The Warrior Ethos Of An Astral Traveler W/ Hamilton Souther | AMP #389

By Aubrey Marcus November 23, 2022

The Warrior Ethos Of An Astral Traveler W/ Hamilton Souther | AMP #389
A prerequisite for shamanic healing is having the ability to create a protected space in which the healing can take place. Maestro Hamilton Souther is a veteran ayahuasquero who has spent decades in the amazon training these specific set of skills. Skills that include both healing and defending the healing space from dissonant or malicious energies. In today’s podcast, we talk about the nature of consciousness, and the imperative of having protective skills when working in depth with plant medicines.
Connect with Maestro Hamilton Souther

HAMILTON: Are the defensive arts separate from the healing arts? Well, not really. There's no place to heal unless you have the defensive arts. It's like, go to society and think whether you can have an operating room if there are no police and no rules, and nothing governing who goes into the operating room or not. You don't have an operating room. In consciousness, it's exactly the same. In the psychedelic space, it's exactly the same. You want this big, beautiful space to be able to do this big, psychic, elaborate surgery, healing thing, and it just gets bombarded by everyone's shadow. Everyone who's there, shadow, will just start corrupting that space and putting all different kinds of codes going through it, like all these different TV channels of different energies that have no place being there. So, you have to somehow be able to create a boundary around the nature of that space so that somebody's consciousness can be in that space and receive from that space the way it was designed and created. So, I just think it's naïve the way people are talking about this.

AUBREY: Maestro Hamilton is a veteran ayahuasco who I've had the pleasure of sitting in many ceremonies with over the years. He's really the first person to open up the field of ayahuasca as far as what's actually happening between the intershaman dynamics that's going on in the jungle. And he knows very intimately about those dynamics because he actually found his lineage, because he experienced some of the dark magic of the shamanic arts. And I've told the story about how my former fiancé, Whitney Miller, actually also experienced some dark magic at a place that I wasn't there with her. And how Hamilton and his teacher, Maestro Alberto, who came from the lineage of Maestro Julio actually healed, and I know it's unbelievable to imagine, but actually healed Whitney in front of my eyes, reversed some of this dark magic. So, I've seen him at work. And we've had these discussions, which are wildly illuminating. And also, I understand completely sound like we're in a "Star Wars" movie or something. And so, I brought him on again for this podcast, because I wanted to go a little bit deeper. It's been a while since we saw each other in person. Exploring the nature of consciousness, he's one of the few people that have that level of experience. And also the ability to articulate the wild, ineffable that you do experience in psychedelic medicine. And also to talk about the necessity to be warriors of consciousness in a way. Not so much that you're looking to pick a fight, but that you're prepared for whatever energy you might encounter out there, and how to transcend the fear, and create a safe, protected space. And I really appreciate Hamilton for that. So, I hope you guys get a lot out of and enjoy this podcast with Maestro Hamilton. Maestro Hamilton, we're back.

HAMILTON: We're back. Aubrey.

AUBREY: Yeah, it's been a minute, man.

HAMILTON: It's been a long minute.

AUBREY: Yeah. It's good to see you. It's really good to see you.

HAMILTON: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

AUBREY: Some wild shit's been going on in the world since we last saw each other.


AUBREY: And what we were talking about is it's I think, overall, there's lots of different ways in which this has affected our daily lives and our centers. I say our, but your center and different ways in which the structures have changed because of that. But the biggest change for me was just the meta framework that now it's go time, this feeling like, okay. Kind of what we've been training for our whole lives is now coming to bear. Now, it's time to, yes, always keep learning, keep growing, but it's a little bit of take what you got, and start putting it to use in the world. Because it's time.

HAMILTON: Yeah, I mean, I agree. The last series of ceremonies we did, it was clear that it was mission on. It was definitely go time. And the last years have shown us why.

AUBREY: Yeah. Yeah. You said that, a long time ago, one of the things that you taught me is there's two primary forces; love and delusion. And I think that language always stuck with me as really important, because I think there's a way in which you can make the darkness or whatever you want to call it as real as the love. And if you do that, you're just in mortal combat forever. But when you actually realize that's all just delusion, a distortion through a prism, then you actually understand the whole construct in a different way. So, help people kind of like unpack that concept of the idea of love, as the universal force, and then delusion as the opposing force, and what that kind of means to you and how that's potentially evolved over the decade.

HAMILTON: I think in that context, love is synonymous with source. Love is meaning everything but as a whole, in its totality. Not piecemealed, not separated, not Hallmark card, not I love my mom, or I love my wife, or I love my girlfriend or whatever. It's everything. It's the totality of the universe, the force of creation, this idea that there is no opposing force in absolute truth in that instigating capacity to create. Just the universe started creating, and it has not stopped. It's creating right now, it's creating through us, it's creating this podcast, it's creating everything that's going on in the world. And then the delusion comes in sometime in our history, where we start to take our ideas, and we use the mind and we use the imagination to create thoughts that are just fundamentally not based in fact anymore. We use shapes, and we use symbols, and we use concepts and colors and beliefs and tradition, all wrapped around it. And it becomes literally delusion. But it's so real to us, it's so palpable, it makes so much sense to us, that we don't see that it's no longer representing just that pure force of creation. And we're involved in it, we're in the middle of it. And so, that delusion isn't independent of humanity. It's being created by humanity. It's fueled by source, but it's being created by us. And the biggest delusion of all is the us versus them concept within it. And that's truly the root of all evil in that delusion is that there's some other them to be having that conflict with in the first place.

AUBREY: Yeah, it's a myth of separation at the very root of the story of delusion. And actually, the creation of delusion, the genesis of delusion itself requires separation. Once you have separation, then you have rivalrous conflict with win those metrics, and good, bad, and all of this understanding, which is real in some dimensional reality, and also delusion. The farther you go all the way up to truth, then at some point on the train, you find the spot where you notice the delusion. But you have to understand kind of the multi-dimensional nature of a thing.

HAMILTON: You get lost in fear along the way. And as soon as you get scared, you refract, you pull away from just being in the flow and being part of this natural state of consciousness. And thought starts to just like, sonar pinging off of that fear into that place of delusion, and it just blows out. It's immediate, it's total, it's overwhelming, it's all encompassing. And then what do you do? Most people live in it all the time. And so, when they're driving their car they're in it, when they go to bed they're in it, when they dream they're in it, when they wake up and have their coffee they're in it, they're brushing their teeth in it, they go to the bathroom in it, and they don't have an out. But through different psychedelic work and ceremonial work, you can see through that delusion, and you can say, oh, okay, all I need to do is calm down, I need to go to my source of love, I've got to go back to my epicenter. And we used to teach that through the heart. I mean, we still do but...


HAMILTON: When we first started talking about it, we'd say it's through this gateway, not through the brain gateway. So, go to the heart where the heart doesn't have the thoughts themselves, and literally turn it off. And actually, in the last week of ayahuasca sessions I was doing, we got into this situation where there was a lot of that at play. A lot of the guests that were there were really interested in exploring that delusion. And they were feeling like--

AUBREY: It's fascinating.

HAMILTON: Oh, dude, they were feeling something was missing for not doing that. Because the first ceremonies didn't have any of that in it, I kept all of that out. And then they're coming to me going, "But I heard all these stories that it's supposed to be like" and they started comparing. And I'm like, okay. So going into the third ceremony, I let them turn it up, right? Dude, it became chaos in seconds, and stuff like that. And then after that, I just literally turned it off, reset the entire ceremony, and then just started giving these commands, just to turn ego down, turn fear down, turn the delusion off, awaken source, awaken the inner source, and then turned all of the medicine back on in the ceremony. And it was basically instantaneous. And it just showed that delusion's coming from us, and most of us are into it like cotton candy.

AUBREY: And it almost feels like in order to get something of value, maybe it's this puritanical work ethic mindset, or this other idea, like if there's going to be anything of value, it's got to be hard. So, if you're going to actually learn something, you've got to go into the deep shit in the shadow work. It can't be the love and bliss path. It's kind of a wild thing, because that idea is a self-fulfilling prophecy. And you see that in relationship work and all kinds of work where it's like it's got to be hard. It's the pain that's the teacher. It's like, yeah, it is a great teacher. Sometimes it's the only teacher that's available. But if your goal is to get to love, ecstasy, bliss, beauty, why not learn from love, ecstasy, bliss and beauty? Of course, wouldn't that be your teacher if that's where you want to go?

HAMILTON: I always thought you've got to deal with the hellish stuff in heaven. You don't want to go deal with it in hell. You're already in hell, you don't know how to deal with it there. You want to go deal with it in the nicest place possible. So, I was like, you've got to create the heaven health spa. You have all the helpers in there. You got to be completely relaxed and chilling, you're getting a foot massage. That's when you deal with your shadow.

AUBREY: That's what I'm saying.

HAMILTON: I'm not dealing with my shadow in the shadow. It is the shadow.

AUBREY: I want it in this sex temple.

HAMILTON: I'm sure you got that. I'm sure you've already figured out what...

AUBREY: That's the move. That's the move. I'm totally with you. And so, what's interesting too, all of this is riddled with so much paradox. Because in some real capacity, there are forces that are looking to push forward an agenda of top down control, increased separation, increased chaos, right? Actually, it feels like, whether it's just like wanting to create, like the natural reproductive impulse of delusion itself, trying to reproduce itself. But it feels like there is this force that's actively undermining our efforts that feels very real. But as we said, you keep zooming out. And then you see that that's actually just a catalyst for growth, and part of Eros, the love, beauty, intelligence of the cosmos, always moving through us in this constant evolution that you could call love as well. So, I think it's difficult and also important for people to understand that sometimes you have to deal with things in a multi-dimensional way, when they have multi-dimensional aspects.

HAMILTON: Yeah, first, unpacking the idea of this top down control matrix, that's been in play in our mythology for 25-30,000 years, 40,000 years. That's not a lot of time if we think of Earth's history, but for human history, and for what we know of as being modern humans, that's an unbelievable amount of time. And so, if we start to create that together, we can make that real, we can make that into something that truly exists in its own right. We have the capacity to be able to create entities, we create corporations. They're corporate entities in their own right. And so in that way, we've given life and energy so much to that idea of that matrix, it's now real, and it's something that we need to look at. It doesn't mean that it's universally true, it just means that it now exists. And that becomes part of source, it becomes part of something that maybe we will have to ultimately deal with and unwind. You see it in families, like young parents who immediately have their first child, and then all of a sudden create that matrix within their house. Their house had almost no rules, now they have a kid, and now the whole house has rules. And there's very little latitude or leeway to deal with it. The inter-dimensionality of it is really built into the construct of how we create that delusion in the first place. So, we create a delusion and a refraction in fear. We step away from just innate reality, we step away from trust, we step away from love, we step away from something that's greater than just our individual life. We make everything temporal. Everything becomes past, present, future. Everything becomes this very, very finite amount of time that relates only to the body. This unbelievable fear associated with that. And then all the manipulations on top of that. Where that control matrix is being made is inside our brains. That's the thing that people don't really realize. They want to externalize it, but it's not. It's inside our brains. And if you look at our society, where we have checks and balances, those checks and balances are built in to the thought matrix, and literally everything. So, everybody is within that same control matrix. There isn't anybody in our society that's ultimately free from it, that's just walking around, free swinging, however they do it.

AUBREY: We can't be if we understand the connected nature of who we are. We're all in a shared connected field. So if it exists, we are in contact with it, we're sharing with.

HAMILTON: That's why I said we're going to have to deal with our creation. So, we have to unwind that delusion in that interdimensionality. And that's something that we can do through sacred plant ceremonies or ayahuasca ceremonies, because you can get in there and you can unhinge the fixations, and uncouple those fixations that make that. All of a sudden, instead of something so constricted, that you can't move it, you can't break it, you can't see beyond it, you can awaken it to being able to engage the field, release the fixations, open up and be able to see beyond those delusions. You wake up from the delusion, almost seems silly, and it's sad, and it's kind of crass in a way. But it seems silly when you see how simple the delusion really is, when you wake up from it. And how little time it takes. It takes from like that. And the brain just goes click. That is an interdimensional expression. When we look around us, we think we're seeing the world but we're actually seeing the reflection of light, and we're seeing it inside our minds. It's a wild thing. We think this space around us is what it really is. But it's only a tiny, tiny bit of what it really is. We make it beautiful, decorate it, change it up, put different shapes in it, different colors in it. But all of that's just stimulating our brains. When you open up beyond that, you realize that this is the interdimensional field. Our mythology lives within it, the entities that are associated with it live within it. What we see inside our sacred plant ceremonies lives within it. The fears that everybody has, that you see propagated on the news, and by all different kinds of top down organizations, live within it. And it's just of that matrix. And it's our decision, what we're going to ultimately do with it, which is why I think it's time for the real mission to be on, which is, to evolve us to the next level beyond the need for that.

AUBREY: It reminds me of the first principle of the Kabbalah and the hermetic principle. All is mind, the universe is mental. And this understanding of how inextricable the understanding of the universe is with the understanding of our mind, and how our mind is constantly an aspect of what we understand the universe to be. It's inescapable for us to really grasp anything without the interface of our mind, which is containing in some way and mapping and mirroring the universe, and actually, the story of the universe and the perception and the codification of all of it, is required in this larger mindscape. And then, I think that also is what allows us to understand and open the possibility for magic, what we would call magic. When we realize that our mind is inextricable from the cosmos itself, as we change our mind, and set our mind to another thing, the universe becomes far more malleable than the Newtonian causality, which if it's a strong story, of course, exists, and it's real. But however, you can start to maneuver in these different ways, either from mental alchemy, which is the simplest form to actual very strange occurrences that can happen synchronistically with weather and, and coordination with animals and wind. These things that traditionally would be found in fairy tale books, or fantasy novels.

HAMILTON: When we were out in the Amazon, what we were seeking was to try to prove all of that. We were trying to actually find ways to prove whether any of the mythological context had enough power to do something about what seemed like an earth that had gone in a desperate direction, and how you would try to create a force strong enough to be able to, kind of course-correct along that way. And what we ended up figuring out was that it wasn't about a movement outward, it was about going so inward, that from the inside, you end up being able to find infinity. So, it wasn't trying to find infinity out there. It was, go so inside you that you could find the infinity that was in your matter. And it would make us question over and over again, how much of us was really the matter? Versus how much was the matter just an anchor for the rest of us? And then we had to go explore what was that rest of us. And that's a wild course as well, through delusion, and justification, and desire, and trying to figure out how all of that kind of plays itself out along the way. But really, we found that you find the infinity from within, then you start to explore beyond. And it's like piercing the veil of physicality of the matter beyond us. I mean, when we're fixated on ourselves, and we're looking out at this incredible view, the Earth looks huge. But if you get really far away from Earth, like just the rings of Saturn, Earth looks smaller than a pea. It looks like smaller than a drop of water. From galaxies further away from that, you can't even see it. It's almost nothing. And so, I think when we go deep inside ourselves, that's where we actually find out how big we can really be, and how much more of us is beyond the mind, which is really like an encapsulation and a codification like you mentioned, of that totality of that energy. But you move beyond those codes as well, and you move into sort of universal sets of codes, interdimensional sets of codes, you move beyond the mythology, you move beyond the entities, and beyond the beings that hold together our story, all of a sudden space time relativity scale, they all disappear. The purity of consciousness is still there. You're still alive. You still know it. But you have no determined spacetime, there is no Newtonian physics. Newton's long gone. He's just an ancestor at that point. The science that people are doing now is trying to prove the things that you're tapping into, and actually using to have that experience. And then in that space, you do realize that there is a field. It's not just you and emptiness. It's not just you. In fact, there's no way to tell where the beginning of that field is and where you are within it. You are of the field and it is seamless.

AUBREY: Yeah, call it Eros, call it Shekhinah, call it the Tao. Just different flavors of the field that have kind of permeated our understanding, but are very difficult to actually have gnosis of until you've actually felt the field in some way. And, I think that's always... It's interesting, you can have all this philosophy and theory and whatever, but without the plants, or without some practice, or some wild Satori experience, where you just happen to snap into a state of consciousness, which certainly can happen, and there's many ways. And we just had a unbelievably powerful breathwork experience where people shared experiences of merging with the field, through the potentially endogenous DMT released through the breath work, which has now been shown in clinical research as part of what's happening. Great documentary called "DMT Quest" that showed some of these mechanisms, and actually tried to hint that DMT was part of what created our understanding of reality, and helped us make sense of this universal field of energy was actually DMT. It was creating our reality. And so when you add more, it actually shows you an even like a deeper reality behind what it's been creating. But until you like have that felt experience, it's very difficult to like really even come close to grasping it.

HAMILTON: It's all intellectual at that point. What are we talking about when we talk about the field? We're talking about space time. What people call space time. We're talking about the universe. And then you have to ask, well, where did the universe come from? At the level of field, it doesn't have an origin. It doesn't come from anywhere. And it's creating where itself, so kind of inside out all of the ways that we feel cut off and separated from it. If we haven't had those experiences, we have to ask ourselves, why? What has kept us from having those experiences? Why are we returning to the plants that taught us the origins of culture from over 50,000 to 100,000 years ago? Why do we actually have to go back into the plants to be able to regain that understanding of connection? I think it ultimately comes down to linguistics, and the ways that language has codified or our use of language has codified the mind. So, we have now this idea of separation interwoven into absolutely everything. And that's part of control.

AUBREY: Language is just chopping things into little pieces all the time. All the time. And making little boxes around everything. Even when I say boxes, it's making a box. You can't escape it. We can't have a podcast without a million little sashimis we're making of reality absolutely all the time, like fucking hero dreams of podcasting. That's what we're doing here.

HAMILTON: It's the tool we have right now. But we do have tools at our disposal that go beyond that. That's a beautiful thing. Like you mentioned, breathwork. There's a number of different tools we have. Meditation, but then when you get into the sacred plants, what's so amazing about them is how fast it can be. It's the accelerant. And it's not that it's a race to enlightenment. Because, on the integration side, it can take years to ultimately deal with certain experiences that we have inside ceremony. But it's an accelerant to being able to have the experience so that these concepts that we're using, and the sashimi are actually palpable. It's something that we can relate to--

AUBREY: And we can enjoy this sashimi.

HAMILTON: Why not?

AUBREY: It's almost like what I find is, the farther I go out, the more I enjoy being in.

HAMILTON: It's a gift.

AUBREY: That's the real gift of it. And you go out, and you straighten a deep story. And, we're here with my brothers, Kyle and Erick, some of my soul fam and fellow journeyers, in all of the different medicines, in all the different ways. And, they've encountered things that haven't particularly bothered me. I haven't found myself in those realms. But nonetheless, and I'll talk about this a little bit, I was in a Temazcal ceremony yesterday with a really potent medicine woman named Weider. And she's also a great musician. She's out here for our Fit For Service Summit. And we're in the black of the sweat, and she has her drum, and she's singing these exquisite lodge songs, and we're offering our prayers. And it's hot as hell, it's 220 degrees out there, and the water's getting poured. It's like a womb space, but it's a very uncomfortable womb space, and you start to feel like you're in a prison. It's black, it's confined. You can't go anywhere, and somebody else is in charge. In this case, the feminine was in charge. And this clear vision came through. Then I had this connection of, oh, this is either a prison, I'm stuck here in this 220 degrees sweating. I can't leave, I mean, I could. I could force my way out. But that would break the container, and also be extremely embarrassing to my friends if I was the one like, "I'm outta here, guys."

HAMILTON: Rolling out.

AUBREY: Yeah, that'd be tough. They wouldn't look at me quite the same way for a while. That'd be a tough one to go beyond. So, here I am, I'm in this. And then as soon as I connected to an even deeper prayer, and an even deeper gratitude, and love and felt like... I felt the mother again, felt the heartbeat, and the pulse of cosmos, of Eros, or the womb, I realized that the prison actually evaporated. And it gave me this vision of the very first prison we've ever been in, is the womb, same thing. Black, you're stuck, you can't go anywhere, and you're subjected to the control and the whims of the mother.

HAMILTON: For sure.

AUBREY: But we never thought of the womb as a prison, because we were always connected to the heartbeat of the mother. So, all we felt was that connection, that constant connection. So in our mind, that never was a prison, even though we could look at it now and be like, yeah, that was the fucking tightest prison I've ever been in. It's the tightest fucking spot. And, this reality that all it takes to change where you are from what could be a prison, to actually heaven, which is where it ultimately I was able to step into, was just feeling the heartbeat of the mother, feeling the heartbeat of the womb. And then all of a sudden, this prison was just this infinite playground where vision started to come, and where my heart could actually sing a prayer that was true, in a voice that was true. It was a gift. And so, it's just this, this turning of a story, was really all it took to kind of pierce what was in that case, a delusion of a prison into a truth of, actually, if I'm connected and connected to Weider, who's leading the lodge, who's the Divine Mother in that case, connected to my own Divine Mother, my own heart, here we are in heaven. And that was just this beautiful example of how just a story can change, and the whole experience changes with the story.

HAMILTON: In that experience, where was it that the mind shifted?

AUBREY: It shifted at the... I think the mind has to create... It's only able to operate through story, story of past, present, future. Story of an understanding, a codification of reality. And so, in the reality where I can't go, I can't escape, it's dark, I'm uncomfortable, I'm confined. And you start focusing your attention on that, then it was a prison. And then the story shifted. It's like, oh, here I am in the womb again. And here I am with the Divine Mother, in me, and also represented by the leader of the lodge, the Chanunpa carrier, who was holding it and singing. And then just once I felt connected, that story just evaporated. And yeah, it was still hot, didn't change. It was still hot. But the whole story changed, and then everything changed. My shoulders relaxed, and everything. A smile crept on my face. And the whole thing kind of shifted. And the same thing can happen in medicine, where you find yourself in a place, and then fear starts to come in, you start to have all of these ideas of all the dangers that it could be there. And then all that needs to happen is you just connect back to source, back to love, back to the heart. And the whole thing is just changed, and the prison walls evaporate. And you find yourself in a blissful field.

HAMILTON: When you were in the visions themselves, did you experience heat at that time?

AUBREY: The answer is, of course, there was some part of my body that was experiencing, but I wouldn't have called it heat. It would actually be a lie if I was to say that that was heat. It was just the substrate of the heaven that I was in. And in that substrate, it was just, there's just this kind of radical acceptance for what it was. So, all of the ways that heat is its own little pieces, sashimi was fucking changed. So, I wouldn't have called it that actually. it would be a lie. Because what I would have called heat a minute before was not the same thing that I would have called it then. You'd have to use a different word like warmth, but even still, it wouldn't have actually even made sense.

HAMILTON: Yeah. I ask that because there's this moment where the brains running on the language that it uses during the day. And it's hot, and it's tight and it's a prison and it's confined. And then there's a moment where the brain does something different. It's a shift in consciousness. No one really understands what is the trigger catalyst when, why, for each person, but it's a commonality amongst pretty much everybody who's had these experiences, that the shift takes place. And when it does, the context that was there before changes. So, all the things that were causing the problems before are not the same anymore. And it's different every time. But that's why I ask about the visions themselves. Because when I've been in those situations, when the visions really kick on, everything that was the context that was creating the difficulty before the visions always vanishes. Whether it's in ayahuasca, it could be nausea, it could be that feeling you just hold bodies at rapid boil, you just can't breathe enough, or you realize you're hyperventilating. Or it's in a sweat, where it's just like you said, just way too hot. Just so hot. I've been in those before where you're just thinking, "My God, is there a way out?"

AUBREY: I actually don't think it's a good sweat unless there's at least some point where you're like, fuck it, I don't know.

HAMILTON: During the day and there's no exit. I remember when I was in this sweat, and they put me on the opposite side of the door. So I could see the door, but the rocks are between me. There was no way I was going over the rocks. It just seems so far away. Until it got hot enough, and then that trigger happened. And then all the visions started, and then it wasn't hot. But I remember in one of those visions, these buffalo robes are put over me. And I was like, "You cannot put buffalo robes over me in the vision. It's already too hot. You can't add robes." That was going to be too much. But then ultimately, it was okay in the nature of that itself. That was happening last week in the ayahuasca ceremonies where we were going really big, but we weren't going into chaos. We were going into this unbelievably stable space by going inward. It was very meditative, very seemed very Buddhic at first. But then as the visions turned on, it was like the body became an anchor, something that was stable. And then the visions could just grow and grow and grow and grow beyond that, and the vision could become omni directional. But in that sort of period of time, when that expansion was taking place, the body struggled. Everybody in the sessions agreed afterwards. They were like, oh, there was a lot of nausea, or there was just, it wasn't physical heat, but that kind of internal heat, and that pressure that was going on. But then ultimately, once the vision is fully turned on, then again, all of that was transcendent.

AUBREY: So, this podcast, and pretty much everything I do is made possible by Onnit. And, the great thing about Onnit is, it's a company where I created all of the best products that would support me in a holistic life, physically, mentally, through all of the human optimization technologies that Onnit offers and is available. And this ranges from kettlebells to the steel clubs, the steel maces, to the Alpha Brain, which I use before every podcast, and the Shroom TECH which I use before every workout, and the total NO that I use when I want to flex in the gym, and have a really good workout. Really, everything that I've ever wanted from a human optimization standpoint, is offered through Onnit. So, I encourage you guys to check it out. Go to and you'll save 10% off absolutely everything. And thank you for your support of Onnit which is directly support to me. Thanks, fam. Fear is such an important thing to discuss. And there's kind of in the Kabbalist Mystery School tradition that I've been studying, there's, I think it's Nachman Breslov, who kind of coined this idea, that life is a very narrow bridge. And the secret is to have no fear at all. And my teacher, Marc Gafni explains it. Like imagine that you were walking on a bridge, let's call it four feet across. Now, unless you're wildly drunk, you're not going to fall off a bridge that's four feet across, right? You can walk it, but if it's 1000 feet in the air, shit's scary. Even though it's four feet across, you got plenty of room. There's no balance beam. But imagine that same thing is on the ground, one foot off the ground, you're walking through a botanical garden, it's a four-foot path. You're not scared. And it's this idea that it's actually fear that takes something that... And when you are scared, actually, you would get wobbly. Like if it's 1000 feet up, we're not talking about wind or anything. You would get wobbly on this thing and maybe nauseous, and then actually it might even become dangerous, because of the fear itself, when actually the path is narrow, but clear. And it's fear, actually, that gives you the wobble, that makes it seem like it's actually dangerous. And that seems to be an experience that happens that I find as a metaphor over and over in the ceremonial journeys I'm in. It's like, as long as you stay with the secret, which is the secret, is to have no fear at all. You just walk straight through all of that, and you realize there's plenty of room and you're not off balance and you're good.

HAMILTON: Yeah, I think we create the fear, and we externalize that concept that something else is triggering the fear. But we create it, right? There can be a trigger, and you don't have to create fear. The fear itself is something that's innate to us. Trying to deny the fear, I think is a rejection of something that's just fact. We all know how to create fear, we can all get scared. Something can happen to us where the mind can start to come up with thoughts, and the thoughts are scarier than what's actually happening. All the what-ifs, if this happens, the coulds.

AUBREY: And the story is about what the environment is that you're in. And I think this is something that's... So, I want to talk to you, and I think this happened because you were coming, because it is like an illustrative kind of example of a place that I got in. So, I was in a deep ketamine cannabis journey, fairly recently. And I'm in this journey, and I mean, absolute, like this unbelievable merger with this kind of source field. And then out of nowhere, there's this, looked like this kind of large guy, and he had kind of street clothes on and a mask. He comes right at me, and he goes to throw like an elbow. Elbow, right across, like a muay thai elbow. And I think I kind of dodged it, or made myself invisible, so he wouldn't miss. So, it didn't like land, but it was like, "Asshole" out of nowhere. And then that being or thought was still there. And I think that's an important distinction. Like being or thought. Is it a being? Or is it just a thought? Is it just something that came through or is it a thing? And so, I started this kind of interesting kind of dance with, alright, now this thing is here. And then I started seeing all these visions of different human figures with these red zombie eyes. The being was actually making human figures with these red zombie eyes. And actually, talked about it a little bit, and then there's some different interpretations. But there was this kind of disruptive being, and there was just a little bit of fear, not much. And Vylana was actually here with me. I just leaned over to Vylana, I was like, "Hey, there's this being here." It's not benevolent, but I'm not scared of it. But here I am, and I'm in this spot. Now, my options at that time was one, just don't believe it's a being, and it will blink out of existence, and it'll just be a thought. That was option one. And I was like, I don't know if I got that in me right now to just believe it right out of existence. Because I do have this kind of understanding of entities. And obviously, all of our talks, we know that in the belief of that reality, at the very least, that reality can be very real. So I couldn't quite believe it out of existence, although I was close. And then the other option was to actually shush it out. And we've talked about some of these kinds of shamanic tools. I've actually recently gone on a cinnamon deatta, basically, based on the rose deatta that icaro led me through, which was incredibly powerful. But in the cinnamon deatta, I learned an icaro that was really strong, and allows me to call in a lot of other larger allies and forces, and I can weave it into the icaro, so structure of itself is like a culling of these beings. I was like, well, I'm going to opt with Plan B, I'm going to shush it away. Even though there was some part of me that was like, I'm pretty sure I could just not believe that this was real, and it would just disappear. But I made the choice to actually go the magical route, and shush it out. So, Vylana blew some cinnamon on me, I started singing the icaro, I called on my big allies, and we chased it off into a wormhole back into the cosmos. And, I could see it and it just left, like blinked through. It had a little comet tail, and it was fucking gone. It was out of there. Didn't really solve anything. It just kind of moved it out of my consciousness at that point, I think, because of the faith I had in it. But it brings up this interesting thing. It was unsettling to me because I don't want to always be shushing things away, fundamentally. But I also was grateful that I was able to shush it away. But I think for people who are entering the space, we all have these different, and depending on our own belief structures and ideas, there's kind of like a variety of options that are available. And I suppose a third option would have been instead of just believing it out of existence, like raising my frequency to a place, and this is something you taught me as well. Raise my frequency to a place where I'm in the field of love, source, beauty, truth, intelligence of the cosmos, in which that thing cannot exist, or at least cannot touch me. It would be like a ghost trying to take a swing at me and I'm like, "Bitch, you're not going to hit me." You know what I mean? Like here I am in love, you're not going to touch this frequency. So, what would you say I guess, to me and as me using me as a proxy to other people who are kind of journeying these spaces and presented with this similar situation? But we'll just use this specific one as an example.

HAMILTON: Yeah, I think it's very hard to differentiate thoughts from what people call entities. And it's very hard to differentiate where the mind begins and ends, and where entities would be out in a field, out in an energetic field. Think of it like scuba diving. If the fish are out there in the water, and you swim up to a school of fish, they're really there before you even got there, right? That would have to be a real entity in an interdimensional field. Hanging out in some form of creation, there'd have to be some story about how that energy took that shape and formed it sometime in the past. It would have to actually be real, not just a thought coming through your own neural network, and the brain mind arranging some quantum matter to be able to make something, have a shape and make sense to you. So, from our exploration, those energies exist, right? So it's hard to differentiate, is that entity coming from me, or is it coming from somewhere else? So, whenever we come into other kinds of energies, the very first thing we do is, well, even before we get involved with them, we already have raised our vibration. And we've already called in our helpers. So you've got both. All the tools are available, right? So, you go into it first without understanding, we're going to do some work tonight. And before we even start, we're going to call all the helpers and we're going to raise our vibration, and we're going to do a little breathwork to make that real before we start, right? So, we're going to start with that. Then the next thing I want to do is I want to define the space around that thing. If that thing comes and takes a swing at me, I want to understand how it even had the opportunity to take a swing at me. I need to rethink about how I define that space. So, I'm not going to look at the space itself. So I want the space to be completely in our favor. So, it's our space. It's not their space. It's our space. So, this thing's visiting. It's like I'm visiting your place, right? That's your place. Same concept with the space. So, we define that within the space, that that's our space. In the shamanism they call it [inaudible 00:42:28].

AUBREY: And I can tell right now, just to add context to this, like that lands because I was super lazy. With this ceremony, I was hella lazy. I was like, I'm tired, fuck it, let's go... And we're going to get some quantum rest. We're just going to go in here. I'm going to surf around a little bit. I had no intention, I had no opening prayer. And I'm not advising this. Don't take my sloppiness as a permission slip. It's like, I was just lazy, and I was just kind of in a lazy, random, undefined space, and then had this thing happen. And it kind of--

HAMILTON: And that's why. Yeah, I mean, that's why. But what's important, though, this is an important lesson though. This is an important lesson. You're either ahead of the time in ceremony, or you're reacting to what happened in ceremony. And then you get ahead of it again once you have to react. So this set up a situation to have to react. So it kind of snaps you out of your reverie, right? You're floating around, everything's all good. Whoa, no, like what? There's something else in the wave. Like the sharks' now in the wave, and you wake up from your reverie in the surf. There's honestly nothing wrong with that. These are all tools and techniques for all the different possible reasons that things could happen. There's redundancies built on redundancies, built on even more redundancies. So, one is space. The next one is your crew, your posse, the beings you work with, the mythologies you relate to, the energies that you work with, you have them there too. If you do the work often and you call on them often, they appear immediately. So, they're always there for you. We worked with that years ago, and so they'll always be there with you whenever you need them. You just call them. And then there's this idea that, what's that thing's intention? I need to understand its intention. So in this case, it took a swing at you which could seem threatening, but maybe that's not really its intention. Maybe its intention was to snap you out of something. Maybe its intention was to show you something, maybe it was going to teach you something. And the reason why I asked that is because when something hits you hard, you know it. It really hits. It thunders you. And you're not okay afterwards. It's like taking a punch from a heavyweight.

AUBREY: No, it lands. This one didn't land.

HAMILTON: That's what I'm saying, right? That's the difference. So, when I hear that, I'm like, okay, I've been hit when it lands and it's like, bell got rung, now game is on, right? Cat and mouse game is on. But this was showing you something, right? And it's showing you something kind of in that field of light. So then there's this investigation that could happen. But to investigate that thing, you've got to get it into a position where you can get legitimate data on it. You need real info, right? You can ask it, "Hey, why are you doing that?" But it might not be resonating the truth at that moment, right? So that's when you can go to your other guides. And you can ask them, or you can go to source right there and be like, "What's this about?" And you start to investigate, ask some questions. But when the fear kicks in, you can't do that. Because the mind has already been triggered into something else. The fear makes us small, we kind of get pulled away. So we have to kind of drop that vibe, we've got to go back into our breath, we've got to just reground again, reset the space. And then we just started investigating. If that thing came into my space, I would never let it out of my space. I'd be like, "No, you got locked in the house." I remember I had this 220-pound Great Bernese when I was in college. And he would let workers into the house, but he would not let them out. So, like the electrician would come over, "Oh, come on in." Time for the electrician to go, "Oh, no, no, no. You're not taking your tools. No, no, you're not leaving," right? So if you've come in, now we're going to hang for a while. This thing might be like, "Oh, no, it's coffee break time." I'm like, oh, no, no, no, it's not. You're here now. Now we're going to hang out for a while. We're going to hang out, and I'm going to get to know you and understand what you're doing, maybe you're going to become an ally of mine. But if you're going to be an ally of mine, I want that punch to land better. We're going to have to work on that a little bit.

AUBREY: You can't be swinging and missing.

HAMILTON: Like, what are you doing? So, those are the things. I mean, those are all different techniques to use. And, the point of the techniques is like, the more you have, the more art you get to apply, right? The more fun you get to have with it, the more you get to dance with it, the more creative you get to be. And over the years, you just learn more and more and more, if you want to, if you open up to that. The learning process makes you have to extend more too. So, there's times when we really want to learn like training, there are times when you're just, I'm pretty good, I don't really want to learn as much. So, over time you learn like 10, 15, 20 different techniques for those situations, all of those that I mentioned would work.

AUBREY: I love hearing this, because I think it just sets a framework for different ways to play. Because even when that happened, I had the feeling. I just didn't have my multiple choice options arranged in the right way. I just had a couple of options. And so, Vy asked me, because I was like, there's a being here, and I don't think... Firstly, I wasn't even sure. I was like, I don't think it's benevolent. I wouldn't say, "There's a malevolent being," because that would have been false. So, I was like, I don't think it's benevolent given by the fact that it took a swing. And then she was like, "Well, what do you want to do?" And I took a moment and I was like, "I don't know, what do I want to d?" But now in this framework, I see, there's like many options, and almost like a layer of options, curiosities, like ways in which I could keep it there, try to understand it, So, afterwards, I talked with Eric is here in the room, from kind of like a dream interpretation perspective. And from a dream interpretation perspective, what this entity or thought form could have been trying to represent is, all of the people who online or in social media or in the public forum, tried to lob an insult at me that's untrue, that I noticed it doesn't land because it doesn't resonate with the truth, but I see it there. But I also then am aware that with the eyes that were turning red, that those different insults might not land to me, but they may land to other people who are reading the comments section or something like that. And it could have been a representation from that from like an archetypal standpoint. And if I would have had this kind of framework that you talked about, maybe that being could have actually taught me something even more about how to handle that particular energy. If it did actually, indeed represent that. Or if it was potentially an ally for that, there could have been a deeper exploration of how my own psyche and how this entity was interacting with my psyche. But again, as you said, the prerequisite is both a framework, the understanding of knowledge, and the ability to not get triggered into fear, which then puts you into this kind of fight or flight mentality.

HAMILTON: Yeah. And now that you have a clear bead on that energy, I think the thing to do is go back in and bring it into the space again. Yeah.

AUBREY: I still remember it very well.

HAMILTON: You just invoke it, and you bring it back. And now you can continue that exploration. And I think it's really interesting to mention the idea of what the collective consciousness is around a social media community, and all the different people with all the different ideas. It's no different than like an Eastern philosophical community where people are praying up different kinds of deities or demigods. You have this idea of all these people giving opinion, sharing in that opinion and creating an energy form around it. They're giving life to this opinion they've created or this mindset that they've created. And I think it's an interesting concept to explore that as well. I would go in on that. I'm going to, I'm going to go in on that and try to understand that better, because I think that's just fascinating to think that a whole community, including all the positive and negative opinions that come through it, could actually ultimately create some kind of energy form that could then navigate through the collective consciousness of that community itself.

AUBREY: Yeah, I think that's... It seems to me and I haven't thought of it that way. But it seems even if we haven't named a deity, a thought structure, and I think they have the [inaudible 00:50:47] because they're called Egregores, I did a podcast. Or at least that's one name call, like an aggregation of energy around a different thought concept that actually then becomes almost entity-like in its form. It desires to propagate itself, etc. And, certain ideas, they start to get momentum, and they start to become an entity or a demigod, except we don't recognize that as such, and we don't realize that there's a bunch of people worshipping at the altar of this god that they've created, that may actually act more like a demon that they've created. Or it may be a god. It just depends, and depends on how you define that and whether I would suppose one would be helpful to the overall evolution of humanity, wondering if you'd actually be undermining it. But then, what's your timeframe to understand whether it's helpful or not helpful? But yeah, it's like we're worshipping at the altar of a variety of different beings, entities, gods all the time. And I think we look back at our history, of all of the polytheistic cultures, we're like, oh, superstitious nonsense. But I remember you introduced me to Zeus, and he was real as fuck. I mean, I remember being in ceremony, and it was real as fuck. And why was he real as fuck? Well, partly because it's an archetypal energy that's real. Also, because a bunch of people put a lot of energy into worshipping and believing that and into existence.

HAMILTON: I think a lot of people want to think that for those things to be real, they had to come from something other than humans. And for me, humans creating it makes it real. So, brand consciousness is no different. To me, the modern polytheistic religion is brand consciousness. It's everybody naming corporate brands, and seeing the logos in their heads. That to me is a polytheistic religion around wealth worship. It's the same concept, just thousands of years later morphed. But the biggest one is always thinking, "Oh, that doesn't exist," right? "Oh, oh, polytheism doesn't exist. There's no truth about that." It's more like, I don't think it's that simple, guys. I think we need to unpack it a little bit. And maybe we can disprove that all of those gods or the gods that are controlling everything, maybe around some of the context of the mythology. But you can't say they don't exist. They exist as effigies, they exist as art, they exist as belief, they exist as stories. They super exist. They've existed for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. And a lot of the things that today we worship are going to be around for the next thousands and thousands and thousands of years as well. What's the differentiation between a religion versus a collective ideology that everyone adheres to and buys into, but they don't want to call it a religion anymore? Well, I think they're parsing semantics. You're kind of just pulling away some of the concepts from it, but not really wanting to just say, wow, I think we're really more in a collective field of ideology around it, than actually like a real science, or everyone having a unique autonomous opinion. I don't think that's happening at all. And so--

AUBREY: And also, if you think about, oh, they sacrificed lambs at the altar of Jupiter. Well, what do you do when you cancel someone on social media because of ideas that you have around something? Is that not a human sacrifice? At least part of the consciousness of this human being? And I'm not saying that there's not a place for actually people rallying to actually bring awareness to a brand or to an idea, but so many of the parallels from the old things that we think are superstitious bullshit, we're actually carrying that out still now.

HAMILTON: For sure. And I think if you look at what an individual is today, you bring up cancel culture, where does the being begin and end? Where does the human begin and end? You didn't just cancel their content, you shut them down. You shut down an aspect of their voice, you shut down an aspect of their consciousness. So, it's an amputation. It's, we don't like that, so let's just amputate that. Let's shut that thing down. But that is part of that person, and it's part of what they're sharing. And it's part of the community that they created around the ideas that they were sharing. I think that brings real question to the notion of freedom of thought. We supposedly have freedom of speech. But what is freedom of thought? And where do we get our thoughts in the first place to be able to understand the freedom or lack of freedom we have about our very own minds? We're using our mind all the time. Are we free to actually question? If we're already taking ideas and just throwing them away and saying, "Oh, that can't be." If we're already saying, "Oh, polytheistic religion is just completely bogus," without going into it and understanding it at all. If now most people think religion in general is bogus, maybe some certain beliefs about it are, but you can't say that these controlling paradigms around the world are bogus. They might not be factual, but they're unbelievably powerful, wealthy, huge, billion-people communities around the world. That's a very real thing, guys. I think we need to pay attention to those things, not just discount them, because we don't like the taste associated with them anymore. They don't fit well on my menu tonight, you know? Or I don't want to go and participate, right? But it doesn't mean they don't exist, we need to open up idea a little bit more about what exists and what doesn't really exist. What's the context associated with it? And what thoughts am I really able to have about that thing? If my response is a knee jerk reaction, I'm being controlled by somebody or something else. Maybe I want to know the agenda why.

AUBREY: Yeah. We see this happen all the time. I'm sure you see it happen all the time. I mean, people freeing their mind to be able to think new thoughts, and to liberate themselves from old thoughts. We did a lot of work with shame in this last Fit For Service Summit. And we always touch on this, because this is one of these anti-life energies that constricts the freedom of mind. And we always have those people who grew up in a strictly religious household of any variety of different flavors. There's many flavors that repress their natural sexual impulses in particular, like their desire to masturbate or their desire to be with their girlfriend or boyfriend in a sexually intimate way, and the feelings that are around that. And they're just moving into the freedom and the celebration of oh, my God, it's okay, and I'm not broken, and I'm not full of sin. And so it's just one concrete example of how these prison cells can be put around our actual thoughts themselves so that we cannot even link to the erotic impulse, without also this thought of shame kind of hijacking that same thought, and coding it in this kind of ochre poison that doesn't allow us to actually think freely.

HAMILTON: Just, where's our freedom? Freedom of sexuality, what's wrong with that? Literally nothing. Nothing. There's nothing wrong with it. The shame society is, I think, unbelievably controlling and powerful in its nature, because all it has to do is get you in your head to flip the little circuit breaker back on yourself. And not think, wait, that's not even my shame. That was all their shame. They taught me that shame. I wasn't born with that shame. We were all born touching ourselves. Hands are just going, hands are checking out the whole thing. There is no shame. So, where does that actually even come from? I think it's worth an exploration, especially if you experience it. I remember that growing up, just where the mind starts to kick in and wants to override pleasure. Where the mind starts to kick in and wants to override impulse. Where it wants to kick in and override just a desire to approach somebody, or even talk to them. But ultimately, that's just unbelievably screwed up. It's just unbelievably screwed up. Just that alone. You can just stop right there and say, okay, I think right there is where we bring some healing, right there we bring some openness, right there we start to work with that. And all we have to do is get the mind to learn it doesn't need to do that move anymore. We were taught that. We were taught that move to where we flip back on ourselves, and become introspective, and we become internally pained over it. And I don't think it's serving literally any of us anymore. I think that is like old code. I now call that stuff old code. I think like old code on your phone makes your phone run bad, old code on your computer makes it run bad. I just think we need to rewrite that code with something new.

AUBREY: Yeah, a whole new story. And it's time to transition from an old story in its entirety, with all of the different ways that your story weaves into that story, and strengthens it with the strand of your string in the braid of the old story. And it's not only just weaving a new string in, we really actually need a new braid, that's actually weaving a whole new story that we can move in. It's actually a leap from one story to a whole other story. And there will be bridges, you will be able to bridge some of that, and were bridging in the time between stories. But yeah, it feels to me like that's the go time that we were referencing at the start. The go time is like it's time to build that new story. And in the process of that, everything that's been supported by the old story is going to start to crumble. And as it crumbles, as with any entity structure that's in danger, it's going to freak out. And it's going to lash out. And I think we've started to see some of that, these control structures start to get, like spasmy in these kind of like death throes that you can kind of see where they're starting to lose the control that they've enjoyed for thousands of years in different forms. Empire in control for thousands of years, as people become more sovereign, more free of thought, more free of heart, more free of consciousness.

HAMILTON: Has to happen. I don't think the earth stops evolving ever. And, once humans started to create in our own evolution, aspects of the matrix that became permanent, you by doing so naturally create a scenario where there will be a cycle of evolution associated with that. So, maybe those structures worked really well to get us from one million humans or two million humans to eight billion humans. But it doesn't work well to go from eight billion humans to 16 billion humans. It doesn't work well to build triple the actual physical infrastructure. It doesn't work well to increase the amount of protein we need by something, I think it's 600 to a billion... Yeah, it's 600 million to a billion metric tons a year more protein has to be created, for sustainable food production. It doesn't work well, when you start thinking of financial systems that that boom and bust, and crumble underneath each other. These things have to ultimately evolve into something else. And they're going to. The people that think they can hold on to that forever, are wishing for a legacy that includes them not aging. That includes them not having to actually face life itself. That includes an idea that they can somehow maintain and sustain only one way of life forever. And that's never going to happen here on Earth. Earth evolves way too fast. When I first heard of evolution, I read it through Darwin's books, and concepts were there, and I tried to grasp it. And it seemed like it was a very slow process the way it was described. Sort of like the science TV shows from 30 years ago, where everything is slowly described. And I came to realize, actually, Earth is evolving at the speed of light. So, everybody watch out. Watch out. If you want to see how fast Earth evolves, think about how fast COVID evolved. Think about how we went from one concept to two to four to six to eight like in less than a year. Like just, boom, boom, boom, boom, the code of this place is changing. Its genetic code, its molecular code, its cellular code. This place is changing so fast. We're changing with it, but we don't like it, so we tell this much slower story. We count ourselves in years, decades. We give ourself this long life. You're changing just as fast. And it's happening on a cellular replicating model inside yourself. We just don't see it that way. But it's happening all the time. So, these social structures that we have created, that have imprisoned us, really mostly, in our mind more than anything, are going to evolve. How they evolve, I think that's ultimately up to us because we created them.

AUBREY: Yeah. And it's no coincidence that this acceleration is partly due to the use of accelerants, which of the plant medicines that we've been talking about. It certainly seems like things are evolving faster than they ever have before, especially on a consciousness level. And also on a social structure level, for sure. There she is. All our kitty always wants to get some attention on a podcast. That's her favorite time. But these accelerants then are accelerating things even more, and it feels like just at the right time, honestly, that all of these things are coming online, from both public awareness. I mean, we were laughing down there before about... I mean, who would have thought when we were working together 10 years ago that we would see an ayahuasca touchdown celebration on the Green Bay Packers' end zone. And a player writing in his caption, the caption saying that Lambo Tea just hits different. We would have never expected that, but that's just like a part of this culture. It's evolving, and I'm honored to be a part of that culture, because I think to me, and I've had this, I've kind of talked to different people who have their disparaging views of it. And just, my own life as an example. Like the truth, beauty, goodness, love, joy, excitement, exploration that it's brought into my life alone, just not only what I've experienced, but what it's done to my own life. I mean, what a fucking gift that we have available to us. And it's not for everybody. Doesn't mean everybody needs to go that path. But to start to just recognize these accelerants, these tools, as just what deep gifts we have to find our way out of all of these strange cul de sac dead end stories. And also, if we're not careful, put us in some other dead end scary stories that are difficult to come out of.

HAMILTON: They're there to work through. The plants are a gift. The sacred plants, the visionary plants, psychedelic plants, they go by a number of different names. They're fundamentally a gift. When you take them, you realize they're of nature, and so are you. And then there's this recognition that this goes way back. This goes way back to the origins of humans. And we typically don't think in our daily life about that. But there's a connection that goes at least a million years back with these plants. And they were part and parcel of how consciousness became what is ultimately, the positives and the traps, or the negatives of today. They've been there. There has to be a way to understand why we have all the receptors in our brains for all of the chemicals that are found within all the plants. And it has to be because we co-evolved. It has to be because we were ingesting those plants in different places around the world and sharing genetic material to make it all possible. And lo and behold, we have all the circuit breakers and all the plugs in our brain for all of these different plants and all of these different chemicals. When you isolate the chemicals by themselves, you can create a narrative that separates it from nature. And then you can create a drug narrative, you can create a negative narrative, etc. But when you just leave it in nature itself, it's just there. And it's not that the plants do it to you. I tell everybody that's on every retreat, the plants are doing just fine out there, the mushrooms are doing just fine out there. Someone came along, some human came along, actually harvested them, did something with them, prepared them and then ingested them. So I really think it's more fair to say we did it to them, not they did it to us. Once we ingested them, something happens. That to me is like a mutual exchange that starts to take place. They get an opportunity to check in and see what human is today. And we get an opportunity to expand on what human is. I think the real gift is, is the ability to heal, transform, accelerate our growth and development, expand our consciousness, awaken our consciousness, develop our consciousness all at the same time, through the journey that we get taken on with the plants themselves. And so, there's this arc that we go through. The onset, there's always a story about the onset for somebody that just had a really tough one. Some people just go in super easy, breezy, and lucky for them, right? But onset can be really tough. And then there's the, like you talked about in the sweat, where the mind is fighting, right? It's fighting its own state. And what I've come to realize is, as the state of consciousness in the brain changes, and the chemicals in the brain change, you start thinking differently. And as you start thinking differently, those are all the thoughts that come up. That's it, it's just well, I'm thinking differently. And so now I'm having all these different thoughts. If I go into doubt, then I get a bunch of doubt thoughts. If I create fear, I get a bunch of fear thoughts. If I'm mixed out in fear and a little anxiety with some... Tough bit of adrenaline at the same time, it's going to feel like speed, right? Just like, "Ah, what just happened?" Then this incredible opening happens. And that's when the visions really kick off. That's when the brain actually starts to calm down, and the body starts to calm down. It goes into the trance, it goes into the experience. And then those visions start to be enlightening for us, they show us stuff about ourselves. We see ourselves in that infinite mind hall of mirrors. We see ourselves in the space where we have all of our imagination, our imagination becomes real to us. It's not just something that's happening or something that is spontaneous. It actually becomes completely real for us. And then there's this exchange with the universe, exchange with nature and exchange with the plants that becomes incredibly teaching. And that teaching part, I think, is what's really unbelievable, because it's direct learning. And you can go in feeling one way and understanding one thing and you can come out of it smarter, better, stronger, clearer. You can also come out of it understanding wow, I'm going to need to integrate that. I'm going to need to work with that for a period of time. If you gave that that month, two months, three months to do that, you would come out of it stronger, ultimately clear, better, healed, if you set those intentions and use them in that way. And that's what I think is such a gift. Nature has always been here to help us when we've needed nature. And nature is here to help us again and we need nature now. And so I think it is a truly a symbiotic time where nature and humans are going to come back together to do something about our nature now. And I think the reason why we've become such a predator of Earth itself is because that fundamentally is our nature. We are the apex predator, just people don't like to admit it anymore. Sort of like a bad word like religion, or God, or sin, or something like that. It's like something people don't want to talk about, or sex or whatever, right? Those are bad words. Well, we're the apex predator of this planet. And now we've predated on the entirety of the planet. So, it's like, everybody, wake up. Wake up to the predator that's inside you. You've got to deal with it. You've got to learn how to deal with that energy. Call it shadow, call it whatever you want. You forage, you pick things, they die, you eat them. We've got to learn to deal with this. It could be a vegetable, it could be meat, it could be whatever. We've got to learn to actually deal with this in a very real way. And the plants are there to be able to help us now. And that's what will allow us as a global civilization to take it to the next level.

AUBREY: When you're connected, there's this kind of, and you see it in natural ecosystems where there's such a connection to the field, that they don't over predate, or there's these checks and balances. And we've become so apex that we've been able to override kind of the natural order of things, like the natural way that things were kept in balance. We have the ability to predate our world out of fucking existence. And that's why we have to really become aware of this. And it's important, it's important to find that place within ourselves, take a good look like face to face. And that was another one of my deep prayers is just to look face to face at every aspect of the totality of self. And in doing so, you see the totality of the collective as well. If you look deeply enough in yourself, you'll see all of it. And you have to look at that without flinching in order to actually be able to operate in it. And, some of the stuff is going to it's always going to be there. The desire to have some kind of conflict, it's just, it's in us. Look at all the video games we create, right? There's conflict built into the stories we like, all the stories we like on TV and in movies, the video games we create, and that can even be recreated in our ceremonies as well. I have to be aware too. So, we had a little ecstatic dance where you dress up as your shadow, and just for fun, express some part of yourself. And, I put on a furry leather hat with a big tail on it, and I was kind of embodying and I had a fake fur. I was on like a fake wolf fur spirithood. I was like, "I'm going as Genghis Khan today." Because there is a little Genghis Khan in me. I was obsessed with him when I was like 10 years old. He did horrible shit, horrible shit. But there was some part of me that liked the idea of the ride, the call of a 1000 horses, who could ride through, who is the baddest of the bad on horse. And I play that out on the volleyball court or on the basketball court. And it's just about how do we do this in a good way, in a healthy way. Not getting lost in our desire to do it, but just express it in a higher octave. And one thing you always said, that separates what can be good and beneficial and valuable to the other side, which is actually the real actual dark side, is, does it have a giggle in it? I always remember you saying that, is like, does it have a giggle in it? Is there a place where you stop and just in the heat of battle on the court like something happen, and you just kind of fucking laugh. Or in sexuality, if you're playing out a power exchange role, is there a place where you just can stop and laugh, and understand and see yourself in honesty, like we're playing a fun game here. And that's, I think, where we need to get to where exercise these aspects of self, but do it in a game. Allow myself to be Genghis Khan in ecstatic dance, and then just be absolutely generous, gracious person of the best service that I can in real life. But allow myself in that moment to snarl and howl at the moon, and feel what that feels like, and do it in a dance in this kind of context. And then put the hat away, put the coat back on a shelf, and then just go about just kind of bouncing around life.

HAMILTON: You've got to deal with every aspect of ourselves. We have to open up to everything that drives us. We have to make friends with it. We have to understand it. We have to understand our ancestors and what drove them, where they are in our stories and their mythologies, how we relate to that and what we need. If we're just peaceful and the rest of the world is going to be warring, we're going to get slaughtered. All the peaceful societies have been slaughtered by other societies that weren't peaceful. It was too easy just to pick up a rock and then a bigger rock, and then technology on technology to create a war machine so vast that it could just perfect slaughtering each other. It's just too simple for that. We have to find within ourselves a way to ultimately deal with every single aspect of what's inside us, and what our motivations are, and then learn to actually mature with that, not just have to act them out in a holistic or a total way. That's what the giggle is about, right? The giggle is about realizing that there's a crack in the darkness, or in the dominance that says, hey, there's something else going on here. Ultimately, it leads back to source where you want to say, hey, source, can you dominate yourself? You're all powerful. No, you can't. You can't loop back around on yourself and dominate yourself source, like give it up. We've got to stop the demigod gains at some point, when it becomes detrimental to absolutely everything. So, when that comes, I don't think we're quite there yet. Because right now we're playing the polarity games at the biggest level, strongest level ever in history. So they're just, they're tightening the rope. When the rope will snap, I don't know. And what will come from it, though, is ultimately I think the transformation that we're talking about.

AUBREY: Yeah. What about, for you, you spent, I don't know, a couple of decades in the jungle. You were going to battle, and we've told some of these battle stories. And, like a lot of your work, even then was about transcending the field of battle itself and getting to a new place. You called it medicine world back then, I don't know what you call it now. But you transcend actually the place where you're in contest with these other entities or energies. But like an old warrior, like yourself, and I don't mean old in that you're old or something like that. But like a veteran warrior. There has to be some part of you that maybe every once in a while, is like, it's been a while since I had a good fight. I've got all of these icaros, I've got all these allies. I've got Hank the polar bear. I've got all of these homies up here, and they like a good fight, and I like a good fight. Do you ever miss just going in there and fucking shit up?

HAMILTON: Not really, not in that sense. Not in that sense. During that time, that was life and death. And it's not a game when it's life and death, right? It's war when it's life and death. It's not just a fight, like you could die. And you know it. And fundamentally, that makes something so real, that it transcends that concept of just a battle. Like you realize you may end up on the battlefield dead at that moment. I think there's a part of you that always knows you have those skills, and you can respect those skills. And there's a place for those skills, and there's a place to use those skills. So in that sense, I think that there's still power within them, and they're still vibe. But I don't want to use them with people. I just don't have any interest in using them with people. But going and playing that out in a spiral galaxy, going and doing that with a bunch of stars, it's interesting. It's interesting the forces that are at play. The nature of the predation on Earth is about life itself, and life is a precious gift. It's not just consciousness. It's actually the life. Like it's cellular matrix, it's the self-ordering matter of Earth itself that becomes life. It's a transcendence of us being different races, and us being different creeds, different religions, and different nationalities, and realizing that we're all humans, or we're all from the same species, we're all part of the same collective group. And at some point, we don't need to harm each other to be able to be good, or to be able to fully express ourselves. There are other ways to be able to do that. So, I think that ultimately that flex that you're talking about is there. It's just, can be expressed in other ways. I don't think it ever goes away. And then of course, if there ever is a situation where there is an antagonist that really comes at you like that, it's good to know you've got the skills. You don't want to be on the other side of that until it's all gone. Until it's all gone, you've got to have those skills. You have to. I wouldn't go into any ceremony without having those skills. And if I didn't have them at the level that I have them, I would still train them. But they also don't like get rusty. You just have them. They're there, they're very well trained, right? I think the next evolution of it all, though, is about transcending the polarity within the visions where you need to use those, because other people have antagonistic consciousness. Can we deal with the antagonistic consciousness in another way? You mentioned medicine world. Medicine world was a way to be able to do that. But in medicine world, if there is antagonistic consciousness coming to us, we still took it down. It just couldn't hit us. It was just like, you're just not going to hit us, right? There's just no way, no way to harm us anymore. The goal was just get out of the harm, but it wasn't to be passive and allow harming others in their consciousness, and harming others in their practices to continue that. We just shut it down. I think there's still a part of that, because there's so much of it going on, maybe more now than ever. That there is still a need to regulate in terms of the practices and the people that are involved in it, and the way that it's actually taking place. But for us as a collective to ultimately get to the next level, we have to see beyond the polarity of each other.

AUBREY: It's interesting, because I think I can understand this from like a physical reality in which, hopefully, I'm going to have a son, and hopefully a daughter. It's my prayer, that I'm going to have one of one of both, and I think probably a lot of people have that prayer. Some people get it answered, some people don't. And I would, of course, want to actually train both of them in some basic levels of martial arts, and also how to use the tools of our time to actually protect themselves in case they needed it. But never would want them to actually use that in a way that would be bullying, or be a way that would hurt anybody. But you want to train that warrior, that kind of warrior spirit. It's not just that, of course, if you can get out of a situation, that's the best way to do it. But sometimes you can't get out of a situation. Like for example, when those four guys were around my car, and one of them took Caitlin's head, and smashed it into the side of the window of the car. There was no running away. It was like, alright, you ball your fists, and you go, and you fight until you're either dead, or you protect that which you love. And there is a situation where all of my sparring and training, which was all fun and all enjoyable, all of a sudden, it just clicked into something really real, that was just life or death. And that training came. And I think one of the things that I see in kind of the modern psychedelic context is, it's entirely for the most part based on avoidance and fear. And it feels like there's a space for potentially a bit of that warrior training to come in, which is, yes, protect yourself. Yes, set the space. Yes, avoid conflict when it's unnecessary. But I've at least enjoyed using the same kind of mindset of, I'm not trying to pick a fight, and I'll avoid a fight every time I can. But sometimes if I can't avoid a fight, I want to know that I can fight. And I don't think that's something that a lot of people talk about really, is like actually training, kind of like the warrior ethos of like an astral traveler, in a good way. You know what I mean? It's something that I think our conversation.. I remember, I called you, I'd guess, I don't know, maybe nine months ago or something like that. And I had a very specific thing where I felt something arose in an ayahuasca ceremony, and I've talked about it. This force a rose, and there was this awareness that I may need to actually go into my training a bit more. And that actually is what drove me into my cinnamon deatta, which was I was guided into doing, and then gave me what is my strongest move? We all have our strong move, whether we're stand up, maybe it's our overhand right. Or maybe it's whatever it is, if it's jujitsu, maybe it's our double leg, and then... We have our strongest move that we can pull that will work, for the most part, unless you're with something that's really gnarly, or you find someone who's really well trained, or an entity or something. But I just kind of feel like there's this overall, like it's a bit too soft in a way, the way that people are kind of exploring and to actually have a more robust and holistic understanding, like a little bit of warrior training might be helpful. I don't know, what do you think about that? Just like a little bit of the warrior training base.

HAMILTON: Maybe more than a little bit. Maybe a lot. This soft thing, and I've been hearing this in the space as I've been... I've kind of been on the electric grid, but off-grid of kind of everything that's been going on in the last couple of years. And I've just started kind of networking again and talking to people about what's going on. And there's this vibe I'm coming across about this softness, but I never got it from anybody. I don't even know what anyone's talking about. I need to sit in some other circles and even understand because I was not given anything soft. They were like, to survive this journey, you have to learn these skills, period. So you're going to learn these skills, and part of it is medicine skills, and part of it is warrior skills, and part of it is outright warring skills. So you're going to learn all these different skills. And if someday you need them, they're going to be available to you. And that someday was day one. That was literally the first day. It wasn't like, hey, maybe someday like at ceremony 100, I might need this. It was like the first 95 out of 100 ceremonies were in that conflict. And so, I think you have to have these skills to be able to deal with conflict. You have to know how to deal with other states of consciousness of other people, or other forms of consciousness, whether they be energies or entities that are dominant over you, and that you have an ability to push back, and you have an ability to deal with it. So, I don't think of this from a position of being a pacifist at all. I look at it as, if the thing is 100% war, shouldn't we turn it down a little bit? Not 100% pacifist, turn it up 10%. Like when I look at the world, I just see the world at 100% war right now. And there are groups that are saying, hey, maybe we shouldn't be at 100% war. Whether it's just outright competition, just business competition, athletic competition, scholastic competition, technological competition, chipping everybody to go further in the competition, putting new neural networks, training new neural networks using different kinds of technology for it. If you research what's going on in the east, what China's doing, what Russia is doing, other countries, what they're into and what they're navigating and using science for to try to stay ahead and the nature of this competition. If you really look at it, it looks like things are pretty tense in terms of things being at war. If you look at consciousness itself, that is our collective consciousness. If you look at the propaganda machines that are running media, that is part of our collective consciousness. It's not like these things are all separate from each other. At the beginning of the podcast, we started saying, it's all part of that thing. No one's separate from this. It's all part of that thing. So if that's really where we are, and the world's at war, I think maybe what we need to start doing is turning down that war a little bit, adding a little bit more peace into it. But it's not a pacifist. A pacifist is equally at war. It's a weird concept. The pacifist is at war within themselves about the war. And they're choosing peace. I'm talking about going to source, I'm talking about going to source and having like a serious conversation with source about the war that's currently going on, and starting to tone it down, and saying, hey, we need to go beyond this conflict within ourselves. And to do that, you have to have all the skills. Because fear will get in your way, others will get in your way. The antagonist will get in your way. Whether it's a deity, whether it's mythological, whether it's a demigod, whether it's in your consciousness, whether it's you, whether it's an opposing army, it doesn't matter. It'll get in your way. Whether it's a bunch of people jumping around your car, like whatever. It'll get in the way. It's going through everyone's head. The world is sick. We need to understand it. It's mentally sick. It's mentally ill. It's confined in a dream, and that dream is a kind of trance state that has so much antagonism in it and so many antagonists in it, we can't see straight anymore. So, we have to have the skills to be able to navigate it. We have to teach everybody those skills. Only with those skills, can people be empowered enough to actually then begin to transcend it.

AUBREY: Yeah, it's a tricky thing. Because as soon as... The challenging part about starting to train it is, then it opens you up to actually getting your ass kicked a lot. Because you're going to encounter things and situations that are just better than you.

HAMILTON: Over and over and over.

AUBREY: Over and over, like just better than you. So, it also includes not only training it, but also knowing, okay, you may get your ass kicked, and here's how you heal, and here's how you recover, here's how you're going to be okay. And it's a whole process of realizing like you can't just teach someone a little and throw them into like a war zone, and have them survive. They'll get obliterated. So, it's this delicate balance of I think for the most part, if you're going to take the warrior path, which I think is an important path to take. To have those skills., you kind of have to commit at least to get a a couple of belts, a couple of belt levels in to understand enough that, and have a full kind of toolbox available so that you can handle most of these situations, and also handle when you get your ass kicked, and what the ultimate place of refuge is, when it's all... Exactly, exactly. Like to know, like Dorothy, where you can click your heels and go back home to source, and be literally in the fortress of your father's house, your mother's house, whatever. Gender is kind of weird when you're talking about love. But, Father's house sounds more intimidating, but maybe not. I don't know. Whatever it is, but inside the house of your heart, inside the house of love, and just be like, alright, I was getting my ass kicked out there. Let's go back here, let's regroup. Nursed back to health at the teat of source, and know that that's going to work and you're going to be okay. And then come back out there and you may get your ass kicked again. But that's how you'll actually learn all of the different ways, and get to a place where you can start to kind of navigate these realms with full confidence. And that full confidence gives you the ability to create the most I think empowering transformations, both within self and with others, is when you're able to actually look at the darkness and not be afraid. To have no fear at all. And I guess it's just a conversation that I'm not hearing anybody have really, except for the conversations that we have. And I think it's a conversation that's probably happening all the fucking time down in Iquitos. Everybody's training themselves up to be this because they understand that as the culture and consciousness. But in our psychedelic culture, I think, it's going to be a little bit weird without that kind of warrior training, that I think is available.

HAMILTON: I think it'll naturally expose itself where it needs to. I don't understand how you could ultimately learn about life without understanding how there is an inherent conflict associated with it, and how to navigate that. So, every warrior I know, and I know serious warriors. Warriors that have been in many, many wars in the physical sense. And they all have stories about when they were almost killed, and when they've been broken over and over and over by the training, and over and over and over by the conflict. And, I think if you don't experience that, then you'll never understand why you need to transcend it. So, if you don't have your ego chopped so many times, through those experiences to actually grow beyond it, and to understand what's going on within us, in those states of consciousness where that conflict is ripe and there's a lot of people dying over it right now, because of it. Like there's a lot of wars going on the planet right now. There's a lot of people dying while we talk about that thing right now. We will never understand it and will always be abstracted. It'll always be abstracted. And then people will think that it's not needed, they'll think that it's somehow negative or wrong. And I fundamentally just think that that's foolish until the entire collective has agreed to move beyond it. And that's not going to happen through law, it's not going to happen through armistice, it's not going to happen through any way, it's not going to be a collective declaration of peace. That's not how it's going to work. It's going to work through a shift in consciousness or an evolution in consciousness, where those behaviors no longer have reason anymore. But in today's day and age, they still have a lot of reason. And everything you're talking about gives it even more reason why you would want to be trained, why you would want to know those skills, and also know the consequences associated with them. The very best martial artists never fight. But they train like crazy. And if they had to, I don't want to be on the other side of that. At all.

AUBREY: There's a gentleness that only actually comes from knowing that you're an absolute badass, like the Tim Kennedys and even Kyle's sitting in his room. The absolute badasses are some of the gentlest people that you know, and they're just out. But there's like a piece that you have when you know yourself as competent wherever you go, and it's a place beyond fear that's not just a psychological bypass of fear, which I think is important too. And it's not to take that move off the board. I think we need to do that as well. But also to like engage it. I couldn't bypass the situation where Caitlin got slammed into the car. I can't spiritually bypass that. There was no move where I was let's talk about it as your fucking face was dripping blood. No, that was not the fucking move. And there was not also an option to take the first fucking swing, turn the other cheek and let him stomp me into a fucking ICU somewhere. Those are not the options that are available. Yeah, I guess the invitation is to just to expand the gamut. And I think a lot of people are going to be asking, well, fuck, what, how do I even start even thinking about doing any of this training actually in any way, or like being able to at least defend myself, at least like the self-defense class of this without actually creating more fear? And then turning every thought form that comes into something that you have to fight, because you have to have serious discernment to understand when it is time to actually enter the fray with that type of energy, and when it's just like, just let that pass, let that pass. It's just a thought. Or love that thing. Loving that thing that wants to fight has been, especially the gnarliest things, has been the best weapon than I've ever had. And then when there's another thing that might be necessary. And, it just feels like there needs to be like a Hogwarts of... That's like full spectrum of all of the different things that you might encounter, and all of the ways to deal with it. But from like another perspective.

HAMILTON: Well, if people are interested in learning, I'm here. Yeah, I am actively teaching, and I'm actively sharing ceremony, and I actively talk about this stuff. So, honestly, if anyone is interested in learning these skills, and being part of these understandings, inside and outside of psychedelic consciousness, and the sacred plants and ayahuasca, that's what we're here for. That's the service we provide.

AUBREY: I mean, I encourage people to check that out. And I know that during pandemic times, you were leading deattas which is one of the strong practices, where you actually get the strength of a plant, or a tree, inside your consciousness body, and can call on that ally. And I've been speaking about how cinnamon has been such a strong ally for me. And I imagine if I read dieted rose again, which I would like to do, I would learn even more as my own consciousness is developed, and my own ability to connect with these, what can be seemingly abstract energies. But as they've become more real to me, I just feel... Even though I'm by no means a black belt in this world, I feel so much more at ease than a lot of the people that I know who go into different ceremonies and things, just from the very basic training. Just, I feel very much at ease when I'm in a nightclub, and people are drunk, and I'm with my wife, who's beautiful, and her friends. And I'm like, I know enough. Maybe not enough for like the best of you. But I know enough for most of you. And that makes me feel a certain type of confidence, and allows me to explore the edges a little bit more. I don't know, I guess I just encourage that. I encourage that that becomes part of the conversation and part of the zeitgeist. Not the dominating part, but just a little bit more awareness that we're not helpless to these beings and these things. There's places where we can find refuge, there's places where we can bring our energy, there's places where we can build our team, our squad. And not to overdo it, because I've also seen that where people are in full conflict mentality all the time. And I've stepped into ceremony with them. And everything is just distortion. It's just--

HAMILTON: That's delusion.

AUBREY: That's delusion. Everything they see is light versus dark. It's all polarity, it's all that. And so it can certainly go way overboard. And that's the caveat is like you start, training like a hammer and everything becomes a nail. So, it has to be this really full spectrum approach to medicine in general. And I've, just always appreciated that about you, that you've trained like a warrior for most of your life, but then spend most of your practice actually helping to bring people to a place where they don't need to go to war.

HAMILTON: That's the nature of the skills themselves, right? Just because you have the skills and you have the tools doesn't mean you need to flex them and you need to use them all the time. The whole point of having it is so that you can actually discern the difference between your own delusions and actual threat. And how big of a threat is it if you have the tools to deal with it? That takes the threat way down. So then I have to start thinking, wow, the alarm inside my head that that's really a threat isn't really a threat, because I have the tools to actually deal with it. And so now, the negatives of the psychedelic space and the ayahuasca space, and psilocybin space, etc., which there are many and people talk endlessly about all the things that could go wrong. All these tools and all of these skills are there to minimize all of those potential dangers, to the point that you actually have something that's safe, sane and professional to do. So I think that's really the point behind it. It's not like you have skills to be able to defend yourself, so you go looking for a fight. You have skills to defend yourself so that if a fight comes to you for any reason whatsoever, you can stop it before it becomes a big fight. And if you get yourself caught in a really big fight, the most important thing to do is to have a squad and allies and friends who can just gather around you to gather in one moment and just end it. Just end it as fast as it started. Just shut that down. I was involved in conflicts that took 10 years to stop, like really gnarly stuff early on. When I got to the Amazon, it was at the end of an evolution of incredible violence between the practitioners. And so, I got involved in a lineage that was healing that stuff. And the nature of the conflicts would last decades. The mythological stories told amongst the people in the small towns, was that these conflicts between shamans was lasting 10, 20, 30 years. And that it would flare up and there would be all sorts of battle, and then ultimately deaths and stuff associated with it. And so, going into that, and seeing it for what it ultimately was from the very beginning, I realized there's no reason that that stuff has to ultimately play out for such a long period of time. There's no reason that any of that stuff has to actually be that way anymore as long as we have the skills and the technologies and the techniques and the people together to be able to just bring an end to it much faster than that. And that's what we've been developing over the last 20 years is, how to ultimately be just more effective. So, even when we're talking about it, there's like this polarity already there is, are the defensive arts separate from the healing arts? Well, not really. There's no place to heal unless you have the defensive arts. It's like, go to society and think whether you can have an operating room if there are no police and no rules, and nothing governing who goes into the operating room or not, you don't have an operating room. In consciousness, it's exactly the same. In the psychedelic space, it's exactly the same. You want this big, beautiful space to be able to do this big, psychic, elaborate surgery healing thing, and it just gets bombarded by everyone's shadow. Everyone who's there, shadow will just start corrupting that space and putting all different kinds of codes going through it, like all these different TV channels of different energies that have no place being there. So, you have to somehow be able to create a boundary around the nature of that space, so that somebody's consciousness can be in that space and receive from that space the way it was designed and created. So I just think it's naïve the way people are talking about this. It's like a baby way of understanding this. And that's appropriate, considering that, especially in the psychedelic renaissance, that it's just starting. Give it 10 years, give it 20 years, give it 30 years, there will be a lot more in the culture about this and more understanding about it as it becomes more important. The tribal lineages kept all of this secret for a number of different reasons. One, they thought it was bad press thing. What do you mean, there's all this going on about this? Two, it was their secrets. They had no reason to share. They had no reason to share this outside of their own lineages and stuff. And so, people didn't really talk about it much. I got into it. Simply, I was thrown to the wolves. And when I woke up to what was going on, and I saw westerners coming down to participate in these ceremonies, I thought they need to know. So I just thought it was an aspect of information and responsibility to have to share the fact that this was real. And even before I went, I was warned, but I didn't understand what to do with the warning. I was just told by a practitioner in Santa Cruz, California, she just said, "Oh, be very careful when you go down there. They don't think about this like the way we do." It was just simple as that. It's all they said. I didn't know what she meant when she said they don't think about it the way we do. Oh, now I understand. They don't think that that's bad. They don't think that that's wrong. They think that's the way it is and the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it's always been going on. Right. And so, in understanding that, as the psychedelic renaissance grows and more people participate and experience this, you have to understand, you're going to awaken your own shadow. You're also going to awaken your own heart. But when you awaken your shadow, you have a choice. You either learn to deal with it, or it's going to get stronger. And if it get stronger, it's not going to help you in your life. It's not going to help you deal with anything, it's going to literally make your life worse. And, so we have to take that into consideration, and be responsible and thoughtful about that. We need to understand that we don't want our shadow to get stronger. We need to set our intention to bring our shadow down. We need to understand that we need to bring the light and the divinity and the real understandings up. We need to understand that we have to learn the protective arts. Maybe it's not about battle anymore. Maybe it's just about protections. Like a seatbelt's protective, anti-lock brakes are protective. Should you take those off the car because you don't think you need them anymore? It's like, no, we learned all those technologies for a reason. Let's have those technologies. Let's use them in a safe way. And then let's be able to walk very gently upon the earth and live in bliss. But then, if you come across a lion, you'll know what to do. And if you come across a delusional, paranoid, schizophrenic, angry, delusional, psychopathic sapien, you might also know what to do.

AUBREY: Be prepared, yeah. Be prepared. Well, I just want to give you so much credit and respect for the way that you've structured stories in my own consciousness, and my own understanding. I mean, obviously, being able to have access to your wealth of wisdom so early, and then be able to have that help guide me through so many of the places that I've been, and to have you as an ally from the drop, really been such a gift. And I'm just grateful to continue that process and that practice and to kind of expand this awareness. Yeah, I'm excited to drop into a little experience with you with the crew tonight. We're not drinking ayahuasca everybody here, but we're going to have a little ceremonial experience. And I'm just fucking, I can't wait to hear your icaros again and hear your songs. I mean, I'm expecting, kind of hoping you're going to sing some of them. But yeah, man, it's just a pleasure to be in your space, and to share your wisdom with the audience. And I'm excited. I'm excited about this reunion and, and what's to come.

HAMILTON: Oh, thank you so much. It's the same. It's incredible to see your progress, too. It's been 10 years since... It's been an incredible time. And I'm equally grateful. I look forward to the next 10 for sure.

AUBREY: Likewise, brother.

HAMILTON: Yeah, yeah, and you'll hear some icaros.

AUBREY: Yeah, let's go! Let's go.

HAMILTON: You'll hear some icaros. Sure, why not.

AUBREY: Well, let's fucking go. I love that. All right, where can people reach out and find you these days?

HAMILTON: Alright, so check us out at And also on social media, on Instagram at @HamiltonSoutherOfficial. And on Facebook at HamiltonSoutherOfficial as well. But if you want to come drink ayo with us, we're running retreats year round again. And it's an incredible time. So, see our website,

AUBREY: Thank you, everybody, so much love. Peace. Thanks for tuning into this video. Make sure you hit subscribe, follow me at @AubreyMarcus. Check out the Aubrey Marcus podcast available everywhere and leave a comment. Let me know if this video resonated or what else you would like to hear from me in the future. Thank you so much.