Biohacks For A Better Human Experience w/ Dr. De | AMP #401

By Aubrey Marcus February 15, 2023

Biohacks For A Better Human Experience w/ Dr. De | AMP #401
How can we unlock and realize the full potential of our human experience?
Dr. De is the CEO of Biohax, an innovative company in the healthcare space who are pioneering technologies to optimize health, performance, and longevity. In today’s podcast, we discuss the latest breakthroughs in emergent medical fields, including topics like the epigenome, hormone therapies, micronutrients, HGH, peptides, and much more. I open up in full transparency about my health journey, use of these tools, and my aspirations for the future.

Connect with Dr. De:

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DR. DE: When you're on, you want to be on. And when you're off, you want to be off. The problem is or Western civilization, I mean the whole world now, for the most part, we take medication to try to stay on, take medication try to stay off. It's like we live in this limbo land. No man, I want to wake up and be like, "Let's go." And I want to be able to like, "No, I'm done. I feel my body naturally shutting off, et cetera." So when you're able to modulate the resources that your body's lacking and then take it to the next level, and us,e properly, peptides to manipulate the epigenome, that's ultimately where I see you're starting to have a better human experience.

AUBREY: I have always been incredibly interested in optimizing my physical, mental, emotional and spiritual performance. This is one of the reasons why I started Oneit. But that quest has continued, a quest that has brought me to explore hormone optimization, and most recently, fertility optimization, which is something that we talk about on this podcast, with Dr. De, the CEO of an organization called Biohax, that is on the cutting edge of all of the peptides and different longevity and performance treatments that are available today. We have a fun conversation that goes a bit into my own medical challenges and path to optimization as well as what's available in the market in general, and how medicine can and will be practiced in the more beautiful world our hearts know as possible. So enjoy this podcast with Dr. De. Dr. De?

DR. DE: What's up my brother? Thanks for having me, man.

AUBREY: Here we are. Absolutely, absolutely. So we're here in Miami, this is your hometown.

DR. DE: Yes, sir.

AUBREY: But I didn't meet you here. I met you when I was out at Jake Paul's fight out in Arizona, and didn't have any ideas about potentially meeting somebody who could help manage my health. But we ended up riding in cars together as we were going to and from the fight to support Jake and in that fight against Anderson Silva. I started to get to talking with you. What I saw was a medical mind that actually saw beyond just what the conventional medical model sees and started to see the patient really, like who the person really is, what the energy was all about, how the heart plays into it, and has all the knowledge about the hormones and the peptides and everything. I was like, "Damn, this might be my guide, this might be my guide." So with that, after that happened in that moment, when I recognised that, hit you up, and obviously you're the CEO Biohax?

DR. DE: Yeah.

AUBREY: CEO of Biohax and I got with you and your team, and we did a bunch of tests, made it really easy and looked at all my blood, and we started to kick it off. So I wanted to use this as an opportunity to share with my audience both some of the things that have worked with me, some of the mistakes that I might have made, some of the things that I wasn't aware of as I've been working with different doctors and just share, really, a story of, in many ways, performance health, fertility health and male hormonal health in an interesting way. And we haven't got to talk about that so thanks for coming on the podcast.

DR. DE: Brother, so honored, such a pleasure to be here. I remember that car ride, a lot of sirens next to us, we're getting escorted--

AUBREY: That was pretty cool. We got a police escort. You said the fight now and I couldn't even remember which... For a second you said Anderson Silva. I was like, "Oh yeah." Been through that with Jake a few times. That kid's a very special kids. He's doing really good work. Special guy.

AUBREY: Yeah, he's a special guy. And I think people don't actually understand. They only see a sliver of the guy that, I think, you and I get to see.

DR. DE: I'm going to say something from the bottom of my heart. He's one of the top humans I admire right now. From getting to know him and seeing him in these last two years that I've been with him and seeing his growth, God bless him. He's such a good person. But in that conversation I remember... Lukis introduced us, right?

AUBREY: Yeah, so Lukis Mac and Hellé Weston who were also there supporting Jake Paul. This is all... Jake's got his [inaudible 04:30]. He's got a bad ass entourage rolling with him.

DR. DE: I think I was talking to Jake's coach and he's like, "There's somebody you got to meet, bro. You and him are going to vibe because you both..." Okay. And then yeah, walked up to you. One thing I'll tell you, your energy immediately... I walked in this room, I was commenting on somebody's energy here too. That's something I'm trying to learn how to pay more attention to. And just right here, just me saying this, this already does not play any role in traditional medicine. Jst me talking about this--

AUBREY: Energy. What are you talking about?

DR. DE: He has an MD? I have a doctor in medicine and went to school for this and did postdoc work and research and metabolism and so forth. I was in that model, definitely dressed with a button-up every day and walking--

AUBREY: Wore the costume.

DR. DE: Yeah, wore the costume. Last hospital I worked at was at Cleveland Clinic here--

AUBREY: Now apparently, the costume is sleeveless with a hoodie, which is rare. We both ran into each other, I was like, "What are the chances that we're both wearing sleeveless with a hoodie?" Whatever it is. It would have been more insincere if we changed just so we didn't look like we planned it. But this is actually our humility showing that oh, yeah, we're being twinsies right now.

DR. DE: Absolutely, and I believe, again, going back to energy and so forth, there's something there. There's something in the ether.

AUBREY: This is a sleeveless hoodie podcast. That's what we're talking about.

DR. DE: Discussing energy and so forth, you and I in that car ride, I think opened doors to our connection. My role in your life and other people's lives, I think is to be a little bit of a beacon of hope, and of light, just to understand what's going on on this planet. I dedicate my time to studying this stuff. Even today, I was talking to, I think he's the next Elon Musk of the biotech space, his name is Ryan Smith, a very, very good friend of mine. He owns TruDiagnostics, the company that does the epigenetic testing, which according to him, apparently, we have the largest database of epigenetic information in the world right now, us at Biohax. I was like, "Okay, I didn't know that." He told me that last week. But just talking to him, he was telling me about the Imprintome. The Imprintome is basically how, it's epigenetic, generational, transitioning from... Not from you to your kids, but from your parents to your kids. My role... I know, it's on your face. Yeah, that's crazy. What they ate will influence your kids.

AUBREY: So the grandfather-grandmother generation.

DR. DE: Nuts, nuts, and this is all brand new stuff--

AUBREY: So two generations.

DR. DE: I feel like my job is to take these things that are never, not never, but are going to take a long time to be recognised by traditional medicine and by traditional medical models. I understand because you want to be cautious in what you're approving out there to be said, and different medications and what's FDA-approved and what's not. But the role too, is to guide people along their health with the most cutting edge things, but also the sacred sciences of our planet Earth, which we're veering totally off with all this chemical engineering that we're surrounding ourselves with and making us toxic. I really believe it's disrupting our connection with our higher self and our maker. So it's much more than just, "Here, take yourself." Something deeper man.

AUBREY: You called it the Imprintome?

DR. DE: Yeah, it's nuts.

AUBREY: It's really interesting, because what you're talking about is healing generational trauma. That's a complicated thing to think about. And I didn't plan on talking about this on the podcast, but in the psychedelic medicine world, of course, you experience that, you experience things passed down from the lineage, either your paternal lineage, your maternal lineage, things that have happened in your line. You certainly feel like you have you get the opportunity to work with that on a spiritual level, but what you're saying is that there's actually epigenetic triggers that are happening. Just for a moment, to just have some compassion and sympathy that people are suffering the wounds and traumas that their parents and their grandparents suffered. I'm Jewish and my parents escaped from Russia, not my parents, but my great-great-great-grandparents escaped from Russia during the pogroms. They were being persecuted by the Russians. I was Jewish. So that's a couple generations away, so I haven't really felt that necessarily in my own field. But now as we get closer, we're talking about Jews who have had their grandparents go through the Holocaust, we're talking about people of color who have been subject to just ridiculous amounts of racism and the sexism that's occurred and also the just personal trauma, sexual trauma, all of this stuff. There's so much that comes from our ancestors. And just the compassion... We're so quick to judge people. "I can't believe this person is..." You don't even know what they're carrying, not only from a spiritual standpoint, but actually from an epigenetic standpoint. They may be carrying a lot, a lot. So everybody, let's give a little bit of grace to everybody else out there, knowing that there's a lot that we all have to deal with.

DR. DE: Absolutely. And what you're saying on the epigenetic side, and I guess, for listeners to maybe get a bigger grasp of what it is, because we're, "Epigenetic, genetic, epigenetic, whatever." Two minutes on what the epigenetic is or epigenome is. Back in the year 2000, 2001, we wanted to calculate the human genome to really understand how many genes, et cetera were inside the human. I think everybody remembers the Human Genome Project. Let me see if I remember this off the top of my head. We were estimating humans to have about a billion genes, one billions. We did this by extrapolation. We saw that a grain of rice had 52,000 genes. Mosquito if I'm not mistaken, 100,000 something genes 172,000 genes something like that. AUBREY: They need to change that one motherfucking gene that tells the mosquitoes to bite me first. Because that motherfucker is in there and it's creating my own generational trauma.

DR. DE: Bro, mosquitoes are attached to you. Mosquitoes love me. They eat me alive.

AUBREY: Maybe it's because we're putting good peptides--

DR. DE: I know. I know. There's something there, man. But check this out: Remember, a grain of rice 52,000 genes. You know how many genes are inside of the human? 23,000 genes, half of the grain of rice. Half of the grain of rice. It's crazy. Wait a minute. That's what epigenetics is. You're not totally made up--

AUBREY: So we thought there was going to be a billion--

DR. DE: But there's only 23,000.

AUBREY: It actually turns out there's 23,000, which is less than actually some of the more simple organisms that exist. What you're saying is, the reason is because epigenetics is almost like quantum computing where things can switch on and off sections and change the code of the genes.

DR. DE: So now bringing it back to what you were saying on the trauma and so forth. And I hope some of our listeners have their jaw dropped. I still remember when I first learned this, I'm like, "Wait, wait, wait. Hold on..." We have half the genes of pretty much of a grain of rice. So what makes this beautiful complexity of this organism in front of me called Aubrey Marcus? How is he functioning? I thought it was the complexity of his DNA, which indeed, yes, that's true. But what the epigenetics is... Epi means over. So epigenetics is your environment. Your whole lifestyle, everything is impacting your DNA and thus your gene expression. You're not altering your genes, but your gene expression is really what's at play, being influenced. And now we have this Imprintome idea, being influenced by your past, and also gives us hope, that we can actually make changes, chemical changes, really biochemical changes which I believe in and live by. I'm not saying pharmaceutical changes, I'm saying biochemical changes, bringing your framework, your biochemical framework back to how you were designed or how you were made to operate and then thus improving your epigenome and hopefully, improving your human experience.

AUBREY: Amen One of the things that's talking about the blueprint of who we are... When I was 36, I found that I was getting depressed. It was difficult. I'd always loved working out. I've been working out my whole life, I've been an athlete my whole life. I didn't want to go to the gym anymore, I couldn't recover quite right. I was like, "Something's off, something's off." So I went and got my blood drawn and got my hormones checked. What they saw was sex hormone-binding globulin was through the roof. Of course, I was right in the middle of the founding and being the CEO of Onnit and in a polyamorous relationship and a lot of things. So my stress level was extraordinarily high. What the doctor explained to me at that point is that stress and sex hormone-binding globulin, which, correct me, if I'm wrong, but it soaks up the free available testosterone in your body. So not only was my testosterone low, which I think has a lot of other environmental causes, the kind of estrogenic world that we live in, from all the plastics and all the things that we do, but also because of my sex hormone-binding globulin being so high, I had almost very, very little actual testosterone available. So I got on testosterone replacement therapy then. I don't talk about my own health that much, but I really feel like now, because now that I'm with Vylana and I got started working with Biohax to actually figure things out, I wanted to share it. Starting at 36, I got into testosterone replacement therapy and fucking A, fucking A, it was better living through science. I was like, "Holy shit! I'm back, baby. I'm fucking back." I think people don't understand testosterone, first of all. I think they think of it, "Oh, it's all about macho man." It was so much more about how my brain was working. I felt like I was me again. The world was all difficult and hard and then all of a sudden, I started replacing some of the hormones that I was no longer producing or was getting absorbed by my sex hormone-binding globulin and it was, "Oh, I got this. I got this. We're good. We're good. Everybody. I'm going to call a meeting. I want everybody to know. We're good." That's really the effect that it had. And, of course, it had physical effects too. It was easier to put on muscle and whatnot but I was always in great shape. But really, as far as from a psychological perspective, it was a fucking miracle.

DR. DE: Just even before, I'll make some comments here, because a lot of people will say, "Oh, testosterone replacement therapy, whatever... Testosterone causes cancer and so forth." Yeah, it absolutely will cause cancer, if it's not bio-identical if it's not the one we're properly using. I say we're because I also use that stuff and a lot more. The philosophy is to use bio-identical substances which your body is deficient in, doesn't have the resources to produce because, again, a lot of environmental factors are not allowing us to actually produce that. And then you get guys like you and I'm going to include myself because I started Biohax, or started understanding the science behind Biohax, I was 30. I was a researcher at Cleveland Clinic, and just basically getting diagnosed with depression. Same thing. Went to see my hormone profile, and et cetera, no energy, no focus. I have no shame in saying that my sex life was pretty much starting to go out the window. I was with my beautiful wife already. So I was like, "What the heck is going on?" Same thing. Once you replace what's missing, not add something different than the body's producing, but replace what's missing, it's a whole new life. I like to joke around. I say, it's the hustler serum. You're like, "Bro, I got this." Your vitality, mood, energy, focus concentration gets better. And I'll even give you an example. I see this in the company all the time. Mrs. Smith brings Mr. Smith, and she's like, "Oh, my God, he's so grumpy," and she's 78, he's 82 or something like that. All of a sudden... He's never done any hormonal replacement therapy or anything like that. You give him a little bit of testosterone cream or something like that. He perks up, he starts to feel better. Even spatial recognition improves. If you started talking to him [inaudible 18:11] he'd say, "Yeah, I'm not losing myself so much or I'm not going from the bathroom to the kitchen and like, 'What am I doing here again?'" That starts to improve and it's not only about those, physical gains, et cetera. Totally with you, man.

AUBREY: It's one of those things that we live... We live in a world and in a way that's not like our ancestors lived. We're an animal. We're a primal, savage primate. And we're not living the life of a primal savage primate. We're not in a tribe, we're not connected with the oxytocin of always being linked with our brothers and our wives and our children, hunting and out in nature and long periods of just parasympathetic rest, and then short bursts of intensity in a hunt or a fight. We're not living that life. We're mostly just wired all the time trying to accomplish and do, and create companies and build stuff. It's beautiful. I love our current life. I'm not trying to say that I would like to romanticize and go back and regress to our ancestors. Maybe sometimes I wish I could. Ultimately, I do love our life, but the lifestyle needs to have an equal countermeasure to actually support us, the animal us, to be able to function in this unnatural environment for us as animals.

DR. DE: You just mentioned something I always talk about. Before, I'm going to speak very rudimentary here, we had our little cave, we would have those sympathetic rushes, run from run from a tiger, hunt some food, a fight or something like that and then we would shut off. Nowadays, we don't shut off. We're constantly on. That email comes in, issues with work and the phone doesn't stop, et cetera. Our wearables are telling us constantly... I actually have two cell phones, man. Every once a year for about a month, I'll disconnect. I'll only use a phone that my assistant, my wife, my mom, dad and attorney--

AUBREY: The bad phone.

DR. DE: I'll disconnect for a bit and I actually go into deep study and so forth. But what ultimately that does, it leads us as humans into... We start to regress chemically really bad, really, really bad. And then on top of that, we're using other agents in our daily lives, like detergents and soaps, and so forth, that start to hurt us. And then on top of that, to try to fix it, we use medications that are not addressing the biochemistry at all.

AUBREY: Yeah, they're just addressing the symptoms of what we're experiencing rather than the root cause of what we're experiencing, which is toxic build-up from our environmental causes or depletion of the natural hormonal balance of what we have. It's funny because, the best person you can possibly be is the person with all of your hormones balanced and flourishing. I think sometimes people think oh, testosterone, that's what makes men violent, and that's the shadow masculine. No, no, no. This is necessary for any man, the loving father, the romantic lover, the leader. Every good aspect that you ever want and that's not just in men, it's in women too, women need testosterone as well, just different amounts. But nonetheless, it's a part of every aspect of our life. That's really what I felt, when I first experienced replacing the hormones that I had lost. It was like, "Oh, shit, Here I am again. I'm home." That was a really profound thing. At that point, I didn't have the awareness about how this might affect certain things downstream. This circles back to the fertility thing. Because one of the things that happens, I was 36 then, in a polyamorous relationship, I was not thinking about fertility. In fact, the less fertility the better, at that point. So when you take testosterone, your fertility can actually dry up, basically. I was on testosterone, just testosterone for, I guess, five years. Then Vylana and I are finally talking about having kids. So let's see what's happening now. I'm pretty sure I'm not producing any sperm at all. But let's check to make sure. Sure enough, go to the sperm bank or whatever, the fertility clinic and give a donation. Actually, they let you give a donation at home now, which is way cooler.

DR. DE: Close the curtains, sir. Here's a magazine. It was literally zero. This was right before we went out to the Jake Paul fight. When we met, that was one of the things that was on my mind. I was like, "All right. I've had this thing, it's worked really well, I've felt like that one lever, just moving that one lever, has significantly uplevelled my life and brought me back to a normal balance state. But it's it's dried up all my fertility, so we got to switch some things around." That's where you guys at Biohax started to put together a programme for me. We're just starting that programme but I'm actually surprised at how smooth the transition has been. I've transitioned pretty much mostly off the testosterone, but I'll pass this over to you here to talk about what happens to fertility when you're on testosterone, like it happened to me and then some of the solutions that we're working with actually look like.

DR. DE: I know it's been pretty smooth and I heard some of your clothes are fitting a little tighter now.

AUBREY: I have actually put on more muscle since getting on the new protocol, which is surprising to me because I'm taking less testosterone.

DR. DE: Exactly. So I wanted to start off there because lots of times the guys are like, why don't they want to get off of testerone, "Because I'm going to wither away. I'm going to turn very skinny, whatever."--

AUBREY: Also, just a note, you can't just take testosterone and put on muscle. You got to work out too. This is not something... You got to fucking hit it. That's what I've been doing my whole life, is hitting it hard. You do that though, then all of a sudden, you start to see oh, wow! All right.

DR. DE: You put, what, 12 pounds?

AUBREY: 12 pounds on.

DR. DE: 12 pounds. Here's the idea, when you're starting to prepare the body or bodies to make a human, which that's sacred, man, that's super, super sacred.

AUBREY: Some would say the most sacred.

DR. DE: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I agree with you. I just had our first baby, as you know, six-month-old, a little Apollo. I'm going through that process right now. Once you start to remove that testosterone, the exogenous testosterone from your body, the idea is to get your body to produce endogenous, your own testosterone. I, for example, we had the baby... I never got off...

AUBREY: When your body's producing your own testosterone, you're also producing sperm. Somehow those two things are linked. If you're not producing testosterone, then you're not producing sperm. And when you're taking in bio-identical testosterone, your body recognises, your body's fucking smart, your body recognises hey, we got enough testosterone. Let's stop the factories. We're going to stop the factories. Oh, by the way, the factories also make sperm. They're like, "All right. Shut it all down." That's what basically happened. I was getting the testosterone so the sperm and testosterone factory shut down. What you're talking about is these other different hormones that can actually get the body kick-started again and say, all right, factory's back in action. We're back making Fords. We're making Marcus vehicles again.

DR. DE: So this is my personal science philosophy at Biohax by which I designed our modus operandi: I don't think the guy should be shut off while he's taking the testosterone, to tell you the truth. Lots of it goes into the dosing protocols. The traditional 200 milligrammes you see a lot in these clinics, 200 milligramme testosterone shot once a week, yeah, that's going to shut you off, because you're going to have that huge peak of testosterone, which when you take that shot, even though you're trying to hit a 900... Testosterone goes from 300 to about 1200, depends on the labs. Some labs, I've still seen, go to 1500, others are coming down to 900 but let's say 1,200, I tthink is the one I see the most. When you take that shot, it's going to go way up there. That's not physiologic. My whole goal is to make the body... I'm going to speak, personally, I want my body to react if I was a Spartan living with the Spartans in the Spartans times. I want to have that kind of like physique, that kind of bravado, that kind of manliness that they had at that time, naturally. It's not by doing one shot a week, and it's going to go peak all the way up there. One thing that happens when you do those peaks and valleys, that's when you shut off the FSH, LH, the follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone activity that's going to the Leydig cells and the Sertoli cells in the testicles and shuts them off. And then, like you said, it recognises the testosterone but doesn't produce sperm. So one of the ways to do it is actually to shut off that big peak and valley. You do it smaller. You'll pin more times. And obviously, you don't have to pin and I told that, you don't have to pin with those big harpoon looking things, you can pin with small little insulin needles, three to four times a week. Then in between, with that, you come in with other hormones that will help, other secretagogues that will help your FSH and LH to turn back on, like classically hCG, but there's things like gonadorelin, kisspeptin and there's even plants like Fadogia agrestis. There's a few things.

AUBREY: Let's slow down and talk about a couple of these things. Because the big switch was I was on one cc of a 200-milligramme cyprionate which was exactly what the testosterone was per week. I divided it into two shots, but that was still enough to give me the peaks and valleys to shut me off completely. Then we switched over to doing hCG, which was actually going to then allow me to start producing my own testosterone and then producing... Actually, honestly, my balls actually came back as well. That's the factory and when the factory was shut down... Factory was shut down. That happened really quite fast. I expected that to take a while longer, but it felt like oh, wow. I haven't gotten my sperm checked again. It's only been about a month since I've been on the hCG but it feels like and I look forward to verifying this, it feel like it's quite possible that I might be back on and fertile again.

DR. DE: At this point, I'm pretty confident that you are. And this is what we try to especially for guys that have been on testosterone-replacement therapy for quite some time, and every guy is very different... Some guys could take a shot at testosterone and their pituitary gonadal axis will act different than another guy. Some guys will take less to shut off. It's what we call medicine negative feedback. That's very different for most males, but the thing is, what you start to do is squeeze that testosterone protocol and split it up as much as possible and then, concomitantly, scale that secretagogue but we're not only doing that... And something big also that we're doing--

AUBREY: What's the secretagogue?

DR. DE: Secretagogue, a hormone, in this case, that will make your body secrete its own hormone?

AUBREY: So that's the hCG? hCG is a secretagogue.

DR. DE: It's an expression for those types of hormones that are making your body produce its own. Now, it's not only that activity that we're doing that's also not only not letting you lose the the muscle mass but gain muscle mass, get leaner, where you're feeling your gonads or your testes come back online, et cetera. Hopefully, we're going to have a successful sperm count, but also the other stuff that we're doing... The micronutrients and so forth. For listeners to understand, we're definitely doing something way deeper than just looking at your hormones and taking the testosterone and so forth. I mean, the micronutrients, peptides, we're looking at--

AUBREY: It's a holistic picture to actually get anywhere near health. And I think that's also one of the big problems with medicine is it gets very myopic. It focuses on one symptom and one chemical solution to that symptom. Sometimes that works great if you have a staph infection, and you take an antibiotic. All right, one to one. This is the problem. This is the solution. Fixed it. Perfect and blessings, blessings to allopathic pharmaceutical medicine, for having those solutions available. Very important, but ultimately, if you don't take in the whole 360 degree, including the energy, including the micronutrients, including the whole function of the system, mindset, every other aspect, you really have no chance at holistic, full vibrancy, full fuck, full health.

DR. DE: With certain peptides and things that we're using with you... The next thing I'd love to, perhaps, see you on, which is very also conducive for fertility is thymus therapy even. That's a big... But the thymus gland, that's so important. Not your thyroid, I'm saying thymus gland. Even the ancients used to tap their thymus--

AUBREY: So where's the thymus? The thymus is a part of the chest?

DR. DE: It's part of the chest. In medical school, first year, a lot of doctors watching this will probably remember a question that we use, some medical schools do, you get a little X-ray of a baby's chest and then with a little arrow on an exam and they're asking, what's the structure? And it's pointing to what looks like the heart. Teachers give me a freebie here, and you write heart. Everybody gets it wrong. It's the thymus gland. So the thymus gland is huge when you're born. It regulates your immune system and then as you're dying and involuting basically, you almost can't even find it when you're older. There's studies now... There's a trial the listeners can pull up, it's called the TRIIM trial, which is a study published in aging cell that shows how you can actually reverse the aging process. They did ine males, and they were able to reverse their age by two years. And TRIIM trial stands for Thymic Regeneration, Immunorestoration, and Insulin-mitigation. To provoke the best ambiance for fertility, yes, adjusting the hormone protocols et cetera, but also preparing the body for such a sacred event, especially the female body--

AUBREY: How do you go about addressing the thymus. What do you feel from both medical and also a metaphysical perspective about what is the thymus? How do you see it when you when you see it, if you are going to mythologize it and also then talk materialist, reductionist scientist doctor. Talk both about this. You just explained a little bit about where it is and whatnot, but give people a sense of what is it.

DR. DE: I'll start on a personal. I think, right now, it's; this is wrong to say this; but I think say, my favorite organ.

AUBREY: All the other organs just lower their head in shame. All the glands are like--

DR. DE: Balls, I love you.

AUBREY: "Damn it. You know what? I did my best and Dr. De still has his favorites. I don't know what I got to do for him."

DR. DE: I'm sorry.

AUBREY: Fucking thymus just shrinking away, and he loves it the most.

DR. DE: Watch my balls shut off tonight withy my wife, "What did you say earlier today?" No, but it's so cool. In med school, we barely addressed it. What it does, it's programming your T cells and your immune system to defend the body. You have your r like Th17 cell... It gets pretty technical but they're releasing these cytokines and tumor necrosis factor alpha, and things like that, that are going to fight the physical triggers of immune response that are coming into the body, which are the chemicals, the excitotoxins, which is a nasty topic, which is like blue #1 and MSGs, they're in sweeteners and so forth, your body's going to use these T cells and what they're going to release to go fight these things. And the thymus gland is the one regulating this whole thing. But the crazy part is this headquarters of protection that's dying, as you're aging, and then eventually, part of death is your immune system being overwhelmed. Now, your thymus gland, as the TRIIM trial is showing, is the one that's salvaging that . That's the one that's helping your immune system to survive. But at the same time, lots of times when you feel that tightness in your chest, like somebody tells you something happened. People will say it's your heart, et cetera, but also is it not your thymus gland--

AUBREY: Because in those situations of stress, that's when you get sick. When you're feeling that compression in your chest and it feels like your heart's closing. Well, if your heart and your thymus are closely located and connected and in that same energy center, the energy center of your heart where you feel things shut down, well, that's when he gets stressed, well, that's when you get sick. It's actually another way to look at why we get sick when we're stressed or when we're actually in, some ways, quote, heartbroken, even though the heart can never be broken, everybody knows what I'm talking about, that feeling of just--

DR. DE: And just so you know, thymus therapy was first... I was trying to remember when the, I think, first physician-documented treatments were, Dr Endoberg in Sweden since 1938, he used it on 50,000 cancer patients. There's a lot of research in regards to this too. Good for autoimmune, fertility, et cetera but just basically preparing the body back to being healed. What I was telling you, the thymus gland is releasing these cells, which those are releasing, like interleukin 6, all these cytokines that are going to fight things that are hurting your body, but at the same time, a lot of medications that we take shut off--

AUBREY: The thymus.

DR. DE: Not the thymus, but the things, the cytokines that its thymus is releasing, I'll give you an example--

AUBREY: So it's killing the soldiers that are coming out of the factory?

DR. DE: Exactly. So for example methotrexate shuts off tumor necrosis factor alpha--

AUBREY: What's methotrexate?

DR. DE: It's a medication used for rheumatoid arthritis and so forth. MTX, that's what they call it in medicine. It shuts off that tumor necrosis factor alpha that is being released, I think, by Th17, which is a cell being released by the thymus gland. Nuts. So as that process is involuting, you lose that ability to fight it, but then at the same time, you're taking medications that are shutting everything off.

AUBREY: All right, so how do you create a thriving thymus?

DR. DE: Number one, removal of, I use this term a lot, physical triggers of immune response, because immune response, the thymus gland, so you don't want to overwhelm it. Actually, before even that, sometimes I watch where I'm having this conversation with you, I could definitely have this conversation. Let's go through an upper level spiritually. Your mind does not run on reality. Your mind runs on your perception of reality. So if you are in that state that you're running from the lion every day, all day and you can't shut yourself off, there's so many studies that the adrenal gland goes through the roof. Cortisol action goes super high. Literally cortisol starts to rot your thymus gland. So the activity of the cortisol in high levels of stress, because what is stress? High levels of cortisol--

AUBREY: Well, the body is preparing to do something that it knows should be acute. We're always trying to maximize the energy that we have in our body. We have a certain amount of energy, we try to maximize it. All right, there's a stressor. There's something we need to run from, there's something we need to fight for, there's something we need to do. All right, well, let's shut down all of the other energy systems, give everything to our adrenal and musculoskeletal energy, and ATP. Let's fucking go balls out, hit the nitrous tanks, we got to sprint here. And that's beautiful and brilliant. Thank you body for having that fucking intelligence. However, we are just not living a lifestyle where we're actually shutting off because those situations where short bursts of intensity and long periods of rest... That's not what we're experiencing. We're always on, we're always running, we're always fighting, we're always doing these things. So the cortisol is always high. And with that, all of the immune function and production of the thymus is then getting shut down.

DR. DE: Yeah, exactly. When you're in this forebrain-hindbrain kind of mentality or lifestyle, your body, when it's in that sympathetic go, go, go, your immune system takes a toll. And that's like you said, you get sick. That would be the first first way, I would say, mindfulness and just really get in tune with, I really like what you said, long periods of parasympathetic activity and just--

AUBREY: You know what's an interesting thing to note? Since end of 2021, basically, all of 2022, the only time I got sick... I got COVID twice and it wasn't bad, but I got it twice. But typically, in a year, I would get colds and flu, I wouldn't get sick. But actually, since I've started doing my regular ketamine-cannabis therapy, really, which is my sacrament, which is my place where I can actually deeply, deeply relax, I'm talking like quantum parasympathetic, I'm, so relaxed, that I literally... I go into these journeys and ask myself can I let go more? Can I let go more? Can I let go more? Oh yeah, what about more? How about surrender more? And I just go deeper, deeper, deeper, deeper. It's so restorative, that even though people around me, Vylana's gotten sick a couple of times and different people who stay in my house, people are sick, I used to always catch things from people. But I didn't. I have not gotten sick and I think really the only explanation is that I'm actually giving myself, in those experiences, the deepest, deepest rest possible. I can feel it happening. I feel this surge of lifeforce, this qi, this energy that floods over my body. And really, also because of my own metaphysical and spiritual beliefs, I'm super grateful for those beings, ascended masters, energies, entities, archetypes, or the one source of all that is, love beauty, intelligence of all of the universe, whatever is pouring through me is happening when I get to that deep state of rest, and I feel restored and it's been the healthiest I've been from a sickness perspective, period. The only thing that I can use to explain it is the fact that I actually have a practice now that allows me that type of deep rest.

DR. DE: I'll tell you from a science guy that likes to make the bridge in my essence is... I always say the normal isn't our regular. The normal's a paranormal. So a guy that likes to under take that deep dive, I really believe when you do that, most namely, and I don't mean to have some favoritism for glands again here, but the adrenal gland and the thymus gland, they really, really reset--

AUBREY: Yeah, everything gets to just relax and take a nap.

DR. DE: But now when you come to people like us at Biohax, we want to take it up a notch--

AUBREY: Of course. So that's step one. Give it some rest. Basics. Basics 101.

DR. DE: Figure out a routine, mindfulness et cetera. Follow Aubrey Marcus's footsteps.

AUBREY: I can't recommend that you follow my footsteps but it works fucking really good for me.

DR. DE: I know a lot of people [inaudible 44:59]. Theyr'e doing great. Two, would be to lower triggers of immune response. Maybe consider walking around your place, get up on that mountain of life and take some inventory on what you're putting into your body, on everything you're consuming, on the chemicals that are around you. Start with your cleaning products. There's not that many. Food? Everyone's like, "Oh my god, oh my god. I like this restaurant. I like this. How do I know..." Start with the stuff you're cleaning your body with, the detergents, your soaps, et cetera. There's so many things that are around us that are hurting our body, our system and so on so forth. Foods is another one--

AUBREY: And just so people know, I wrote about it in my book, "Own the Day," an incredibly high percentage of what you put on your skin, especially if you put it in your armpits or on your nuts, or certain parts of your neck, there's certain places where it's actually even higher, but the rates are extraordinarily high above 80% in a lot of places... We think if I'm not eating it... Well, you're basically eating 80% of it. So if you wouldn't eat it, and this is what I say in my book, if you wouldn't eat it, if you wouldn't eat the stuff you're putting on your skin. Don't fucking use it. Because it's going to get in you anyways. Are you just being a little sissy, you don't like the taste? You might as well fucking eat it. But if you wouldn't do that, think again. [inaudible 46:46]

DR. DE: I'm going to take that one from you. I'll call you. I'll call you every time [inaudible 46:48].

AUBREY: For sure.

DR. DE: Because man, the stuff that you put in your body has such a huge influence on your makeup and just everything about you. What most people don't understand nowadays, we can actually quantify this. There's laboratories... I really like... I don't have any business and association with this lab, but I just really like their work, Cyrex Laboratories. They're the first guys to... They pioneered the leaky gut test in the United States, intestinal permeability. These guys are all about understanding the immune system and the effects of environment on our immune system. There's awesome labs that you can actually see I actually have a little bit of an issue with this chemical, et cetera, I've had some exposure, and it's causing some kind of havoc inside of me. You can bet your butt, if you see that there, you're going to start to see, when you do, lots of times, a hormone panel, "Oh, why did that happen? The heck? I'm 28 years old and my testosterone is 300?" Yeah, buddy. That's the, in my opinion, one of the pandemics we're having is male testosterone levels are dropping and dropping and dropping and dropping. It's very different from the levels that our grandparents had. We've gone through two agricultural revolutions, the GMOs in the year 2000, and the pesticides in the '70s and it's not getting any better. But then going back to the thymus, and how to optimize that thymus gland, that's when you take inventory on the things that you perhaps can live a cleaner life and save some money too, man. Lots of times, you'll notice... People say, "It's so expensive to be healthy." No, take out gluten, take out dairy and use some clean products and you'll just see the difference you're going to see. Parents will tell me, "Oh my god, my kid, I can't get him to sit down." I don't want to get into this whole topic right now with ADHD, et cetera. I have my reservations with that topic. But just remove those excitotoxins from their life, get them to stop playing Call of Duty all the time, and clean out their diet a little bit, take out that gluten. Even if you can't afford to do all those tests, et cetera. But the thing is, we do those tests, we were able to map that out and then show the person these things are harming you. Then once that's done, and we help the person to modify their lifestyle, the next thing is let's look at what the body's missing. Peptides is definitely a topic I always land on, because I think it's the future of medicine--

AUBREY: Before we get the peptides, of course, there's the whole micronutrients thing, we don't need to spend a lot time on that--

DR. DE: Oh yeah, I skipped that one. I skipped that one.

AUBREY: We dont need to spend a lot of time on micronutrients, we get it. The best thing we can do is eat the most diverse foods but even eating the most diverse foods, a lot of times they're not coming from soil. Even if it's organic, doesn't mean that soil actually has all of the minerals and nutrients that it used to have or that it once had. You move from a mono-cropped plot of land and you're like, "Alright, we're done with the glyphosate. Organic." Great but the soil is already fucking destroyed. So we're not getting the same type of nutrition that we are from the animals that eat the grass. Hopefully, you're having grass-fed meat. That's a big deal. But we're not getting the same kind of nutrition that we used to get. So taking a look at the nutrients is important. And just to give one study to show people how effective this is, they did a study on, I think, it was paroled kids from a juvenile detention center and they gave one group just multivitamin, multi-mineral, multivitamin, really cheap. Then they gave the other group nothing, placebo. Then they measured the recidivism rate. Would those kids go back to juvenile hall. It was 40% decrease in the group that just had a fucking multivitamin. We think that people are just bad people, this is a fucking bad kid. Or maybe he's just malnourished and full of toxins and actually could use a lot of love, a good hug, and maybe a stronger parental influence. Okay, got it, all that. But just changing the micronutrients themselves, not the macronutrients, we're not talking about protein, fat, carbohydrates. We're talking about just the micronutrients with a basic... I'm sure in the study, it wasn't the fucking designer vitamins of all time, it waslike a fucking "Flintstones" vitamin, probably. But nonetheless, it made a significant difference in behavior that would land them back in juvenile hall.

DR. DE: The guy, just to significantly back you up, the guy that has I believe, the largest he's deceased, the database in terms of neuropsychiatric disorders and treating all of them with micronutrients alone, alone, talking about hardcore schizophrenia, bipolar, ADHD, all these things is William Walsh. He has a great book called "Nutrient Power." And then the subtitle is "Heal Your Biochemistry, Heal Your Brain". It's a powerful, powerful book. It's a bit technical. You'll read one page, Oops, let me go back. He talks about methylation and different biochemical pathways, but absolutely micronutrients are essential for the functioning of the body, the thymus, and your mind. Lots of times, you'll see people that... This is probably the community that I have the biggest... No, it is, for sure. The biggest passion for is a lot of these homeless people that we're like, "Oh, man, get a job." No, no, his brain, more than likely, is not working the way it should. Many times, it's either chemically-induced or there's a genetic pathway there that's a little off. Micronutrients and we also... We don't do the guessing game as you know. We map out how much Selenium, CoQ10 and VITAMINASE, all that stuff is in your body and then readjust that. Ultimately, this is something, the last step, I definitely want to take in terms of diagnostics, not the last step in your lens but one of the next steps I want to take in terms of diagnostics with you is to actually map out your DNA to do a proper designer protocol according to certain genetic factors that you might have. So it's lifestyle, environmental and then the DNA. So for example, one thing we're going to talk about hormones, genetically, my DNA, I'm super estrogen-dominant.

AUBREY: One of the reservations I have with, of course, the whole DNA model is just the ultimate faith in the epigenetic model. My belief that through actually, as Joe Dispenza, who wrote in his book, "You Are the Placebo", through your mind, you can actually trigger different epigenetic switches to change your base DNA. It's not the life sentence, the fate that people thought it once was, it's in your genes--

DR. DE: No!

AUBREY: We have the ability to adjust our genes all the time.

DR. DE: Absolutely!

AUBREY: But however, there are some certain baseline aspects of gene expressions that just change things. Even with the layer of epigenetics, which I put the most faith in, what you're saying is basically, it's still worth looking at the DNA, even though the epigenetic layer can actually alter a lot of that as well?

DR. DE: I don't want to ruffle the feathers of some of my friends that are CEOs of some of these companies, but I'll... It's something I use personally, even for myself and so forth. I want to understand certain pathways in my body that need to be strengthened from a nutritional standpoint, et cetera. For example, the fact that I'm estrogen-dominant is something that I need to know. The epigenome can help you with that, et cetera. But also knowing that, in the totality of my health programme, I give it about a 10% strength in the whole thing. Just again, because of my faith in the epigenome. One thing, for example, you hear all the time a person got cancer. Well, bad luck. One in 10 cancers is actually genetic, genetic genetic, when you have familial adenomatous polyposis and HNPCC gene. Okay, all right, that's big deal. But a lot of these cancers, the genes are responsive to environmental,turning them on, turning them off the expression of the gene. I personally have a bad gene from my heart, it's called MYBPC3. I was born with it, it's there. Doesn't mean I'm going to wake it up. I'm going to live a lifestyle not to wake up that gene. It is a little dicey. Some people are like, "Oh, I don't know if I want to know this," et cetera. But then if you have faith in the epigenome, then it's okay, I know, I can get to work on this and use it as a motivator. That's where the mindset part comes in. Use it as a motivator to adjust, effectively, the rest of your life.

AUBREY: One of the things that I've struggled with understanding what I actually believe about it, is there's some people who have... There's a certain breast cancer gene. I don't exactly know what it is, but I know that there's certain people with that gene who decide to actually remove their breast tissue in advance of actually anything bad happening. In that instance, it seems to me like man, I'm not sure that that's the right choice, I guess because of my belief in the epigenome. You may have that and it may have a proclivity to express in a certain way but you have far more agency over that, than you realize.

DR. DE: I don't know, I'm not going to quote here off the top of my head. Everything I'm saying is backed by a tonne of studies and so forth. Everything I've said in this podcast is coming off of--

AUBREY: We'll do our best to put a lot of it on the show notes.

DR. DE: For sure. I insist on doing that, because that's how it should be when you're discussing medicine. There's studies showing how, for example, the BRCA1, BRCA2 genes, I believe those are the genes you're speaking of, they are extremely sensitive to Diindolylmethane, which is found in cruciferous vegetables. That's where sprouting, and so forth... These people that have that issue, that have the BRCA gene... It's powerful. If I'm not mistaken, it's around around 80% reduction in the expression of that gene. It's ridiculous. Wait a minute, something as simple as DIM, Diindolylmethane, which is found in broccoli? Yes. There's a lot of studies in regards to this. I can pull these studies up. I'm not going to quote. I don't want to say anything wrong here. But I'll throw them up. I'll throw it at you guys so you guys can connect it to the podcast.

AUBREY: So you're saying that--

DR. DE: And that's manipulating the epigenome again. So that's one of the defenses if you do ihave one of these gene expressions, having high levels of Diindolylmethane will actually help you prevent you from expressing?

DR. DE: Absolutely. You should be on a protocol like that. The cardiologist that I worked with and saw that I had this MYBPC3 gene thing, he's like, "There you go. You're going to have this and this and this." "Why don't you put me on medication?" "No, no, no, no." Obviously, the conversation didn't go too far with him. I know other cardiologists are very open-minded to this. But I said, "No, I'm not going to wake up this gene." Number one, intention and thought, and by the grace of God, I'm going to keep this gene dormant. I'm going to do my part to live a life to not have this, to develop... In this case, it develops cardiomyopathy, basically, big heart. And as you know, I train like a dog. I feel great. My New Year's resolution was actually training with Cyborg's protein in jujutsu.

AUBREY: I mean, you got a band aid over your nipple there. It looks like somebody ripped it off.

DR. DE: Oh yeah. You actually caught that? Here you go. I got a cut there actually. It wouldn't stop bleeding.

AUBREY: I actually think that, also, just to speak on that for a minute as well... I have an organization called Fit For Service where we bring people through, of all genders, through transformation. There's another organization that I deeply respect that I'm friends with called Sacred Sons and they do the same thing, but just for men. In their men's programmes, I haven't attended, but my friend Charles Eisenstein's attended and a lot of other brothers that I know have attended this, and one of the things they get these men to do is actually sacred combat. They box or they wrestle or whatever. A lot of people like Charles, Charles Eisenstein, wrote an article, an essay called, "I Like to Fight", and he tells the story about how he went there. He's never really fought in his life. And he gets there, and they ask him if he's, interested. They find a well-suited person. He's like, "Yeah." And then were like, "Why do you want to fight?" He's like, "Well, because I was attacked during the whole COVID era and I wasn't able to fight back. I want to know that there's really fight in me and that I was actually doing that for the right reasons and it wasn't just because I was scared and I want to know that I can fight." Then he gets in this actual physical confrontation in the sacred combat. It woke something up and gave him a little trust about who he was as a man. I don't think it's just important for men. We have cats that you've probably heard meowing on this podcast. They're brother and sister. When they play, they play full out. They go at each other, and they give each other hell, and then they stop, and then they'll cuddle and then they'll lick each other. It's just part of, I think, what our birthright is, is to actually see what we're made of when we put our physicality against another person. And if you don't do that, I don't think you actually understand your blueprint as an animal. I think it's really important.

DR. DE: I was telling my wife the other day, and she didn't like this idea too much at first, but I was telling her, "I'm going to tell her son that maybe it's a good idea for him to engage in combat at least once a week as an adulting male." That's something I try to do. I spar or whatever more than once a week. I believe that's also part of me releasing whatever's in there, just not only those periods of mindfulness, et cetera but the period where I go back into just pure human, pure raw, the animal inside of me, sex and fight and all that, that's the animal inside of us. I believe I need to be in tune with that too. That goes back to the whole fulcrum of what we were talking about on the podcast is if you're chemically not right, you're not going to express that human, that animal. That animal dies off, bro and you feel that. You feel that dying off. Without certain chemicals inside your body, and one I'd love to touch base on because I know the world has a big taboo on it, I honestly believe this chemical's having its Renaissance, or this molecule, growth hormone. Growth hormone is another one that I think is something essential in your body. They say it causes cancer. Wait, hold on. You have two huge chemical interventions in your life. Puberty. And you and I will have andropause, women have menopause. So when do you have most cancer? During puberty or during menopause andropause? Right after menopause and andropause. When do you have the high surges of growth hormone? Right there during puberty. I'll add another research article that they did on 11,000 and change, 11,000 meta analysis on--

AUBREY: And just to summarize for the listeners who may not know what he's talking about is the common risk that people associate with growth hormone is that it could grow a tumor. That's something that, in talking to you, you really believe quite the opposite. That's what you're trying to say is when the growth hormone is the highest, the body has the least amount of tumors. Really, I think, a lot of the medical model misunderstands how important energy is. If we have energy... It's why it's why a ketogenic diet or ketones are so valuable because your body, all of a sudden, has energy and then you read a book like Travis Christofferson's "Tripping Over the Truth", Otto von Warburg's Metabolic Theory of Cancer and understanding how actually if you can wake up the mitochondria through restricted ketogenic dieting and through hyperbaric oxygen and different aspects like that, you're actually going to be able to not only... There's not only help restore and rehabilitate your body, instead of trying to fight the cancer, give your body enough energy to restore its health. It's just a whole shift in mindset but energy is absolutely important, the ability to repair itself. So stem cells and growth hormone and all of that, energy and repair hormones and all of that is so much more valuable than people think. I feel the truth of that. More and more studies are coming out. There's even recent studies that are pointing to restricted ketogenic diets, so putting the body in ketosis actually helps to heal schizophrenia. My friend, Erick Godsey is wildly obsessed with this new research that's come out. So it's not only physical conditions, but it's actually mental health conditions. Ketogenesis is just one way to give your body energy back, to start to rehabilitate your mitochondria, which of course, there's lots of other ways to do it. There's peptides, there's a bunch of things but giving yourself the energy and the repair cascade, and all of the raw ingredients to be a fucking thriving human, that's going to be so effective for your health. I used to really be scared. My uncle had lymphoma. It was my biggest fucking fear. I'd feel my glands all the time and I would worry. I watched him die. My uncle was my hero. He taught me how to serve in tennis. He was one of my heroes. The first person that teach me how to shoot a gun. He was fucking awesome, my mom's brother, Craig Harder. So much love to Craig. I watched him die of lymphoma. It made this deep, deep impact, and he's my uncle. I was afraid for a long time and a lot of my Ayahuasca journeys brought up. But that fear has just really gone away now that I've started to really trust my body. It used to feel like it was a random thing that could just happen. Craig, he was always playing tennis, he was so good. It's always difficult to ascribe causality to it, but what I do know is that the full energetic system thriving and expressing itself in every way, when all of the energy centers are pulsing and alive, I fundamentally just do not believe that that is a part of the possibility of my timeline anymore. It's really so much more about energy and so much more about... I mean that from a mitochondria standpoint and also from a metaphysical standpoint of energy, which actually are very related. I think we try to... One of my teachers is a shaman, Maestro Hamilton Souther, one of these classic famous lines when he's talking about doing work with plant medicines is, "Energy levels matter." You could think you're going into a ceremony, it's so tough and you're being attacked by all of these cosmic negative forces. Maybe you're just tired. Then you go into the same thing and you're like, "It was amazing and I was dancing on the lap of God and Shiva was there." Well, your energy was different. Energy levels in integration and ceremony really matter. I think it matters in health. That's just buttressing and supporting this idea of holistic energetic health. DR. DE: Absolutely. You just mentioned a word that I love, mitochondrias too, which is another system. We spoke about the thymus gland, a little bit about adrenal but the mitochondria, it's so important. It's a little battery of the cell.10% of your body weight is mitochondria. And 25% of the weight of your heart is mitochondria. Think about that for a second. It's so powerful, so deep. That little organelle is so important for your health, and they're dying off as we're aging as well. You mentioned lymphoma, cancer, whatever, those are mitochondrial diseases. They start by attacking the mitochondria. That's also work that we're doing with our clients and so forth to reestablish those mitochondrial pathways, and thus help with longevity. Our main thing or one of my main goals, actually, the main goal, at Biohax is what I say to get our clients to celebrate a negative birthday. What is a negative birthday? It's to be able to show the person, effectively, like that TRIIM trial... By the way, do you know the drugs they used on TRIIM trial to get the age rewind? Recombinant growth hormone, DHEA and metformin? I'm not a fan of metformin, you can use other things. But the growth hormone, that was one of the... The idea is to get the person to celebrate this negative birthday, which is to show them, hey, look, you've been doing this programme for six months, a year, et cetera and actually, your epigenome is slowing down. Last year, I was aging at a rate of 85% of the year instead of aging 100% of the year. I was aging 85% of the year. This year, I really took some strong initiatives, et cetera. I'm at 75%. The record in the country, and I was at 60%, I'm in the top 10 percentile, but I want to slow it down even more, but now's when you got to start getting really meticulous.

AUBREY: Yeah, I was talking to Christian Angermayer about this concept. And really, he believes that it's possible that instead of getting to 60%, the moment we get to negative 1%, we're functionally immortal. If you can actually live a year, but actually regress by a year in a day, then at that point, you're actually functionally immortal, which is a fucking crazy thought. But what you're saying is we're already, some people, outliers are already down to 60%.

DR. DE: So what you're talking about, I think, is called the human escape velocity. So basically, us being the last generation to die, or the first one will live forever. That's right there.

AUBREY: It's so science fiction. Lots of things that are real science fiction are starting to become a little bit closer to reality.

DR. DE: Exactly. Exactly. I believe I'm saying it right, human escape velocity is a concept that... I've always been like, "Nah." Now I'm like, "Okay." Starting to see these things really manifest itself.

AUBREY: I think everybody's always looking for the magic bullet. Aha! We discovered the one thing and really talking to Christian Angermayer, the way that he's looking at it, and he's, of course, a biotech investor, the way he's looking at it is no, no, no, it's going to be the aggregate of a million little things. Instead of death by 1,000 paper cuts. It's going to be life by a by 1,000 paper blessings or whatever. It's lots of little things, lifestyle changes, spirit, emotional changes, energetic changes, physical changes, peptide changes, hormone changes, different and then some really awesome new shit that we haven't discovered. Obviously, if we discovered it, we'd be there already. But it's a combination of a lot of different things.

DR. DE: Can I add to that? Let me see if I could do this in 60 seconds. The essence of what I believe in all my years of studying is biology, medicine, all that stuff, there's four pillars of all disease, four pillars, disease and aging. There's 10,000 monogenic diseases documented right now, meaning a disease connected to one gene. There's more than that, but that's a lot of disease. But the pillar of all these diseases is inflammation, oxidation, free radicals all over the place, glycation and methylation, the process of turning on and turning off certain genes and again, getting back into that epigenome conversation. Now to control that, this is what I do for my life, and I help manage the life of many of our clients, et cetera at our company. [inaudible 1:13:40]

AUBREY: That's what I'm saying. They're living the life of a cat. I have conversations with Vylana. I'm like, "Listen, our cats need an initiation. I think they're missing out on the best evolution of their cat soul if they don't have the ability to fight some strangers." We've already taken away their ability to mate with strangers. We got to give them something. So they got to be able to fight and hunt. She's not so keen on the fighting and hunting programme for our young cat children. Nonetheless, it's the same kind of philosophy I have with them. Yeah, fucking be a cat. That's important. You got to do that. That's why animals in the zoo are so sick. You see a fucking tiger--

DR. DE: Or maybe our kids, maybe our kids in a school system.

AUBREY: Exactly! Exactly! We're like animals in a zoo. They start doing crazy things, grinding their teeth or grinding their horns and showing all of these signs of what we would call neuroses or mental mental health disorders, the orcas at SeaWorld. They're showing all of the signs of mental health disorders. We just can't talk to them about it, but they're showing all of the signs and of course, our society showing all of these signs of mental health disorder. That's why it is so important to train jujutsu or go to events like Sacred Sons. And I think we might do an event with them as well. Find some way to start being more like the cats, like finding somebody to wrestle with and tangle with. Of course, sexuality can be an aspect of that, but all too often it's too transactional and too much about the moves that you're making and what you're doing. Are you generating a climax? It's not just monkeys, and they're back in the garden, making love again. Finding out what does the animal really want? What would make it thrive?

DR. DE: I think us being able to connect with the universe, our maker, the earth itself, that's why you see certain certain philosophies like grounding, something as simple as--

AUBREY: Walking barefoot on the dirt.

DR. DE: No, man. That's basic stuff. Or even mud therapies and so forth. You need that. You need that to be able to, again, get into in touch with that animal side of you, which ultimately promotes health.

AUBREY: That was epic timing, by the way. You said that animal inside you and then Cyrano just bolted across--

DR. DE: There you go. We rehearsed that.

AUBREY: Good job, Cyrano. I'll give you a cat biscuit later.

DR. DE: Ultimately, the gentleman you were just quoting a few moments ago about us living forever, it's a combination of things and I think it's a little bit of what I believe, what we do is going back to the grand design to how you were designed to operate, but using technologies that we have today, to get us there. A lot of these biotech innovations, I really believe can get us there. I don't know that we're going to be playing God by controlling the aging process. To tell you the truth, I don't know if we will get there, but I do see some of my colleagues have started huge initiatives. I got into this because I want to live longer and perform at the highest level possible on a day to day basis. Okay, what do I need to do to my body to get my body there? That's what I was telling you before. The philosophy is to remove toxicity, replenish what's missing, reinoculate the gut flora, recover, which we don't recover. 30% of the United States suffers with insomnia, and then ultimately, to re-exist.

AUBREY: Yeah. And necessary for that is dropping inflammation down to the floor. Inflammation is such a... I think that's why people like the Petersons, Jordan and Mikhaila, they went on a carnivore diet. Mikhaila is even more strict on the lion diet. It's a super low-inflammation diet. So many of the challenges they were facing, energetically, psychically, everything, they tell this story... I'm not going to retell their whole story, but what is it? The meat has some magical thing? No. It's the way that that diet interacts with the gut and prevents inflammation, those pro inflammatory cytokines from a leaky gut, from a lot of the different foods that we eat, that are not the right foods to eat. So just really a super low inflammation programme, and that changes the whole mentality. Inflammation and depression are virtually indistinguishable when you start to measure those two things. They have very similar effects. When you're inflammed, you're also tired and having depressive thoughts. There's lots of correlative studies showing the correlation between inflammation and depression.

DR. DE: Without a doubt there, it's all connected. When you go into, like I said, those four pillars of aging and disease, sub-methylation, oxidation, glycation, inflammation... It's like, "Wait, you didn't say anything that I would connect to oon the psychiatric side?" No, no, those are all playing a role and inflammation is huge." Ultimately, for the person to be the best expression of themselves, I think those pillars have to be controlled and through multiple interventions, through multiple... Hormone balance, mindfulness, et cetera. And then, ultimately, that's when, for fertility, you start to see the body be able to receive and hold a child which that's another big problem nowadays. People can get pregnant but they can't [inaudible 1:19:52] can't hold the child or you start to see the person beat those longevity parameters and have a better lifespan and healthspan when all those parameters are under control.

AUBREY: One of the things. We made it to micronutrients. You're about to go into peptides. So I want to go back and open that back up, because this is something that's... There's seemingly a new peptide that comes out fucking every week. So first of all, what is a peptide? And then talk about some of your favorites?

DR. DE: I've had people come up to me and it's like, "Oh, you're the peptide guy!" Because I love peptides. Not the peptide guy but sure, you can call me that.

AUBREY: You're the peptide guy. That's the name of the podcast! One hour with the peptide guy.

DR. DE: That might work. But no, I definitely think peptides are the future. So what is a peptide, it's basically a baby protein. You got a big protein. You got a baby protein. So what's the difference between big protein and a baby protein? I'm putting it in layman's terms. So anything less than 40-amino-acids long. So you have your amino acids like Valium, leucine, glycine, all these little amino acids, anything with 40, less than 40 is a peptide, small little protein. Yes, small little protein. So that's what a peptide is, by definition. They're endogenous, they live inside of you. So you have wonderful peptides, like DSIP, delta-sleep-inducing peptides--

AUBREY: So basically, the amino acids, the protein converts into amino acids, big amino acids, and then also converts into very specific smaller amino acid chains called peptides. And those smaller chains, in their particular combination, have a particular function just like the big amino acids do. They have their own particular function--

DR. DE: Like collagen, for example. It's huge. Growth Hormone, 191 amino acids. It's huge. It's not a peptide.

AUBREY: Right. So the big amino acids have their function, but then these peptides have been discovered, as these smaller little combinations, these little keys that do more specific and maybe the big ones, like carnitine for muscles or glutamine for whatever... Glutamine does a bunch of shit for God and for everything. But the big amino acids, and then the smaller peptides... At some point, I guess people, at some point, people just discovered, hey, there's these little smaller amino acids that are endogenous. Our body produces them anyways, we have some with us. So our body knows what it is and knows how to use it. We're just giving more of it. So it's almost like a new micronutrient category, in a way.

DR. DE: Yeah, so they would be a little bit bigger than the micronutrients but yeah, you're right there. It's like the macros to the micros. That, I think would be a great...

AUBREY: It's like an adjacent category. You can almost look at it that way but they're just even more targeted, perhaps. A lot of micronutrients have so many different functions but these peptides seem like they're very specific. Very targeted, like arrows.

DR. DE: Yep, exactly. They know where they fit, and they know where they're going. Basically, this is also, before we couldn't see these little molecules. They're so tiny. I just mentioned DSIP, it's seven-amino-acids long. It's tiny. Like you said, growth hormone, big. And let's talk about the first peptide discovered. Just thinking here, was it the first discovered or the first one to put in us? But one of the first ones to be out there, let's say, insulin. Everybody's like, "Oh, I know that." Back in the 1930s and 1940s. So insulin, it's a peptide. That was one of the first ones, revolutionized the world. That's one of the first, to give you guys a good example of one of the first peptides but then as time has moved on, we've been able to find other peptides like let's quote a really popular one... Joe Rogan went on a podcast and talked about BPC-157 and gained a lot of popularity, which is a gut peptide, it's 15-amino-acids long. So you see the numbers are pretty small. They never go over though that 40 mark. And that BPC-157, for example, it lives in the gut. It helps to actually close the leaky gut, the intestinal permeability. So when you have breaks in the cytoskeleton, not the cytoskeleton, the scaffolding proteins.

AUBREY: So let's just give people one protocol idea, which is basically glutamine is great also for your gut walls and your gut lining, possibly because glutamine actually converts to BPC-157. It doesn't?

DR. DE: No.

AUBREY: Okay. That would be cool if it did. But anyways, glutamine good for the gut. So that's a big amino acid, over 40, and then there's then there's BPC-157, which is a more targeted function. And that's important because if you actually have... If you improve your intestinal permeability so that those bigger particles are not escaping into the blood, causing that inflammatory response, the proinflammatory cytokines that make you tired, make you fatigued, make you irritable, depressed, all of that, you can shore up your gut with just that strategy. Of course, the food you eat is very fucking important. And more extreme diets like the Peterson's diets, the carnivores and the lion and keto diet, different low inflammation--

DR. DE: It's hard to get leaky gut like that.

AUBREY: Many different diet interventions that are also very important, fasting, et cetera. But these are two things that a big amino acid and a small amino acid, you can start to do some real, real work. I've noticed a significant improvement in using glutamine supplement, and the BPC-157 that I've gotten from Biohax as well. All right, my gut is feeling less gas, less inflammation when I eat. I used to always get so fucking tired after I eat. It's like how much tobacco and coffee can I have after a meal so I don't completely crash? I'm making better diet choices, but also it just feels like my stomach operating in the right way and I'm not producing this postprandial inflammatory response.

DR. DE: It's funny. You mentioned coffee. I gave up coffee five, six months ago. I think I drank enough coffee for like three lifetimes. I was really scared because it was like oh my god, what's going to happen after I eat? Then I tweaked my protocol and bro, cruising, cruising for real. Feel great. But I couldn't do it if we weren't doing things like both you and I are doing, these interventions to optimize my body, get Marcos out of there. Everyone calls me Dr. De. My real name's Marcos. So I call myself by my real name. But if I couldn't get me out of there to my true energy... Going back on giving people a protocol, the first thing I would say is man if you can't perhaps maybe do tests to understand... I have a huge issue with gluten. There were some things your stomach didn't like either. Number one is avoiding those things but then there's awesome peptides like BPC-157, KPV, larazotide, the really, really good peptides for the gut. KPV is tiny, three amino acids. That one's a baby, little peptide which also helps a lot with, for example, psoriasis. What does that have to do? Well, the skin and the gut go together lots of times. This is where I think it is crazy in dermatology. I think it's absolutely nuts. Medicine is so compartmentalized. You are so specialized, you're the specialist of the specialist that you don't know almost nothing of the whole picture. But gut and the skin are intimately related. So when looking at a good peptide protocol for the gut, I always tell people watch what you're putting in, don't irritate the body more so. Glutamine's a great amino acid for the gut, but also then maybe consider some peptides, et cetera. Peptides are wonderful. Just be careful what the quality of peptides because one thing I will alert our listeners to, your body knows, hey, for example, growth hormone, amino acid, this one amino acid, this and this and Valium, and leucine and lysine, no, no, no, but hey, you don't belong here. This is the wrong one. There's a molecule that switched. He knows that's not the right thing. So, all of a sudden, stop the whole thing and bring in the immune system, bring in the natural killer cells. So you don't want to put peptides or molecules inside your body that are not exactly bio-identical. That's how you start cancer and autoimmune disease, et cetera, when your body starts attacking things to get these things out of the body. I have a very--

AUBREY: So don't go to your back-alley peptide dealer is basically what... If there's someone slinging peptides out of their garage, that's probably not the move.

DR. DE: No. The thing is you want to understand exactly what you're putting in your body. I have a very strong philosophy that... In medical school, they teach us something called immune-tolerance. Immune-tolerance meaning, the name says, your immune system can tolerate enough of this insult. Bullshit. No. There is, to a certain extent, but the immune system should not be dealing with things it doesn't know what it is. We've spoken a lot about, almost like Neanderthals going back into animal behavior in ancient times. What they were picking off the trees, et cetera, our bodies know what these things are, they know what broccoli is made out of. We were just talking about how the BRCA gene is sensitive to Diindolylmethane in cruciferous vegetables. The resources are put around in our environment. Now, when the body doesn't recognise those things, I personally believe that's when you wake up the immune system, and then you can start autoimmune diseases and health aberrations like cancer. So it's very important when using peptides and things like that, to use proper peptides that are properly made, not made haphazardly. It's very different than making, for example, any steroidal-type chemicals or whatever, all the way from a vitamin D, which is a steroid molecule, to progesterone. Those are actually simpler to make underground than it is actually... Proteins are hard to make. Very, very hard to make.

AUBREY: And that's the unfortunate part about peptides is that they do come with a cost. They're not covered by insurance. You have to be willing to go out of pocket, to have these advantages. Consider yourself very blessed if you can actually afford it. And, hopefully, with the economy of scale and technology getting better, hopefully, the manufacturing of these peptides will actually become cheaper and cheaper.

DR. DE: And, hopefully, the FDA giving us a thumbs up someday.

AUBREY: That's a whole process in and of itself, of course, because then you have to show that it's treating a disease. It's an interesting emergent field but if you had to say, alright, what are some... So we talked about BPC-157, you mentioned delta sleep induction pro...

DR. DE: DSIP, delta-sleep-inducing peptide, which raises testosterone too.

AUBREY: Which changes your sleep architecture, helps you get into deeper sleep. And the deeper sleep is where you actually produce testosterone, assuming that your factory is open for business. Because I can be getting the deepest sleep in the world, circa 2021 and it doesn't matter. I'm not producing any testosterone. So that's an interesting one. There's some other ones that we've tried. One of the ones that actually thought worked really well was MOTS-c, M-O-T-S dash c, but it's a fucking works really good. It's great for energy, but I get like a little bruise everywhere I put it, a little knot. It's the hardest one to inject.

DR. DE: I sent you a little video on perhaps another mode of administration, I think that'll work out for you if we do that by--

AUBREY: Is it in the butt?

DR. DE: No, it will go on your thigh.

AUBREY: It's not a suppository. All right.

DR. DE: The MOTS-c, which stands for mitochondrial-c peptide, it does amazing things. One thing it does is it up-regulates GLUT4 which is a receptor for sugar in the muscle. So if somebody's insulin-resistant, it helps them to become more insulin-sensitive. Wait, you're saying it helps them with mechanisms against diabetes? Yeah, it does. Wonderful. What it does is increases mitochondrial biogenesis. So it makes you have more mitochondria. I told you 10% of our body weight is mitochondria and it's declining as we're aging. It increases the ability for your body to produce mitochondria.

AUBREY: I want to be thich in mitochondria, mitochondria-thick. I want to get 13%. Come on, baby. Flex my mitochondria.

DR. DE: Mitochondria is the jam, brother. I think that's my coolest organelle, actually.

AUBREY: You love picking favorites. I just picked a favorite organelle. [inaudible 1:33:43] Got my favorite organ and my favorite organelle. Sorry, cytoplasmic reticulum and Golgi apparatus.

AUBREY: Well, sorry.

DR. DE: Tough luck. And then the Japanese, the longest lived population of the Okinawans, there's a phenotypic and genotypic link between the idea of them having more mitochondrial biogenesis and living longer. So when you take the peptide basically, that's when you're messing with the epigenome. You're telling that sequence in your DNA, the MOTS-c is telling that sequence in the DNA, hey, go make more freaking mitochondria. How cool is that? So that's where you're... You can take a DNA test with any of these companies and I know the CEOs of a few of these companies. I vouch for them. I use them myself. But just because it says... I'm not remembering now the name of the mitochondrial biogenesis gene. There's a few genes for that. But just because you're lacking in it or you don't have a proper expression of that gene doesn't mean... You can take the MOTS-c or you can take the SS-31, which is another really freaking awesome peptide and thus increased the ability for you to produce those mitochondria. Or say you're low on the FOXO3 gene, I remember that one, which is the one to remove the zombie or senescence cells from your body, you could take the peptide, the FOXO4, DR5, I believe it's called to allow your body to remove those senescence cells, especially if you're a big stem cell guy, you do stem cell treatments, et cetera and then later, if you want to remove some of these senescence cells or these dead cells, zombie cells, you can use the peptide if your body doesn't have the natural ability to remove those. So that's the cool part just because you have that DNA blueprint but then with a peptide I can really turn on and modulate. That's super cool, bro.

AUBREY: When I was in your office here in Miami, you guys had a chart and we didn't go over it or anything, but it was a chart, it must have been 30 different peptides on a large whiteboard. There was a bunch. It was just all of the different things. What's interesting, I think the invitation we could go through probably a lot of other ones, but just understand that there's this emergent field of medicine called peptides. And that actually, when you go in, you're going to find something for most things. For most things that you want, whether it's energy, or its weight-management or whether it's immune system or gut health, cognitive, whatever it is--

DR. DE: Cognitive, there's a bunch.

AUBREY: Whatever it is, there's something that you could dial in. Of course, again, obviously, it's a hugely privileged position to be able to afford these peptides but if you do have that luxury, and you want to prioritize that health so, of course, ideally you can be fit for service so that you can be the best version of yourself to then offer your gift to the world, that's, I think, the obligation that those of us, who have the ability, to go acquire peptides like these is to really build yourself up so then you could be of greater service to the good of all.

DR. DE: Absolutely, and again, to bring your body into the resonance it needs to be in. I'm actually wearing a patch on my chest right now. It has some silver particles here, and I'm altering the resonance of my body. I'm testing this out. This is some Italian physician that came up with this 15 years ago. I had a call with him this morning. This is not out in the market--

AUBREY: I would have figured Italian physicians, it would be gold.

DR. DE: True, they like gold. They like gold. But it's altering my electromagnetic field and thus changing the voltage-gated exchange in my cells, et cetera. I'm testing this thing out. You put it on for 48 hours, and then supposedly, my HRV lowers. I'm going to give you one and then you're going to do th HRV talk. So all that once you incorporate peptides and so forth, et cetera, to ultimately get the body to be at a peak state, for your mind to be in a peak state. Because when you're on, you want to be on and when you're off, you want to be off. The problem is, our Western civilization, the whole world now, for the most part, we take medication to try to stay on. We take medication to try to stay off and it's like in this limbo land. No man. I want to wake up and be like, "Let's go." And I want to be able to like, "No, I'm done. I feel my body naturally shutting off, et cetera." So when you're able to modulate the resources that your body's lacking, and then when you take it to the next level, and use peptides properly to manipulate the epigenome, that's ultimately where I see you're starting to have a better human experience. I'm always looking for the next tweak. They sent me this, university [inaudible 1:39:01] sent me these things--

AUBREY: Put yourself in the lab, end of warmth. See it works.

DR. DE: Oh, absolutely.

AUBREY: I think there's a lot of... I know that I've asked myself, I've asked of myself to do extraordinary things. I've been successful. I spend a lot of time thanking my body for actually allowing me to do everything that I've done. This is my dream life, it really is.

DR. DE: Amen.

AUBREY: And if I could really summarise probably the thing that I want to focus on the most is just fucking gratitude, man, like gratitude for everything that's brought me to where I am and all of the stress that I took on and everything that I did, and that my body stood by me and was there with me and got me through all of it. I had some good interventions and some break-glass-in-case-of-emergency interventions that are still hanging on, a lot of that having to do with my sleep because I was revved up at such a high RPM from producing podcasts and book and running a company and handling all of the different things that I was doing. I was always at such an RPM level that I started to use interventions like benzodiazepines to help me go to sleep, and different other things. That's also part of what we're working on is alright, let me get my full holistic health ready so that I can wake up feeling energetic, which is already working a lot better. I'm feeling great. Also, of course, giving respect to the ketamine- cannabis therapy that I'm doing, which is... I call it therapy. It's a very sacred journey to me as well but it's both. Its both therapy and sacred at the same time, allowing me to have that deep breaths and giving myself the best opportunity of the micronutrients, the macronutrients peptides. So the on is going pretty well. And then it's the off that I still need a little help with. You guys have been great at just showing me some different options that could really support that. I'm confident that while I'm here in Miami I'm going to be able to transition to a much better supported sleep protocol than what I'm doing and kick the... I take five-milligramme Valium. I just admitted I'm not proud of it. I know it's not fucking good but in stressful times, when times are hard, that put me to sleep and I was able to sleep for the past five years. Granted, I understand there's massive problems with that category of pharmaceutical intervention, massive problems, but mad gratitude again, to Pharma for, at least, having that option. Maybe it wasn't the best option, but goddamn did it helped me during this stretch, but now it's run its course. It's lived it's time and now there's better options, healthier options for the longevity of my life and that's what we're working towards.

DR. DE: I take that so sacredly. Number one, that's super cool you talk about that. You're just such a real dude, bro. So that's super cool. I take it sacredly too, to get us through that road, of kicking that to the can and I say oh, it's because I like to take that dive with the person that we're working with. There are better options, and more natural options, and to modulate those GABA pathways. That's where, basically, that system is working on. But it's what I always tell people and I think I told you this in the beginning. That off button, and even the on button too, to bring the body back to that homeostasis, to that Spartan, that caveman, whatever the heck... In my head, I think of it that way. I'm like, "How was the human meant to function?" It takes a minute. It's like weight loss. It's like when you see somebody lose weight, et cetera, and so forth. The chemistry is changing and as the chemistry is adopting... I mean, look, your red blood cells, they live for 120 days. Sometimes you need all those cells to die. Your gut lining is brand new every two weeks. Those cells, those chemical processes, even the neuroplasticity of your brain, those things take time to change. And as they're changing, that's when, effectively, you start to see improvement and improvement and improvement and we start to see reversal and epigenetic clock... [inaudible 1:43:39] slowing down, trying to say reverse, slowing down of epigenetic clocks. Utimately, I have faith, like we've successfully done multiple times where we get people to sleep right, we get people's wakefulness right, and that's why I gave up the coffee too because I want to put my money where my mouth is because that was the only thing that I was still–

AUBREY: I've obviously gotten off all my medication that I used to help me sleep and all other... I don't really use any medication during the day. It's all nighttime stuff. But I do regular Ayahuasca sits and you cannot, you just cannot mix ayahuasca with pharmaceuticals. Do not, under any fucking circumstance do that. It's very dangerous from both a physical-biological level and a psycho-spiritual level. It's extraordinarily dangerous. So I get off. It's tough but I do it because I know I have to do it. Because I have to do it and I'm committed, I'm going to Costa Rica; Maestro Orlando Chunjandama is flying from his village, got to fucking do it. So I just do it. I've done it probably five times, at least. That's about how many Ayahuasca trips I have. So it'll be for a couple of weeks, and it'll be a little rocky at the start and the first night will be up and down. It'll feel like maybe three or four, hour to hour and a half naps throughout the course of a night where I'm up and down. Then the next day, it's a little bit better and I sleep a little longer, sleep a little longer. Then every time I'm like, "I did it, I'm off." And then one of those nights will come where my mind is just spinning, spinning, spinning, and I got a podcast in the morning and a meeting coming up after that and it's starting to creep up to 3:00 a.m. and I'm like, "Fucking A. If I don't sleep today, I'm not going to be able to be sharp on this podcast. There's hundreds of thousands of people that are going to listen to this podcast. I have to be at my best, I owe it to the people. I got to take this, I got to take this thing." I don't know if that's me just rationalizing and justifying it. But there is some practicality to it. But it's always been the thing that's got me back on the old broken way. And I really just want to break that for good and just trust myself that even if we had to do this podcast today, and I didn't sleep well last night, I have figured it out, I can trust my brain, I can trust my body, it may not be comfortable. So I guess the message is a pep talk to myself to have a little more endurance, have a little more Spartan of, all right, I'm just going to fucking deal with this and I'm going to stick to it. That will. That's definitely something that's going to be necessary to make the path because rolling, tossing and turning in bed is not fun, but you just have to endure it.

DR. DE: I think like with what we're doing also my goal and what I've seen happen plenty of times before, as your chemistry is improving, all of a sudden, you start to be like, "Hey, maybe I don't need to take this thing." It actually becomes easier. And yeah, sure, you've had moments in the past like, "Yeah, it's 3:00 a.m. I got a podcast tomorrow, I got a busy day, et cetera, what am I going to do? I need to rest. But if you're feeling optimised like when got on the testosterone like, "Whoa, my life is 2.0..." The testosterone does that kick pretty hard. But as we're optimising your body, et cetera, it'll become easier for your body not to need a crutch to stay awake. For example, in my DNA, it says, I have a high propensity for daytime sleepiness. Super high. That's why I said the coffee thing was so big for me. And I could feel it. And then I had insulin-resistance years ago, et cetera where I was just exhausted out of my mind. I never had a sleep problem but it was just like, "I went to med school, man." I'd sit there seeing double, the lady, professors and so forth. I struggled with. So that was a big thing for me. I'm like, "Okay, how do I wake the hell up during the day? How do I not yawn during the day?" I asked this to clients all the time like, "How many times are you yawning today?" "Yawn? I'm supposed to yawn?" Sure, if you're in this deep parasympathetic state on a beach, relaxing, out on a boat, here in Miami, whatever, yeah, sure, it's normal for you to yawn and just relax, but on a workday when you're going, you're in the office, and you're like... That's not normal. No, it's okay. No. It's okay to take naps during the day. No, you're not supposed to do that.

AUBREY: You can, if naps going to help you. I think Nick Littlehales, I've cited his book, he's one of the sleep experts... I'm actually a fan of naps but the fact that you can, and that you need it is a different thing.

DR. DE: Exactly. [inaudible 1:48:47] Story. Saturdays are like my unwind day. We usually with family or whatever. Sometimes you can catch me napping and my wife's in the lap or something like that. If I'm doing this podcast with you, and I'm thinking about taking a nap right after because I need it...

AUBREY: Yeah, that's what we want. We want to be able to just live the fullest version of our life. Life is so spectacular. You have to put some energy into it. And you have to have the right mindset to access it. If you can do that, we're in fucking paradise. This is heaven if you're able to do that. Yeah, I know there's challenges and I know it's difficult situations for people and there's wars and there's all kinds of hellish states. All of that is granted, but the possibility of what the Earth can provide and what our body can access, the taste, the smells, the sense, the pleasure, everything that's available to us, it's spectacular. We just need to get ourselves in the state where we can access it.

DR. DE: Absolutely. And getting to that state, getting to that state is one of my main things. It's like when people ask me, "What do you do at Biohax?" I'm like, "Performance and longevity, man." That's the main goal. Want to get a performant, highest state possible and live as long as I can. I want to die late, as young as possible.

AUBREY: Let's go. Let's go.

DR. DE: Die late as young as possible. That's the motto.

AUBREY: I'm going to keep people posted. This has obviously been the most I've shared about my own medical history and, obviously, we have fertilit. That's going to be an ongoing theme. We got my sleep that'll be an ongoing theme. I'm looking forward to it. There's a peptide called kisspeptin that I heard is really great for fertility when we're actually trying. We're going to bring that in. Right now, we're just getting the factory reopened.

DR. DE: Which may be open.

AUBREY: Which it might be opened.

DR. DE: Don't be surprised. "Oh, I baked the cake. Sorry." I didn't mean to. I'm ait for that text message [inaudible 1:50:59]. I really am.

AUBREY: I appreciate both the availability of all the different solutions. Of course, my background, founding Onnit, targeted supplementation is something that we've brought in... We've brought some of our formulas through clinical trials. I know that side, and I don't want to leave that out of the conversation. I'm just bored of talking about it because all I've been talking about is targeted supplementation for a long time. So don't think that I'm like... Now that I've sold Onnit and whenever, I'm like, "Supplementation's bullshit and we're on to peptides." No, every fucking day, I'm taking my... You look back at my cabinet there, it's all of the products that we designed at Onnit because they're fucking amazing. Alpha BRAIN, Shroom TECH, the whole gamut.

DR. DE: I take Alpha BRAIN every once in a while too. I love that stuff. And even compared to some really strong peptides, even compared to some really strong peptides, especially for stunning, I'm like, "Well, I can actually feel this thing working."

AUBREY: So just want to put that out there that we didn't talk about it much, again, because I'm fucking bored of talking about. I wanted to talk to you about other stuff. But that's a huge part of my life. We wouldn't be here if it wasn't for... It wasn't like we were in the back of the car. There's other doctors that I know who have peptides and different things. We wouldn't be sitting here now if it wasn't for that conversation we had ,not about peptides and not about all the techniques but about energy and about this kind of holistic picture of how to live in the fullest human expression. I just really honor and applaud you for holding that while simultaneously holding all of the medical knowledge that you have. I think that's really the future of health care.

DR. DE: Amen, man. And thank you for believing in me. Thank you for that conversation. I felt that too. When we had that conversation, it was the second conversation that night, I felt like I connected with you there too. I'm like, "I know what this guy's about." I resonated with you. And so just thank you for believing in me and for having me on your podcast most of all. I appreciate you, brother. Gratitude.

AUBREY: We're on this journey together. Gratitude.

DR. DE: Amen.

AUBREY: Gratitude. 2023, the year of gratitude. Let's go!

DR. DE: Let's go! Thank you, man.

AUBREY: That was awesome, brother. Thank you everybody. Thanks for tuning into this video. Make sure you hit Subscribe. Follow me, @aubreymarcus. Check out the Aubrey Marcus Podcast available everywhere and leave a comment. Let me know if this video resonated or what else you would like to hear from me in the future. Thank you so much.