The Myth Of Death with Paul Chek | AMP #281

By Aubrey Marcus November 04, 2020

The Myth Of Death with Paul Chek | AMP #281

A podcast with Paul Chek goes so deep, spiritual scuba gear is recommended. We talk about mythology of death, the existence of the soul, the nature of God, and how to think sovereignly in a time of manipulation. 

AUBREY: Paul Chek!

PAUL: Yeah, baby.

AUBREY: My man.

PAUL: Welcome to life with you. It's beautiful.

AUBREY: It is beautiful. I feel really good right now.

PAUL: I'm glad you do. You deserve to.

AUBREY: Thanks, man. Everybody deserves to.

PAUL: They do.

AUBREY: That's a thing. We have these stories in our head that tell us we don't deserve to be happy. Or maybe we're scared to be happy. Because if we're really happy, then we might die.

PAUL: Or you might you might be really healthy and have no friends.

AUBREY: That's I think one of the big fears is, we're afraid to enjoy life so much because we're afraid of the contrast of having to let it go. So, if we just keep ourselves at a low level of suffering, or maybe sometimes extreme suffering, then if something bad happens, no big deal. I'm already in the shithouse anyways, so nothing to fear.

PAUL: That's possible. I mean, that sort of way of thinking is so far out of my wheelhouse that I have to use my imagination to wonder what it's like to live that way. If you can imagine it, it's probably happening. So I wouldn't doubt it.

AUBREY: I've seen it in myself, this little voice when I start to get really happy. It says, don't do it. Just don't fucking do it. Don't get too happy. And I have to be like, "Hello, voice. Hello, voice trying to keep me safe, I understand what you're doing. You're trying to prevent me from having the disappointment in case this temporal happiness ends." But that's absolutely the antithesis of the way to live. Because it's denying you the thing that you're trying to protect.

PAUL: Makes a great catalyst for growth though, doesn't it?

AUBREY: It does.

PAUL: So I mean, all that, that and any other such negative thing is really just a great opportunity to say, oh, thank you, dear pain teacher for showing me where I have a mind virus. And then just ask yourself, what is my dream in regard to this? Well, my dream is to have happiness all the time. That's the more positive choice. Let's energize that and create a neural network to support it. And within enough time, you disempower the old network, and you create a new one. And all of a sudden, you don't have those thoughts anymore.

AUBREY: That's right.

PAUL: But it takes the discipline and the awareness to not wait till you're in a funk. But to catch it as it starts talking to you. And that's where I really teach the name-it blame-it tame-it approach. You say, okay, there's my... I don't want to be too happy because it might come to an end voice. So we'll call it the Grinch that steals happiness. So, whenever the Grinch that steals happiness shows up, you say, "Hello, the Grinch that steals happiness. Thank you for reminding me that I am choosing to live with happiness and joy and trust in the universe." And then you blame it. Whenever the Grinch that steals happiness shows up, I get afraid to be happy, and I actually don't enjoy myself near as much. Now you're cognitively aware of what was unconscious. So, now it becomes an object instead of a subject. And you can't work with it as a subject because there's no way to define it. And then tame it. Every time it comes up, you just tame it and say thanks, you're welcome to hang out with us and party or enjoy the sun, and beautiful beach or whatever. Feel free to visit but don't pester me anymore. I'm going to have to remove you from my mindscape.

AUBREY: That's the three-step strategy. That makes a fucking lot of sense. And interestingly, I can apply this to... I recently spent time with a friend, and he has a really bad case of tinnitus. And so, he's in this constant state where it's very challenging. I've never experienced it so I can only imagine how challenging it is. And there's certain things that he could attempt, but when I was really getting down to it, he's a little bit afraid to try the last of the events because--

PAUL: Which is what, having his head cut off?

AUBREY: Right? I don't know, but there's some procedures and there's some metaphysical things he could try. There's ayahuasca--

PAUL: Actually, I've treated many cases of it, and most of it is not accurately diagnosed. One of the key things of tinnitus is nothing changes it. Not in volume, not in intensity. So, for example, there's many things as a therapist that I know that trigger that. By the way, one of them is dehydration, that's the most common. If you get dehydrated enough, your inner ear fluids get so thick that they won't move properly. And a side effect of that is tinnitus. So, whenever I meet someone with tinnitus, I just ask how much water you drink. And so far, I've never met anyone that even drinking close to enough water.

AUBREY: And the right type of water.

PAUL: Right, and it can come from, very commonly come from upper cervical subluxation, which is the most common subluxation in the human spinal column. Due to the fact that the atlas has far greater range of motion, and far less ligamentous stability than any other vertebra because it has to, so you can rotate your head. And there's a technique chiropractors often use where they have a pad on the wall, like a wrestling mat. And they will just gently bounce you off the wall, and that can shock your inner ear enough to get the fluids moving again. I've seen that work for a few people. There's one called the endonasal technique, where they do something, I've had it done to me a few times. It's painful as hell. They take like a condom and they stuff it up your nose, both sides. And they use a blood pressure cuff. They inflate it and it actually opens up your--

AUBREY: Yeah, they do that with broken noses for fighters and things.

PAUL: Yes, but it'll actually put so much pressure through your eardrums, it feels like your eardrum is going to pop, but it can have a resetting effect. And sometimes due to the misalignment of the facial bones and the cranial bones, that endonasal technique, the few times I had it done, it sounded like someone cracking an egg inside of my head because it was adjusting the bone so thoroughly. And so, there's a number of cases of tinnitus completely clearing up with that. But actual tinnitus is more of a like a disease of the eighth cranial nerve or a degenerative situation. And the hallmark of real tinnitus is that nothing can change it. Not chiropractic, not cranial sacral, not anything. So, the second question I ask after how much you're drinking is, is there any time at all, exercising, sleeping, making love, anything, where the intensity of it changes, oscillates up and down, seems like it's less? And if the answer is no, that's usually a real case of tinnitus.

AUBREY: And then you have to go to probably some more metaphysical type of techniques, either like the Dispenza type of technique where you live in the reality in which you have no tinnitus, and allow the great mystery to find a solution to the unsolvable problem, and manifest it in your physical form by the signals that you're sending, with perhaps the help of plant medicine or something else. That becomes the next avenue, right?

PAUL: Well, yeah, there's other things that you can do, because a lot of the problems that happen to people with these chronic neurodegenerative type changes have to do with their diet, and toxicity. And so, anything that disturbs the myelin sheath on the nerve can lead to all sorts of these unusual problems like tinnitus. So, the first thing I do is run an environmental panel on them for environmental toxicity, and look for things like heavy metals, chemicals, from buildings, chemicals from plastics, xenoestrogens, chemicals from cans and can liners. And one of the most common things I find in women is they're poisoned by their commercial makeup. There's many chemicals--

AUBREY: Or their tampons, I mean, there's a fucking enormous amount of toxins in tampons that don't even have to be listed.

PAUL: And then there's also a lot of food additives that attack the nervous system, unfortunately. I've got a whole book on them. And so, really, what I do is I clean people out, get their gut healthy, and get them eating high quality fats. And, if I find reason to give them key supplementation to support that process, so things that support neurogenesis, like Lion's Mane mushrooms and things like that. But almost always it has to do with some kind of disruption, either of the fat metabolism and/or because the body shuttles toxins into fat to protect the organs, glands and brain and nervous system. So, the more toxic you are, the more toxic fat you have, and therefore you got all these chemicals in the fat. And if a person gets toxic enough and they go into the fat, the myelin on the nervous system, and it just starts to eat it alive and degenerate it. So, in a lot of cases, there's a lot that can be done. But that approach is usually about a one-year commitment because nerve regeneration is extremely slow. So, having dealt with lots of nerve injuries, you have to be patient. But most people take a year to clean out and learn the new habits they've got to learn, and get them to where they're doing it consistently enough that you have enough time for the cells of the body to replace themselves with clean, good food, which for a whole body, current science says is a year to turn all your cells over. It used to be seven years, but newer science says actually, we're turning over every cell in our body every year. So, I found with a lot of these types of cases, if you're not in for a year's worth of consistent participation in the therapist program, then you might as well go see what they can cut out or destroy for you.

AUBREY: Well, I'm glad that you went down that rabbit hole, because I'm sure there's people listening specifically who can get help from that. And also, understanding the conceptual framework about how toxicity can create just a general degradation of the system. But where I was going originally was this idea about, the psychology behind it, because there's some aspect where he wanted to preserve this kernel of hope, in that I haven't tried everything. So there's a chance. However, he didn't want to hope so much and actually go for it, and try it because of the fear of having that hope dashed. And then him having to accept the reality that this is permanent. PAUL: That's quite common with people with chronic conditions. You get what's called illness behavior, where you actually get so far down the line that you at a subconscious or conscious level, don't know who you'll be without the problem. And also people get doctor fatigue, and therapist fatigue, because they've seen so many doctors, spent so much money, so much time, and they're not getting any tangible results. So, they just basically reached the point where why frigging bother, it's just going to be another round of the same crap. I've tried it 28 times. So, I can feel empathy for that, because most of my clients are people that come with two medical files about two inches thick, and it takes me about $10,000 worth of my time just to look through and see how badly tortured they've been. And, I could go off in a long segue on that. But the reality of it too is that you can do the metaphysical type approaches, and of course, me, I'm all about that. But you can pray till the sun turns into the moon. If you're still eating crap and poisoning your body and all you're doing is fucking with God saying, fix this, well, I poisoned myself, kind of like, thinking because you did ayahuasca that you're going to be Jesus tomorrow.

AUBREY: Wait, you're not?

PAUL: Well, you're always Jesus. It's just, how many layers between what's on the surface and Jesus hiding inside there is.

AUBREY: Reminds me, also that that hope is scary. It's a scary thing, because it's setting you up for the contrast of that disappointment, potentially. And there's a Nietzschean interpretation of Pandora's Box, the myth of that, which is really Pandora's [inaudible 00:13:21] because they didn't have boxes back then. But ultimately, in the myth, hope was left in the jar. And there's a lot of interpretations why hope was left in the jar. But Nietzsche's interpretation is, that was an act of mercy from the gods, because hope was the most challenging of all the pestilences that could be on man. Because everything else, you can accept it and all suffering. If there's no hope you just accept your fate. But the moment you have hope, you have the torture of that tension, of like, "Oh, man, I hope that this can be different." And so you're in resistance. And resistance is the actual definition of suffering. Otherwise, it's just pain. And we're very good at adapting to pain.

PAUL: I know there's people that have these sort of dispositions. Because as you know, I'm a therapist and work with all kinds of complicated people. But personally, I've never had anything but a great relationship with... I think the difference between hope and faith is very minimal. If you have hope, then you have to have faith or why hope? Right?

AUBREY: Yeah, it's like the active and passive version. I think faith is just like, it's a stronger. Hope is like, I hope, it's putting the power out externally. Faith is like driving that power. Like, I believe, like I'm actively believing this, but it is a subtle difference.

PAUL: Well, if I got an airplane coming in late, and I got a flight to get on and what happens, like you're hoping you can make your flight. I say, "Well, I hope I make my flight." But I also say, "Thank you, great spirit. I have faith that I'll make my flight." And I just use the power of my mind to cause someone to spill something on the other airplane before they can leave the gate. Sorry. Excuse me. I'm mostly kidding. But for me, I think because I've been through so much pain in my life, and had so many broken bones, and internal injuries and bad concussions, and just lots of fucking pain that nobody could do anything with it. So I had to take it into my own hands, which now I realized God was saying, oh, by the way, you're going to be a therapist one day, and you're going to have to learn to figure shit out for yourself, because nobody in the medical system is going to give you much help. So, I really grew into a relationship where whatever has me, I have found through... I'm 59 now, so I've had time to experiment a lot. I've found that every single thing that really fucking put me down and made me hope, I would be able to return to normal, walk, run, jump, play, whatever, turned out to be an amazing journey, that not only helped me learn and heal, but gave me all sorts of skills and levels of awareness that ended up being a great gift to countless thousands of people, helped me develop courses and say, look, this is where you can trust the medical evaluation, this is where you shouldn't trust it. And things like that. So I think, a lot of this boils down to people having not enough depth of spiritual awareness and connection, that they don't have a sense of trust in the grand plan of the universe, or the world, or they don't have enough understanding of the true nature of God, to feel supported in whatever's happening, right? You had that terrible car accident, right? And I'm sure that was like, oh, my God, I mean, I remember seeing videos of you, you were pretty fucking up against the wall for a bit there. But if you didn't have hope and faith, and use your support system, and keep your eyes on the target instead of in the pain, you could have turned out to be addicted to pain medications. I mean, that whole situation could have gone many different ways, none of which would have put you right in the seat with me smiling right now, right? And I think that's part of the reason why people like me and you do what we do, and Joe Dispenza, and many, many others, Eckhart Tolle, Deepak Chopra, Ram Dass, the list is long. In some way, we've all had painful lives, and we've all found ways to learn and grow from the pain and actually use it as a catalyst. So eventually, you realize you've got a toolkit. And when the darkness shows up, or the demons show up, then you say, this isn't fun, but I know what to do, I know who to call, I know what books to look into. I know I can use the internet effectively.

AUBREY: And even if I don't know what to do, the learning, I think this is the key thing you said there. The learning that goes with the trying, and then the ability to share everything that you learned, makes it all productive. Even if it's an absolute fucking dead end, you try something and it just like, nope, that's not it. Well, you can share that and then continue that infinite game for everybody else. Like, this is how I was playing today, this is what I tried. It didn't work or it did work. And then you share that thing. It's just part of that integral consciousness, part of believing yourself as part of the whole rather than it's just me. Because everything you do, if it's part of the whole, then it makes sense. It's productive. It's helpful.

PAUL: Personally, I have such a love of freedom, physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually, that if any kind of anything, physical, emotional, mental, spiritual, would be a kind of a different context. But if anything starts choking out my freedom, then I'm highly inspired to get rid of the cage. Like if I have pain, or going through, like I've been through a divorce. I'm like, okay, right now I'm falling into a situation either by got injured or by my own mind, that I'm losing my own freedom. And I don't want to lose my freedom. So, I find whenever anything encroaches on my freedom to authentically express myself as a human being and in the world, that's the first priority for me to address. So what I'm saying so it's clear, is that if we really value freedom than we know that when the pain teacher comes, we need to be a very good student. And that usually means dropping a lot of the things you've been doing, like staring at televisions and phones and video games and distractions, which is the opposite. Most people drug up and fall deeper into that trap. But to me, it's like, okay, great spirit, is having fun wrestling with me right now, I'm in a chokehold. And I'm going to get out of it, whatever it takes. But that adventure has taught me a frigging lot. And it's led me to, oftentimes, for example, you find traditional medical approaches don't work, this doesn't work, that doesn't work. And the next thing, someone says, "Have you ever tried an Alexander practitioner?" And you don't know what that is. You study FM Alexander, and you realize he was an orator and dot dot dot. So you say, "Well, let me go give it a try." And then the simplest thing, like little movements and changing your breathing and adjusting your posture, and all of a sudden, your tinnitus is gone, or your neck pain is gone. And you're like, oh, my God, how come nobody knows about Alexander work? And then I say, okay, now that I know, I'm going to put it into the Chek curriculum, and I'm going to make sure that I know... And so what I did, for example, I went and got a lot of Alexander, enough to really understand the technique. So I knew intimately from my own experience when do I refer someone to an Alexander practitioner, versus a Feldenkrais practitioner, versus a yoga teacher dot dot dot. So, I teach Chek professionals on their level four tests, they have to identify exactly when you refer to 19 different medical and allied health care professionals. Because if you don't know that, then someone can get caught in a rabbit hole, and then come to the end of the cul de sac and believe that's the end of it. When really, until you've actually had enough pain to have to explore a lot of opportunities, you don't realize how big the toolkit is out there.

AUBREY: Yeah. The pain is definitely something that can restrict your freedom. All too often, though, it's the fear. It's the fear of suffering, that is actually the most limiting thing. It's constantly constricting us. It's like a jacket with a cinch, that's just getting tighter and tighter, like a corset. And the more we're afraid of suffering, in some form or another, the more restricted we are. Or afraid of death. We look out in the world, we've both been on airplanes recently, and we're cruising around and watching people react. Some people are real relaxed, and some people are just so bound by their fear of everything that's going on in this COVID world right now, that it's really interesting to see the dichotomy which is actually physically displayed. Not only in their energetic presence, but also in their armaments.

PAUL: Yeah, yeah. But fear is a necessary complimentary opposite to freedom. So, because mind operates on the principle of duality, you can't have mind without a duality. And because the nervous system's oriented towards threat for our own survival, our biological systems know what a snake looks like, and see it before our conscious mind does, because they know that's a potential threat. But sometimes we think the rope is the snake as you know. But the point I'm making is you can't have freedom as a concept without the opposite, limited freedom. And fear really boils down to anything that stops me from doing the routine that I've convinced myself is what is the way I want to be. A lot of people won't race a motorcycle, because they're less oriented toward the freedom and the fun of going really fast, and more oriented to the fear of a broken leg or a broken neck. Some people won't do anything for that. Remember, Michael Jackson was a germaphobe. People were cleaning his limousine constantly and all that stuff. So here's a guy with tremendous freedom on stage, but as soon as he's not in his meditation, all of a sudden, the other side of his mind takes over. And there's millions of people. So all I'm saying is, whenever we have a negative polarity like that, that's our invitation to remember that one of the definitions of a spiritual master is someone who can turn a negative into a positive. And we're all ceded with those potentials. Just because spiritual masters do it, doesn't mean we can't do it. Jesus said, anything I can do, you can do better. And so, what I'm saying is, is the fear, the pain, the upset, the sadness, the heartbreak. There are things that we need to experience because it makes the spectrum of human existence real, and diverse, and exciting. I hate saying it, but pain and all that, without it, then the other things have no value, right?

AUBREY: We know through contrast.

PAUL: Right. So, I think it takes a certain level of maturation and awareness of how a mind works to get to the point where you actually aren't the victim of the circumstance, but you realize that you now have tools, and that it's a catalyst, and that it's giving you an opportunity to exercise the capacity of your own mind, and to see other viewpoints that normally you wouldn't if you just stopped right there. So, because it's biologically driven into us, by nature it takes quite a while for people to get enough psychological maturity to discern a real threat from a perceived threat. A lot of doctors will tell you that you've got such and such a disease, you're going to die. But until you've weighed out your options, that's only a perceived threat, right? And a lot of people weigh out their options and change their diet, or heal their relationships and their tumors disappear. Or they go to holistic health people that give them the right diet and various approaches that almost anybody can do. And the next thing they know, they go back to the doctor two months later, and they don't have a problem anymore. But the doctor was ready to cut their body open and pull out tumors and give them chemo or whatever. So, I think part of it is we have to mature into asking deeply, what are my options? And who else has gone through this and recovered from it? And how did they go about doing it? And I tell you, if you actually start looking for who's had tinnitus, or who's had fibromyalgia, or who's had intractable back pain, or any such thing and actually recovered from it, it's not hard to find people because usually they go shout off the fucking rooftops. "Oh, by the way, you don't have to live this way. Here's how you can do it." I mean, I must have 50 books on cancer written by exactly those kinds of people that just couldn't resist telling everybody. "Oh, by the way, if you get cancer, here's 58 things that you can do that probably will address the issue, and you don't need to think it's the end."

AUBREY: Yeah, that's one of the challenges though, because fear, it limits our ability to think freely and to think rationally and explore options. It constricts our freedom to such an extent that we want to place our faith in what we feel is the best option, and then close our eyes and ears to any other possibilities. And I think, one of the things, one of the reasons why that fear is so constrictive is, we have this massive fear of death, which comes from a deep misunderstanding of what death really is. And I think if we're going to start going down and talk about all the ways that we start to unfetter ourselves from the chains that are binding us, you really kind of got to start with death. And you got to understand like, alright, what is this thing? What is this ceremony called death, as Ram Dass calls it, a ceremony. When you think about death, because you've certainly explored the realms beyond the physical body as much as anybody I know. When you think about death, what do you think about death? what is your feeling about it?

PAUL: Well, I've spent a lot of time investigating death, and I've been through some profound death experiences, including running into a pile of logs going about 70 miles an hour on a motocross bike, that was laying on the side of a logging road that was our race track. The guy ahead of me was kicking up so much dust in the summer that I couldn't see what was in front of me, and he swerved around the logs, and I didn't know they were there. And they were like halfway into the road, and I hit them full on flat out, as fast as my motorcycle would go. Totaled my motorcycle, flew about 50 feet through the air and landed in these logs. Had a branch go right through my abdominal wall. He didn't know what to do. I was maybe 16, he was 18. So, he draped me over his CR125 dirt bike, and trundled me home about two and a half miles down the road. And they had a doctor come in in emergency to look at me and said, "Don't move him, he's in a very deep coma." And so, I was completely and utterly gone for two, probably two and a half days before had any signs of conscious life in me. Many times, so deep in ceremonies, particularly DMT that man, I was like, I didn't even know how I was going to get home. I was like, in other dimensions completely and scared to death. I mean, I have actually been so deep, I have found myself laying in my yard crying for my mother, screaming, "Mom! Mom! Help, help!" Because I had entered the abyss. And I was in just this vast, vast emptiness and felt like it was moving at the speed of light. And there was just no top, and no bottom, and no sides. And I thought, "Fuck, I've just died. And I don't know what to do."

AUBREY: Well, probably actually it's much scarier than died. Because I don't think, that's not where we all go in my exploration of it, but it is one of the locus, one of the planes of existence.

PAUL: That's only one experience. There's about a hundred more. But I've actually investigated, not only in my own life, but I've studied it quite extensively. And I put a model together that I teach my HLC3 students, which is the advance holistic lifestyle coaching, based on that. But I mean, before I start rattling away, is there something specific you're wanting me to share?

AUBREY: I think death is a multifaceted topic of exploration. Right now, I think a lot of people just think of it as the end. And then some people think of it, oh, well, there's some kind of afterlife of my soul. But I think it's very, like very loosely understood, and then people just throw their hands up. There's all kinds of different, facile, kind of aphorisms, like, well, you don't know until you do it. And there's like, there's a lot of reasons why people don't actually explore it, and just kind of throw their hands up. But meanwhile, the fear is just breathing down their neck, like a wolf that's constantly sniffing their artery of life. But, there's just in my own exploration, in my own surrender to death, which the ceremonies have forced me to do, and also the car accidents and different brushes that I've had with death, it's not what people think in the slightest. And when you really start to understand that death isn't something that is quite so scary. So yeah, I mean, if you want to just go into your understanding with the best of your capability of what happens when we die.

PAUL: Yeah, I mean, I can share what I've learned, and I have put potentially thousands of hours of study with many mystics, and people like Steiner, a lot, because it's been an interest of mine for a long time. Well, because I want to know what God is. And if you really want to know what God is, until you really get clear on what that is, you can never understand death or life. Because it's the first principle from which our sense of self, soul, you can't have a soul if God doesn't have consciousness. If God's not conscious, then how could you be conscious? If God is prime source, then there's no quality that can exist anywhere in the universe that doesn't already exist in God. Because it's just impossible, right? So, for my understanding of all this stuff, and having dialogued and debated and talked about this with people all over the world, I find that people's views of death are almost always a perfect reflection of their beliefs about God. And according to most people's belief, God loves you, but he'll burn you in hell for touching your genitals, and you'll be in there for a long time, and you'll be getting hit with pitchforks and all this other shit, and that's going to be worse than death. And it's purgatory in the Catholic sense. So you see, well, fuck, no wonder people are scared as fucking hell of death. Most people's conception of what happens when you die. And how many people can say I haven't sinned and look themselves in the mirror and say that, and whatever else. It's just, there's too much baggage around death and it's been so even to this fucking day, with COVID death is the ultimate leverage to get people to be afraid enough to do what you want them to do. So, death is like the ultimate rule for leveraging people, until you get somebody like a Zen Buddhist monk who can shut his own heart off at will, and Yogananda who could shut his own heart off at will and die at will. Yogananda said, death is like having a thousand orgasms at once. And I would agree.

AUBREY: Sounds like 5-MEo.

PAUL: It does. Because the death experiences that I've had, aside from a couple of them where I would just so... What was the scary part was that I felt an obligation to my family, right? And I didn't want to leave them with a lot of load that really is my obligation to handle.

AUBREY: And this feeling of having a purpose and knowing that there's work yet undone.

PAUL: Yes.

AUBREY: That's when I look at when I look at death, because I don't have children, anything. I look and I'd be like, that'd be a damn shame, because I'm just fucking getting started. I'm not done, dammit. I've been learning my whole life, and I got shit to do.

PAUL: Yes, I've always had a sense of missions. And so I was 21, things, just the stars lined up, and I knew why I was here. And then through things like past life regressions with regression therapists, and doing my own inner work and talking to my soul about these things, I'm very, very clear why I'm here. And I know exactly what I'm here to do. So when I get into a situation, be it through plant medicines or any other experience, I'm not ready to go yet. So, a lot of the challenge that I have when I get into these situations isn't because I'm afraid to die. It's because I'm afraid to die at that moment. But one of the biggest things, I think, leaves people in so much fear of death is that they have not lived yet. I've lived. I've written, sexed, drugged, climbed, crawled, soldiered, daddied. I mean, in 59 years of life, man, I have studied hard, worked hard, played hard. I have not been afraid to explore my sexuality. I have not left many stones unturned. So, if it wasn't for my kids, I'd say, fuck, get me Zeus anytime, here I am, hit me with a million volts and take me home, baby. But because I need out of compassion for the people in the world that don't understand the kinds of simple things we're talking about, before you go get a bunch of shit stuffed in your head because you got tinnitus, try drinking some quality water for about three days. Like the world is so railroad with all this medical fear, right? And leveraging people and false marketing and manipulation, that I feel a deep commitment to the rest of myself, the rest of the people in the world that aren't fortunate enough to have the life path and the experience and the knowledge and the discipline to study that I do. So, Steiner says, when you die, the first thing that happens is you find yourself bouncing around the universe at the speed of thought, until you realize it's you doing the thinking. So, what he's saying is, when your body's gone, there's nothing to anchor your mind. So, until you learn to control your mind, death is a real ballbuster, because it takes a while for that energy to fuse. Now, then there's a whole bunch of stuff he teaches with planets and cycles and where you go at different stages. And he attributes different types of what they would attribute to the Bardo, and the different stages we go through. He talks about in relationship, more of an alchemical approach to you will go here first, the moon. Then you'll go here, then you'll go here. And in each stage, you go through a different experience, a different level of awakening, processing and realization. And then, if I remember right, in Steiner's model, once you are to the point where you don't need to live anymore, or you've reached a level of spiritual development where your soul is quite pure, then you end up on the sun. And then if you want to reincarnate from there, you come back into the earth plane. Now it's been years, there's a great book called "At Home In The Universe" by Rudolf Steiner, which goes through his whole model of what happens when you die. And there's another great book that I give to people all the time. I think it's called "A Guide For The Recently Deceased" by, I believe it's David Tob, I haven't read it for many years, but it's such a great book. I'd give it to anybody who's got a death approaching in the family. But so, Steiner has a model that's based on the Rosicrucian model, which is an elite group of Christians, Mystic Christians. And then you've got "The Tibetan Book of the Dead" and you got the Egyptian books. And there's all sorts of models, and there's some parallels, and there's some not. What I did, which there's many other things I could say, but just to kind of keep it from wandering everywhere, what I did is I asked fundamental questions like, what are we? Well, it turns out everything in the universe is made of two things, energy and information. And I never forget the day that I heard Stephen Hawking in a lecture say, only two things can escape a black hole, energy and information. And I said, well, about the worst thing you could do to someone would be to throw them into a black hole, based on the old model of a black hole. But really what we are is energy and information. So, even the truth of us can't die in a black hole, which is the biggest death force ever found in the universe. New models are showing slightly different things, but I won't segue us into all that because it'd be a long discussion. Fun one though. There's a great book by the way, if you really want to read about some good black hole shit. It's called "Punk Science: Inside The Mind of God" by Manjir Samanta-Laughton. And it's frigging good.


PAUL: Yeah. So, well, then I say, okay, this body of mine is certainly not all I am, it keeps changing constantly. I mean, every day you look in the mirror, you get the idea that that's Aubrey. But the fact of the matter is, your body's really more like a water fountain. I tell people, if you've gone to a park and seen like a 30-foot water fountain from about 400 meters away, and it looks like a tree of ice, doesn't it? It doesn't even look like it's moving. You just see this white tree standing there. But as you approach all of a sudden, you can see that it's moving. Well, we're moving like a water fountain all the time. We're bringing in new tissue, new cells, fluids, and out with the old, and it's skin sloughing off and bones turning over. You turn over two million red blood cells a second, you turn your bone cells over about every three weeks, you turn your epidermis over every three days. I mean, I've studied this. The body's got a cycle of turning over. So, here's the deeper truth. You're fucking dying all the time.

AUBREY: Yeah, and if this is the truth of who we are, what's true is always true. And it's always changing, so this is a temporal thing.

PAUL: And death feeds life. You can't have life without death. That's why I tell people who are vegetarians, don't be so worried about killing the chicken. What's more important is bringing the chicken into you as a sacrifice, and as a practice of worship, knowing that that chicken is sustaining you. So, what was a chicken 20 minutes ago now is upgraded to the level of human, and to the degree that you invite the consciousness of that chicken into you, it is not dead. And to the degree that you honor and worship that chicken as giving you the ability to make the world a better place for all living beings now and in the future. That chicken has just upgraded its capacity for service, not only for its own species, but all species and for humanity, which are the most destructive of all. So really, that's reincarnation with soul added to it. It's, what are we? If we're a soul, which we are, then when we bring something else into us, we're bringing all of it into us. So, the soul, like why do you think they call alcohol spirits? Because you're drinking the spirit of the fucking planet. You can change the way you see and feel everything. You eat the right cactus, you drink some ayahuasca, it's called vine of the soul, which means vine of death, interestingly. But you're bringing the soul of the plant in you. Now, to be a bit technical, what you're bringing in is the vibration of that organism. And the vibration of the molecules that create the organism and the geometrical structures that they come in. But those are actually antenna systems that are in frequency lock with the soul, which is in a non-local domain, which Rupert Sheldrake would refer to as the morphic field. So, you could say that's really where the essence is stored, but it's non-local, which means it's everywhere and nowhere at the same time. It's not in a place. So what I'm saying is, that as a soul, and we have to be careful about just thinking of soul because soul has no meaning without spirit. So, the way I define what a soul is, for people that use an ancient symbol of the soul, which is a circle with a dot, right smack dab in the middle. This, interestingly is exactly how a black hole functions. It pulls things into it and it pushes them out of a jet in the center. And all the way back in the 70s, Itzhak Bentov who wrote "Stalking The Wild Pendulum: A Brief Tour of Higher Consciousness" and one other book, said all black holes are coupled with white holes. They are a force of death that gives birth to life constantly. And only now are they starting to explore this with black hole science. And Samantha Lawton talks about this very beautifully in her book. So, if you look at that picture, the positive or the dot, which is a point, which by definition, geometrically has no dimension. Like a photon has no mass, that point has no dimension, until you create a plane. Now you've got a dimension. If you create another plane, you got another dimension, right? So, when you have a point in the middle of a sphere, Steiner said a soul exists in anywhere where there's an inside and an outside, including an atom. Anything that has shape or form, has to have a means of regulating itself so it doesn't just dissolve into entropy, right? So the soul is the intelligence that maintains the shape or the form. And if you look at Bentov's writing, he calls the soul of a bottle, a diva, or the soul of the table, a diva. And this is many of the ancient philosophies had this, even aspects of paganism.

AUBREY: Right, real animus philosophy.

PAUL: Yes, it's an animist philosophy. So the point is, you have the point in the middle, which is the emergence of something, right? If you start a drawing, I give you an empty canvas, the instant your brush touches that canvas, you've got a point. And from there, the whole thing begins. So there's the emergence. That's the principle of Yang, or in David Beaumes model, that's the beginning of the explicate. But if you have a circle, with no dot in, it, then everything is in-folded. It's invisible, but it's there. So that's the implicate order.

AUBREY: Yeah, pure potential.

PAUL: So, when you put the dot in the middle to represent the positive, now you have a body. Aubrey, you now have a field. And by definitions in science and physics, a field is a place of action. So, the soul is responsible for the flow of energy and information, and the soul is what's experiencing it all. So, thinking is spirit, and feeling what you're thinking and how you respond to your thoughts as soul. How you feel about your friend's tinnitus, or your mother's cancer, or your divorce, that's the domain of soul. But when you're having feelings, you're also thinking about them. So, spirit and soul are like the heads and the tails of a coin. You take the heads off of a coin, it's got no purchase power. You take tails off a coin, it's got no purchase power. But if you don't have something between heads and tails that's completely neutral, unconditional love or God, then those two collapse into each other, and you've got no purchase power. So, what makes the soul a dynamic principle of life, is the fact that it has the feminine and the masculine. And the circle is a sphere which represents geometrically wholeness, and it is also a symbol for God. And if you say, what is death? Well, look at this. If you have a circle, and I ask you, where does it begin and where does it end? You can't answer that. But if you take the circle, split it in half and draw it as a sine wave, you can call this life, the positive. And this negative, death. And you can worship those as separate. But what you've just done is named two halves of a circle, and created the illusion that the circle is broken.

AUBREY: And truncated in infinite sine wave of life and death and a cycle.

PAUL: And the truth of it is, is because God is wholeness--

AUBREY: It's an infinity symbol.

PAUL: You're only aware of what's happening in life, but you're not aware of all the parts of you dying every second that we talked about. And when you're dead, you're not aware that you're actually just as alive as you ever were, until you awaken to the fact, and that's what spiritual practice is for. Steiner says, very specifically, the function of spiritual practice is to develop the subtle body copies of each of your glands and organs that create consciousness in your physical body, in your light body. So it's only through working to see what seeing, right? Aubrey is looking at me right now, but the question is who's actually seeing what he's seeing? Aubrey is hearing me right now, but who's actually listening to the vibrations inside of his ear? You get the point? You're hearing me, but you can be hearing from a physical level and think I hear Paul. But I say, Aubrey, who's actually listening in there?

AUBREY: Is it the ultimate listener the capital L listener, the capital A awareness--

PAUL: Who's actually feeling. Who's tasting, right? And so, what you see, like I'm clairvoyant. So if I want to, I can go into what's called second sight, or shift my perception and read your energy field. But I don't walk around doing that because I have to look at everybody's dirty laundry and, and then I have to sit there and be amazed with all the things. So, I actually just use that when I'm trying to help somebody or investigate something. But what Steiner was teaching, what many of the mystics teaches, that when you meditate deeply on a topic like death, you might start having images. When we question deeply what's happening when I dream? How is that happening? Most people I know have had dreams that were so real, that when they woke up, it seemed less real than the intensity of the dream they were just having. And some of them were dreaming that they were dying, and they were scared to death, and woke up frigging sweating from head to toe. And others have dreams so real that they orgasm in their dream. Now, if you can orgasm in a dream, if you can keep doing that, it's a lot cheaper than marriage. But the point I'm making is, is the person in the dream alive or dead?

AUBREY: It's kind of in that interstitial place where people don't know. Because people associate the body with life, and the consciousness with byproduct of life, that's somewhere non-local, but some people fix it to the brains, they would say it's life. Some people say no, no, this is part of the consciousness, it's part of the non-local that always exists. But dreams are kind of somewhere in that middle range for most people.

PAUL: Okay, and how many times have you been in a deep medicine ceremony where you're having experiences that are so damn vivid, so intensely real, that when you come out of it, it feels like, this is actually more the sleepy realm.

AUBREY: Oh, many times. And that's where my own understanding of death has come from, comes from the place of truth that the gnosis, the knowing, of having traversed. So my death, I don't know if I ever told you about this, but I had actually a non-plant medicine derived death experience where I was actually lying in between two people actually. Interestingly, one of them is my wife, but we were at Burning Man, and we were just resting. They were on strong psilocybin at the time. I was sober, it was my rest day. And they were journeying deeply, and I was lying between them. And it was like, two poles of a battery and I was in the middle. And I journeyed to a place that I knew was the death realm. And in the death realm, everything was just pure black potentiality. It was in this absolute void, in the darkness. But every thought that I had, would appear to me. There was no traveling, it just instantly manifested. So, if I had a thought, it would instantly manifest. If I wanted to talk to someone's soul, it would instantly manifest. And there we had a vivid discussion.

PAUL: By the way, that's exactly the characteristics of the astral realm. And that's the first place you go when you die.

AUBREY: Right. And so interesting, I was there, and it was a beautiful experience. But I also felt that there was the second death. And I've called it that. And the second death was to dissolve completely. So, the recognition of self, the one who was talking because I still was me, I was still talking to the souls there. I was still choosing with my own will what images I wanted to perceive. If I wanted to see a rainbow over a waterfall, I could see it and it would be beautiful and vivid. I was I had choice, and I had personality, and I had a lot of things. But there was this calling, and I could feel it. And it was like, you could let this all go, and go back to the unicity as the second death. And maybe there's multiple deaths in between those two.

PAUL: I'll get into that when you're ready. But I've been in that very place where God has said to me, I've said, I'm afraid to die right now, I don't want to leave my family, the things I told you about. And the voice that I'll call God that speaks to me from every direction simultaneously, so it's not a human voice. It's beyond... Your mind can't wrap your head around it until you had this experience. But it's as though space itself is speaking. God always has said the same thing, I should be getting used to it by now. If you trust me, you must let go. If you cannot trust me, then I am in service to you. Whatever you would like, is my... I will support you. If you want to live, I will support you. But if you want to die, then you must trust me. And I'm saying like, yes, but will I get back home? And the answer is, you must trust me. Not yes or no. And so, unless, in some experiences where we just loaded the cannon up enough with DMT, for example, that there is no time for that, you get enough DMT, and there's no mental dialogue. It's 1, 2, 3 God, like it or not. And so, that's one of the ways. You've got to have Billy goat balls for that kind of thing--

AUBREY: 1, 2, 3, God like it or not.

PAUL: Yeah, and I've probably done 80 of those in my career. And every one of them, I tell people, because I only do that with people like Kyle or someone who's strong enough to handle that experience. Because I've actually seen people go through a psychotic episode that can last for a year or more. Because the shock of it, and the fear of it is so great. It causes soul loss. And they actually... Now, I don't do that to people, but I've been with shaman that do do that. And they say, well, that's just your karma. And then I've ended up having to be the therapist for a lot of these people, to put the pieces back together. So, the point I'm making is, if I'm going to do a ceremony with that intention, inevitably, one or two of my friends will say, "Oh, I want to go, I want to go." And I'm like, "You're not ready for something like this. Just trust me, you're not ready for this." But there are a couple people out there that I've done this with that are ready, and you can hear the sound of us flying through the fucking universe at the speed of now. And, on those experiences, I'm just simply saying you've got to go into them ready to die. And so, I have said to my wife, both of them, but I haven't been doing those intense types because I've had so many of them. I realized, okay, I've got the information I need. I don't need to keep testing God right and taunting God, it's not a good idea. But I have told Penny, "I'm sorry, honey, but I've got research I got to do on God and death. And should I not come home, feel free to write my will however you want," or, do whatever you want with the Institute or make sure Paul Jr. gets this much or that much. But I've had that conversation with her a number of times because honestly, I do go to the point where I don't know if I'm going to come back.

AUBREY: And that's the proper level of respect for any of these things. I think a lot of people do them with this kind of flippant triviality, but it's not that.

PAUL: No, it's disrespectful to the whole... Not only to the medicines and the spirits that give us the gifts of awakening. But it's disrespectful to the entire healing and shamanic tradition. And I believe you always get yourself back. So, people that behave that way, if you think of love as a boomerang, whatever you put out comes back. So, if you're disrespectful to that, you're probably disrespectful to a lot of people and a lot of beings in the world, and just not an intelligent way to go. Because when you go that deep into God, you're going to confront yourself with great intensity, and that's a side note. When you die, you come face to face with you. The whole Christian idea of judgment and some elaborate fucking story of angels weighing you and seeing if, the Egyptian story. Now I get them as metaphors. I know what they mean, because I've studied a lot of these things. I think it's Isis will weigh your heart against the feather. And if you're heavier than the feather, you can't move on to the higher planes. But we do that ourselves is what I'm saying.

AUBREY: Yeah, God does judge you, and that God is you that judges yourself.

PAUL: It is you. Paradoxically, there is no other God than you. And this goes to the same paradox as if a tree falls in the forest, and there's no one there to hear it, does it make any noise? Well, you can jump around that one all day long, and many people do. But the reality of it is, you're a point of consciousness in the Divine. I'm a point of consciousness in the divine and it's only because I'm conscious, and you're conscious that we can share this relationship with each other. Would you agree with that?

AUBREY: Mm-hmm.

PAUL: Okay, well, then it's only because I'm conscious that I can even be conscious of God as a possibility. And therefore, if God is the source of consciousness, it's only because I'm consciousness that I'm aware of that. Therefore, if I'm not here, I'm not conscious, then death doesn't mean anything. Neither does life and neither does God. That makes sense?


PAUL: If you're here and you're alive, and you're conscious, then you're a point. And if one of the definitions I think I've shared with you before of God is, God is a sphere whose circumference is everywhere. Excuse me, a sphere whose circumference is nowhere and a center whose presence is everywhere. So if you are a sphere, whose circumference is nowhere and a center of consciousness that is everywhere, it means if you are conscious, then you're a center of consciousness. And if that did not exist, then nothing else could exist either. Because if the tree falls in the forest, and there's nobody there to hear it, does it make any noise? It's the same paradox, isn't it? So, really, all I'm saying is, think of consciousness as light. Think of everything in existence that's not light as dark. If you have no light, you wouldn't know what darkness was, like a fish doesn't know it's in water, and you wouldn't be able to see anything anyhow. So, if you think of the spirit soul as a light that sees unto itself, then ultimately, at the end of the day, if that light isn't there, there is nothing to be known. Now, you could still be alive and believe in God, but that doesn't help me at all. You understand?

AUBREY: Right.

PAUL: Like if, if Aubrey dies, I still stay alive, let's say. But if Paul dies, Aubrey still stays alive. So, my sense of what's happening at any phase of life or death as we're talking about depends upon a locus of consciousness. And that's what a soul is. A soul is a locus of consciousness, and the flow of energy and information through that locus is spirit. And without that combination, which happens to be the prerequisite for all existence, none of us could be aware of anything.

AUBREY: So, here's a question that I've had. So we think of the brain as the computer that stores memory, that stores information, right?

PAUL: People do, I don't.

AUBREY: Right. So, this is the the idea that's out there in the zeitgeist, is that the brain is the place that stores information. Although we've presumably traveled to places; the astral dimension, celestial dimension, whatever you want to call them, places where you are no longer in the physicality, in the physical 3D world.

PAUL: I'm a remote viewer, I do it all the time.

AUBREY: Right, but in those places, there still seems to be the access to the memories, to all of the storage of information. As you said, life is information and energy, but there's still access to information. How is that information still stored in the spirit soul in the absence of a brain, as the brain is deteriorating back into carbon and minerals, and the worms are returning it to soil, what is the mechanism in your best estimation of how information is stored without a local storage bank?

PAUL: Okay. First of all, the body and everything in it, are a product of the creative forces of the soul itself. But the soul and the spirit that is Aubrey cannot be separate from all the souls and spirits that have informed him. And one of the things that you find is that when you go through a death experience, or you practice them, or you investigate them is that at every level of our experience, when we die we come into contact with other souls that are at that level of existence. So, for example, when you die a physical death, you will be consciously born into the astral realm, and you will meet souls. And this is why one of the most consistent things you hear about near-death experiences or people that were with someone as they were dying, they say, "Oh, my God, my mother!" And they're talking about people that have already passed on there to meet them, okay? Because souls move in groups. That's another long discussion.

AUBREY: Soul pods.

PAUL: Yeah, so I call them groups. And so, what I'm pointing out is that who Aubrey is right now, is not just Aubrey. Aubrey's not only got all of his soul, family inside of them, talking to him, expressing life through him as him. But then we have to say well, who influenced them and who influenced them? So, you get into this very interesting experience. It's everybody in the universe. So, Aubrey turns out to be a unique expression that we all called into existence together, because some part of the collective consciousness that we will call God, which includes us, has something that it wants to experience of itself that needs a unit of individuality and novelty. And that's why we only exist as this form one time. No Paul Chek will ever be on this planet with these fingerprints ever again. Nor will it occur in the universe. Neither will this set of fingerprints we know of as Aubrey's. So, what I'm saying is, is that, first of all, what we are is not just a single entity. It is an amalgamation of the whole, because everything begins from God, and therefore everything is God, and everything is what it is because it's aware of itself at some level. And that awareness is ubiquitous, because what it's witnessing behind your ego and your sense of self is the same awareness that's looking through my eyes, okay? So, the first point I'm addressing is that your body is actually not something that encapsulates who you really are, your body is something that you created to fit into this domain that has the right dimensions, the right characteristics, quality, size, organ types, nerve types. You chose the gene line you chose specifically to give you the antenna system you needed to interact with the frequency domains in which your novelty was required as part of the art dance, or play of God, okay? Why that's an important predistinction is because your brain is actually not a locus of consciousness, it's a limiter of consciousness. It is a filtration system.

AUBREY: That's what Huxley talked about in "Doors of Perception."

PAUL: Itzhak Bentov also uses the definition of a television set. He says, just because you kill the television set does not mean that the television frequency is gone, because anybody with a television set can tune into it. And that wave is everywhere simultaneously. So, your brain is really a sending and receiving station. And it's linked to all your chakras. So it turns out, what is your brain? It's a collection of neurons that feed your whole body. In fact, brain embryologically grows out of the same tissue that your skin does, and your skin is the sensory pole of the brain. So, you're actually wrapped in brain tissue. In actual fact, the inside of your head brain has no sensory neurons, you can cut it open and eat it and you wouldn't even feel a thing. So, what we think of as the brain actually is just something that we call the brain, but it's actually integrated with every part of the body, and it's just a central locus, where information flows so that decisions can be made. Without going into a bunch of brain science, I'm only making the point, you turn the channel on on the television, you got a completely different world, right? Completely different movie. You can go from bad news to good news, you can go from sad movie to action to goopy love story. So, the brain's actually limiting, it's actually designed like an antenna. And the antenna that works on a cell phone is not the same as the antenna that works on a television is not the same that works on a shortwave radio. Because the antenna has to be constructed, so that it can capture the specific frequencies it's designed to tune into by geometry. That's the mechanics of an antenna. So, all bodies are antennas. And a wolf's experience of itself is specific to the wolf because its body shape, its body structure, and its brain and nervous system are tapping into all the frequency bundle that creates wolfness. And if you took the wolf's consciousness and put it into a bear, it wouldn't be a wolf anymore. It would be a bear because it would be in a bear body. And if it remembered being a wolf, it would say wow, I've got all these other ideas now, like I didn't used to want huckleberries but I got this big thing for huckleberries all the sudden, and salmon. I've got this burning need for salmon. So, what we really are is a non-local projection. And the brain just happens to be the receiving station that allows us to have the experience of separation from our soul group and separation from the whole, which allows love to have much more specific currency. Because you perceive yourself as an individual, I perceive myself as an individual, and because of that, you can become the object of my devotion. But if I was actually looking at you and seeing everything that ultimately made you up at the subatomic level, or we say the non-local level, I would be looking at a sea of beings that goes so far, it would just become an ocean. And, I would find myself swimming in the same fucking ocean going, oh my God, me and Aubrey are actually the same person, pretending to be different so we can experience love together. So, what am I saying? What we call mind is actually a dimension of energy and information that does not require a body, but is something that expresses itself in and through a body. But that doesn't mean that another soul that's evolved out of a body cannot meet and greet Aubrey in the dimension of the astral, or the mental, or the higher mental, and not meet his body. Because Aubrey is just as real at those dimensions, and when we practice things like remote viewing and astral travel, we come to be aware of all sorts of stuff that can be verified through our own experience. And realize, wow, this limited perception of who I am as a body was very, very tricky and deceptive. But now that I know the truth of myself, I know that I'm actually alive on all these other dimensions, and I'm currently invested in this role, because I'm here to learn, express and experience, unique things that we find out later, turned out to be, a contribution to the whole. If you die tomorrow, and we all get everyone that knows Aubrey together, and say, what did Aubrey add to your life? I would have a very long list of things from a very large number of people that would have to include every person that ever listened to one of your podcasts, everyone that ever read one of your book, wore any of your clothes, you see? You're going to have a very large number of people. Then we say okay, now how did that way of learning and relating from Aubrey affect your wife, your husband, your kids, your grandparents, your friends? And guess what happens? Pretty soon the whole fucking globe is lit up with Aubrey. So then you have to say, well, who was he? He was all of us. Who is he? He's all of us. Where did he go? Everywhere. Where did he come from? Nowhere. Where's he at now? Everywhere.

AUBREY: That's such a beautiful way to look at things. And then to understand that there's just those levels of individuation and articulation in between the everywhere and nowhere. And so, as I've been articulated as an Aubrey, according to the primordial Aubrey source, which has been there.

PAUL: The divine urge.

AUBREY: Yep. And then as I'm choosing and growing and expressing as Aubrey, I'm informing in a bilateral path. As my soul is informing me, I'm informing my soul, which is the primacy of the urge to learn and experience is this bilateral, this is where both me, physically and my soul, we're all learning together in conjunction.

PAUL: And to take it one fundamental step further. All of it is because God cannot know itself without looking into itself. Because God by definition is that for which there is no other. Therefore, the only way God can have an experience is to look into itself. In the instant that God looks into any part of itself, consciousness enlivens what was once implicate, a seed or a potential, and it becomes active in the now. And to the degree that God wants to experience itself as Aubrey Marcus, that consciousness begins to interact with the rest of God, because that's what makes love work. And therefore, if there was nobody here but Aubrey, Aubrey could not have an experience, because Aubrey would now be trapped in the same situation God is, going, "Well, what the fuck. I'm in the middle of nowhere."

AUBREY: "It's the worst place ever. It's the void. It's the place that you were talking about earlier.

PAUL: So, the point I'm driving it here is that all of us, are God experiencing itself. And that's why evil is as important to God as good, because God could not possibly know itself if it only looked into the good of itself, or the light of itself. It has to look into the darkness with equal honesty. And paradoxically, you cannot have consciousness without those two diametrically complimentary. They're diametrically opposed in their extremes. A saint versus a murderer, but in actuality, they're just complimentaries of each other. And as hard as it is for people with immature spiritual and religious beliefs to understand, someone like Adolf Hitler or an axe murderer, or a public shooter, is actually as divine and as much in service to God, because God has got to know its own potentials, and it has absolutely no fear of dying. In fact, in a meditation a few months ago on medicines, which I do a lot, because those two go really well together. I asked questions God, because on certain medicines my clairvoyance is wickedly enhanced. So, like I can see thoughts, like forms instantly. I said to God via my soul, I said, "I have a question for God. God, are you listening?" And then I got a yes. Now, God knows what the prerequisite of the question is because people keep trying to destroy themselves. They torture themselves with bad food, all the things we were talking about, right? People are so busy not living, they forget to live and then they die wishing they'd lived, right? So I said, "God, why do you keep trying to destroy yourself?" You know what God said back? "I can't." I'm like, holy fuck, I get it. What God was saying to me is, don't worry about that. Those are all the experiences I need to have to know myself. I need to try everything. I need to be depressed, I need to be beaten, raped, pillaged, loved, sage guru, dipshit, mass fucking murder, crippled. I cannot know myself, and don't worry about that, Paul, I can't die. I cannot destroy myself. What you're looking at and calling me is actually my creations. And yes, I'm invested in them and I enliven them. But the truth is, all that dissolves is the form that I've imagined and enlivened. But it's nothing more than my imagination. And what you call real because it's materialized is nothing but entangled light. It's the intensity of my dream. And I dream nothing into something. And that's what I do. That's how I come to know myself. So, God was saying, Don't worry about it. Yes, be in service to these people, because that's your role. And yes, I love it when you come help me, because it feels good, I feel loved. But don't worry about those people, all of them will know the truth of themselves when they die. And I have actually done remote viewing, and asked my soul to take me into the experience of people dying. And I've watched people dying in the most amazing experiences, is one, some executive that's making lots of money, like a CEO, who has not spent nearly enough time with his wife and kids feels tremendous remorse and guilt for it. But he's addicted to making money and being this high powered dude, when he dies of high blood pressure or coronary artery disease. He realizes that he's still alive and has the conversation with God or the angels, however you want to put it, usually crack up laughing, but they cry their eyes out with equal intensity. They go oh my God, this was so funny. I thought I was going to die. I thought that was I was losing everything. I thought I was sinning and God says, oh, no, it wasn't that fucking fun. I mean, God didn't say fuck, but God says wasn't that fun? Wasn't that an amazing experience? And guess what they'll all see you when they pass over to and your death was an important part of their experience. And if you try to change it, you actually change who your children and who your friends are meant to become. You are as important to them as they are to you. And the choices we make as individuals is our co-creative freedom to be a creator with God. Choosing to eat well and live well is our co-creative choice, choosing to deny the body, destroy the body, ignore the body, God says yes, let's do it.

AUBREY: And therein lies the paradox because that could get you to a point where, almost a point of nihilism where nothing matters. If you wanted to take it that way, and I don't believe that's the way you take it. Because really, there's certain things that in this physical body and in this mind, feel a lot better. It feels a lot better to be free. Feels a lot better to be in love. And when you have compassion, when you do care about others, you can make that choice to actually expand and grow the amount of freedom, joy, love that people experience. Because it's just kind, it's kindness.

PAUL: And any nihilist is really making an admittance to the rest of us that they have not focused on the depth and the beauty, and the quality and the capacity of love. Because anyone that truly pays attention to what love does to any living being, and even nonliving beings if you're a shaman, for example, a Shaman can put tremendous love into a crystal and it can become a very powerful healing tool, because it's imbued with the spirit and the love of that Shaman. And I do this myself, and this is part of real magick. Not M-A-G-I-C, but M-A-G-I-C-K, healing magic. Amulets for example. No one is a nihilist if they're equally committed to exploring love, because when you really explore love, you explore and experience the depth of why God creates the illusion of separation, because ultimately God is as alone as alone gets. By definition, God is that for which there is no other. The intensity of God's aloneness is what creates God's dreaming of everything into existence. And what is the worst thing you can do to a human being? Put them in solitary confinement. What do they usually do within about 72 hours? Start creating imaginary friends. Otherwise, there's no reason to live, and they will either commit suicide or die of loneliness. So, God does exactly what we do. And God's isolation--

AUBREY: Yeah, experience the longing and the experience of another, love.

PAUL: God dreams other into existence, and that dreaming of other into existence is the prerequisite for love, because you have to have an object of devotion or love has no currency, which is why in previous shows with you, I have defined love as the flow of energy and information through empathic and compassionate connecting to self, and/or other. Love is also consciousness becoming aware of itself. And if God's not consciousness, then God really isn't anything because without consciousness, you can't be aware of anything. It makes God a useless principle to begin with.

AUBREY: All right, we're back from the most interesting intermission smoke break of all time. We talked about the essence of dragons, all kinds of things. I want to summarize a little bit of what we were saying from a Rumi quote, a poet that we're both in love with. Everyone is so afraid of death, but the real Sufis just laugh. Nothing tyrannizes their hearts. What strikes the oyster shell does not damage the pearl.


AUBREY: And that's the thing. as we look out in this world, people don't understand that they're the pearl. They think that they're the oyster shell, they think they're the skin, the ego, all of these aspects. They're playing the finite game, trying to build their titles, trying to build everything in this quest for immortality, the immortality being the memory of who they are in this very limited scope, not understanding they're already always immortal. They can't be anything but immortal because they're the divine. And that's the pearl. And so that's why when you realize that, it's time to play, it's time to laugh, it's time to love. Everything you mentioned; fuck and feast, and play pranks on somebody, and smile about it and play basketball and do whatever the fuck feels good.

PAUL: Be a loving devil.

AUBREY: That's right, that's right. An angel with your devil's horns, acknowledging both and playing the game so that everybody can continue to play. Rather than trying to restrict play and end the game for everybody.

PAUL: And being honest enough to remember the truth of what you just said, when you're on the sharp end of the devil's horn. Meaning, the devil comes to play a little game with you too, whether it being someone ripping you off, or whatever it could be, right? Getting hit, blindsided in a car by a drunk driver. It takes real spiritual courage to be able to carry that intellectual concept into what we would call reality. But, I wrote a note there while you were talking, because there's something about this whole issue of so many people being stuck as the oyster shell, and the guts of the thing, not realizing that they're the pearl, which is really the soul. And that is that, if you look in some philosophical and metaphysical systems, they describe that what we call evil is actually the forces that hold form together. So they're responsible for holding the planets and the stars and the moons and the houses and the cars and the watches and the tables and the chairs together. why that's so important is that you cannot have consciousness without limitation. By definition, God is unconditional love. How can you have an experience of, or relate to something that's unconditional? I'm talking to you, that's a condition. Even if you're picking up in a telepathic communication, that's a condition. There's energy flowing into you, somehow, some way.

AUBREY: And it's also bound by time as well.

PAUL: As soon as you make form, you make time. As soon as you have relationship, you have time, okay? So whenever you have love, until it becomes unconditional, you have form. Three requisites of consciousness according to Itzhak Bentov are space, movement, and time. So if you create something, you already have to have space. And whatever it's created out of is moving. An atom is moving it just under the speed of light. Even photons are moving at the speed of light. So you have to have space, time, and movement, and thought is movement. Thoughts move, they have beginnings, middles and ends, okay? So, the principle that I'm driving at is that the principle of limitation is absolutely essential to consciousness, because without me defining where Aubrey ends, and where Paul begins, I couldn't have a relationship with Aubrey. How would you know where your house was, if there wasn't a limitation on your yard and the structure of your house, or which car would be yours. If they all turned into a puddle of water, we would never find our car, there wouldn't be enough limitation. So the problem is, is that a lot of people don't honor the fact that the thing we call death creates an impossibility wall, it creates the illusion of being the end, it creates a limitation. And without the limitation, people are less likely to take life seriously. And it is through confronting the illusion of limitation, because if God has unconditional love, then limitation must be an illusion that has a function and the function is consciousness. The function is form, the function is relationship, and the function is love. So, when we learn that... For example, if you were if you went to the Olympics, and some sprinter showed up looking like a centipede and had 50 legs, well, it would probably be pretty hard outrun somebody that that had 50 legs, that could move as fast as the guy with two legs, because his stride would be quite long. Just as a working metaphor. So limitation, actually, is something that's fundamentally critical to relationship in every level, because you cannot have consciousness of anything without limitation. Look at our language, it's 26 symbols called the letters of the alphabet. Each of them has a limitation. And if we didn't have a limit to the sound of A before it began to be B, we would never have language or the ability to communicate.

AUBREY: Or any poetry. And this is where life becomes art. The limitation creates the art. There is no art without limitation.

PAUL: And that's what color is.

AUBREY: Yeah, how do you paint if you're painting with the all color? How do you look at something if it's the all light? How do you listen to music if it's the all sound? How do you communicate or write poetry if it's the all letter?

PAUL: Yes, so limitation is actually one of the fundamental tools of creation within we will call the mind of God. Because without limitation, there's no relationship and without relationship, there's nothing to be conscious of. Death is ultimately a form of limitation, and I call it an impossibility wall. So to clarify that, in my PPS Success Mastery lessons on PPS Lesson Two Self-management, I show how the mind is worked, how its brainwashed, how it's programmed, and how to use the science of brainwashing to unbrainwash yourself. Brainwashing shouldn't be called brainwashing because it sounds like cleaning but--

AUBREY: Like program.

PAUL: It's programming, right? I forgot what point I was about to make there. The real point I'm driving at is that, we have to have... Oh, the impossibility will. So, remember back in the day. I don't know if you were old enough to remember this, but it was believed and said by scientists that no human being could run faster than four minutes in a mile. They said it was physiologically impossible. Then Jim Fixx ran, I think 3:59 or something like that.

AUBREY: I thought it was Prefontaine. It wasn't that guy?

PAUL: No, it was a guy. I think it was Jim Fixx. But anyhow, whoever the first guy was something like 13 people broke the four-minute mile within the next year. And within the next couple of years, something like 57 people did it. So the point I'm making is we have a socially contrived, scientifically validated impossibility wall that people believed so thoroughly, that the question is how many athletes couldn't run faster than that because they believed it couldn't be done?

AUBREY: Yeah, I couldn't beat my mom at tennis until I was so much better than her that it was it was ridiculous. She had to be like 60 years old, and I had to be in my absolute prime, because I believed that I couldn't beat her because she was a great tennis player. I had to get so much better. So it was almost, and I've seen that in my own sport. When there's a wall, and then I have to get so far past the wall to cross the wall. So, it's almost like to beat the four-minute mile, you have to almost be ready to run a 3:40 just to even beat the four-minute, if that four-minute, the stronger that is fixed in your mind. And that's how the limitations of the of the mind really work.

PAUL: Yeah, or you've got to be able to run a quarter mile, slightly faster than four-minute pace. And when you can do one, you've got to train to run two. And when you can do two, now look, I'm 75% of the way, my impossibility was close to going down. So, sometimes you got to take a project and chunk it into bite sized pieces, so that you can actually get real and see progress at a smaller level, to inspire you to keep going. But really, what is the greatest impossibility wall creator of all? Fear. How much of that fear is false evidence appearing real? Most of it. How much of it is socially contrived and passed on to us by others, who are in the habit of being fearful? And what percentage of us are truly pioneers that are brave enough to go where others fear to go? Not everybody would be the first man on the moon. They would think immediately, I'm probably not coming back. And that would be their impossibility wall. How many people actually live a life of almost poverty or lower moderate income, because they have limiting beliefs about their ability to earn X number of dollars, or even if they deserve it, they have all these programmed belief systems put into their head? So, you actually have no free will, until you begin to investigate your own programming, and heal anything that's creating a limitation on your freedom. Because until that unconscious programming is made conscious, you actually don't have free will. You're just a recapitulation of mom, dad and whoever brainwashed you into believing the things you believe.

AUBREY: Yeah, and as the Toltec says, the mitote, the marketplace of ideas that condition is constantly. And then you have these pioneers, like Wim Hof is a great example. And his records of withstanding the cold and actually changing the way that the body responds to cytokines from an injection of E. coli, scientifically validated, all these things.

PAUL: So, he's breaking all these impossibility--

AUBREY: Breaking all of these impossibility walls, and then somebody's like, oh, wow. But then some people were like, they'll fight for that impossibility. They'll say, "Oh, well, he's an alien. He's not like all of us." And then he's just saying the same thing that Christ said, not that Wim Hof is Christ. Well, we're all Christ. But he's saying, no, no, no, this is not just what I can do. This is what anybody can do. And I'm showing you the way but people will be like, oh, no, no, that's just him. Or like someone like Kuang Duke who self-emulated. And there was this moment where can you really hold meditation while flames are licking your robes and ripping apart your skin? Can you hold that? Because your meditation and prayer is so strong.

PAUL: Yes.

AUBREY: Yes, you can. We all can. It's possible for all of us because we're all different articulations of the same source. And instead of alienating these individuals that are the pioneers and saying, Oh, they're special, the person who creates that spontaneous remission of cancer, that person who accomplishes what Wim Hof has or what Kuang Duke could do, we can do that too.

PAUL: Absolutely. And I think Bill Gates may have gotten a little insecure of Wim Hof and said, okay, you think you can tear impossibility walls down, and let me build one for you and see how well you do with it. We'll just call it COVID. So you see the dick-swinging going on. Of course, I'm making a joke of it, right? But there are people that have just as much fun building impossibility walls and what is it? You must choose Jesus as your savior, or you're going to burn in hell. No matter what religion you are. And so when you ask, okay, what about someone who lived a beautiful life, loving, caring person but never heard of Jesus in their entire life and is from a third world country where they don't even know what Jesus means? Does that apply to them too? Well, a lot of unenlightened Christians would say absolutely. That guy is going to burn in hell. Well, that makes for one dumbass God.

AUBREY: It makes for the devil.

PAUL: It doesn't make Jesus very empathetic and compassionate either.

AUBREY: No, it's the demonic realm.

PAUL: One of the fastest ways to build an impossibility wall is to be ignorant and not be intelligent enough to ask, is this really true? The day you begin asking, is this really true, you go into the level that Steiner calls the awareness soul. When you actually authentically question whatever comes your way with healthy skepticism, and only make a decision when you have adequate information on both sides of the impossibility wall, like COVID, is this really true? These people say it is. But these people are just as qualified, and they say this is what's really going on. Okay, these people may be just as qualified that say COVID is really true. But what are they producing in the world? How do they practice medicine? Are they practicing allopathic medicine? Is it highly profitable? And oh, by the way, these people over here, give their love and services away, help people that can't afford it, and are actually trying to free you from the medical system by using the technology of medicine, while these people are invested in keeping you in it. So, only when you look at both sides of the impossibility wall we'll call COVID, can you actually reach the level of awareness where you make an adult decision for yourself. And only then are you using your mind holistically and effectively and practicing real thinking, which is why David Bohm said, real thinking is hard work. That's why most people just rearrange their prejudices and call it thinking. But most people's prejudices aren't even their own. They've been programmed into them by TV, churches, parents, and other unenlightened people that don't actually know how to think constructively. And our entire education system with rare exception is designed to teach you what to think, but rarely ever teaches you how to think.

AUBREY: Yeah. So, this is an interesting slight paradox that I'd like to explore. So, for those of us who are going through this process, thinking, weighing, analyzing, understanding the mechanisms of fear that might be at play, that might be limiting thought, that might be restricting our openness to this, our own selfishness, our own way in which we see ourself as the center of the universe, rather than a player in the infinite game designed to keep it going. And I've been mentioning "Finite and Infinite Games" a little bit. I'm reading that now. It's a beautiful book by James Carse. Unbelievable.

PAUL: Great guy for you to interview.

AUBREY: He just passed.

PAUL: Oh, you're kidding me!

AUBREY: Yeah, I believe that's true. Can someone look that up?

PAUL: I have him scheduled for a podcast. Round two.

AUBREY: Yeah, I believe he just passed.

PAUL: Oh, I love that man.

AUBREY: Yeah. Can someone confirm that?

PAUL: Oh, my God, James, if you're gone, I'm here with you, buddy. I love you. Your life was so beautiful. And you've touched me so deeply. And if you haven't passed yet, it's still true.

AUBREY: Amen to that. Amen to that.

PAUL: When did he die? Oh my god.

AUBREY: Yeah, your podcast is probably one of the last times where we've got to hear him in a public interview.

PAUL: Did you listen to that podcast?

AUBREY: I did, it was unbelievable.

PAUL: Isn't he just the most gorgeous human being?

AUBREY: He is.

PAUL: Almost 90 years old, lucid. Such a beautiful teacher. That's a man that I wanted to kiss. I really did. He really made my wings grow.

AUBREY: Yeah. I mean, he contributed something to the world that very few people contribute, just a radically beautiful idea that will last forever.

PAUL: And his book, "The Religious Case Against Belief" is excellent.

AUBREY: Okay, I have to check that one out too.

PAUL: He's got about 8 or 10 books. I've probably read four of them.

AUBREY: Awesome. Well, to go to the point and as you said, so much gratitude and love for him where he's at for the pearl that articulated as James Carse. He talks about, so we're in this world now where there's a lot of people who are just, fear, vaccinations, this whole kind of paradigm that we're in. And James Carse in his book, he says that evil is the termination of infinite play. Infinite players do not attempt to eliminate evil in others, for to do so is the very impulse of evil itself and therefore a contradiction. They only attempt to paradoxically recognize in themselves, the evil that takes form in attempting to eliminate evil elsewhere. So, here to me is a paradox because I think one of the things we want to do is help unrestrict people from the prisons that they're in, and allow them to have this genuine free will beyond the programming that they've had, to make the choices they want to make.

PAUL: He's not against that.

AUBREY: And I don't think he is, but nonetheless, there is a way in which we have to be both the infinite player that allows all to be understanding that all is God and all is perfect, but also the willingness to be the player that takes the choice to help people to see the reality as it is.

PAUL: Yeah, the difference is, what he's leaning towards there is if you go start telling people, your mask is stupid, what the fuck you doing? Don't you know any better? Now you're actually imposing upon their right to that belief and that orientation. So in effect, you're acting evil toward them. Because you're diminishing them for being who they are, and having the beliefs that they have, which is their sovereignty and their free will--

AUBREY: Or calling them sheep, for example. Any kind of insult or anger or aggression towards anyone.

PAUL: Yes, and I must ask great spirit for forgiveness, because sometimes I really get frustrated, and I border on being evil. And saying, "Wake up, goddammit. Don't you realize this is a big fucking game, and you don't have to be caught in the loser's box all the time." You know, the penalty box. Because there is a penalty box for not waking up, right? So you see, having studied James and had time to have conversation with him and share emails with him, and having a depth of knowledge to read the book, and probably get more out of it than most people can, if we make an offering out of love to somebody, which is why I do podcasts, which is why I have almost 600 videos on YouTube. Why I do things that I do for the public, write books, write articles, piles of stuff for free, thousands and thousands of hours of free work. That's bird seed I put out. But I don't grab people and force their face into the bird seed and say, "Eat, dumb shit, you've got to wake up because you're making my life miserable, because I've got to look at you're doing this stupid shit to yourself all day." Now, think of when you're in a family and you're watching somebody in your family do stuff to themselves. Like my brother was a drug addict. It was hard to watch. I don't want to divulge too much about my family. But let's just say there's been many instances in my own family where I'm like, "Are you kidding me? Why are you doing that to yourself?" Whether it be gambling, sex, addiction, whatever, I've seen a lot. And I don't have to walk too far to find it. Nor do most of us. Now, it's very hard when somebody that you love is living out a drama, and you can see how painful the role they're taking is. But if we impose upon them and diminish them, then by definition of what James Carse is sharing in the passage you just read, we're actually practicing evil. And then you're not playing the game fairly. A game is a game only because, first a game requires a world. A world is a place that has defined borders. And a game requires spectators that are not in the game, they're watching the game. Like if you're in the stands at a football game, you're a spectator, you're not a football player. But the world is created by the stadium. Or you could say by everybody watching, because the world is anywhere where there's a circumscribed area with spectators. And the spectators are watching the game, not in the game, okay? So, if we are forcing people out of their game into our game, because for some reason, their game is making us uncomfortable, like it's uncomfortable to watch your own brother be a drug addict. It's uncomfortable to watch him get thrown in jail, then get thrown in prison. So, if I had a spiritual depth at the time to really just have empathy and compassion for him, and not try to fix him, and just say, what's really going on inside of you? What are you looking for? Instead of trying to say he was wrong, then I wouldn't have taken the position of threatening his position and telling him about how he's ruining the family, and whatever the mind conjures up. Because really, how much of that comes from our own discomfort, and our own unwillingness to feel the pain through sympathetic resonance that somebody we love is creating for themselves. So often, we intervene and try to stop another's game to protect us from having to feel the pain of the empathy, of witnessing and being a bystander to their game, because sometimes those games directly affect us. Which means we're actually somewhat in the game if we choose to let it affect us negatively.

AUBREY: The tricky part about the world that we're in now is because, and of course, that makes perfect sense. And what we should not do is impinge upon others people's rights to play their game unless their game is impinging upon our right to play our game.

PAUL: Then now we're simultaneously in the game and they're on one side of the field, and we're on the other.

AUBREY: Right. And, one of the challenges is, is that in this COVID world, there's the idea that if you're playing the game where you believe your own beliefs, and that belief includes that these masks aren't effective, and that they aren't necessary--

PAUL: Neither is social distancing.

AUBREY: Right. And you're playing that game. The game that everybody else is playing is giving them the justification to impinge upon your game, to yell at you, to ridicule you, because their idea is that you're now spreading germs that could affect them, and their ability to play their sovereign game of health. And so it's giving everybody permission to impose upon, oppose upon everybody else's game. And so, it's kind of devolved the whole sovereignty of allowing somebody to be who they want to be. And if you want to choose to go and dance together, if you want to choose to go and this bar is open, and you can do it, now all of a sudden, with this contagion theory idea of everything that's going on, there's this like, right to impose their tyrannical will upon everybody else.

PAUL: Yes. So there's lots that I can say about that. But let's wind back because you've used a magic word twice in this explanation. Ideas. Okay? The gold standard test for determining who has COVID Is the PCR test, which is scientifically inept at diagnosing a Coronavirus as an illness. It's not even for that. The inventor himself said it should never be used for that. And I've seen studies ranging between 65 and 90% false positive, which means there'll be that many false negatives. So, what we have is an illusion based on the illusion of objectivity. And nobody that I know of has ever actually had a Coronavirus, and said, "Here it is." They may have one in Wuhan lab, but that's part of the illusion. We don't know if it's out here or not. Donald Trump got COVID? Yeah, how did you determine that? And when we find out that doctors are being told by medical boards to diagnose anybody with anything that even remotely looks like COVID as COVID. But anything that remotely looks like COVID looks like about 140 other diseases, including the common flu. So, we created this whole stack of ideas like a house of cards, but people are worshipping it as though it's real, to the point that they have lost their jobs, lost their homes, living in tents, and running around and masks and actually believing. And we know from placebo and nocebo trials that those things are significantly more powerful than most drugs. And we also know from metaphysics, that if you put enough energy into any thought, it attracts matter to itself. So, here's the paradox. If you really take quantum physics and science of mind, we're on the verge of right now of manifesting the virus and the test to make it legitimate. Because we need to validate our own idea, and we are putting so much energy into it, we are creating a real dragon collectively. And when everyone turns to any channel and gets the same message, you can see how easily they would believe it. But that does not make it true at all. How many people, for example, think that the devil is not God and exists somehow separate from God? Now, I would say most of the world population believes that. But that right there says to me, look, you have to ask yourself a fundamental question, what does the word God mean? And if you actually understand what the word God means, it means if there's any devil, it is God's creation, or there is no God. And if you have two Gods, one called God, one called the devil, you're stuck with another problem, who created them? And that's where you should be focusing. Right? So, you see, we all kind of are at a point now where we have to realize smoke and mirrors are very profitable. Impossibility walls are only impossible for people that can't think and don't ask bigger questions. And the question is, do we have a pandemic or do we have an epidemic of technology coupled with ideas used in such an effective way that people are now conditioned to the point where they don't even ask questions because they've been programmed what to think, not how to think. The instant this pandemic was announced, I turned to both my wives and said, "I can assure you, we are now entering in to the biggest hoax ever pulled on humanity, only matched closely by the First and Second World War." But now they can't afford to start a world war. So they're doing it invisibly, and they're going to put us all in an invisible jail and make us highly profitable. And this is the beginning of a war, where there's no sides. And that makes it even more profitable.

AUBREY: Scary.

PAUL: It's scary, but damn, is it exciting.

AUBREY: Yeah, I mean, if we're talking about wanting to incarnate at a time where we can be warriors that stand not with the imposition of evil, not with the destruction, not with where's the sniper rifles and all of the ways that we've looked at war in the past, but standing in our own love, in our own truth, in our own freedom with an invitation. Like you said, laying out the bird seeds, saying, look, here I am. Beyond fear, beyond all of these constructs. And, here's my hand, I'm not going to go grab you. But if you want to come hold my hand, go for it. And the more people that do that, maybe this is the exact necessity that we needed to wake up.

PAUL: It is absolutely, in my opinion, we have fallen into a trap of global unconsciousness, that really began strongly at the beginning of the Industrial Age. And we have been... Look, if you study the history of our education systems, it was started by plantation owners to teach slaves exactly what to do and what not to do. Thinking for yourself was absolutely frowned upon because it disrupted things like assembly lines. So, the entire education system was built by what we will call metaphorically, the kings and the queens of the world, specifically to condition the minds of the slaves of the world to do exactly what they wanted them to do. So, they did not teach you how to think, they taught you exactly what to think. And anything more than that is called creativity and it does not help the bottom line. And if it does, we'll decide, and you won't get any of the money, okay? In other words, they'll take your idea and pat you on the back and make more millions off of it. So, what we've got right now, is we have got a situation where our consumerist mythology that says, as long as you aren't happy, all you've got to do is buy something, and it'll make you feel better--

AUBREY: Which is proven false.

PAUL: Which is very false, but is also exquisitely profitable to those making the products that supposedly make you feel better, and has been for a long time. This is why marketing is so important. When we realize that we have been given white sugar, we've been given alcohol, we've been given bad tobacco, we've been given television. I tell people all the time, you better pay attention to what the word means. You think it means just watching a box sitting near the wall. Television actually means tell a vision. There's an old saying in Christianity. The ministers and the preachers say, if you give me a child, I will give you a preacher. Why? Because when you have a child with an open mind, you can tell it a vision and it believes it.

AUBREY: Yeah, conditioning.

PAUL: So you can condition that person easily. We've become passive by turning our trust over to authority figures, not taking care of our own health, believing what doctors say even when it's not working, believing what scientists say even when it's killing people. We have been so conditioned to the structure of hierarchy, that only a few of us question, and say, wait a minute isn't really true. And people are willing to have their organs cut out and their life ruined without actually questioning the authority, which causes a lot of pain in families, because there's inevitably somebody in there says wait a minute, there's other ways to do this, and the battle is on. So, what I'm saying is by all definitions, we have been kept unconscious. And what have they done for thousands of years with mystics who woke up and started to telling us the truth?

AUBREY: Crucifixion.

PAUL: They burn them, torture them and get them the fuck out of dodge because it screws up the programming plan.

AUBREY: But ultimately, the thing that's working in the favor of, if you want to call it the light or working in the favor of love is that these patterns of incessant, infinite quest for power, the Sisyphean challenge to gain more power and more billions and more control, it ultimately doesn't lead to happiness. And you can look at any of these studies and it ultimately consumes itself. But it's almost like someone who's just trying to push it to the final envelope where it actually destroys itself, so that it can be destroyed, so that it can be actually reborn and alchemized as something else. And that's what we're kind of seeing in the world, these forces have just gotten so entrenched and so greedy, and they've bought into this idea so much, that more power will actually liberate them and get them to that feeling where they can actually feel love, power, being that saccharin surrogate for actual real love. And in this constant quest, they've pushed this different agenda. And however you want to believe it, whether it's a real virus or whether people are capitalizing on the virus, certainly there seem to be a rise in excess deaths. What's that from? When will that level out? There's a lot of factors, and I'm not trying to, I think you have a more defined opinion about the virus than I do. But either way, the power structures behind it, it's obvious. The censorship that's at a new level. I mean, everything that's being projected is, it's clear that there's something going on whatever your beliefs are.

PAUL: You don't have to be a very good detective to smell a rat in the house here. I mean, come on. But you see, the thing is, is that there's something I want to say in relationship to what you just shared. Everything you just said is true. But there's one other factor I feel needs to be added into the mix. We allow it.

AUBREY: Until we don't.

PAUL: We participate.

AUBREY: No fucking doubt. And that's the thing--

PAUL: You know how many Christians I've talked to that said, yeah, I know the Bible is a bunch of bullshit. And yeah, I know that this devil shit. And yes, I know the Catholic church is full of pedophiles. But I just like to go, my family goes, I'm in the habit of going. So, they just turn a blind eye to it and keep putting money in the hat that's feeding tremendous amounts of destruction. Yeah, people know that their cigarettes are full of carcinogens, but they say, I just like smoking, I don't fucking care. Yes, I know. I'm drinking myself under the table, but I just like it. That's what it means to be unconscious. The challenge that people don't consciously recognize is that being unconscious is comfortable, because it's easy. How hard do you have to work to get your body to digest food? Do you have to think about it? How about breathing? How about having a shit? How about making your whiskers grow? How about blinking your eyes? How about circulating your blood? You're managing 30 trillion biochemical reactions a second without thinking about it through the power of your unconscious mind. But the instant, I say Aubrey, I want you to count your heartbeats for 20 minutes, and don't miss a beat. Now you have to become conscious and within 20 minutes you'll be exhausted. Consciousness is not only the great liberator, but it's the great destroyer. Because you see, as soon as you're conscious of a virus that could kill you and ruin your life whether it's true or not, you now have to maintain the awareness and look for it everywhere. And make sure everyone's wearing masks and it burns up a truckload of energy. And that's exactly why David Bohm said, real thinking is hard work. Anyone that spends time like I do tackling the big problems, it's a meditation. I have to do the same thing I got to do for a workout, okay? I've got to go figure out this death thing. I book out time, I do the research, I do specific meditations. I treat it just like I'm working on my body in the gym or building a new exercise program for a patient with a back injury. It takes a lot of effort. And the more knowledge you have, the harder it hurts, the more it hurts. When you see, look, I've been teaching people for a long time. Doctor happy, Doctor diet, Doctor movement, Doctor quiet. Eat real food, get to bed on time, don't get sucked into the gimmicks, have fun. But know there's laws that go to a physical body and you're in nature, you're part of nature. So if you break the laws of nature, then you're going to come at a cost. People used to think I was nuts talking about food allergies, they thought I was nuts talking about Swiss balls. I've been called an idiot, a cult leader, everything for many fucking years. And only 20 years later, people come back say, oh my God, Paul, I just realized you were telling us the truth 20 years ago about all this shit. I was talking about cold water therapies and cold showers 14, 15 years ago before anyone ever heard of Wim Hof or any of these other guys. And people said, "Oh, this guy's a nut, he wants me to take a cold shower." They thought I was a nut case, right? People are just slow to learn, right? It doesn't matter how good the idea is. I say, look, quit drinking coffee and start your day with a cold shower. And if you need a coffee at lunch, go take a cold shower. And then if you still need coffee, drink just as much as you need, no more. People pay me 750 bucks an hour, and I can barely get them to do that sometimes. So, what am I saying? Consciousness takes a lot of brain power. It burns up a lot of energy. Your brain uses 80% of the available blood sugar in your bloodstream anytime you're consciously engaged or cognitively engaged. Like if you're thinking, what is two plus two? How many times have any of you in this room walked out of a test in school exhausted?

AUBREY: Of course.

PAUL: Because you had to be conscious. And your brain is the most inefficient organ in your body. So the point that I'm making is, we cannot afford to be unconscious anymore.

AUBREY: Just running off programming.

PAUL: We can't afford to run off programming because it makes us too vulnerable to predators. It makes us too slow to make changes as the environment's changing. And it does not grow us into the level of conscious beings that the world needs, because we as human beings, owe it to nature to use our awareness of science, biology, technology, agronomy. Every science we have has been telling us since Rachel Carlson, we're destroying our own home. We're shitting in our own water. We're pissing in our own food, as a metaphor. Yet, people don't pay attention to it. Well, guess what? Boys and girls, the bees are almost gone, the trees are almost gone, they barrier reefs are dying, the oceans are poisoned. Now, we're filling space with junk and satellites to the point that researchers say we're putting a great threat to ourselves. Because once those propulsion systems don't work anymore, they can come crashing to the earth. And here we are talking about launching 20,000 5G satellites, for God's sakes. I mean, the price of being unconscious is high. COVID is, in my opinion, a welcomed visitor.

AUBREY: An absolute clarion call, wake up call.

PAUL: Why? Because it's not really a threat. It's an illusion. So it's giving us a chance to wake up in the face of a holographic dragon that is being projected. So as much as Bill Gates drives me nutty, he is actually doing the important service of evil to give us all a choice to tear down the impossibility wall, and say thank you, Bill, we will take responsibility for our bodies, we'll take responsibility for whether or not we vaccinate our children. And we will also take responsibility for rehabilitating the medical system and the government, so we actually have one. And we will make sure that large corporations and billionaires do not get inside of governments and corporations like the medical system or anywhere else that should be only run by a democracy for the people, by the people. Because we've now had about 5,000 years of kings and queens that have been keeping us in the dark and playing with our heads. So, the question really boils down to one question, are you ready to be an adult, and accept responsibility for yourself and the world, and realize that what you do to this planet you do to yourself. All you've got to do is read "The Future of Life" by Edward O. Wilson, who's won over 100 awards for science and is a highly esteemed professor. And in the book, "The Future of Life" he makes it dead clear that we are the largest cause of extinctions on this planet, and we're killing shit faster than Mother Earth can create it. And we're undermining our very existence. I mean, I could go on for hours. All of this is just unconscious behavior that makes a few people rich and makes us seem like we're comfortable. But guess what? Steiner warned, human life depends on two things, bees and trees. And when they reach a critical level, life will cease to exist as you know it. And we're right there right now. And everyone's busy watching the TV to see what COVID is doing. We're destroying the planet and everyone's worried about whether they got a mask on. We're worried about racism. Let me tell you, racism is a pimple on an elephant's ass compared to the condition this planet is in. It won't matter a bit when you're hungry. Because if you get hungry enough, you'll kill anybody, no matter what color they are, unless you're spiritually evolved enough--

AUBREY: Or aligned with anybody. That's why, I was with a shaman recently. In his invocation prayer, he says the evil serves the light. And the reason why the evil serves the light is exactly this. Everything that's coming is putting us in a point... I mean, we would love to imagine that humans move from pure awareness, consciousness and inspiration. But really, a lot of times it takes desperation. It takes rock bottom. It takes that point where you're like, okay, okay, okay, enough is enough. I can't ignore this anymore. This is affecting my life now, and I'm fucking sick of it. And so let's go arm in arm with our brothers and sisters and create a new world that will continue the game on and on, the infinite game, this incredible opportunity for incarnation on this beautiful blue planet. And let's fucking keep this going. Not just for me, but for 100 generations behind me because I am life itself. And my job is to continue life itself. And so, thank you to all the darkness that's restricting that because it's building a fight inside me. It's building a sacred rage. It's building that kind of inner spiritual warrior that says, okay, okay, I'm awake now. I'm not going to worry about the trivialities of my fucking relationship drama, and this little drama, and this little business. Like, I'm here for life, and I'm going to fight for life. And fuck it, if I go out on my shield, because life gets destroyed, at least I'll know that I gave it fucking everything.

PAUL: If you and I die knowing we did the best we could to help others wake up, clean up, grow up and show up, we can't have done more. I went through a midlife crisis because I burned myself out trying to save the world. I realized you can't save the world because the world is devoted for this very process. The world is one place in the universe, where God sends souls to wake up to their creative powers and wraps us in matter, because it slows spirit down so much that we can't do too much destruction. But when you go to the astral plane, or the mental plane, you create at the speed of thought. And right here on this planet, research shows the average person thinks 68,000 thoughts a day of which 90% are negatively oriented. You do that in the in the astral plane, you'll destroy many, many other beings. So, we actually come as souls to be wrapped and matter where everything moves very slowly, and we all have a chance to interact with each other. So, that when we graduate out of this plane, we're adult enough with the powers of the magic of consciousness to respect other life and to be a citizen of the universe. So the Earth is a school yard for snotty nosed children that don't know any better. And these events are the events that say guess what, boys and girls classes coming to an end, and this is your test. If you figure out what's real, and not real, you get to graduate. And when you figure out what's real, you realize that what's really real is all the insects and all the birds and all the bees and all the flowers and all the trees that you've turned into computers, iPhones, and leather pants, and stupid shit that doesn't make a goddamn bit of difference unless you learn to eat plastic and aren't human anymore. So, what I'm saying is, is that this is the end of a cycle. And what was the big fear about the year 2000? That the world was coming to an end. But the Mayan's Long Count is coming to an end, but the reality is we're in a transitional state. 2012 was the end of that cycle and the beginning of a new one, and the beginning of a new one is okay, boys and girls. It's time to clean the schoolhouse up, because a new class is going to start and the new class is, wake up. Wake up. You can't be snot nosed kids just eating Cheerios and staring at porn all day, and smoking pot till you're just a complete fucking useless bum, and getting government handouts going, "Cool, man. I don't have to work anymore." Yeah, but you don't realize those government handouts are funded by your tax dollars. You didn't get any goddamn handout, you just got tricked again. In to more Cheerios, and more sugar, and more poor me stories and it's like, to me this... I was a paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne Division. Dude, when they put you through training, they make it intensely real as they can get without destroying their own soldiers. Why? Because you got to get ready for a battlefield. Shit's going to happen, heads are going to come off, blood's going to fly. You can't lose your composure. And the only way we can get you ready is to really just beat the shit out of you, and mess your head up, and make you think this is the worst thing in the world, and ask you every 10 seconds, would you like to give up and go see mommy now and have a cold meal or a warm meal? Would you like a shower? You don't have to be here. They offer you to quit and they make it more intense and they say, you can leave anytime, there's a bus right there. Just give up. Right? Well, right now is not a time to give up. Right now is a time to say, oh boy, we have some really big issues, far bigger than COVID. We have all got to collectively decide how we're going to get energy without mining coal out of the earth and destroying the planet. We've got to decide, do we still want to have racism? Do we still want to have wars over religious ideals? Do we still want to have an education system that doesn't work? Do we still want to have a banking system that's completely ripping us off? Do we still want to have a medical system that doesn't work, and it's the 37th most effective and the most expensive in the world? And the list just goes on and on and on. So I say, hey, guess what? The alarm just went off, it's time to stop sleeping. And if you don't wake up, they're going to restrict everything you got. They're going to watch everything you got, put you in invisible jail, take your money, and farm you like a little piggy in a commercial farm, and slaughter you at will.

AUBREY: You look at all the great stories and all these stories, Jordan Peterson, I think one of his great ideas is he calls them true stories, even when they're fictions, even when a Marvel movie. When they get it right, it's a true story. And every single hero is always put in a situation where the stakes are really high. And every video game that we've ever rented, every role playing game, every idea is the stakes are fucking high. And that's what calls the hero forward. Everybody's a farmer, happy to do their own thing. You look at all the, "Gladiator" for example, he was just happy chilling on his farm. Everybody, "Braveheart". William Wallace would have been with Merlin and his little hut, and they would have made little Wallace babies, and had fun throwing rocks at things. But all of a sudden, something came, and it woke a hero inside him. And we're all at this opportunity where the hero is getting woken up. And let's be fucking grateful for that. I would say--

PAUL: I'm excited about it.

AUBREY: Hell yeah, all right, here we go.

PAUL: You know the reason I'm excited about it? If we were entering into a world war right now, that's some dangerous shit, pal. There's like 23 countries around the world with nuclear weapons pointed at each other. We have enough nuclear weapons to destroy the planet entirely 179 times over, okay? So, the military industrial complex had to come up with a new way to make lots of money. And that's to create a war within. Globally. And invest in high security and 5G satellite systems and viruses that have vaccines that have tracking chips in you that tell you everything they want to know, so they can control you even more. So what they've done is they've turned the military industrial complex in like an antibody, that's now eating itself and we're going to publicly fund it too. That's the genius of it all, right? So people think, "Oh, my phone is so great." Yes, they're listening to everything you say. They know exactly when you're smoking pot, they know when you're taking it up the ass. They know when you're cheating Jesus, and they can come get you any fucking time you want. And your lawyer ain't going to help because they can film you, they got everything you download. You are being watched like never in the history of man. So, the reality of it is that this, there is no bombs flying. There's just an illusion flying. And so far, the research shows that no more people died of COVID than the seasonal flu. In fact, some statistics say less. So how much of this death is all potentially A, nocebo effect, people believing they got it when they probably had something else and just dying because they think that's what they're supposed to do. I mean, the mind is very powerful. Look, I've done a firewalk across 2600 coals, and I've watched a lot of people get burnt doing the same firewalk because they couldn't manage their mind. So, if your mind can get you to walk across 2600 coals with flesh, then your mind can get you to do about anything. And if your mind can get you to bend steel, and do all the things we've seen human beings do, from levitating to Tibetan masters holding molten shovels against their tongue for 60 seconds and laughing about it, then the mind is very, very powerful if it's used for positive things. And it's also very powerful if it's used for negative things. And if you can convince people of anything, you've got them under control. So, I think look, right now, this is the greatest wakeup call ever. Because ultimately, the biggest enemy of God is your own mind and the laziness of not thinking it out and getting together collectively. And what a great time to get together and say, Aubrey, you're my buddy, you got reach. Let's get a few other guys like me and you and Ben Greenfield or Joe Rogan or whoever, if they're not already bought and paid for and sit down at the table, and say how can we extend some love to the rest of the world and help them out of this impossibility wall, yet honor the people that want to stay invested in it? And so, here's our offering. And so what it does, is it brings the spiritual warriors together for a higher cause. And it brings the practitioners of evil together for their cause. And out of the two is guaranteed growth.

AUBREY: There would have been no "Fellowship of The Ring" if it wasn't for the rise of Sauron and Saruman, and the two towers. The dwarves and the Elves and the hobbits and the wizards would have all just gone along doing their own business. But that rise was what created the fellowship. And we're at the time of the fellowship now. And this is it, and fucking, amen.

PAUL: And as I said to God, "God, why do you keep trying to destroy yourself?" "I can't." Okay? So, the impossibility wall that we're facing, ultimately, is this thing called death. And that's the worst thing that can happen to any of you. But the fun part of is when you die, you actually find out the truth of yourself, and you realize you live eternally. And then what we thought was a whole lifetime in the scope of the universe is so fast that you can't even call it an instant, you can just call it a now. You get my point? Like our life of 100 years, let's say, compared to even the life of our son at 10 billion estimated years, which may be wrong, but it's still just a relative reality, the Earth's supposed to be what, four point something billion years old. Human life is like a firefly coming and going. So when you realize, oh my god, that was just the most amazing frigging charade ever. I had so much fun. I got the shit scared out of me. I got to believe that I was going to die of a virus. Or I got blown up flying my fighter jet. Like man, I got to kill a few bad guys too. At the end of the day, when you get deep enough into God, you see this is all absolutely fucking incredible. You think IMAX is good? How about just I?

AUBREY: Paul, I love you, brother.

PAUL: I love you too. I love your team too.

AUBREY: Yeah. Well, this has been beautiful, man. For everybody listening, your podcast is one of my favorite podcasts to listen to.

PAUL: Thank you.

AUBREY: And I don't listen to a lot of podcasts. I wish I had kind of the time and attention to do more of it.

PAUL: I don't either. But I do listen to yours.

AUBREY: Thank you, brother. Yeah, likewise.

PAUL: I thought yours with Tom Kelly was fantastic.

AUBREY: Yeah, thank you. Thank you. So, I highly recommend "Living 4D with Paul Chek". And, you've got some great books and bunch of YouTubes and things out there. But again, just thank you for being that light. Thank you for sharing that love and that truth, and it's just beautiful to know you and serve with you in these times. PAUL: Yeah, thank you. I can only say the same. I mean hey, takes two to dance and two to make love, and I'm just glad you invited me to swing around the rosie with you.

AUBREY: Let's go. Love everybody. Peace. Thanks for checking out this video. For more like it, please subscribe to my channel, and of course the Aubrey Marcus Podcast with new episodes every single week. And follow me on Instagram at @AubreyMarcus. Thank you so much.