PAUL: When I was channeling “Alchemy,” and I thought I was really going to fall apart during that, I really did, and I didn't. I thought that book should probably be printed with a warning on the cover. Like, if you do this work, you may have to encounter your darkest crap. But on the other side of that was something extraordinary, which is the life I'm living now. Which I would not have gotten, because I was so busy being afraid all the time, that I didn't know that I could have another life. And I didn't even know that I was that afraid because it was just what I knew. And it was my normal.AUBREY: For those of you who are unfamiliar with Paul Selig, who has been on my podcast many times, he's a channel who receives information from a collective he calls the guides. When the guides come through, he mumbles the words that the guides speak, and then speaks to them in his own voice, to share the information that they have. And really a lot of the information that's coming through, it just checks out. It feels true in every cell of my body, and really expresses a lot of the truth about the mystical nature of Christ consciousness and the way that we can actually see the world as the kingdom of heaven, as it really is. So he's one of the most profound spiritual teachers. He also has an ability to tap into people. And during this podcast, you'll see him tap in and do some readings on me. It's always a very personal and powerful experience when I get to both talk to Paul, my friend, and to receive the wisdom of the guides. So, I hope you guys enjoy this podcast with Paul Selig. Paul, my brother, it's good to see you. PAUL: It's good to see you too. AUBREY: Yeah. So, I'll just tell you and tell the audience this has been a tough week for me. My friend, Steven "tWitch" Boss, passed from an apparent suicide, and it's just, it's been really devastating to feel that. And I will say, it's, it's been interesting. I've felt like it's been oftentimes available to me to be able to at least feel and can connect with, even if it's just my imagination, the spirit, or the voice of someone who's passed. Recently, another brother, Parker, passed. And it's been very hard for me to make this connection in this instance. And I guess, I would just want to, since you may be more versed in this, is there potentially a confusion, or depending on how the passing was, because Parker's passing, although tragic and accidental, there was like long moments where he got to love his family and know what was coming and make the decision. And it was almost like his voice, just call it his voice, because I don't want to posit anything else, but his voice was really accessible to me, and it felt like him. And in this case, whatever happened with tWitch, it feels like it's not accessible. Is this like a phenomenon in which potentially the soul or the voice could be confused, or something else could be happening? PAUL: I mean, I'm not a spiritual medium. So, I don't talk to people that have passed. I usually get them when they still have a body, and I can sometimes get them right up until the moment where they cross, which is really something to experience. But when you were saying that I just kept hearing, it's not time yet. So, it's just not time yet. I mean, I understand, or I've been told that, when people cross there is a period of acclamation that has to happen. I've had people that have crossed who've shown up. And like, I had a woman once who I was angry at, and then I heard she died and went, "Oh, well, she died." And I didn't quite know what I felt about that. And, we'd had some bad stuff in the past. And as I was falling asleep that night, she showed up and she said, "I'm sorry, okay?" And I was surprised. And then she was off, and she was a 12-stepper. And I realized she was doing her ninth step. She probably had a long list of people to say I'm sorry to, because she didn't want to carry it with her. But I do understand that when there's this kind of a crossing, there's a period of acclamation, they need to be taken care of, and I hear that they're taken care of, on the other side. AUBREY: Well, thank you for indulging this very personal, personal issue. And thank you to the listeners for allowing me, as I talk to my beloved Uncle Paul here who's helped me not only with podcasts, but also in my personal life so many times. So, I'm really happy to be here. So, let's get into the latest, kind of the latest track that the guides are on. And now I know that “Resurrection,” it just kind of came out for most of us but probably the guides have moved on significantly even since “Resurrection,” because the guides just don't stop. So, let's bring people up through kind of the general overarching themes that they're starting to explore through “Resurrection,” even carrying in from “Kingdom” through “Resurrection.” And then maybe into a little bit where they're going now. And then I have a bunch of notes, and I'll start to dive in. And we'll see where this takes us. PAUL: Sure. Well, they've already dictated another book, it's called "The Book of Innocence". So, that was finished in September. So, the teaching really is progressing. They're teaching manifestation. But I don't think that they're teaching it in a way that is what people expect. I mean, they really talk about how our whole reality is something that we're in vibrational accord with. Everything we see, we're in co-resonance with. This is the reality that we're supporting, we're co-creating. And they've been teaching the upper room for a while, which they say is the level of consciousness that's above what they call the common field. It's the next octave up in terms of the music of tonality and consciousness. And what they're teaching in “Resurrection” really, is the realization in form of what they call the monad, or the true self, and what that entails. I mean, it's kind of a radical teaching, but I'll say, where they're going now, which surprised me is the idea that, so much of the difficulty that we have individually and collectively here, is that all of our memory is borne in a field of separation. Like every memory I have was induced with the belief that I'm separate from source, and separate from you, and separate from everything, because that's how we've been operating. AUBREY: Well, and also not only separate from source, which is another way of saying it, but separate from the darkness, right? Like I think this is another key point. Like one of the first things that I have pulled out of this from “Resurrection,” no aspect of you, even that which you think is darkest is outside of the love of God. And this reunification of the splinters, or the parasitic energies must not be seen as an exorcism. But as an act of reclamation. So, I think, the reason I wanted to bring that up, because of course, and you cover this so many times. People have this idea of God, this angelic, all the good, only that. And then there's this other part. So even if they're connecting, and feel themselves connected to source, but they're ascribing only the good parts to source, then they're disconnected and splintered from all of their inner darkness. PAUL: Yeah, I mean, the guides say again and again, you can't be the light, and hold another in darkness, or hold yourself in darkness either. And that includes the aspects of self that we wish to ignore. They've said for years, if you've got a body buried in the basement, it's going to stink up the whole house eventually. So, the idea is exhumation, or reclamation. You've got to bring the lights to these parts of the self. So, there's nothing in this teaching, I think, that could be seen as sort of bypassing. You do need to encounter these things. But you don't have to hang out there. And I think what we get to do is stop self-identifying with these aspects of ourselves that we're suppressing or denying or fearing. So, when these things are brought to the light, the whole body is full of light, the whole being is full of light. And I think that's the gift of this stuff. I mean, I'm experiencing it now, and I'm a little stunned by it. AUBREY: Yeah, me too. PAUL: It's not what I thought. And it's tremendously exciting and deeply moving. And I'm kind of going, who would have thought. I've been hearing these guides for years now. But I'm truly beginning to understand experientially the teaching, which is really the teaching of presence and being. More so than anything else. And it's knowing the self in this larger presence, which is source. And I agree with what you said. They've said in the most recent book, that even our idea of God or source has still been sort of rendered through this lens of separation and is consequently tainted with fear. And all that stuff has to be reclaimed too. You can't continue to perpetuate that and not have that experience. AUBREY: Yeah, I think, so for me psychedelic medicines has been a deep part of my journey for 23 years, and I've had many encounters with the darkness of every variety; demonic, disgusting, whatever, the trickster energy. All of these energies I've encountered is elsewhere, and typically loving them has been the best way. But still, even if I've loved them, like I remember I encountered the world crusher demon during an Ayahuasca ceremony. And he was completely dominating every aspect of my being, tricking me everywhere I went, this whole long story. Finally, the resolution was I floated up to his head, kissed him on the forehead, and his eyes turned into heart emojis. And the resolution was love. However, so I learned that lesson, I've learned that lesson for a while. Love. But I still was loving something outside of myself. And then the recent challenge has been to see myself as the world crusher, as the disgusting demon, as the torturer, as the sadist, see that as some aspect within the self and still love that. And that's the next level is, to not only love it out... "Oh, yeah, I love you. But just stay over there, please." I love you, as long as you're over there, and you're not me. But then when you start to bring that in, and say, I am all of source, connected to all of source, the monad is source itself. And when you start to see that and feel that, that's where it gets really hard. Because the instinct is to reject it when you actually bring it home. PAUL: Yeah. Well, I mean, my own experience with stuff, it's not been, as you say it. But I think it's probably comparable, just experientially in the depth a bit, in the nastiness of some of it. Because it was "The Book of Alchemy" which I was channeling on the road when I was basically falling apart. And each time they would deliver a lecture, I would think I don't believe this, I don't know if this is going to make any sense at all to anybody. And when the lectures were all transcribed and put into the book that they intended, it made perfect sense. But it was very much about that passage of sort of encountering these parts of ourselves that we would prefer not to look at, not to have to see. I don't know that I'm where you're at yet, in terms of loving them. I move towards accepting them and not sort of lashing myself to them in my fear, which is what we do. Early, it was in an old book, "Book of Mastery" they said, imagine you're going up a mountain and there's a cave in the mountain, and the one person you never want to see again as long as you live is in that cave. And you get to walk them out. And they said, you were the one that put them in darkness. That's why you get to walk them out. Who you put in darkness calls you to the darkness. What you call in darkness, including those parts of ourselves calls us to that darkness. But that becomes the opportunity for reclamation. So, bringing it to the light is liberation for that aspect of self. And for me, there are people that I still don't want to bump into on the street. But I'm not tied to them anymore in the way that I was. I'm not carrying that weight as I used to. AUBREY: Yeah, no, I'm with you. And I don't want to make it sound like it's easy for me to get to this place of love. It's very, very difficult. And oftentimes, acceptance is just enough, not flinching in disgust. Because I think there's something very visceral about the disgust impulse which will come up when you encounter darkness. And actually, it has a place in our world. And so, the paradox of the multidimensionality is, on one level, you might be disgusted, but as yourself, the higher self in the upper room, it's still seeing it in a different way, seeing it in a way that you can love it, and still holding that paradox of some of your affirmations. You are as I am. I cannot perceive you as outside myself because I am all things, right? These are the words that the guides offer. So, getting to that though, you have to go all the way through the disgust portal. And that portal is, it's, I mean, it's awful, in many ways to experience, is going through the disgust portal. It precedes the judgment in an interesting way. Like you have the disgust and then it actually feeds this judgment. So you have to get beyond the disgust of the thing, because you even say, you have to be able to find God in the feces as you find God in the sunset. But feces will give you a disgust impulse, which will make it hard to find God in there. PAUL: I mean, I think that some of that is because we've been taught what to be disgusted by. There's this collective agreement and collective morality and collective assumption about what is good and what is not good. And I think when I understand what the guides are trying to teach, it's that the meaning that anything has been endowed with sort of becomes the thing. It becomes how we experience the thing, or the situation, or the person. And so, we're always then operating with a sort of collective lens or frame about how things are, which we move into co-resonance with. When the guides teach this claim, behold, I make all things new, which is how the divine self, they say, or the monad perceives, and what it does to manifest reality, how it lips what it counters, they're actually inviting us to move beyond that. And I think the challenge is, some people think that means you're making it prettier, you're spraying perfume on the feces. And that's not what it's about. It's about seeing it as of source, without necessarily endowing it with the quality or the meaning that it's accrued over time. AUBREY: Yeah, and then I think this is where the paradox lands, though. There's a reason we have a disgust impulse with feces because we're not supposed to eat it. We're not supposed to eat it. And actually, if we do eat it, it does a lot of nasty things to our gut and our biology. So, some of this is actually hardwired into the body, and consciousness itself. And I think this is also where some of the challenge becomes of maintaining your place in the upper room is there's things that are hardwired into the body, the soma. And then, so, to carry both is required, and it's the necessity to be able to hold paradox in a way. PAUL: And some of it's, I think, also the difference between discernment and fear. There's nothing wrong with the feces, they just are. It's when we start becoming frightened of something, sometimes I... When the guides talk about this, they talked about prudence being necessary. Prudence is useful. If I live on Maui now, and if there's a sign that says, "No swimming. Sharks." Probably best not to get in the water. I don't want to find out the hard way. But it's the same kind of thing. So I agree with you. AUBREY: Yeah. Yeah. So, I have a question, if the guides are available, and want to answer this. What I've experienced in my own connection, in my own contact, is that there's a force that I call the opponent, or the anti-me. And it's a force that actually is, for my benefit, actually created by me, by source, and actually works as kind of the competition to refine and allow me to evolve. And so, I've seen this force, and I've felt this force. However, this force plays the game so ruthlessly, that it's... And I would want it to actually from a higher purview, so I've begun to appreciate it. But I would love to just hear if the guides had any perspective about the nature of this antithetical force that I do believe is for our own good in the end, but it comes in as this inner resistance, this inner saboteur, and underminer. PAUL: I'm going to tune into you for this if I can because it’s specific to you. I don't know that it's a universal experience and may well be. I'm going to see when I get you. AUBREY: Alright, great. PAUL: It's interesting, when I tune into you, the first part of you that comes through says, I don't want to be the one who's wrong. And then you become very observant, very observant about how things are calibrated in terms of their relationship to you. They're saying this is not an aspect of you, this is an idea that you carry that is indeed universal. They're saying it's not antithetical to your growth. It's in support of your growth. But it is the aspect of you that calibrates. They're saying the efficiency of change, it works I hear with the soul, of the soul, but it's not the soul. So, in some ways, I've never heard this before. There's like a mechanism that you utilize for progression. So, this is the image. Imagine you're running on a track. And on the sides of the track, there are these little razor blades sticking out. And you bump into them, and you're caught, and it moves you back into the forward motion, and actually doesn't allow you to impale yourself on them because you'll be repelled by them. So, I hear it's useful, but they're also saying there are other ways to learn. I hear, while you may use this for a while, I hear it will bear witness to pain. Pain is one teacher and not the only one. They're also saying if you wish a different teacher, ask for one. Come, they will come. AUBREY: Very well said, very well said. Yeah, I think I have in my own constitution, I love competition. I've become a good basketball player because I've competed against good basketball players. I've become a good kendo practitioner because I've competed against good kendo practitioners, right? This idea of going to the dojo. So I think it is something that actually, if I zoom out of the immediate conflict and zoom out, I think in some ways I do want this, and I do like this. And then also I want to be able to transcend it as well, and find the teacher of love, like the teacher of the risen Christ, who sees no opposition, because he knows there is no opposition, because he knows all is self. And there's like a transcendent state of learning. I guess, if I had my wish, it would be to experience both, but have the freedom to actually know when I can learn from the energy of the risen Christ. PAUL: They say it's useful until you say it's not. That's really the gist of it. And the risen Christ, the idea of there being an aspect of ourselves, which they call the true self, or the monad, or the Christ within or with... It's not a religious thing. It's the universal principle, that Christ is a principle that seeks resurrection through us. And that's the essence of the entirety of their teaching, that it can and will be done. It has been done, it will be done. And as in through each of us, when they say this again and again, you can’t be this without claiming everybody else within it too. It's the big challenge of the teaching. You can't be the light and hold another in darkness. AUBREY: It's also one of the slipperiest traps that I've found. Well, there's two slippery traps when it comes to Jesus Christ. And one trap is to place Jesus entirely outside of yourself and allow no participation in the Christ for yourself. And this is, Jesus is out there, he died, it's all of us, just to serve and be in obeisance to this dead being. That's God or whatever the classical fundamental religious beliefs are. And not to say that there isn't value in everybody's beliefs, everybody's on their path, whatever. But I think that path is not how I understand, it's not how the guides understand it. And then there's the other I think, challenge that I've seen in some of the spiritual medicine communities, it's the challenge of basic inflation, where people believe that they're not just the Christ participating in the Christ, but they're Jesus. They're the actual reincarnation of Jesus, and somehow, that Jesus is different than everybody else's Jesus. And so, I think there's both of those traps when you start using the word, Christ, whereas you and I can talk about it and understand each other perfectly well, and actually appreciate that metaphor. And actually, I can try to access and call the Christ energy, or even Jesus energy, if I'm in a journey. But I think those traps are dangerous kind of traps for people that could fall in. PAUL: They're huge traps. When people say, I'm hearing, I'm starting to hear my guides, they're telling me I'm here to change the world, and I'm the only one. Every time I hear I'm the only one, I go, "Uh-oh." Because it's appealing to the ego. And the teaching the guides bring through is not about the deification of the personality structure. I think flattery is one of the ways we get trapped in this course. So, I'm very aware of this. When I was doing a workshop... I’ll give you two stories. Quick ones. Early, I was doing a workshop when I first started doing them, and the guides corrected somebody who said, "I am the Christ." And the guide said, no. They said, "You don't become the Christ, the Christ becomes you," which is you become the expression of it. It's not about the great I am self that's going to manifest everything he or she wants and be the best at anything. I don't know that it works that way. I mean, they say it again and again. If you're this, so is everybody else. And the moment you think that you're the only one, you've cut yourself off. And that's spiritual pride. And it's one of the big pitfalls of sort of the New Age and has been since I was first coming into this stuff when I was in my mid 20s. And you'd hear this stuff. And I think it's probably a stage and for many people to go through, the need to be special, the need to be the one who's got it. And honestly, it doesn't work long term. You get stuck, and it's a rotten, rotten place to get stuck in. So, the other story I was going to tell you quickly was at a workshop. I might have been in Austin or Houston, but there was a guy in the front row who stood up, and the guides were working with this claim, I have come, I have come, I have come. Which is basically the announcement of the monad as it seeks realization. And this guy in the first row stood up and said, "I have come!" in this big booming voice, and he performed it. And I went, "Oh, that's interesting" because it was a new attunement. I didn't know what it was going to do. And then some older man in the back row raised his hand, he said, "My kids gave me your books. And I assume because they heard you, or the book where you wrote, my kids gave me your books. And now I'm here, and I'm confused about the church that I've been born into, but this is making sense to me." And the guides had him stand up and do the same attunement. And the energy that came off this guy was rolling off of him in waves. The whole room felt it, I felt it. That's when I knew the attunement worked. And it was coming from a place of humility, and it was the action of source operating through him, because that's what source does. The moment I think I'm the one doing this, I'm screwed. I understand that I have a skill set. But my job is to show up and allow. That's the extent of it. And in a lot of ways, I think that's all of our jobs, at this level. AUBREY: Yeah, and have the ultimate respect for the unique way that our instrument is shaped, imagining we're a flute, and we have holes a certain way, and varnish, and we're from a certain tree of our genetic lineage, and a certain mind, and a certain vocabulary, and the wind of source blows through the flute, and we have a little bit of movement we can do with our fingers. But the song is coming, and it's going to sound a little different through us than everybody else, but it's the same wind. PAUL: Absolutely right. AUBREY: Yeah. So, I have another question that came up from this. So, this, I've experienced that there's this place in which you can step into this kind of deep spiritual, kind of connection, the upper room, accessing the monad. And, allowing this wisdom to pour forth. And whether it's me or somebody else who can step into these moments, it both is received with gratitude in many cases, and also sometimes too much gratitude. And then you'll get put on a pedestal. And I've also seen that where people get into some kind of worshipping mode, which is very scary, actually. And then there's the other side of that, which is attack. Attack comes. Like, you shine the light and attack comes. And I think you mentioned in “Resurrection,” that there was many people who've come to do the most good, they've been killed, right? Like, this is a history that we kind of remember in our lineage. Like you shine your light fully, the spears and the arrows are going to come. And, so, I've been in this feeling. And it's not just for me, it's not a personal thing, it's also been a philosophical thing. So, don't want everybody to think I'm saying I'm being so light, I'm being attacked. It's just kind of a phenomenon that I'm noticing is that the light is getting attacked. And if you allow it to put you into like a war mentality, then everything contracts. The light doesn't shine as much. And it feels like the minute you go into war mentality, the attackers have won. That's the trick. If they get you to fight, they've actually dimmed your light, because you're now armored up like a turtle. And you're not actually shining through the fullness of your heart. However, there is, and the guides also talk about this. There is a right to self-defense and protection at the same time. So, how do you strike the balance between allowing yourself to shine with full heart forward, and protect yourself when being attacked without corrupting your mentality? It's like, that's the paradox of how you show up and call it a Rainbow Warrior or call it whatever you want to do. Where you're able to hold both; protect yourself, protect your people, and be in the fullness of your light. PAUL: I don't know. I have theories maybe, and I have my own experiences with this. And unfortunately, unpleasant ones. AUBREY: Sure. PAUL: But what I believe I think at this point is, is you move to a level of resonance. I think the higher you go, the less need for the defense you have. And if I'm not there yet, I need the old defenses. I'm going to need what I require. I mean, I've done everything a human being could do, I think, in my life to dim my light or protect myself. Whether it be alcohol, smoking, obesity, all of these things I've done. They've been ways of sort of moving people away. And as I move through these things, as they stop becoming necessary, it really is a reflection of how much less fear I seem to be holding in my life. And this old teaching, I think, of turning the other cheek, I think that's what this is about. I don't think you can get hit. And, people are throwing rocks, I suppose the real idea is to rise above it. And that means in consciousness. The first time I ever did an interview for my work, after the very first book on some cable network in New York, I was very heavy. And the guy who did the interview with me put it in like three-minute clips up on YouTube with these banner headlines, Paul Selig Channeling on ET Realities, and his big man rocking back and forth. I looked nuts in this thing. Nobody knew who I was. And I went, "Oh, crap." And the moment that thing aired, I felt the backlash energetically. I was being covered in crap. And I went to bed, and I said to the guides, "If you want me to do this work, why are you letting this happen?" And their response was, "Well, as long as you care what people think about you, this is going to be an issue." So it's my problem, still. And it's not comfortable. What I've learned in some ways is to care less. That doesn't mean I don't like it. And I don't know. I mean, this whole idea of attack, I think when I was channeling “Alchemy,” and I thought I was really going to fall apart during that. I really did, and I didn't. I thought that book should probably be printed with a warning on the cover. Like, if you do this work, you may have to encounter your darkest crap. But on the other side of that was something extraordinary, which is the life I'm living now. Which I would not have gotten because I was so busy being afraid all the time, that I didn't know that I could have another life. And I didn't even know that I was that afraid because it was just what I knew, and it was my normal. So, is there a for, I'm going to ask because it's a tricky question. I don't want to almost go there. But I'm going to ask, is there something that's trying to extinguish the light? I get yes, but it's all of you doing it. You're in a collective fear of who and what you truly are. So you try to stamp out the flame before it ignites your life. You can do this if you wish, it will just take more time. Finally, everybody is the light, and is recollecting the light and reclaiming. They're saying, that is a passage humanity undergoes. And it is a process as well but is not necessarily graceful. That you think it should be graceful, is your challenge. It is not graceful. Exhumation is rarely pleasant. You have to look at what you claim, how you've treated yourself and others, and understand those things, as ways you have known yourself, but not who you truly are. When you know who you truly are, this is dismantled, non-present and not active in the energetic field. You are not trying or seeking something, your being and your knowing. They're saying, and you're acting from your knowing, period, and they're saying period. AUBREY: Is there ever a time to fight, to bring the energy to fight? PAUL: I hear yes, yes, yes. I mean, the image they're showing me is actually somebody in a cave trying to keep out the floodwater. And I think there is nothing wrong with that level of protection, whether it's I suppose, a person or a flood. I'm assuming this is right. Let me ask. They're saying yes and no. When you understand source or can realize source at the level we teach, there is nothing to protect as you would have it. But because the collective doesn't know this and the collective does the best it can with the methodology it has used which is action, and defense. When you understand you're one with your brother or sister, there is no need to fight and no need to protect. But because you don't know this, you pick up sticks and throw them, period. And they're saying, period. AUBREY: This teaching seems to be encouraging an attitude of non-attachment then to the body, which they talk about is like, this is a primary attachment. In order to step into that, the level that they're requesting, it feels like you have to have almost a non-attachment to the body, a Kwang dukkha level of, if this is pain, if this is fire, if this is sticks, if this is, then I am not afraid, because I know I am not my body. But that just seems very, very, very difficult to get there with a body. PAUL: Yeah, I mean, I'm not there. This isn't my story, but I live now on Maui. And Ram Dass's satsang is nearby. And this has become my community. My friends there cared for this man in the last years of his life. And when they speak about his growth, and I don't know what he said about his growth, because I haven't read enough, they talked about how he really came fully into the teachings that he'd been delivering once the strokes happened, and that was a big, big shift. So, let me go to the question about the body. The idea of the body is the problem. They're saying, you have a body, you have to care for it. It's your responsibility. If there is somebody else's body that needs care, you support that person in their care. You have a body for a reason, it is to be cared for and experienced through. Now, the idea of the body as the only reality you know is part of the problem here. You exist in multiple realities with and without form. To fear the body or the death of the body, while instinctual, is its own trap. Eventually, you will all die. And know the liberation that comes when the body is released. You will understand the game or the choice you made to incarnate in form or in the lessons that form provides, but then you know you are not in your body. To protect the body isn't only instinctual, but a way of caring for the self. If there is someone trying to kill your body, best to protect yourself from the killing. If you come to a place in your life where there is no need for this kind of attack or this experience has been learned, you will not incur that act, nor will you need to fight, period. And they're saying period. AUBREY: Of course, that resonates. And I think one of the challenges is that every story, every great epic movie, it's all the same story. And I just watched "Avatar" again. And it's, family wants peace. Great warrior just wants peace. But then the enemy comes close and the great warrior, out of love for his family and love for his people, reluctantly picks up the weapons that they wished to lay down. And we have this story over and over again. I can feel the entrainment of these types of stories, which is basically, you can try for peace, but the enemy will come, and you will have to fight. So, best to vanquish your enemy. It's this whole mindset. It's basically saying, if you run from violence, violence will find you. So, you might as well step into this, step into your violence and step into your warrior. And in some ways, it's just continuing to entrain this idea that there's no escape from the fight. You might as well just go into it. And that seems like a cultural idea that while sometimes true, is also entraining a set of behaviors that is not ultimately going to get us where we need to go. PAUL: I agree. And I also suspect that what we're most frightened of tends to find us in one way or another, and that can be seen as the attacker. Even if it's an internal issue that is being outpictured in one's life. And then again, I think these things become opportunities to encounter or reclaim those aspects of ourselves that have been under attack or put in fear. I don't know, and maybe the best metaphor that we've had has been battle and war. But I think that there are other ways to understand that kind of passage. I think there are people that have probably undergone comparable journeys that have never left their house or even their armchair and still had to encounter them because I think that's part of the condition. When I taught colleges for many, many years, we'd talk about Aristotle and the idea of something broaching the status quo. You have the peace in the land, something interrupts the peace in the land, and then you've got to restore it. And the action is usually towards restoration. I think we're at a place now, culturally, where we don't get to restore the peace in the land that we knew. I think there's something else that seeks to be born now that isn't a replication of the old. And that's the challenge and we want to do that. When people sometimes say I am a spiritual warrior, I almost go, that's like an oxymoron almost to me. What does that really mean? Does it mean you're looking for the... The idea that you're going to vanquish darkness by stepping on it, I don't know that it works that way. I think you vanquish darkness by being the light, by claiming the light where it's been denied. The guides have said again and again and again that the only real challenge humanity faces is what they call the denial of the divine. And what that means is what we put in darkness, who we put in darkness. Where we've decided that god or source, or whatever you want to call it, cannot be. Because when we do that, we amplify that darkness, we go into alignment with it, and then we end up creating with it, and really, exacerbating it or extending it. This whole idea that it doesn't have to be a battle is a kind of a different paradigm. And I don't know that it has to, but I think that there are times when it is. There are times when it is. AUBREY: It would require forgiveness, a deep level of forgiveness, a Christ-like level of forgiveness for those who have actually transgressed the ethics and morals that are actually, I believe, in some ways, first principles and values about the violation of other sovereignty, the infliction of pain for your pleasure. And it would require a forgiveness of that, but in that forgiveness could be a transcendence that would even transcend beyond this punishment model. Again, it's just one of those things. It feels so hard. It feels so far from where we are collectively. It's not that I can't see it, but it's difficult to imagine a murderer, or a child rapist, or something like that. And I can imagine this level of forgiveness and seeing all things. And also, then still can't imagine a situation where that collectively could actually transpire, and he or she could be transformed by how we saw them in that. But I can see it. It just feels like a distant future in some ways. PAUL: I don't know that it has to be. I think we're accountable to all of our acts. I think that's a given. If you break it, you bought it. If you hurt it, you've incurred challenge, or the debt you need to pay for that. In "Resurrection," the guides are talking more and more about this idea of redemption and what that really means. If I decide that someone cannot be redeemed, they're irredeemable, I basically decided that source cannot express where that person is. And they say, when you deny the divine in another, you deny the divine in yourself, and that is forgiveness. To be able to say, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those. And by the way, I was raised an atheist. And even though I've got that painting behind me, I've got Hanuman on my desk right in front of me in the bushes over there. There's a lot of folks around. But I understand this. And when the guides teach forgiveness, sometimes they start off easy and they say, you have to forgive this person for not being who you want or wanted them to be. Because that's the terrible betrayal, that somebody is doing what we think they shouldn't do or can't, and in fact, they've done it. But in my old 12 step days way back when, they used to say to me before I knew any of this stuff, people would say, you got to look for the good or the god in everyone. And it's easy to look for the good or the god in somebody that you agree with or like. It's much more challenging and there's much, much more growth attached to being able to do that with the one that you never want to see again. AUBREY: Is there a sense from the guides that things are getting... because it appears that things are getting more polarized. We’re pulling apart from each other in many ways. And that this is part of a necessary step to exaggerate things to the point where the folly is revealed. And then once the folly is revealed, there can be a coming together. PAUL: They're saying yes, but I think there may be more to it. Yes. They're saying yes, yes, yes. They're saying it's a choice you are making to disable one another. When you see the futility of it, perhaps you will change your mind. The ideology we teach is also present in every choice you make. Because there is an aspect of all of you, agree with this or not, that in fact knows who he or she is and realizes the foolishness of one's actions in contrary nature to one's divinity. You are all awakening to your true natures. It is not an easy awakening because those of you who wish to remain a slave or frightened of what would happen if they woke up will do their best to stay where they are. This is not wrong minded as much as an agreement to fear. Fear would invite you to stay where you are in your pain, deny the divine in another and yourself as well. Because if you forget who you are, you are not accountable to the promise, the great promise of realization. To realize is to know. And to know who you are in truth is in fact to know who all are. That's that. Can I just ask quickly about the times we're in as it relates to that? AUBREY: Yeah, of course. PAUL: The idea of who you are is actually being reflected in opposition because you mandate and support it. When you stop mandating it and supporting it within yourself, you will stop doing it to your brothers. Period, period, period. What I've heard for a while is that this is just change, big, big, big change, and productive, just not comfortable. AUBREY: The guides referred to something in "Resurrection," where they said they're giving teachings at higher levels now than they used to back in the beginning because the students, and presumably, they're speaking to students who have raised their collective awareness of the teachings themself. So, they're able to give higher teachings. Maybe the guides are learning in some way. But it seems like they know what they know in a big way. But they're escalating people in their teaching. It comes to a curious question about strategy. Because in some ways, you could call that strategy where they're saying, we're giving you what you're able to learn when you're able to learn it. We're telling you the truth at the level that you can accept the truth. And they're being strategic in that kind of way. And there's that question about truth. Some truths would be very inflammatory if you went out and said them. So, I'm always wondering, do you just say the truth, just say the truth as it is plainly? Or how much space is there for the strategy to make the truth a little gentler, try to escalate people a bit more? And it's this kind of interesting back and forth battle within my own, not necessarily battle, but a decision within my own mind. Full truth or back off it a little bit to maybe get more people along the way. And it seems like the guides are doing that in in some small way, at least as well. PAUL: I've never thought about that, but I have an opinion about a little of it. The very first book was dictated through me in 2009, published in 2010. And there's now 11. 10 are in print. I think the 11th will be out soon. And I know that there's another after that. And after that, I don't know. But the very first book, "I Am The Word," I think holds the DNA of all of their teachings. I think they've been unpacking it since then at the level that we can hold it. Now this isn't about intellectual holding, it's not about the information. The information is challenging, certainly, and it's sort of mind-blowing in a lot of ways for me still, because I still want to interrupt it, and question, and contest a fair amount of what they say. But the teachings are really energetic transmissions that work with the readers. And it's always been that way. And the attunements escalate in terms of what we can manage and hold. It's a little bit along the lines, in my experience, that you don't want to bring somebody into too bright a room too quickly or they're going to run from the light, or they're going to go blind, or they're going to go crazy. You want to bring them at the level that they can move into vibrational accord with the teaching. And the idea of a truth, truth is truth. And the guides have said many times what is true is always true. Truth is not subjective. We live in a world now where people say my truth is, and I'll say my truth is once in a while, which is basically saying, my belief, my experience, my understanding. But I think what is true is always true. I could say I'm in a male body now. But is that always true? I don't think so. I think I probably will be in some other kind of body at some other point because I believe that we progress. It's always true in this lifetime that this is what I'm in, at this moment at least, unless I change that somehow. I don't think it's always true. The challenge with truth telling is that it's often borne, I think, from a subjective sense of right and wrong, or self-righteousness. And the guides have said many, many, many times, and I don't like this teaching, but it's true, self-righteousness is always the small self. And the small self is the personality structure. That's all. It's not a bad thing. We all have it. But whenever I'm up on my high horse, wanting to say this is the way it is, I may be accurate. But I'm usually sort of operating from a sense of needing to make others wrong. And if I need to be right at the cost of somebody else being wrong, I think I may have a bit more of a challenge. I'm going to ask about telling the truth and how to say it because you've asked, if that's okay. AUBREY: Yeah, please. PAUL: They're saying you can say what you wish. Know your intent behind what you say. If you're a seeking to illumine, or to support, to heal, or to teach, say what you wish. If you're seeking to deny, to destruct, or to battle, you might want to think again. There may be a higher way to express. AUBREY: That's a really, very clear distinction. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you, guides, for that. One of the things they talk about too, is divine flow and this idea of basically listening. There's some passages about divine flow, but then they also talk about the heart. And they say, your heart will not lie to you because the divine as you at the level of the heart can translate any experience to its implicit truth. So, they're giving a teaching that when you're listening to the heart, it's akin to like a divine flow where you're guided by wisdom that's coming through. This is one of the places where often I feel like I can hear it, but also where there's certain times where I have difficulty distinguishing between the voice of my heart and the trickster voice in my own mind, or maybe the small self's voice impersonating the heart. Do you or they have any guidance for how to distinguish between the voice of the heart and... sometimes it's clear, the voice of the heart, and the voice of the mind, or small self, or the trickster, whatever you want to call it. And what are some practical ways that if you find yourself a little bit lost in a fog, where things aren't so clear, because emotions may be strong, and it's hard to hear that clear strident sound of the heart, what are some practical ways to get back to listening? PAUL: I don't know if we've done this before, but the guides said the true self knows, the small self thinks. And there's nothing wrong with thinking. I don't know how to bake a pie. I'mma have to look at the directions to bake a pie. I don't know yet. But they say when you're in your knowing, and they say to know something is to realize it. And they say it's the divine within you that knows through you, that aspect of you that is in its knowing is the true self. When you're actually in your knowing or you're listening to your heart, there is never a question. There's no question. There's nothing to contest. It's really that simple. If I were to say, go to a time in your life, this is what they do in classes. Go to a time in your life when you knew something. I knew I was in love. I knew this was the right job. I knew the relationship was over. When you go to that, remember what it feels like in the body. Now go to what you think. I think I know what I'm having for dinner tomorrow night. I think I know how long I'm going to live. I think I know the results of the next election. And see the difference because there's always a question attached. I think when we want to convince ourselves of something, that's when it gets challenging. I wonder sometimes if I truly moved into my knowing, if I really operated from there as a human being, would I even need to channel? I don't think so. Because true knowing is clear cognizance. And that's the gift of knowing. It's an amazing thing, but that's what the guides are teaching us. AUBREY: What's the passage though? What's the passage between when things... Because I know that feeling and I love that feeling. I love being there. And actually, for an extended period of time at Burning Man festival, I was able to actually, for the longest stretch I've ever been able to not toggle down, from my own perception, not toggle down into my small self. For like six days, I was just clear. When I had the bicycle, I knew exactly which direction to go. I knew what thing I could say that would bring the most laughter. Energy was just flowing, it was a beautiful experience. And so, things were very clear in that. And all gratitude to Burning Man, and the collective, and the freedoms, and the medicines, and all the things that contributed to that. Things were very clear. I know that sense of clarity. And then I also know when I can't feel the truth anymore in my body and things are confusing. And I think I hear a voice and then I hear another voice. What do you do in those situations? A decision has to be made. You don't feel it in your body? What do we do at that point? And my own method is just keep trying to listen and eventually just choose something. And I'm wondering if you or the guides have any insight. How do we get back to that feeling like I had at Burning Man where I knew when things are confusing? PAUL: I'm going to go to you first and see what happened at Burning Man, because that might be helpful and then we'll see about returning to it. When I go to you at Burning Man, you say, I was not trying, I was being. And then you go, huh? I was just being and then it was easy. There's nothing to prove. Let me go to what restores this. The idea of who you are is what's at stake here. When the small self or your personality structure has an idea of what should be, it who will seek to impose it and surpass knowing to get what its needs are. When you operate from knowing, you have to be willing to surrender the idea of what you should have because what will be granted to you will be perfect. How do you get back there? By trust and allowance. You can't make yourself know, but you can align to the aspect of you that knows and that aspect of you is always present. It will not give you what you want when you want it. That is the small self demanding to know, but it is available and if you align to it, you will be able to ride the story until the answer becomes clear. Period. They're saying period. AUBREY: Fuck. That's it. In those moments, it's not that I can't figure it out. It's that I've forgotten who I am and who I be really. And so, actually, the answer, the way forward is to restore. Because at Burning Man, I didn't doubt who I was. I knew it. I was being me the whole time. That's what made it easy. I knew. The divine and me working together with my unique flute, and the wind working together. We just knew what song to play and where to go. Then it becomes a question of more just restoring my gnosis of who I am, which actually, is one of your very first and most classic affirmations. I know who I am, I know what I am, I know how I serve in truth. And I am here, I am here, I am here. It seems like in those moments, really going through these affirmations of a reminder of who I really am seems like a great strategy to go to. That seems like it makes a lot of sense. And then I am curious. I have names which are just basically ideas of, if I was to say I know who I am, I know what I am, I know how I serve, I am here. Well, what's your name? And I've made names. I made a name for that. And so, I'm curious if that can be productive Of course, it seems productive to me to use that. PAUL: I hear it's useful, but I'm hearing almost like they're weighing it, like oh, that's interesting. So, let me go. It's useful only at the level that you can utilize. And if you decide that your name is Percy and Percy deserves all good things, you have to be clear that what Percy thinks is best might not be what's best. You're creating an aspect of self, that is while deservable, expects to get what he expects. The claim I know who I am is the claim of the monad, or the divine self. The essence or truth of who you are, it is actually nameless. It is eternal. Was never born, will never die. It is the creator as you, come through you, seeking its expression as and by you. To say I know who I am as the unknown, or as the perfect being would be useful, perhaps, as long as you don't give it qualities that are being endowed at the level and structure of personality. That is how you create a false God. My God says this, her God says that. Finally, we would have to say while individuated experience of source will vary greatly, there is one source being called many things and known by many false names. The one true source, you can call it I am, if you wish, or god if you prefer, is always present, regardless of what it's called. If your intent is to know God through the claim, name it as you wish. AUBREY: That all makes sense. And I guess what it feels like to me is that I'm offering a name to the flute and not trying to name the wind. Allowing the wind to be nameless but giving the flute a name that's different from my usual name, which is really, frankly, associated with a lot of toggling up and down. The Aubrey a lot. And this name is like, no. This is my flute when the wind is blowing through it. PAUL: I hear useful, useful, useful. Useful. They call it the monad. That's a name too. AUBREY: This journey is... I'm sure you get this question a lot and I think the answer is simply to embody it. But there's a lot of people who are listening, a lot of people who come to our Fit For Service events and they have a spouse or a partner. And I'm sure you get this a bunch. I really want my husband to come, or I really want my wife to come and experience this. Is there anything else that we can do besides just embody the teachings to the best of our ability? PAUL: I hear in relationship to the partners. The guides just said, know who they are in truth beyond your prescription for them. Very often, when somebody says, I'm on this great spiritual path and my partner doesn't agree with this, while there's growth, there's also at times, somebody who's in a spiritual process who's presupposing what's right for somebody else, or best for somebody else. And they can't know that. I don't know that. My mother was basically, I didn't know this until the last couple of years ago. On her 18th birthday, she was assaulted by her minister who she'd been sent to live with after her relatives died. I didn't know that. My mother can't read the books. She just can't go there. She wishes she could, and she says she can't, it's too hard for her. And I can respect that. But I also know that that's not how I... I'm not going to give her this. I can love her as she is, which has its own challenge, truthfully, some days. AUBREY: And that is the embodiment of the teaching really, actually. Is to just love them exactly as they are, and seeing them, seeing them as they actually are. Then that actually transforms them and actually opens the door for the transformation. That's a good reminder from older books that is just now coming back to me, for sure. I just glanced down at my notes. It's a little non-sequitur from where we were. But there's this really provocative idea. This is what you say here and I'm just going to read it so we can get into it. And I think I cut a few pieces out of the middle so, it's not sequential. The template of the old reality with its destinations of good and evil, heaven and hell are problematic now. The idea of hell that you've been given, the absence of God, a place of fire and brimstone, a place of torture is also a metaphor. You understand that fire burns away the old and the burning of the dross, the release of the old is part of the practice we claim in our teachings. There is not a geographical location for hell, hell becomes an idea of the absence of god. The really provocative aspect of that, of course, there's several. But the one that I really appreciated and something that I actually contemplated as well because of this show that I watched that had a depiction of hell. I think it was some show about a sandman. Do you remember what that show was, Derrick. It's called "Sandman?" But anyways, during watching that show, I saw they had different metaphors of hell. But this idea that this is actually the fire, it's a fire of alchemy that you go through. And that which burns is not yourself, is not your true self. And so, you move through almost like the path to recognizing your divinity is a path that takes you through hell, the burning away of all of these aspects of identity, all of the dross, as the guides say, to allow yourself to emerge. It's also the myth of the phoenix which comes in fire. And the more you're attached to the identity structures that burn, and the small self that burns, and these features that burn, the more painful hell is and the more torture there becomes. But it's actually a crossing and it's actually like an alchemical crossing. And this is the metaphor that we all missed in the interpretations. PAUL: Yeah, I agree. I think that's what they're saying. I don't know that there's anything to add to it. I think you explained it. I think some of what I understand is that we can go through some of this stuff while we're in form, we just have to be willing to, and how we deal with it later. AUBREY: In the show "Sandman," everybody was carrying their own fire. And I thought that was also a provocative telling of the myth. There was no fire other than the fire they were carrying, which was the idea that that thing needed to burn and be painful in that way. And actually, if they could set down their fire, they would no longer be in hell, in a way. They didn't say that explicitly. But that image of carrying your own fire into hell with you, and that's why you're there, is because of your own shame, and your own reproach, and your own denial and abnegation of self was your own hell that you're carrying with you. All of us are carrying a little bit of hell with us, and trying to step into the kingdom carrying hell in a backpack full of fire, you know? PAUL: Yeah. But at least we're trying to go to the kingdom. That's the good news. When you were speaking, the guides were piping into the background, and their commentary was what you came to learn. We come to learn these things. I'm in this really interesting place right now, where I look at my life, five years ago even, and I don't recognize myself in a lot of ways. And I don't realize how I lived when I look back. And it was fine, but it's not now. And it's very interesting. It's a very interesting phenomena or experience of being. I don't seem to be operating with the same filters that used to tell me who I was, or how I should be, or what was wrong. And I'm not saying I'm enlightened, because I'm not, but I'm learning that it doesn't have to be what I thought it was. And god knows, I probably carried a whole bunch of fire in my backpack because it wasn't pleasant, much of it. But really useful, I have to say. When the guides say everything that we encounter, we have an opportunity to learn through, I think that that's very true. You don't get to be a victim and a master at the same time, they said. That's really how we choose to understand ourselves and our experience. AUBREY: It seems like the celebration of victimhood has become stronger in the cultural zeitgeist in a certain way. It's like it's a competition. My podcast guest recently, Mark Gober called it the victim Olympics, where we're all competing to be the most victim. And I think that comes from a fear of judgment, ultimately, because in the victim, we can give up our power and claim that we're powerless. And so, we have no responsibility. And if we have no responsibility, we can't fuck it up. Is that the connection that you or the guides see? Is this reason that we want to be the victim because we're afraid of this idea of judgment and this idea of responsibility? PAUL: No, I hear you don't want to know how powerful you are. That's too frightening to know how powerful you are. It's a hard one for me. I was a bullied kid, I have a lot of experience with this, and I understand it up at a level. But I also, on a personal level, know what a trap it is for me and why I choose not to go there. I may visit there briefly, but I don't let it last. Let me ask about the cultural moment because I never have. I hear it's actually a way of self-identification. It's not useful, but necessary for you to move beyond it. So, in some ways it's a bit of a pendulum swing. And this will pass. You're actually realizing what autonomy is and how the will can be utilized in high ways. To understand high ways, you will have an encounter with the lower and learn from those things as well. AUBREY: It feels to me like there's periods in which the universe is really flowing with me, wind at my back. And then there's periods where there's wind in my face. And I don't know if this is me creating a story from actually circumstantial events that I link together and say, this is the season where I'm out of alignment with the universe or there's some... You could look at it from an astrological perspective, which I don't prefer that perspective. And people will say that Mars is in retrograde right now. But what is the sense from the guides or yourself about, are there seasons, where things externally are harder and seasons where things externally are easier?
PAUL: Yes. I get yes. In some ways, yes, but it depends on what you're aligned to and how the common field is working. The common field is what you utilize to know your own experience. You think it's just you, but you are actually participatory to a much larger energetic landscape. Now to lift to the upper room, it will support you in being beyond that fray, if you wish, but you cannot ignore it. It's not about denying it. When one has the experience of the wind blowing their sails, one is unobstructed. When you feel the wind in your face, you are being invited to release obstruction. This is true at the collective level, which is where you all stand now and the individual who is experiencing it as a solitary wind. Period, and they're saying period.AUBREY: Is there an image that I got, which was the idea of being on a ship. It's a sailboat that also has oars. And certain times, it feels like you can just put the sail up and the wind is going to move you and you can actually take your hands off the oars. And there's also times where the wind from the collective agreements, etc., are blowing towards the sail. So, it's actually best to pull the sail in and still continue like a salmon upstream. And it might just require a little bit more sweat and the oars. And just understand that sometimes you have to row and sometimes the wind is going to be with you. PAUL: Yeah. Chop wood, carry water. It's the basic stuff. You take care of the basic stuff when that's what's happening. And that's how I deal with it as best I can. I do what's in front of me. And then it changes. It always does. I don't know that it's ever the same or is ever supposed to be. AUBREY: If you and the guides wouldn't mind, if there's any way that you can tap into just me personally and trusting that lessons for me are also valuable lessons for the collective about any guidance for this place that I'm at in my path and what I'm currently experiencing. If they have any guidance or if I need to be more specific, I can. But just any general guidance for me at this point. PAUL: I'll just tune into you first as you and that's more psychic, and then the guides may come through. You're coming through saying, I don't know what I want anymore. And that's terrifying to me. And I'm supposed to be in charge. And what happens if I don't know? I hear everything makes sense once you agree that you don't know. Then true knowing can come. But when you're pretending to know or trying to figure it out, you're doing an exercise. When you say I don't know, nor do I know how to know, the knowing may be present. In some ways, the well of knowing which has been ignored by you in certain areas of your life is actually being filled for you to work with effectively. To trust yourself through these times is to trust the process you are engaging in. To doubt the true self, which you may do, if you wish, will only claim you in a temporary stasis because what you have already incurred by way of action and movement at this level will not be quieted in the long term. So, when you hit a bump in the road, as we say, these things are useful. They dislodge the baggage that has been accrued in the back seat. In your case, we suggest prayer is useful. And by prayer, we simply mean communion. Go to the heart and allow the heart to teach you and sing to you its own song. Its own song will never lie and create a plane of expression for you to carry yourself through lovely and kind. Period. And they're saying period. Do you have anything specific you want to know about? AUBREY: That really lands and resonates deeply. Let me see if there's anything more specific that I want to talk about. What I struggle with is what I perceive is a conflict between my desire to continue the evolution of my being and my desire to produce and do during this time as well. And the balance between focusing on my being and the balance between doing and being of service, showing up in a way that can be of service, both to myself, I can't ignore that, and also to the world. PAUL: What I hear is they're not contradictory. It's simply about how they look and the authority that you prescribe to one thing or another. Who the man I am should show up as is still the egoic structure prescribing action. When you listen to the true self, which is a quieter voice, yes, it may carry you to a new direction, but you will not be faulted for it. The idea of a contemplative life which is actually quieting the industry or the product that you engage with is useful to a point. But this does not negate product or action in the world. To be in the world but not of it has always been this teaching. If you are feeling compelled to be quiet, honor the compulsion or the desire when you are called to act. There can also be no question the true self knows and will claim you in its agreement with will. When you align higher will, the true self as will with your expression, you move with grace. Period. And they're saying period. AUBREY: One of the things that I've felt is that there's certain times where I'm more compelled to do. And a lot of those times, it's times where I have less faith that there's support, and then there's guidance, and that there's help that's coming from multiple different places. And I start to take this onus, this burden, this weight more on my shoulders than is necessary, I think. I think for me, it's about like, when I can really have faith. And I recently just got a message, the voice came through and said, don't worry. We got this. We got this. We got this. We're going through and we're all in this together and we got this. And it was just this beautiful sense that actually the god that is everywhere and in everything, through me and beyond me, is actually moving, we're all moving together. And it's not about this lone ranger making a stand as the individual. It's about this collective. Instead of ego, it's like wego. We go together. Those are the times where everything feels like it balances out. When I place the burden on my own shoulders, it feels like I actually carry too much weight and I get burned out. PAUL: What I was hearing when you were speaking was it's what you're used to. So, that's what you do. It's just what you're used to. That can be changed easy, actually, here. AUBREY: Wow. I guess the final thing is it seems like for you, your journey of being able to actually embody the work seems to be also, you're in an evolution where it's getting easier for you to actually not only transmit it, but actually to live it, to be it. Would that be fair to say? PAUL: It's how it feels today, ask me in a week. It's how it feels now. I feel very grateful, really. Really, really, really grateful most of the time. And very surprised because what I'm experiencing now isn't something that I knew I could. I just didn't know that I could. I thought maybe this was supposed to be something other. And that's really interesting for me. That's where it is today. That's all I know. AUBREY: I just want to say as your friend, I'm really happy to hear that. And I really deeply love not only the work and the guides and everything that comes through you, but you as a human. And just have the utmost gratitude to both, as they're the same and as they're different. Just really the utmost gratitude on behalf of myself and also behalf of the world that this work continues and that this work is actually moving through your own life, Paul's life, in a way that's bringing more beauty and joy to your life. PAUL: Thank you so much. I love you too. AUBREY: Thank you for today. This was really, really special. And yeah, I look forward to getting the next book on innocence. I really see that second innocence coming. It's not the not the first naivety innocence. It's the second innocence of having gone through the challenges, and moving through the periods of separation, and arriving at that second innocence. So, I can't wait to see what those teachings have in store. PAUL: Happy to share them. AUBREY: So much love. Love you, Paul. Thank you, everybody. And thank you, everybody, for tuning in. That's a wrap. Thanks for tuning into this video. Make sure you hit subscribe, follow me at AubreyMarcus, check out the Aubrey Marcus Podcast available everywhere, and leave a comment. Let me know if this video resonated or what else you would like to hear from me in the future. Thank you so much.