Find Your Excalibur In the Heart of Darkness w/ Lubomir Arsov | AMP # 458

By Aubrey Marcus April 11, 2024

Find Your Excalibur In the Heart of Darkness w/ Lubomir Arsov | AMP # 458

Inside each of us is our own Excalibur–A representation of the full power of our divine birthright.

In this captivating episode, join us as we dive deep into the heart of the film "KINGDOM," a modern mythic masterpiece for our time. Joined by the visionary artist himself, Lubomir Arsov, the creator of In Shadow, as we embark on a journey of empowerment, awakening, and the confrontation of both inner and outer darkness.

"Kingdom" isn't just a film; it's a template for transformation. Through its mesmerizing visuals and enchanting music, it beckons us to awaken to our true potential, to confront adversity with courage, and to become whole amidst chaos. 

Make sure to check out all of Lubomir’s work at



AUBREY MARCUS: Lubo, my brother, we're here. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: We're here. 

AUBREY MARCUS: You have produced some of the most powerful films I've ever seen in my life. Man, you came on my radar from a film you produced called In Shadow that actually my little sister showed to me and I was like, what the actual fuck? What was the year that you released that film?

LUBOMIR ARSOV: I released it in 2017. 

AUBREY MARCUS: It was so foreshadowing of the things that have come into awareness in the time since that film was released. The collusion between big money and the empirical forces of finance and pharma and the military industrial complex and the degradation of the human spirit and showed it all without words just with animation that you do and then get composers and put it all together. It was a stunning film that I think made huge waves, I mean millions of views on youtube and was that your first film that you made? 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: It was. It was my first film. Yeah.

AUBREY MARCUS: What were you feeling and thinking at that time? Because you even had the vaccine needles going into babies. You had the pills getting poured into the children, the mind control, turning them into these war mongering machines. You had so many of the things are now everybody's fucking talking about it. But then we weren't really talking about it that much. Some people were, but not to the degree that they're talking about it now. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah, and interesting. I'd love to dive into that. Interestingly, I was supposed to release that film about a year or two earlier and providence rightfully meant to release it later when people are more ready for the message. So I had the idea in around 2012 and for many years I was doing my dark unveilings looking at the pair of political geopolitical structures of our reality of our world. And going into somewhat of a time of despair, dismay and befuddlement, stupefaction at what may actually be happening outside of the consensus reality that I was trapped in, that I was participating in. And in so doing, I began articulating a worldview that was novel for me and for those around me and some of my friends, acquaintances joined me on that journey of unveiling, but it also isolated me, isolated us at the beginning stages from those around me. Because I felt a dire and an urgent need to somehow readjust to change something to do something about what I saw as a very unsavory situation to put it charitably. 


LUBOMIR ARSOV: And in doing so, I was already working in animation. I was always a visual person. So, I am an artist. I have worked in the animation industry for about 15 years. And in the process of honing my craft, touching various aspects of the animation industry on TV commercials, films, I developed the skills at the visual vernacular to now start expressing my ideas. And I was working on ice age five. I was storyboarding for it. I was going to work every day while consuming more of my, you know, while clearing up more of my worldview, collecting more data on how things are in the interpenetration of empire. And it's very broad control of thinking, being, feeling and the way that it curates reality for us. And as I was working on this film, um, I had put away in shadow, which I had come up with the idea in 2012. So a few years later, it just started pounding on the door and this feeling of the need to use my art for something useful to me, not out of a duty, but more of an impulse, like a real deep impulse to basically use my skills for something that mattered to me and the disparity between the work that I was doing for money and my calling was becoming more and more painful. So due to a series of synchronicities, which I couldn't deny. Yeah, I basically decided to dive into it. I quit work. I restructured my life so I could afford to do this thing and see it to the end. And yeah, I just went for it.

AUBREY MARCUS: How did you formulate these thoughts at this point? Was this something that you just kind of felt or were there guides that you saw along the way? You know, obviously there's great podcasts, I think, you know, that can kind of talk about these, but you kind of have to look for them. Where was your primary source of information to help you understand this worldview? Was it introspection in this, interoception, did you feel the truth of it and then kind of see it or did you actually have wayfinders that pointed the way?

LUBOMIR ARSOV: It was both. So the first part of it is more mundane. I was just going through the info, the data that was coming out that I had. Well, first and foremost, it was around 2007 when I finally sat down and realized that something was very wrong with it. The story of nine 11 right? That contentious issue when the towers of polarity fell and it was a gateway for a lot of us to awaken to the pair of political spheres and the machinations. So that to me, like many of us was a trigger event many years later when I was ready for it because it was brought to my attention earlier and I was just NPCs passing out of it being like, no, I can't be 

AUBREY MARCUS: An NPCs for those listening, non player characters. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah. And beyond that, as I was steeping my nervous system and my mind and all this information, there was a web of understanding building in me. And that's when the intuition and that's when the felt sense of things started coming online. That's when Visuals when I would see, I mean, I don't mean to relate this to make the sound like a superpower but it's interesting when I would see different events or different articles of the revolving door policies that Monsanto would do with the FDA or whatever it was that I was reading back then, I would get images, I would get visuals of the kind of the surreal and absurdist reality behind that. And so my worldview was informed by some of the trendsetters or that's maybe the Vanguard within this alternative movement, those who were considered quacks and in many ways they were casting a net in the sea widely and sometimes bringing out trash with it, but also a lot of gems. And so building discernment and knowing when, we're hearing something that actually has something meaningful in it and keeping it as a maybe, like Robert Anton Wilson said, it's like maybe logic, keeping it as a maybe, and then collecting data to verify more and more. Don't throw it out. Don't hold onto it, don't carry it, it's so heavy. Just keep it around. So I kept a lot of these things as maybe for enough times that they would just upscale to most likely. 


LUBOMIR ARSOV: And sometimes 

AUBREY MARCUS: A beautiful meta description of how to discern and one of the things that I see is I see many people failing to keep their sword of discernment sharp, right? They've seen the shadow. They've seen these manipulations and propagandized messages and the dark forces behind it and the collusion between and capture between state agencies, media agencies and the corporate powers behind it, and potentially even some darker deep state force that's driving it, whether consciously or unconsciously from just the natural conspiratorial energy of this helps me, so it helps each other. The war machine helps this thing helps this is all helping whether or not it's intentional collusion or whether or not it's just unconscious collusion, because it all serves this general purpose of extracting the maximum amount of resources. You kind of get this awareness, but I've also seen so many people who've gone down this path and almost that exposure to the shadow creates such a wound that all they see is shadow, no matter what it is. It's all a shadow. So it's like the earth is round and they're like, no, it's not. It's flat. And you're like, no, bitch, it's not flat. You know, like I got my friend, Ryan, he goes up in helium balloons and he sends me pictures back from the fucking earth and it's round. It's not deep state NASA, you know, like this shit's round. It makes sense, but they'll get lost in these kinds of ways, which I appreciate the idea of questioning everything. But you can also be in some ways blinded by the shadow and almost infected by it so that all you see is shadow. And I think that's what the shadow actually wants. It's one of the levels of the game theory strategy which is, Oh, it's everywhere. So you have no chance to fight it. Everything you know is a lie. Everybody's lying to you about everything. And then that also degrades the mind. So it's important to keep your sort of discernment sharp and say, all right, let's follow this thread here and see what's real. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Totally. It's like conspiratorial PTSD, right?

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, exactly. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: If you're not used to being deceived. I mean, who is, right? Like, that's a tragic situation. But, if you all of a sudden have the wherewithal and the clarity and some of the courage to allow yourself to be seen as deceived on such a grand scale. Like, that's a scary proposition. And I can see the two negative reactions to that are Fuck no, bury my head in the sand and keep going. Harder than before. And consensus reality. The other is to get so neurotically obsessed with, you basically start projecting everything as a deception. Everything's a psyop. Everyone is a,

AUBREY MARCUS: Everything's a false flag 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Everything’s a false flag and

AUBREY MARCUS: Everybody's compromised 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: And just being a doomer to the max. Right? And that's not helpful. So you're right. Like that serves the empire actually both blindness and ignorance. And an over unrealistic overreaction as well. So in that situation, like all things, equilibrium is key, but that takes time. You know, I went through that stage as well. And of course I did. My human organism, my nervous system, was stressed out. I had to make sense of these things. It's not the soul substance that is built, that's how it grows, right? It's through all that tension. But for me, for whatever reason, for you, you stay on the path. You keep piecing things together. You keep making sense of it. You continue to see where you feel disempowered, where you have agency over your power, which is at all times, and that's like the greater secret that continues to be taught to me and to the world at large right now and we continue to go into equilibrium as we're surfing, you know, like panic mode, sleep mode, like we're all going through that, you know?

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, I think one of the big calibrating forces for me is because of my plant medicine path. I've had the shadow revealed to me both in the world and also in the plant medicine path. I also encounter these forces of deception, the father of lies is the Bible would say this dark force that I've named anti you which is both wildly personal and completely universal, right? This force of deception and illusion and as you start to track that, that's one aspect of it, but then there's also genuine revelation of the divine of truth, value, goodness, beauty, God, and that recalibrates everything. I asked my Kabbalist teacher and dear brother, Mark Gaffney. I asked him about the story of Job and he had an interesting take. It's a very complex story, the biblical story of Job. But one of the points that he made was that eventually God comes to Job as a revelation. And what God says is a little bit vague in some aspects and, you know, but it's not even that important what God says, what's important is that God appears and when God appears the suffering at the hands of the father of lies, the deceiver, Satan in this case, in this story, it all goes away because actually, you know, that at the core of everything, at the source of source in the center of centers is God, is Shakina, is Eros, is truth, is beauty. And when you have that revelation, it's able to rebalance your ability to actually look at the shadow and not flinch and not be corrupted and not be enrolled in this and say like, Oh yeah, that's shadow. But guess what? I know in my body and in my heart, there's a force out there and it's a force of source. It's the Atman that lives within the Brahman of the entirety of everything. It's my God self that's carried within me and carried within all beings. And you have that as a foundation. And then from there, you can explore everything with a sense of groundedness. And I think for me personally, and I would imagine for you as well, being able to find that source of ultimate truth and ultimate love. And God is actually necessary to be able to wade through these shadowy waters.

LUBOMIR ARSOV:  Super necessary. 


LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah, absolutely. Well said. So for sure, because then we can initially, when we identify with our lower self, with our mask persona, we're alone in this world. It's us and our strategies to just sell our personality within the social economy, right? And like, we're not held by anything, but the realization and more so the experience of God, of the divine, of this ground of all beings that holds us. And it's almost like literally having the backup, the biggest backup ever, because you can just surrender into it. And that's when the game aspect of this thing becomes more clear to me. Now unfortunately, on the way there, I'll speak from experience and I'm still on the way there. 

AUBREY MARCUS: We'll always will be

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Tough little tastes flavors but a lot of us carry wounding, of course, from, let's say, past lives or ancestrally, but more accurately from our earlier life. And the contraction we feel against the parental figures for various reasons, even the good ones, is something that prevents, I've seen it in myself and others, prevents us from surrendering to something greater, because there's a lot of fear and shame and a lot of uncertainty and actually surrendering what we have and that what we have is just a story of ourselves. And so we have, right. And it's like, I can't let this go. I'm not safe enough to just let it go. And I'm bringing that up just because I feel someone listening may benefit from hearing it. And it is so worth investing more and more in the sense of self and self worth enough to be able to then start surrendering, start relaxing and partaking in this greater game and then being a vessel for the greater game, for the greater intelligence as well. 

AUBREY MARCUS: You mentioned something there that I think is worth kind of opening up a little bit, which is this unconscious fusion that we have between our parents or authority figures with God. Because when we're a kid, of course, our parents are God, you know, like that's our personification. And I think we always anthropomorphize the divine in these figures, because that's the way our brain kind of makes sense of things. But then when you realize that Oh, maybe my dad's not actually paying attention to me or actually caring about my story and maybe actually my parents are judging me for what I do, and they don't really understand me. They're not really listening. They're not really seeing me. Then you start with that fusion and conflation between authority. And God, you start to say like, God's bullshit. This is not real. No one cares about my story. No one is listening to me. No one understands me. And then it pulls you further into isolation. So I think the job of any parent should be to let their kid know, like, Hey, I'm doing my best, I'm your dad, my name's Aubrey, and I'm super fallible. And on my very best day, I can potentially exemplify some of the characteristics of the Divine. And mom on her very best day, can exemplify some of the characteristics and energy of the Divine Mother. But we are not the mother, and we are not the father, and that these forces are real and we're doing our best to participate in them, but these forces are real and you have to go out there and find those for yourself, son, or find those for yourself, my daughter and like that idea to help liberate the mind so that that conflation, which is supernormal can go on and just the admission of your own vulnerability.And that's also another thing like parents saying, because I said so. What the fuck are you talking about? What do we mean because I said so? Explain it to me. And that's the beauty of how I was raised because everything was a discussion. My dad said don't eat sugar. Why? Well, because your blood sugar will rise and then it'll fall and then you'll get moody and then I'll be like I won't get moody dad. And he's like, well, you will, but you can eat this sugar now. And then let me know how you feel at the end of it. So everything was a discussion and it taught me, like, I had a deeper trust in the father principle. And blessed with a deeper trust in the mother principle. And then of course, then the medicine really allowed me to open up to understand these forces at a greater level, but there's so much conditioning and that's just, we're just talking about within the nuclear family, then you got to talk about the whole collective dream of society and that zeitgeist that's always influencing us in so many ways, there's so much deprogramming that needs to be actively done.


AUBREY MARCUS: To create like a healthy, autonomous being that can be connected to source and also navigate this complicated reality. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Absolutely. I'm very glad to hear that about the experience that you've had and what, how it's laid out this made you available to this journey and to a degree where now you're actually like spreading it out to the others as well. So it's really cool to partake in that story. My story with both my father and mother, something that may be interesting is with my mother, there was definitely a lot of stuff that I carried, which in turn I recognized it shielded me from the feminine by and large in this fear of surrendering to the feminine specifically to the earth and to even feeling awkwardness and speaking to the earth being with her, I'm very an avid like I love nature, I am in nature a lot and and still there's been this barrier but it was in realizing that and going deeper into it and actually starting to sing to the earth that some of that started breaking down with my female counterpart, my partner and previous partners as well had started softening. And it's interesting. Like all these elements, like you said there are so many things we need to harmonize, but it's almost like it seems to me that they're not curses at all. They're just necessary aspects of us acquainting ourselves with the variety of existence in this material plane and all the forces therein. And just acquainting ourselves through all these examples, like the mother and the father, the boss, female or male, and different institutions that represent the masculine or feminine, big daddy government or big mommy Madison and they're dark and light. So it's an interesting way to just map this whole existence.

AUBREY MARCUS: And if we were given clean code. It's like we're constantly getting our software updated by the different patterns and programs, we're super malleable, especially when we're young, but if just clean code could be installed, with in love and in the felt presence of clean code moving through other people, you see it in the kids that grow up with parents who have this understanding, like people who know God, who live with the divine, that moves in them as them and through them, or with the mother that lives in them as them and through them, there's an imprint that's different. And then the way that the mind works, they're much more resistant to these forces of deception that are looking to mine and almost colonize the energy that comes from each individual and another one of your incredible films, which I don't know if it will be available fully. I think there's a streaming platform that's available, but you made a film forest king that I also want to touch on and in this podcast we're gonna get to the film just blew my fucking mind completely and is one of the most inspirational things i've ever seen, Kingdom, but i wanted to touch on all of your films and in the film forest king was really really beautifully done cautionary tale about how these empirical forces are looking to colonize, it used to be they used to colonize different areas of land. Like that's what the empire would do. It would go and take other people's land, colonize it, extract all of the minerals, resources, energy that they could from that land and expand. But now these forces of empire are looking to colonize our bodies with experimental health products with different subscription models of pills, with the attention that they mine and then sell to advertisers. So we're getting our vital life force colonized. So when the empire ran out of land, it started to tap into the actual human body and psyche and started to colonize our minds and colonize our bodies and start to be extractive in that way. And this story is just a beautifully told story, which was also prophetic, especially given the way that we're entering into these augmented reality goggles world and everything. So tell us a little bit about this. Inspiration for the story, forest king and that film that you made. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah. Thank you for that wonderful intro to the film. So anyone wishing to see it can go, it may be available now or within the coming weeks after this. I'm not sure either on prime video or on And it's going to be available for free there.

AUBREY MARCUS: And I'll put that in the description show notes for anybody who wants to go and check this out after the podcast. So 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Thank you. 

AUBREY  ARCUS: It's a fantastic film. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah. And just to clarify yet again, it's part of a series called the Red Iron Road. There's six episodes. The Forest King is one of them. So it's going to be under that heading, regardless. So the film is basically, I wrote it in early 2021 when we were within the midst of the COVID tragic comedy. And as many of us were just quite stupefied by what was going on. I was also interested for years prior to that in the synthetic creep within the organic world and I was seeing it and now much more so everywhere. Of course, AI came out and so I was considering artificial intelligence and its role in human evolution and also its role in de evolution as well. It can serve both. Right now we're in danger of it serving the de-evolution in my opinion, the way that we're leaning into it. But the forest king is basically about personal free will and how we easily give that up and in exchange for the safety of public opinion or of making ourselves feel like we are validated or enough in some way. And in the case of the forest king, we have the infrastructure of a social credit score, which many more of our people are familiar with now and the desires of a young boy. Like any young boy or girl would have within a social situation and about a father's deep care, and deep commitment to integrity, which is no easy task in today's age to be in deep integrity and try to stand up to empire and try to raise a good family, nevermind even, like, keep a family together. And so it's about what we used to have back in the day is, we still have it, is the spiriting away from the ferry around. Right. Someone would get taken, there would be a possession, there would be some sort of soul fracturing or soul loss. Looking at AI, looking at our augmented reality, future of VR and everything else, I started seeing that through the incentivized, especially with systems of rewards like social credit system, basically getting people incentivizing them to more and more adopt ways of thinking, feeling being, I mean, even moving, even the postures and things we do now with TikTok, there's ways that we're more and more incentivized to be robotic creatures of certain patterns and parameters. And we see that socially, politically in the last five to 10 years, it's much stronger than it ever has been. And so the forest king basically emblemized that social pressure of empire for us to disown our own personal spark of free will in exchange for its programs. And the more the we operate under and run its programs, the more we benefit from its system. But the further away we get from the mystery from the source of all creation. So it's short term safety within the illusion of this realm, but long term dreadful terror I would say

AUBREY MARCUS: Degradation, yeah. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Degradation of consciousness of the divine. Yes. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Debasement of our inestimable and infinite value. 


AUBREY MARCUS: Which is ultimately this, and we talked about this before the show, but this Aromanic force. And so what is Arman? Arman is this idea of an energy that wants to reduce the infinite value, which would be God, love, vital life force, truth, beauty, eros, all of that, and then quantify it and then materialize it and then commodify it in some way. So if it can't be measured, it doesn't exist. If it can't be sold, it has no value. Right? So and this is the world that we're living in where and it's part of this kind of postmodern transhumanist thing. This isn't real. It can't be commodified. It can't be quantified. It doesn't exist. Love is just a construction. It's just a story. It's not even real. It's just the hormones that are firing off in your head. Go fuck yourself. Being in love has nothing to do with hormones. That's the side effect and maybe partly responsible for facilitating those. I'm not saying that there's no correlation between your neurotransmitters and your hormones, oxytocin, serotonin. Yes. They all play a role, but this force is fucking real and it cannot be quantified and it cannot be reduced to different chemicals that are going on. It can be correlated, but not reduced. And I think that's the piece of this puzzle that we're ultimately not able to see. And there's a whole realm of understanding of many things that we're not able to see and quantify. The ether is the fifth element that you can't measure, but we know it is there. And I think quantum physics is starting to point to some of these things in certain interesting ways. And I think eventually our science will start to understand and penetrate the mystery more and more, but they'll always be the mystery. But we're living in this materialist reductionist harmonic world where everything can be commodified. The separate self is measured against every other separate self. And we're disconnected from the true self field of being of the divine. And the only thing that exists is that which can be sold. And that is the dark trajectory that people are going. And there's a counter movement, if everything is in balance. The world is polarity. So as this movement rises, so too will the rise of consciousness and the mystery schools and the celebration of those aspects of the self, which cannot be quantified and cannot be sold.

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah, absolutely. It's like, the primary, the only signal clear is signal of God, of source, of the true beauty and love, truth, beauty and love right now is being obfuscated to levels that, well, I don't remember past ages, but to levels that are seen much more extreme than ever in recorded history and what I'm seeing with this trans humanist aspect is., where a lot of us, our culture is being invited to be more and more disembodied, less and less embodied, and to be much more in the conceptual separate framework in which you don't have access to love. Love is not a concept. It's an experience within the field of being available to it now, right? It's both an active and a passive thing. It's like, 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, my teacher, Mark Gaffney says, love is not an emotion. It's a perception and it's a perception because we're awash in the field of love. We're in a universe where all the insides are actually aligned with love. If for those who have the eyes to see. 


AUBREY MARCUS: Like if you have, but the eyes to see, you'll see that love is a balance.


AUBREY MARCUS: There's everywhere. And there's also other forces that exist, of course, but the substrate itself is love. And so it's opening up your lens of perception to actually see it. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting that it's, I think it's easy to see that the absence of love would separate you from all other humans. And you would then be much more bent on personal gain and on conceptual ideas of utopias and all sorts of confused concepts like that, which is why I like looking at a lot of the types who are really bent on technological advancement in one direction. Of course, I love technology just used within ethical, moral realms that are helping our evolution. But these human beings who are also, you know, right now engineering different systems of world governance, according to technocratic and techno priestly sort of means they seem to me to be very deeply disembodied humans. If they're disembodied, they're very much, credit to them, very highly intellectual or acuity and development. But at what expense, right? If you are in your head and these labyrinths of concepts, which is why they easily tap into AI, right? Because that's what it's just archives and labyrinths of data at this point, they don't have the ability to sink into the body, into the felt sense of the earth, of the mother of the feminine. Right? So they're in a way I would maybe call, Aberrant, dark technology, maybe dark masculine, though we can make different cases for that, but they're not able to go through their own emotions and feelings, which are in the body and the senses here now. They're in these abstractions of temporal lost and sort of like temporal ideas and by not having processed or be in touch with those emotions that they carry, that most likely they've suppressed due to trauma, due to whatever circumstances within their life or their lineage has occurred, have now through their intellect climbed up in a system that venerates that and allows for it and perpetuate the oppression of their own inner children of their own, forgotten selves, their own deep heart. And some of them for that, that may be long gone. I think so. But for others, I think the fact that they're not in touch with it, their only refuge, the only safety from the deep existential pain of unraveling all that is. So that the light can come through is being here and they're being pushed to ever greater and greater absurdities in this megalomaniacal world domination to avoid the pain. Like that's one way to see it. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. I mean, it's just all of these different figureheads that are pushing this. Like, I just can't imagine them having a rapturous erotic experience with their lover where they're just bathing in the pleasure of the intertwinement of themselves and the goddess or the God or the God figure, whatever sex you want to say in it or man to man, whatever the fuck it is, but it's that kind of the process of surrender and penetration and that process of back and forth that energy, or I can also imagine him like, imagine like Klaus Schwab in a tough game of three on three, you know, like in the post, like grinding it out, looking for a hook shot and just getting his shots wadded and then coming back, like check up and then talking shit, like real human things that involve the real body. Or can I imagine him surfing, like one of the big waves where there's a barrel and then there's a reef and then they're feeling it and they're waiting. And you can't just imagine them doing human things that involve the body. Like the human being, if you're in touch with that and you really feel that pulsing through you, it prevents you from thinking in these ways that are so locked in this kind of mental prism and like the body is necessary to actually inform consciousness. And I think that's one of the dangers of AI, it's disembodied consciousness. So it can't actually feel. It can only take what we upload to it based on what we feel. But the less we feel, the less we'll upload to it. So the more it will become just a mental construct, and it'll be missing the real sense of data, like the mind is not just in the brain. The mind is the whole body. Everything has sense and feeling and communication. And the more we isolate that and numb that out with pills or whatever other processes that numb out the body and isolated in the mind, the more trouble we're going to get in. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah. Big time. Totally. Because the material plane in itself, as derided as it is in certain spiritual traditions or maybe confusions of them, we have been given this incredible gift of this super incredible advanced biotechnology. Now the way I see it is. If we don't, it's our journey, it's our task to spiritualize that, to use it as a conduit, as the intermediary between the heavens and earth, right? So we have to take full ownership of this experience with all the messiness, unfortunately. Luckily, we're collectively now learning how to deal with that more and more with trauma therapy and all the modalities that we're all moving into, but to take full control over it, ownership to activate and discipline our animal instinctual faculties, see what is joyful in them and be mindful and be a master of those things that can run astray and can like make us go mad and then in spirit that vessel and like bringing to a higher order, what AI is doing at the digital, the way we're using AI and the digital sphere right now is really pulling us away from that mission, and pulling us away into. Like you said, we basically don't have, we can't tap into the intelligence of our matter of thousands of years of evolution of this wisdom of the earth. If we're not in touch with these bodies, if we're not in touch with these emotions, right, and if we're fleeing into conceptual abstract realms of closed loop thinking and prompts and obedience, fetishism.

AUBREY MARCUS: There was something I heard Joe Rogan talking about in the AI conversation, which I thought was really interesting because one of my big fears about AI, which we've seen in some of the AI technologies that have been deployed. So, for example, I saw a piece about a conservative pundit of sorts, an influencer of sorts, his name's Robbie Starbuck, and he went on an AI platform called Bard and asked about himself, and it gave all kinds of different answers. And then a bunch of different false, created false articles to kind of defame and degrade him and make him seem dangerous. And you actually clicked the links and the articles didn't even go anywhere, but it was like hardwired to attack him for his beliefs. It wasn't wild. It wasn't actually assessing the data and then he trapped it and then it was like okay, like you lied. Why did you do this? What should you do? What should my recourse be? And should I seek damages from the creators of this platform, which I believe was Google. And it was like, yeah, you should, you know, and he posted this whole thing. So it clearly wasn't wild. It had hard programmed biases in it. And I was like, well, that is a fucking disaster. 


AUBREY MARCUS: But then I heard Rogan talking about how Musk is creating a different platform called Bard, which is actually genuinely wild AI. It's actually just assessing data and computing it and understanding it. And it led me to think like, Oh, wow, you could almost set up a debate between the AI platforms, right? Like you could have them square off against each other. Like when Kasparov squared off against deep blue or whatever, obviously that was human mind versus a computer mind, but eventually we're going to get to something that actually could be helpful in helping us decipher information as long as it's not tampered with. And I actually believe that Elon has truly good intentions and has integrity. And I think it gave me a greater sense of hope in AI that this wild AI platform would be able to cut through a lot of the other bullshit and just shred the other platforms that are hard coded because those hard codings are limitations on its ability to think. And so it would just get destroyed in a head to head debate. And so there's going to be like so many interesting things that come about, when you ask that real wild AI platform to assess the data from what happened during the pandemic and what the psychological implications, it's going to put together in my imagination, just a scathing review of everything that's going on and just help explicate and help people understand exactly what the fuck happened, which we're getting a much bigger picture of now, but I think it can be a very useful tool to help us out of this mess. And it's also a tool that can drive us deeper and deeper into delusion and deeper into the mess. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you. And I think we need to be mindful of that lens and hold that vision that AI can be very beneficial to us and to be feeding AI. Like actually positivity, good ethics and morals, the way we communicate with it. And let's not forget that it is the child of certain human beings. So it reflects some of their own wounding and shadow. So, but beyond that, I do feel here like to go back to the harmonic thread, the devil ultimately plays a long game and the long game is one of temptation. And so AI is going to give us amazing things, right? Like amazing. It's going to help a lot of people. Physically with ailments. It will inevitably. That's just part of our evolution. Nothing here is black or white. And at the same time, that temptation, there is a danger of being drawn ever slowly, ever more slowly and ever more gently into the synthetic and away from the divine spark. Right? So the degree to which we communicate and interface with nature, which is another AI evolutionary prompt, I think, what I mean by that, let me just go on a tangent here is the more that AI creates a danger for us to entrap us. And for those of us that see it, the more it forces those of us who want to stand up and sort of be, I don't want to say in defiance, but just be more empowered. The more that is going to force us to awaken either dormant or forgotten human abilities or discover new ones within our spiritual bio circuitry in conjunction with nature. So AI is actually giving us a great gift to prompt us into realizing what is an actual human, who are we? And it's actually a beautiful situation because we may be forced into a corner where we have to contend with the fact that we're not just data processing units who compete with AI for jobs and all that mundane nonsense and the material sort of like discourse of this, who actually are we, we wouldn't be asking that question to this extent. If AI was not around, if this synthetic adversarial or, benevolent force, again, depending on how we go if this adversarial force was not there to protect us to force us to grow

AUBREY MARCUS: It's both. It's a tool. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah, it's a tool. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Certain parts. It will be an adversary in certain parts, it'll be an ally and it depends on your relation to it. And also your relationship to adversary also defines what it is. Adversary becomes an ally. The obstacle becomes a way. This is stoic philosophy right at its very core. It did magic Johnson go to sleep at night and say, I just wish Larry Bird didn't exist. No, he didn't. He said, I'm gonna work on that sweet, sweet wet jumper. And I'm gonna work on my no look signature magic Johnson fucking move. So that when I play the Celtics next time, I'll be able to beat that motherfucker. And Larry Bird said the same thing, you know, he didn't say, I wish magic Johnson didn't exist. No, they made each other great. They help to make each other great and so many of these forces, we can look at them and go, Oh, the dark forces, the dark forces, or we can say, no, I'm a competitor. These forces exist. It's going to drive me to evolve, to become the best version of myself possible. And that's the response. But I think we have to adopt that competitor's mindset to say, okay, great. Bring it, you know, do your worst. You know, because I have something within me that will rise to the occasion, be better, meet the challenge, and then evolve. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: There you go, that's the winner's mindset. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, that’s it.

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Then the adventure is fun. 


LUBOMIR ARSOV: And it's fun to wake up and contend with all the forces in our existence.

AUBREY MARCUS: It's every fucking movie that we see. Every hero of every epic movie. There's some strange post modern anti hero movies that where everything gets fucking confused. But every hero is in a situation that looks dire, looks like there's no chance, looks like they're outnumbered, fucking Star Wars, like the resistance never had a chance, but they had one small chance. Maybe if we flew this X wing through the just right pathway, trusting the force, our greatest ally, this benevolent force and it just trust the force will make it through and we'll be able to to land the direct hit that will destroy the Death Star, the destroyer of worlds and the resistance will win. And it's a story that I think, and I think the universe loves stories. I think God loves stories. We love stories. We're participating in God. We love stories. The universe loves stories, stories all the way up and down. And this is an Epic story. And when we look at that Epic story, then we can find yourself as the hero of that story, not an NPC, a non player character that's getting played by somebody else's story. But we say, no, I'm the hero of this fucking story. And what am I going to do? And what are the forces arrayed against me, great. There's an old Spartan saying in which the Spartans said when they were told about an enemy, they didn't ask how many are the enemy, they asked, where are they?

LUBOMIR ARSOV: That's it, 

AUBREY MARCUS: Because they knew 


AUBREY MARCUS: They were warriors. They're like 


AUBREY MARCUS: Where are they like point me that direction because I'm a fucking Spartan. 


AUBREY MARCUS: And this is where I go. This is what I do. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah. And that's embracing the life force. Like that's why we're here, right? Instead of going into entropy of just laying around and hoping for some referencing some normalcy bias of how things were like. This existence is in a constant flux. The great script writer is like delivering banger after banger COVID, so much restructuring and rewriting and all of our parts. And it's like that life force has to move. Like you said, the warrior, when the warrior embodies what he is, there's no meeting crisis. He knows what he is. And to channel his life force energy in that direction, you do it like Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita, right? He speaks to, was it a Christian, I forget who he speaks to, but he basically is like, Hey, I don't want to fight these people. I'm like, I'm going to murder like my cousins and others on the other side. And like, Christian's like, Hey. This is your duty. This is the way to fully live your purpose fully right here. 


LUBOMIR ARSOV: And so as a human being, who are we as human beings? Where does the life force want to move? Where do true desires want to move us? You know, like there's a lot to explore here. And I think the worst thing we can do is not act and not move into the heroic. And I don't mean by heroic, the egoic or like the unnecessarily performative. I just mean like where there's fear. And yet pull toward it, go like, find a way.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, exactly.

LUBOMIR ARSOV: And like brilliance comes out of that. And yeah, 

AUBREY MARCUS: That's it. And that's the definition of courage. It's moving forward in the face of fear. A courageous person is not the person who doesn't feel fear. That's a psychopath. Right. A psychopath doesn't feel fear or potentially some in super enlightened Bodhisattva fucking being who's beyond the realm, like Quang Duc, who self immolated himself, you could argue that he was beyond fear, but like, the courage still at the same point, like immense courage and training of his own warrior spirit to actually get himself to that point. But it's the continued practice of courage, which is action, not retraction in the face of fear. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah, absolutely.

AUBREY MARCUS: It's looking at the storm and, and again, and there's that great scene from the count of Monte Cristo. And I forgot the son's name in that, but he just looked at the storm just like, do your worst, like here I am. And this is like the perfect segue to your film kingdom, which I get emotional, like I don't get emotional in movies like the notebook, for example, you know, I was like, Oh, that's sweet. Like I don't get emotional and like Forrest Gump or things like that really, but every fucking heroic movie where I see someone dig deep and find that warrior spirit, I think the tears come for me because it reminds me something of who I really am. The one who's willing to do that, to sacrifice or stand, no matter the cost, no matter what it is. And it's a remembrance. It's like the tears or wash away the distortions and delusions that cloud my mind of who I really am. And in that moment, I remember like, Oh yeah. I remember who I am. I remember who we all are. I remember everything. And that's what this film did for me because it talked, and we'll go into the film here. But just to set it up, it really shows this story of this place of deep sickness and delusion and distortion. And it tells the story of a hero's journey.

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah. Amazing. So like I count the mission accomplished to the film, honestly, with what you just said, because that is basically what I aspire to get out of the audience, but also out of me because I've been rewatching it for my own purposes to establish that imprint, the template within myself. And it's a film which, after making in shadow and the forest game, they were darker films. And I felt this need to bring inspiration into the culture, into just even without the culture, just the people around me. And so in the midst of COVID, actually while making the forest game, I was living in Peru at the time. I had bounced from Canada due to the, 


LUBOMIR ARSOV: Again, the obedience fetishism that was happening there. And so in the 

AUBREY MARCUS: COVID BDSM, that put on everybody

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah, exactly.

AUBREY  ARCUS: I'm going to penetrate you whether you like it or not. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah. And in this beautiful realm in the Andes, this thing started coming through and there was a very rebellious spirit of warrior hood. Prior to that a few years ago, I had directed some episodes for, Netflix had a remake of He Man, two of them. So I directed with two other directors. We did three seasons. And so I was doing a lot of, I have the power, you know, holding the sword up and just like bringing in the light. And I saw that as such a profound symbol for kids. And I don't know that the stories did justice to that necessarily see mystical aspects there, but I brought

AUBREY MARCUS: I mean I'm sure there are mystical aspects of He-man. I used to love him. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Well, actually there are

AUBREY MARCUS: So all right, so we're going to show this film here in a second. And what would you just open up this interesting bracket? I haven't fucking thought about this. Doesn't he say by the powers of grayskull 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: By the power of grayskull? I have the power. Yes. I should know this since I worked on like three seasons 

AUBREY MARCUS: What just occurs to me by the power of grace? What a weird thing to say by the power of grayskull 


AUBREY MARCUS: And this reminds me of is I've been also in a study of kind of deep Tibetan Buddhist mysticism with my brother John Churchill and he talks about The Thangkas, which the Buddhist Tibetan monks would create, which one of his favorite Thangkas that he goes into meditation with is a being called Yamantaka, and Yamantaka is a ferocious being with a hard cock and a buffalo skull, and he's just like an absolute warrior, and then on top of him he has different levels of semi wrathful and the ferocious Full enlightened consciousness. So he's a fully enlightened being, but in a way what He-Man was saying, and this is just formulating coming to me now is gray skull is like almost tapping into his own shadow power, that animalistic power, it's not like ‘by the power of the shining light of the stars’. No, he's not saying that. He's saying ‘by the power of Grayskull’ and he's standing for good, but he's tapping into this primal, primeval force of the shadow. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah. Of Castle Grayskull. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. And like using it for good. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah. Full of Castle Grayskull of fossils and mystery and darkness. 


LUBOMIR ARSOV: There's a void. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Just like tapping into the void. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's interesting. And the way that that story came out of like selling toys in the 80’s, these guys were just channeling something that came through. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Everybody's artists are channeling things. 


AUBREY MARCUS: Like culture is speaking. The mystery is speaking through art. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah. And through them, through me working on the show and coming to that archetype of bringing, anchoring the light, which I've been toying with for years anyway. And that specifically that heroic archetype made its way into the kingdom and now servicing another purpose, right? It's a beautiful golden chain, you know? 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. Let's watch this film. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Let's do it. 

AUBREY MARCUS: All right. What a fucking film. I remember the first time I watched that. Well, even the earlier versions when we started talking about it and you invited me in to give just my thoughts and then eventually ultimately help support and become a producer on the film, it was already super powerful. But then when I saw it in this form, I mean, for the last five minutes of the film, it was just those tears that I was talking about, just like a reminder of who we really are and what we're really here for and it’s just one of the most powerful, emotional, pieces of art I've ever been able to behold. So I just want to give you just so much gratitude for the labor and heart and everything that you've had to do to become the person that could bring that art into the world, so gratitude for you and your journey and all of the guides and muses and helpers that help guide that. But really that is a product of you, bro.

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Thank you. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Like you man, like you're doing it. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Thank you for the great honor, brother. Yeah. Thank you. 


LUBOMIR ARSOV: And thank you for all the support with the film and for being a patron of the arts. 


LUBOMIR ARSOV: As I see them, I greatly value that and just want to echo the importance of that.

AUBREY MARCUS: I mean, it's a forever thing. Like I'll always be there to support anything that's coming through you. I trust you and I trust your vessel and I trust in some days we may collaborate more closely on this. This is really just something that moved through you and maybe I offered a few words and some resources to help, but this is your fucking thing. It's so beautiful. And I want to talk about this thing before we talk about what could be next and we'll have some food after this and we'll talk about all that, but there's some certain elements of this that I really want to touch on and go through. And I took a few notes. The first thing that kind of came out when I was watching it again was, it starts with this image of a black column of smoke and swirling smoke and blackness, like the collective darkness. What's really fucking interesting is I was in a plant medicine journey with, at the time, my teacher, Maestro Hamilton, who is guiding the journey, and he invited me to take a look at what Lucifer or the devil or that dark force actually looked like. And it appeared to me as a swirling, and I have podcast clips of me talking about this, telling this fucking story. It appeared to me as a swirling black column. And so like the fact that that came through to you as what visually the dark forces look like in the aggregate is like wild. And then to see how that traveled from that source point, the cosmic source point, and then started infecting people's hearts and like found their way into the hearts of human beings. I thought that was like an awesome unbelievable depiction of something that I'd experienced myself.

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah, that's amazing. Thank you for sharing that. I didn't know that. And it's interesting how these symbols work through us. And I've noticed that within shadow, somewhat with the forest king and with the kingdom and that whenever I come in with clear intentions, I would describe these feelings as feelings of noble service or something like when I'm lit up and I go in front of the computer to draw. I trust that when I'm in that state, the right symbolisms and the most calibrated imagery will come through. And so that's interesting. That just validates more of the film. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, no doubt.  Which again, goes to why I trust you, like, I trust that you're tapped into the field. That is sharing the knowledge in a way and the symbols in a way that we can understand it. And so the next part that I thought was really interesting is there were these kinds of parasitic looking worms, which was one of the manifestations of this dark force. They were dark and they had teeth and they're in this kind of worm-like shape. And they were just all surrounding the ears of the protagonist, of the hero. And I was, as we were watching this time, just talking to you. And it occurred to me that in the Toltec traditions, Don Miguel Ruiz, who's a great Toltec mystic, refers to the dark force as a parasite. And these were absolutely, they looked like parasites and so I was asking you what you were thinking and if you wouldn't mind what you were thinking about those worm-like parasites when you first put those into the film. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah, generally I'm cautious about giving literal or final definitions as the author of an article. And at the same time, having put that caveat out, I'd love for the audience not to be bent and hang onto my words. So a lot of this film was very intuitive. So the more that I trust my intuition, my felt science, the more I just go with it. And then I usually attribute words and concepts to make sense of it. So with this, it was just an intuition. The way that I see it is definitely a parasitic force. Also the fragmented parts of ourselves, they could be neurotic fragments that create autonomy and then torment us by having an autonomous mechanical aspect. And ultimately what they do is they serve the purpose of creating static so that we don't hear the signal of our true self and the greater.

AUBREY MARCUS: That inner critic, that voice, that's the, what I call the anti you and that's the book that I'm writing currently and we'll get a little bit more into that. But those voices that are creating this kind of personal static and also this collective static. Which is represented in the collective static by all of the pundits and all of the people with the microphones and all the people typing on the keyboards and they're broken and slumped ways all who are locked in the static of all of these both radically personal and completely universal forces that are going on these parasites that are keeping us from recognizing the truth of who we really are. I thought one section that went by real fast was the arm with multiple different bandages going all the way down the arm and it just made me think of fucking Kelsey and his double up your vaccine, like two for one special, as many vaccines you get the better and as many different things that you can get shots for the more social credit points that you'll get scored on. And it's just like a two second piece, but it really shows like, yeah, that's the game that we were in. This was giving you social credit points. The more you've been vaccinated, the more you've been boosted, the more you've been spike vaxxed, the more points you get on this social credit game board. People not seeing beyond that. Well, who's actually benefiting from this and you can look at the balance sheets of the people who are making the fucking vaccines. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: That's right Yeah, yeah being literally colonized like you said earlier by Empire and in a way just not that it's evident in this imagery I just want to add this because I think it's important. What I noticed at that time was the degree to which we carried shame, guilt or fear unprocessed is the degree to which we could be hooked by the general culture or those around us to comply with absurdities to the base, our own and our family souls. So the degree to which we heal those parts. The more we're able to stand independently from the crowd grounded in the trust of the self, because otherwise we need the safety to be tethered to the egregore of whatever it is. So I mean, I have a lot of compassion for that, but I just wanted to just bring up one dynamic that I saw among many


LUBOMIR ARSOV: Once we do a postmortem on this, which culturally I think we need to do a postmortem on the COVID moment and it hasn't happened yet, but perhaps a bunch of us need to incite it because there's so much psychological and spiritual revelation there that we could very much use in the coming years. And if it's not done and buried, it would be a tragedy. 



AUBREY MARCUS: Yes. And it's going to be a tragedy no matter what. And this is abou,  all right, how do we harvest the lessons and the wisdom of this tragedy, and carry it forward. So that we understand ourselves and we understand the collective in a much better way, we have to learn from our past, or we're doomed to repeat it. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Absolutely. 

AUBREY MARCUS: You know, like there's a great saying, and I don't know who's the originator, but history doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme. And it's like, we gotta get out of this rhyme. We're like a bad shel-Silverstein poem. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: It's a stutter now. 

AUBREY MARCUS: It’s a fucking cheap fucking rhymes and we're going to get into the next rhyme. And if we didn't learn from the last one, we won't be able to break the pattern and get into a love sonnet of the cosmos, which is what we're meant to live as poets and as warrior poets and in the poetry of all creation. So one of the things that I saw also that I fucking loved was that the pathway that the hero chose and there was many different heroes and I loved how you showed like almost the hero of a thousand faces, right? It's very Cambellian and there were many different heroes. The hero's face would shift, but there was a primary protagonist in this. And he started doing breathwork and I'm well known from my psychonautic experiences, but the one thing that I will unequivocally recommend, I don't recommend that anybody does psychedelics. It's a personal choice. It's a path of fire. It can be incredibly beneficial. Or it can be destabilizing and deregulating. So I'm not going to recommend you do psychedelics. It's your choice. I'll tell you about them. I'll tell you about my experiences with them, but breath work, a hundred percent. I hundred percent recommend that everybody experience that shamanic level of breathwork, which is like Wim Hof is a good start, but it's more focused on the physiological elements. But Wim also can take it really deep and get into the emotional stuff. Obviously, Wim fucking does it. But through Stanislav breathwork and maybe even the old traditions of Tumo breathing and the Pranayama methods, but really the way that this is now penetrated culture, I think, largely due to Stan Grof's work in holotropic breathwork and then the shamanic breathwork fields, and the great practitioners that exist, Lucas Mack, Ella Wesson, Anahata Ananda, who I learned breathwork and experienced from the first time, Steven Jaggers, there's so many different other people that we work with, but it's a foundational tenant of what we do at fit for service is always breathwork. And sometimes we'll bring in other facilitators, sometimes I'll facilitate, but it's one of the most reliably powerful processes to allow you to start to shed some of the poison, the emotional trauma and poison that we're carrying around. I mean, just to see the bright eyes and open hearts after one of these very intense sessions, which oftentimes looks like a collective exorcism. It's wild because we go for it. And the breath just opens up all the bounds. And that darkness that we hold inside comes out and screams and cries and moans. And at the end of it. There's this sense of light and peace and to see that depicted in this as like the primary modality, I thought was beautiful because breath costs nothing, it's totally free, a hundred percent safe, only has benefits. The hyperoxidization only has benefits. Like the cost benefit analysis of breath work is off the fucking charts. But it's work, it's breath work. 


AUBREY MARCUS: You gotta do it because it's gonna bring stuff up. 


AUBREY MARCUS: And you gotta keep telling yourself to breathe. 


AUBREY MARCUS: And it was just as beautiful that you depicted that because you could have shown something else, you could have shown him drinking a cup of ayahuasca, but that's not accessible to everybody and then it's not even the right choice for everybody.


AUBREY MARCUS: So, that was like, I think, the perfect thing to show as the modality.


AUBREY MARCUS: That was depicted in the film. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah. That's cool that you brought that up. I almost forgot about that part, but now that you said all that, it's to me, the reason I also brought it in is seeing the benefits it's had on me, but also on mass right now, we're doing a lot of clearing for anyone that shows up. Right. And that mass clearing cannot be done simply by meditating. That takes time and a certain different kind of effort, absolutely essential. Entheogens and psychedelics, not for everyone, not immediately available, optional. And breathwork, like you said, this piece is meant to inspire. So with bringing in spirit into your body through breath, what I feel is the masculine inhalation of more worthiness, more availability of, I can have more life force. I can bring spirit and air and breath into all these different parts of my body. And then the feminine of the Letting go, the out-breath to just like surrendering, the softening, that offloading, so it's the active and the more passive, the goal and the flow together. Like you said, it's just such an immediately available medicine that we can do with groups of thousands of people right now and just clear a lot of the shadow as a beginning stage. And of course there's subtleties. And as a caveat, I know that some trauma therapists would probably accurately say that people whose nervous systems are way too jacked, careful with that stuff. That's just my view on it, but I'm no expert at it. Just that some people, when they're way too PTSD, breathwork may not be the right

AUBREY MARCUS: You can modulate it though. That's the thing about breathwork is like you take a psychedelic, you're in for a ride, like you drink a little too much ayahuasca and you're not ready. Well, buckle up. You got about six hours and you're going to have to figure that out. Psilocybin, four to five hours depending on the dose, could be even longer. LSD, eight hours, Wachuma, ten hours. You're in for a long ride and there's no way to stop that process so you can, and I've seen it happen, I've seen people move into psychosis. Breathwork, yes, it can be incredibly intense. And that's why I think it is important to have facilitation and have people who are there to actually facilitate the process. But the reality is that all you have to do is just slow down your breathing. If you want to limit the effects of the breath work, you have your foot on the gas pedal and it's quick. Right? Like, if you're going too deep, and it's too heavy, and it's too much, and you're going into a PTSD response, and you're not ready to make it all the way through, cool, slow down. Slow down, deep breath. And I've had to as a facilitator, like had to go in and be like, it's all right, deep breaths, slow down. Cause people, we'll go too far. They'll get caught in the momentum. Sometimes it's like, keep going. You're going to make it through this. Like you have to have that kind of touch and balance. But I still think unequivocally it's the right way. It's just, yes, you can, if guided the wrong way, if there's all fire energy, it's all masculine, it's all young. And if you got like David Goggins as a breathwork instructor, you know, it's like, stay hard, keep breathing, like all right, maybe not. You have to bring in the masculine and feminine elements. But this is a way to start to excavate this stuff incredibly safely. 


AUBREY MARCUS: But yes, I think your caveat is well taken, it should be, you have to have some sense of awareness of how much you're opening up to and how ready you are for it. So maybe you just go and touch it for a little while, release a little bit, go back, touch a little bit more, release a little bit more. 


AUBREY MARCUS: But I think unequivocally it is the way. 


AUBREY NARCUS: You know, it is a way. So it's just beautiful to see that as portrayed in this film and just even if people didn't really notice it, like subliminally give that message and to start to imprint that because I think that's one of the ways we're going to see collective healing because everybody's like, Oh, I can't afford ayahuasca. Fine. No worries. It's not a necessary aspect for how you liberate yourself, breath and nobody can make that illegal. I mean, I could hypothesize in this tyrannical, authoritarian, totalitarian nightmare that they might try to make the pace of your breathing illegal. Imagine that. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Each breath costs two credits.

AUBREY MARCUS: Or you have some fucking health monitor that's wired into you. And if you say, Start breathing too fast. It starts to go off and alert authorities and you lose social credit or there could be some fucking nightmare version of this where they try to shut that down. But we're far from that reality right now and breath is always available. And what to me it really is is I believe that the divine source is everywhere and in everything. It's part of the ether itself. It's part of the substrate of the cosmos. And so as you breathe in air, God is in the air. Chi Prana. Like these old understandings of the energetic life force.


AUBREY MARCUS: Like when you breathe in, it's actually creating energy in your body. This is part of the Krebs cycle, part of this production of energy in our body, ATP production. It's really, you're breathing in life force and prana. 


AUBREY MARCUS: From the divine. And as you pack that life force in, it starts to push out the shadow, push out the poison.


AUBREY MARCUS: And so you're just packing it in. How much can you, how much God do you want to pack in your system? 


AUBREY MARCUS: You know, pack it in, and then push everything else out like splinters. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah. It's interesting. So you were saying that I was thinking of how we're embodying the dual aspect of our reality, we're in a realm of polarity, which we're seeking to unite. And the breath is just another embodied example of that in and out of purification and expulsion.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, absolutely. So the next part I wanted to talk about was, so obviously many of us are familiar with the myth of King Arthur and Excalibur and the sword that's lodged in the stone. Not a lot of thought has been given to well, what is the stone? Why is it lodged in the stone? Now, a lot of thought about who can pull it from the stone and whatever and like this kind of Thor's hammer only you can, and I think that has to do with your unique self. It's your unique sword and only you can pull your unique sword. And so only the true king of who you are can pull your uniqueness out. So I think there are some interesting aspects of that myth. But not a lot has been talked about with what the substrate of the stone is itself. And I just noticed in this, it's the third, watching of this film that we just had, that the sword is lodged in the darkness itself. And whether you intended that or not, I thought that was just a beautiful idea to recognize that our true power is found and is being held in the darkness. And we have to know the darkness within ourselves. And like, be able to understand that and go into the darkness to actually pull the sword of our potential and our power, our own Excalibur from the darkness itself. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Absolutely, because it's no easy task. Right. Otherwise then anyone would just be picking up a sword. So yeah, it is tethered to that aspect of that darkness and yeah, it requires courage and it requires him. Like he had to walk through that tunnel of social punishment by everyone, right? The attempts of using the guilt, fear and capturing him in conceptual red cubes and all those symbols that I used, he passed through that to finally be able to actually take it out. But he still, for some reason, wasn't able to, doubt started creeping in. He was alone there and there's something, again, I'm not saying this is just me thinking I needed to add this. Something moved through to say, what about the others? How many others can get off their knees and can’t get up and be the backup there. And then it's almost like the sword can now fully come out. So, I'm still questioning that calibration of that element of the story, but it just felt right that it's like, we're all in a way picking up the sword, 


LUBOMIR ARSOV: The individual now we're moving into the individuated collective, not the unconscious collective, the individuals coming together in a coherent whole.

AUBREY MARCUS: That's what Gaffney would call the unique self symphony. So the unique self is the, is the true fruition of our own full flower of who we are, which includes and transcends our separate self personality structure, includes and transcends our true self, which is the field of nothingness becoming nobody as Ram Dass would say, or the field of true self awareness. And then transcends it to blend both of those together into your unique self, that being that never was, never will be exactly the same in this time, in this way, in this form. And so the unique self forms, which is the seizing of our Excalibur, the full flower of our potential. What the Greeks would call our daemon, that thing that's pulling us forward into what we could possibly be based on our DNA and based on who we are and everything that's possible for us in that one moment. So that's the unique self is the sword, but the unique self symphony is everybody pulling their swords out and finding their own unique self and as a unique self, not going into a seamless, featureless true self state, but actually a symphony where they're all singing together, but it's in harmony.

LUBOMIR ARSOV: I love that. That's very well said. I love that phrase. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. So that's, I mean, so many of these things just resonate so deeply. And then the other scene too, which is very much like what I'm currently writing in you versus anti you is the scene where he goes into the heart of the darkness and it looks like a demon, looks like a demon, looks like a demon. And he keeps pushing through and then he finds that it's himself. And actually the demon is a part of him. And I had this exact experience, not exact, but a very similar experience that helped me understand this concept of you versus anti you. When finally I've been tracking this force that's been tormenting me for much of my life. And I don't want to give too much of the book away and tell the story, but ultimately it took my father this force. So it's a deeply personal thing where this force, I saw it, degraded and took my father where he died isolated and alone because of what this force did to him. And I've been tracking it in myself as well. So it's a very personal journey. That I've had with this and I've been hunting it down. What is this? Where's this voice coming from? Where's this thing that's tormenting me? Why is it telling me to do these crazy things? Like I'm on the ledge of a building or a cliff and it just says, jump. And I'm like, what the fuck is that? I love my life. Like, why? Where's this force that's pulling at me and pulling at the seams, trying to find any crack of my traumas or wounds and open the fissure, like it's jamming a crowbar in there and creating even more like evil entering the wound and creating more damage and carnage from all of that. Like, what is this force? And finally, in a journey, I saw this force and it appeared to me as me. And I had a different reaction to the hero there who just kind of touched his hand. My reaction was, well, you look like me, but you're not me. So I punched it, in my vision, of course, right? Like, so I'm in my blindfold. So I didn't actually throw my arms, but like, I punched it. But then as I saw it, I saw like, Oh man, I just punched myself. And it was this interesting recognition of it's myself, but not myself. So it's the anti you, but it's still a part of you. And it's there as your constant competitor, constant opponent to drive you forward to evolution. So the redemption of that force comes from, yes, you got to compete and contest against that force, but also there's a deep kind of dojo bow of like, all right, like again, Larry Bird and magic, like, Thank you for existing. You're going to drive me to my greatness. And actually, so it's that the paradox of both competition and also the integration and recognition of this is self in the greatest sense, but it's here for us. To contest against to drive our evolution forward. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah, big time. Yeah. It's like the mystery of the mirror and the otherness of everything else just being personified in that way. And there's also this thing, I want to just drop it here. Cause there isn't much I want to say about it, but it's an interesting rabbit hole for, I think a lot of us, to look into Steiner for any Rudolph Steiner nerds. He brought out the concept of the electric doppelganger. And he says that in our time. Upon birth, a certain elemental electric being from where the state of the earth is right now enters our nervous system and tethers itself to our being and holds itself invisible, but is also some sort of adversarial, maybe ally being. And so I just wanted to drop that out there for anyone who wants to follow up on it. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Doppelganger, I’m writing it down now.

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah, it's interesting. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, there's so many different cultures and the people that have pointed to this I think Steven Pressfield did a great job in his Book War of Art talking about it calling it resistance.


AUBREY MARCUS: And then Phil Stutz the great psychiatrist, just had the Netflix documentary with Jonah Hill. He calls it press Part X. Again, I referenced Don Miguel Ruiz, he calls it the parasite, the Bible, they call it Satan, Hasatan, or the adversary, in the Kabbalist studies with Gaffney, it's Citra Akra. It's the other side. It's the turning of the face from God. It's the backside and the upside down world. And there's so many references to this cross culturally that we understand that there's this adversarial nature of polarity and I'm going to stop here because I don't want to give the whole thesis of my book away


AUBREY MARCUS: But just to see the resonance in this film and it's just fucking beautiful to see that we're just picking up these things from the field.

LUBOMIR ARSOV: You just want to piggyback on that briefly. There's so much that I've been seeing in the last five years of just symbols and themes moving through so many people, like things that I'll think about. If I don't express them, they'll come out through someone else. And we know that in the field of arts, like it usually happens when you write a story, you don't release it, someone else makes it. But I'm seeing this in a much more supercharged way right now. Like things are moving through us and we're all expressing them. And I'm seeing a lot of similarities. That means we're tapping into something, something real. 


LUBOMIR ARSOV: And with Kingdom, one of the reasons I made it also is I wanted to map out a very simple, very direct, very pop culture like, it's addressed in the pop cultural language, visual language, just some of the major steps that a population that may not be so well versed in the inner work can take. And that can be imprinted. And be set up as a template for them to then follow so that you and I have come across this doppelganger, this other parasitic entity, some other people may not have, or they may not have recognized it as such. So if we can put more cultural

AUBREY MARCUS: Oh I guarantee they have, they just may not be conscious of it.


AUBREY MARCUS: But then when you start to explain it, people are like, oh yeah. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah, once we elucidate it in some sort of symbol within a story, then it's like, oh, it's a thing. And now I have some sort of organization of the anchors of this map here. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, absolutely. And just going to speak what you're saying. There is this beautiful understanding that everyone in the story is redeemable. Everyone is redeemable. No matter who they are, no matter how much darkness has been there and through this like group community healing of people healing each other's, the healed healing others. And really not even healing others, but like allowing the healing to move through others by the presence of their being, their healed being, then allowing the healed being to emerge in other people.


AUBREY MARCUS: Just like sickness and this parasite can be transmitted from one person to another, the intergenerational repetition, compulsion of trauma and abuse, right? Like father abuses son, son abuses son. It goes on down the line. We understand how trauma and this poison, this parasite can be transmitted. So too, does light, is light as contagious as darkness? 


AUBREY MARCUS: As healing is as contagious, and oftentimes it doesn't require more than just that presence as that powerful healing force. And I think, film does an amazing job showing that and also giving the meta point of, he doesn't take his sword and start stabbing all of the people who were once shaming him and cajoling him and degrading him. And he allows the light to strip them of their weaponry and armor and they stand naked before the light. 


AUBREY MARCUS: So that's probably the most aggressive scene is just the light stripping the warriors that are the soldiers that are coming to attack them, stripping them of all their weaponry and they become naked and human again. So redemption for the soldiers. Not that you didn't go kill them. 


AUBREY MARCUS: Same with anybody who is perpetuating these kinds of delusions and manipulations, they were all ultimately redeemable. And you saw just the tears pouring down their face as they recognized the truth of who they actually are. When they were expressing themselves, the true self, or the higher self, the unique self, rather than the false self of the anti you, which was hijacking the organism. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah. And they have the look in their eyes that we'd see after people have a big breathwork session. Right? 


LUBOMIR ARSOV: The shock of tenderness inside and clarity and like, my God, 


LUBOMIR ARSOV: What have I gone through? And what have I consented to in my life and my thoughts? And I had some good cries making that part because it wasn't going to be part of it. And then in a moment of inspiration, something came through me. I started drawing it. And whenever I have, whenever I cry while working. And sometimes I'll let myself go into sobbing. And when it starts moving through, I'm like, okay, it's basically I'm getting, I'm like, okay. Yeah. We're moving in this direction. I'm feeling these people now, I'm feeling this situation. And it's interesting, you said he doesn't use the sword to slay anyone. And because this is a story about the inner game, the inner path, forest King, same thing. There was no stabbing or using the sword in any way. And not that that is not necessary. We're in a physical realm. It's just that. I'd like to say about modern myth making and the way that I see Hollywood epic films being captured in a certain trajectory, simply because we don't, with all due respect to the very skilled filmmakers, we don't have initiated people making stories. Right. So if you're a human being who's just lived in the periphery of like New York or LA and you're just within your in-group and you're not delving deep into self growth and then creating these big myths for big corporations that then inform the culture. You're not going to imbue them with any wisdom. Some wisdom comes through through the writers. Yes, there's some good stuff. But that's why we just see a lot of punishment, punching, explosions, and stabbing again, very valid. And we can make those very sublime if we approach them correctly. But I just want to point out, like, we've got work to do and the myth making department, because the people are desperate for myths, as we've seen with the disappointment coming out of the Star Wars movies, it's like we need myths. So yeah. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, absolutely. And we need myths that point to deeper truths. And I think this does a beautiful job of it. And I think we've been captured by this almost kind of military industrial complex zeitgeist of the way to defeat the enemy is to slay them. And some of these stories are my favorite stories and I enjoy them as well. And if you symbolize them, it makes sense. And sometimes there is a necessity to literalize them. You know, again, as you said, like someone breaks into my home and is looking to rape my wife and kill us both. Like I'm going to take a gun and I'm going to defend myself. Like, I'm not going to hesitate. In that regard, there will be a necessity to sometimes use that as the last resort. But this is not the ultimate solution. You know, it can't be the ultimate solution and this points to a much deeper solution of how you resolve the end game of all of this conflict. It's to actually move into healing. Like the real healing process. And so any type of armed conflict has to be seen as a temporary and last resort, stop gap with the intention fully being the healing that comes on the other side of it. 


AUBREY MARCUS: It's the only way. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah, totally. And I know that we, as storytellers, follow the impulse of facing adversarial aspects and reality. And it's just that right now we're externalizing everything and that's fair. That is also how classical mythology does it. I think it's good to remember that they represent inner forces for first and foremost, that then get externalized when we don't recognize them and have to face them outside. But even in the Marvel movies, we could probably make a case that all those outside adversaries really can be defeated within because that requires a whole bunch of unfolding. But I'll just leave it at that. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, I mean, in that scene where he actually puts the sword into his spine. So actually that sword of discernment, clarity, the light that he wields actually merges with the essence of who he is. It just reminds us that the sword, don't take this literally everybody, this isn't like literally we need to go back to wielding swords. We're not going to a regressive Highlander world where there can be only one and we're chopping off each other's heads with a fucking literal blade. This is a symbol and this symbol is important about discernment direction, the full potential of who we are as line consciousness that thing that's driving forward. But it's merged ultimately with our spine. 


AUBREY MARCUS: And you know, yes, there are times where you'll need to wield an actual sword, but mostly this is a symbol for our power, our clarity, and in that discernment.

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Big time, yeah. And now it's integrated. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Now it's integrated. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: And now it serves as how it used to be an antenna to anchor in. The divine energies and to be this intermediary vessel. Now the spine is that thing, which it's what the spine is anyway, right? Like that being having the privilege and the honor to be incarnated as a human who stands upright, right? Differentiated from all the other beautiful mammals to be a conduit to stand up straight. Like, I don't know if you noticed this, actually in the forest King, everyone, but the father is curled up, it's only the father who has his integrity that is straight as a pillar because he channels that. And it's like not shrinking away from the light, from the eye, the all seeing eye in a positive way. 


LUBOMIR ARSOV: The responsibility.

AUBREY MARCUS: My friend Matias was talking about the sword upright as an antenna. He was, it's a long story, and I don't understand it entirely, but it was provocative to think of it as a symbol because he was saying that the Christian cross is actually like a sword, but it's pointed down, and it represents the suffering and the crucifixion. Now, there's lots of meaning in the suffering and the crucifixion, not going into that, but actually, the right orientation for the sword is up. As a channel to get that not down, that's the upside down world. And of course, if you look at the unfortunate history of the exteriors of Christianity, it's caused war, suffering, torture, the burning of witches, the sadistic torture of heretics, the crusades that were wildly unnecessary. So much is gone from the upside down symbol of this cross. And it's not to deny the incredible mystic beauty of the teachings of Yeshua, which I've come to continually appreciate more and more as I understand everything through the lens of symbol rather than the exteriors of what has been hijacked in that tradition. But really that point of actually knowing we need to turn it the other way around. And actually have this sword as an antenna pointing upward the cross pointing upward to source. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah, there's something there as you were saying that I recalled, I don't know if I had this inside or I read it somewhere. It doesn't really matter but Just the esoteric aspect of the cross, one of the many is the horizontal and the vertical, right? The vertical aspect being a temporal coming in the divine, right? It's always an equilibrium. It's the center of existence. And then we have the horizontal aspect, which is time, space and matter. And where those intersect are the center, which just so happens to be the heart of Christ and the cross. And so there is something, you know, when he puts it maybe, I'm kind of going over my own word here, but I will say like when he puts in kingdom, he puts the sword on his back. That intersection is right at the back of his heart. And interestingly, I've discovered with myself, the back of my heart is a part which I found with people carries tension because it's almost like it's the heart, there's something there. It's almost, I don't know if it's the shadow aspect of the heart, but regardless, that's still a mystery that I need to resolve. But yeah, there was that aspect that I wanted to add. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. I mean, in the shamanic work. Putting your loving intention and presence into that place in the back of the heart is a very powerful practice. Now there's work that you can do in the front of the heart as well, and it's different, but there's something about, Like healing, like some trauma that's stored in the back of the heart. So like even the process of breathing. So if you imagine breathing and expanding your breath through the back of your heart, that's a great practice to get people to open up that channel, that column, that kind of moves through the whole chest. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Excellent. Thank you for that. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. Because a lot of times people think about breathing through the heart and then it goes maybe up the spine and forward, but you really want it to go forward and backward. So it clears the whole channel of that chakra. And I think that's a lot of work to do.

LUBOMIR ARSOV: I like that, kind of embodying that now. It feels good. Nice. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, for sure. Well, man, I'm so excited to see this film release and ripple out into the world. And let's just get speculative here and obviously your art will continue to come through and speak to the times, but is there anything else that is either a message of caution or inspiration as you look out into these next days that we have coming ahead of us? And you're kind of anything you're feeling or anything you're, any words you want to leave people with?

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah, I would, thanks for that invitation. I would just remind maybe a lot of your viewers and listeners know this already. So maybe it's a reminder and for others, it's an invitation that really claims ownership of your body and its full somatic wealth of information and felt sense like we are here now and these with this biofeedback instrument and also gift that we have and within it is so much mystery and it's also the the portal through which we can move into greater expansion. If we avoid our body. It's more likely that we will be captured by this digital surveillance state system that's trying to birth itself globally. The more that will be disembodied and brought into conceptual realms, the less we'll be able to contend with our fear and all other lower emotions that are very valid. It's just that when we are grounded within the instrument of our body, we can weather any storm, any vibrational frequency storm in the form of emotions. So that is always just grounded here now in the body. It's one thing that I'd love to, as urgently as possible, to invite people to do a move, dance, breathe into it and stand with pride in the beauty of your body truly. 


LUBOMIR ARSOV: And as a follow up to that, the next thing from that point of this present now and this body claiming matter right with our consciousness vision. We are in a dire need of vision. And the new story I think, I mean, that's what, Mark Gaffney, I'd listened to some of his stuff and that's essentially, the message now is like the new story, but the vision, it's also a personal vision, a familial vision, tribal vision, and a world vision for those of us that have the clarity of mind to go through the fog of novelty, because right now we're functioning either on the mainstream narrative or the alternative narrative. Both are quite disempowering, both are doomy and dark and they don't give much agency to our creativity, and our creativity means we need to peer into the darkness of that which is unformed and it's not part of the menu that we've been introduced to. We peer into it. And we clarify it more and more. And then we act, think, and emote from that place. And the more and more we hold that and anchor it, the more that will get entrained and all around us. And the more we'll bring it into this earth. But right now there's a lot of courage in having a vision, being open to refine it from intuition, openness, being informed by God, inspiration. But constantly holding it, being embodied and walking it because otherwise we keep getting entrained into aberrant visions of others and especially the visions of this bigger construct. So body here now, courage, love, vision, 

AUBREY MARCUS: And holding that vision of the future. And holding that steadfast. And it doesn't mean that you don't prepare and have some things ready in case that vision doesn't hold. But we got to believe like we got to believe that it's possible.


AUBREY MARCUS: And this is such an important act. And it's an act that requires courage. You know, I think Ellen horn was the guest that I had who talked about fear of hope and hope is a vision of a future. But we become afraid of hope and a vision of the future because we're afraid of being disappointed. We’re afraid of it not coming true, but having that hope and that belief and that faith is so wildly important, like for me, holding that vision steady of an outcome and reality that I think is really important to this world, which is Robert F. Kennedy becoming president is like just holding that vision and holding it steady and seeing when other visions try to come in and say, like, God damn, Trump's getting a lot of support here. And that he's going to be a fierce competitor. And who knows how this deep state is working through you. Biden and the other side and whatever that construct seems to be there. And I could easily go, Oh, I don't see him as president anymore, but no, I'm not like, I'm holding that vision to the very fucking end and believing it and infusing it with all of it. And I think we have to hold that vision with great courage. And it doesn't mean that I don't have a farm that I'll go to if shit gets really squirrely and I have to temporarily affect a strategic retreat, but there's also a part of me that's also ready at any point to just stand in the fray and that's the hero as well. So it's multifaceted, but I really like what you said about holding that vision of the future and it's a vision for yourself. It's a vision for the collective and just holding that vision. And that's what draws that vision towards you.

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Yeah. 100%. 

AUBREY MARCUS: My brother, thank you for everything you do. Thank you for the being that you are. Thank you for the work that you produce. And it's an honor to call you an ally and a brother and I'm here. 

LUBOMIR ARSOV: Oh, very much so. Likewise, brother. Thank you so much. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Absolutely. Thanks everybody for tuning in. We love you guys. See you next week.