this state, I was in a bliss state, and she blasted me with a strong Rapé. I completely dissolved into the deepest peace and stillness of the void until actually, even my breath stopped. And it felt like even my heart stopped, everything stopped. And it was all just the deepest piece of nothing. And the deepest, deepest piece of stillness and nothing. And there was an everything that was in the nothing, but the everything wasn't present like it is in the monadic where 5-MeO, it's like fuck, it's everything. It's every cry, it's every orgasm, it's every laugh, it's every color, it's every scream, it's everything. And this one was like... And then I had to actually, like come back to breathing, breathe, breathe, breathe, breathe, breathe. And that was potentially maybe the only time that the medicine has popped me into just a taste, or at least one taste of one flavor of what the divine might be like.

JOHN: So, one of the terms of this would be in the Buddhist tradition is the adi, the perfected plane. Also the logos, logoic. Now think of this as holonic. So what the holonic level is, it is the realization of the whole. Of every whole. It's like cellular, planetary, cosmic. It's like wholeness all the way through. And that wholeness is complete openness. So it's like the circle and then the circle dissolves. And space becomes the circle, holding all beings.

AUBREY: It's like an emptiness of presence is what I could describe it as.

JOHN: Yeah, and as a realization, what that means is essentially it would mean that you've become the whole. So as a human being, the realization would be I have now become the planetary logos. My body, my seven layers is in direct harmonic resonance with the planet and the solar systems.

AUBREY: Yeah, it's really interesting to think about a harmony that's so great that there's no differentiation, which is why it feels like nothing, a nothing of presence. Because there's no polarity. There's no difference in tone or color or anything. So it appears as--

JOHN: Effortless. We call that the yoga for that in... We call that adi yoga. [inaudible 02:03:37]. Great completion. That is like the secret. That's the true Buddha. Like there's the Buddhic as like this Buddhic, and the Buddha culture at the fourth. But at level one, now you have... This is the Buddha's heart, level four. This is the Buddhist crown.

AUBREY: Yeah, whoa.

JOHN: You can feel it in the space right now. This is the level that resonates with Shambala, with the kingdom of God, which is essentially the planetary crown chakra where the sages of our planet who have made it all the way through, our real elders, like the council of bodhisattvas, the real high level kings reside. And that's also where it's said, the deepest interactions with enlightened extra solar system civilizations happens at that level.

AUBREY: Yeah, I mean, because in... Yes, it feels like it would be that level, but also integrated with the other levels. Where that could happen. Because where I was--

JOHN: The process that that we are going to begin in our lifetime, is the process of externalizing that whole thing down into matter. When we finish that we'll have a planet that is physically connected to the Galactic... I mean, that's the [inaudible 02:05:18]. That is the form in emptiness, emptiness in form.

AUBREY: [inaudible 02:05:24] being crown, [inaudible 02:05:25] being chalice.

JOHN: And where they both meet is Tiferet, is the heart, which is the Buddhic level. So at the Buddhic level--

AUBREY: Which is also called, they call it beauty. But it's... Yes, it's that.

JOHN: It's her. It is the beautiful world that we know, and that we can see.

AUBREY: And also king, but there's Moloch, but Tiferet also represents the king. Again, the non-gendered king, in a way is also another way, but it's beauty, the kingdom, it's the place of the kingdom.

JOHN: It's a Buddha field. We're now talking, I mean, kingdom yes, Buddha field, meaning you have a civilization of beings who are functioning at that level and interacting with other civilized... I mean, that's when the fun would... I mean, that's a way... We're on a chapter right now. But in terms of the planetary being, and the planetary plan, and what the purpose is that you're tapping in at the atmic level of what that flower, what she wants to become, we're getting a sense now of what a rainbow planet would be.

AUBREY: This is, I think, as you've shared, like part of what's drawing you forward, part of what you feel is your dharma is to develop the schooling, the invisible college as you call it, that actually can help people through this initiatic path. And I think one of the ways that we're meeting is, is I've stumbled, honestly, stumbled into many of these planes through my persistence in following the sacred medicine paths. And so, I have a gnosis, some semblance of a gnosis of at least a feeling in my body of these different things. And so, I can talk about the different psychoanalytic practices that can help people get a taste of this. And then you can talk about how to actually integrate, train, and actually stabilize these ecstatic states, which I have certainly not mastered is the ability to stabilize any of these states.

JOHN: The thing is, is in this fourth turning of the dharma, the tech is becoming that much more efficient. So what might have taken decades and decades doesn't have to, if we're practicing in a very specific way and understanding what it is that we need to awaken. Because people don't need to learn to meditate to sit down for three hours nonstop, or three days nonstop. What we want to awaken is this Buddhic level of universal love, of sharing that has a particular kind of [inaudible 02:08:19] practice and a particular methodology. Like this fourth turning has slightly different methodologies using similar tech, but putting them together like music, it has a different tune to it.

AUBREY: Yeah. All right, so we'll talk about the initiatic path. You're still in the process of developing it and creating it. We'll leave that for another conversation and another time in our journey together through this life, which will be a lifelong journey. There's no doubt in my mind. And before we wrap this podcast, we've talked about the seven layers, the seven initiations. And as promised, I want to talk about the force of resistance. Just for a little while. We don't need to belabor it, but the force of resistance that's working antithetically to prevent us from reaching these levels. And there's a story and it's just a story. So I'll tell the story. And the story is that there's dark forces that draw power. And so the reason, the motive behind the dark forces is that it's vampiric in nature, and that it's drawing power from the unrealized spiritual potential of every being in every planet. So, if you imagine that we're in quantum potentiality, and so, we have the ability to hold and access these higher levels of consciousness, spiritual energy, chi, prana, Eros, lifeforce. Lifeforce, let's just call it lifeforce, all of the unmanifest, unutilized quantum potential of this lifeforce, there's an egregore, an aggregated being, and also smaller players, vampiric players that feed off of the unrealized spiritual potential, lifeforce potential of every being in every planet. And so that's the motive of this force of resistance, that is actually trying to harvest for its own power, for its own individual power, all of the unutilized potential. So, there's a force that you could call the opponent, Satan. There's many adversary or whatever you want to call it, but call it the opponents so that we don't bring an association from all of this. The opponent, or I like Pressfield's name, Resistance, that is trying to keep us from this realization. And I think this is where a lot of the new age gets it wrong. They're thinking, oh, yeah, it's, it's all doing it for our good and for our benefit. Yeah, maybe at some super, at level one divine, maybe--

JOHN: Like, yeah, you've got to learn to face the tanks and the knives, and that's how you [inaudible 02:11:19].

AUBREY: Yeah, so the opponent can be helpful at that level. However, this is the fucking opponent. And when Hamilton, so our brother Hamilton, Hamilton introduced me to the opponent. And that's exactly what he said. And the opponent showed up as this swirling black cloud of confusion and distortion, and inversion, and one that mocks love. The Kabbalist, we'd call, Marc and I call Sitra Achra, the upside down, the inversion of all of the good, the true, the beautiful that we see happening in post modernity, we see happening on the earth, we see happening in so many different places, the inversion of value itself. And, that it's just trying to fuck you up. However, it can't.

JOHN: That's right.

AUBREY: And so, this is not to be integrated. This is to be actually resisted.

JOHN: Well, this is why you and I say that on our heroic journey, there's an actual journey we have to take. It involves doing things, it involves saying no to certain things.

AUBREY: Right, whereas discretion--

JOHN: Well, discrimination.

AUBREY: Discrimination, so that shows up on level five, which is the third initiation that starts spiritual discernment.

JOHN: So, basically, it's said in the tradition that evil goes up to the cosmic mental level. So, what we're talking about is evil that is like based on faulty ways of thinking.

AUBREY: It's all based on lies.

JOHN: Archetypal levels are faulty ways of thinking. So, to protect ourselves, the first thing we have to get is we have to understand clearly, understand what's happening. If we understand that this is a cosmological process of our planet awakening, and our planet has, she has real will to do that. And you align yourself with that, then the adversary has no... But to do that, we have to go all the way through, like a bodhisattvic vow, or bodhichitta has to be aligned to this planetary being and aligned... The fact is that you and I we're going to get to the world that our hearts know is possible.

AUBREY: Right.

JOHN: Now, when we don't understand the game plan, when we don't understand that the sacred has an archetype and a plan, the plan is set to be held within the first three layers. So the plan is, oh, it's a sacred unfolding. It's inevitable. When we align with that, we align with her power that's unfolding. And I think that these forces are--

AUBREY: We can push them back. We were having this conversation before the podcast with our brother, Christian, and Dave. We were out there. And the way that I see it is that the opponent cannot be vanquished. The idea that you can vanquish the opponent. But what I see is like a rugby scrum. And In a rugby scrum, there's a ball that's in the center. And the idea is with all of your force and all of your will, you lock arms and shoulders with your brothers, in this case rugby or female rugby, it's sisters.

JOHN: I was a captain of rugby as a kid.

AUBREY: Fuck yeah. So you push and you push. And the idea is you move the ball, and if the ball is the earth, or the ball is yourself, capital S self as Dick Schwartz would say. If you move the scrum, where life, love, God is actually over the ball, then you can pick up the ball and run.

JOHN: That's right. And so in the tradition, we talk about that. The planetary tradition, it says, that we seal the door where evil dwells. We push evil off the physical, push it over time into the astral, push it up into the mental, and it's sealed.

AUBREY: Yes, we push it from the physical into the cosmic liquid, and then even beyond, out of the cosmic liquid. So we're pushing it out of the tissue of where we are, so that we can actually abide fully in the kingdom.

JOHN: That's right. And when we as a planet are super clear cognitively, about what the sacred is, what the behaviors are, what the code is, nations, families, like gone.

AUBREY: This is where in my own, psychonautic contact with Pleiadean intelligence, which actually first reached out to me in my darkness retreat, which creates the endogenous DMT. There's a sense there that they've actually succeeded, in actually pushing, I don't even know if they have a physical planet anymore, or whatever. It seems like they're actually in another dimensional reality, but they succeeded in pushing it out of their physical plane, out of the astral plane. And they've pushed it back to a point where it's actually not affecting them. What I'm saying is I don't sense the opponent present in the Pleiadean consciousness where they reside.

JOHN: The initiation to our logos, Sophia-Gaia is going through is the initiation to that fourth that will take her out of the mental plane. She's been stuck in the mental plane of where humanity has been in all of this for a long cycle. When she moves to that Buddhic plane herself, she becomes cleansed. All that stuff drops away. And then we begin the journey that obviously like the Pleiadeans, and the Syrians might have been on this journey for millions of years.

AUBREY: Or billions, who the fuck knows? Yeah, and time gets really squirrely. And then at that point, they still can drop in. So the Pleiadeans that are helping which channel through Paul Selig, who's I think one of the purest, clearest channels of this higher wisdom. They are reaching out to Paul as an act of will, because they are still able to access the Buddhic plane of the Bodhisattva. There's bodhisattvas among them out of compassion for us on our path are here to help us, and that's what is actually happening more and more is these shambolic level warriors, this plane of the star beings, the angels or whatever, through, even though they've succeeded for their own life, they're not doing it for themselves anymore. But out of compassion for where we are, they're showing up to help.

JOHN: That's right. It's done. It's inevitable. I think we have to believe. We have to believe in our hearts the way that we get there is by being there. The way that we get there is by envisioning which as you said, is a whole feeling, like this is happening. We dispel the chantment of disenchantment. We wake up into sacred world, and we realize, we are blessed. We get to do this, we are blessed that we get to do this. Amen.

AUBREY: Amen. And I've said this before, but all of the algorithms point towards our existential destruction. But none of the algorithms are accounting for all of the help.

JOHN: Well, they're not running Buddhic code.

AUBREY: They're not running Buddha code, and they're not aware of these higher planes.

JOHN: So if you don't run at the mental level, if you're still running the mental code, like level five code on the mental plane, which is like the... When you upload level four, which is basically heart, when you include heart, cognition, wholeness, sharing, sacredness, the whole system morphs into a completely different setup. So, there's a coding level dimension to it. So the existential risk brings us to the edge of, fuck, we need to do something. Well, what is it we need to do? Well, we need to install this code in our hearts, and in our circles, and in our friendships. Let's go.

AUBREY: Let's fucking go. John, I love you, brother.

JOHN: Love you too, brother. Quick plug, right?


JOHN: Yeah, yeah. So for those who are interested in our conversation, I'm going to offer an introduction to planetary dharma, the path of the rainbow warrior like a weekend online. December 1, 2, 3rd. And, you can access it through And we will post that link on the notes. And, Karuna, this is our school that has endorsement from the Dalai Lama. And essentially, Karuna means compassion. It is one of the facets of this Buddhic plane.

AUBREY: And the Bodhisattva, it's the driving force, the Bodhisattva. Beautiful.

JOHN: So, if you want to just get a a little taste, come join us. We'll do it online. You'll get a good taste of what we're doing.

AUBREY: Fuck yeah. Thank you, brother. Love you, guys. We'll see you next week.