The Healing Power Of Your Own Wild Sexuality w/ Mama Gena | AMP # 447

TRANSCRIPT:

AUBREY MARCUS: Regena, here we are. 

MAMA GENA: Here we are. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Here we are. There's so much going on in the world right now and sometimes it feels like people feel bad for being in their pleasure right now. They feel bad for finding that spark of light and Eros and love and laughter within themselves because people are suffering.

MAMA GENA: Dude. I'm like a Jewish mother. And as a Jewish mother, it's not just like the suffering of my kid. Or the happiness of my kid. It's not just the suffering of the Israeli people. The Palestinian people, the Ukrainian, the Russian, the Afghanistan, it's like just holding it all. 

AUBREY MARCUS: All of it. All of it. 

MAMA GENA: And then, literally, I was like, how the fuck? I was like, Peter, how can we go to Arcadia when the world is burning? Because all I want to do, who else has this like, we just want to crawl into a fetal position and hold yourself and rock and feel numb and immobilized is what happens to me and my body, which is the worst possible feeling because we want to be able to be people taking relevant action. And the last possible place that any of us have been taught to look is in the direction of our own radiance, our own aliveness, our own erotic sovereignty. Like that's the last place. And it's the only place from which we can actually rebuild the world or re-envision the world, but you don't want to go there because there's so much suffering. How could you break through that wall with a step in the direction of your pleasure? It's like Audrey Lorde says, feminist writer, she says you cannot dismantle the master's house with the master's tools. And all we want to do is reach for those fucking hammers and start hammering. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Oh, there's a war. Let me go to war. 

MAMA GENA: Yeah. 

AUBREY MARCUS: War will fix war. 

MAMA GENA: Yeah. 

AUBREY MARCUS: More war will fix more war and then more war the most war will fix the most war and that's not the way actually, if you look at the forces like there is this force of death. A force of death, anti life. Let's just call it anti life, an anti life force. Well, what's the life force? Well, you can find the life force all in your own body, in your own heart, in your own mind, body, spirit. And if you bring that life force forward, that's actually what's fighting the war consciousness. It's life. It's life versus anti life. And so we got to be able to find that. 

MAMA GENA: Yeah. Yeah. And it's like almost, you know, in a culture that disconnects and disempowers all of us from our pleasure and from our eroticism based on all of the patriarchal world's culture and the religions that have dominated, right? So we go off the direction that, like the antidote, is moving in a direction which blasts our ego apart because you feel so wrong for doing the very thing that will elevate the consciousness, not just of each of us, but of the world. And so like, how do you bust through that? How does your discipline and your practice of pleasure become so profound that no matter what is happening out there, you're willing to say, I am hot. I am majestic, I am connected to my erotic divinity and I will practice and play this instrument in service to that which is greater and I will not agree with whatever the culture is trying to put a chokehold on our pleasure and our experience of pleasure. So it ain't easy now, baby. 

AUBREY MARCUS: No, it ain't easy.

MAMA GENA: It ain't easy. But I just wanna say, motherfuckers, you're all here. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, we're here.

MAMA GENA: You're all fucking here. And that, I know the children you had to leave the loved ones. The dogs you had to get dog sitters for. I know, like packing that suitcase, putting in those costumes like that. It is not easy to throw a party when the world is having a big death march, but you did it. You did it. Yeah. These are your people. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Well, you know, one of the things that Mark Gaffney says is that every failure of ethics is a failure of Eros, right? So that Eros, 

MAMA GENA: Okay, wait a minute. Hold on, we need to breathe that in, right? Every failure of ethics is a failure of

AUBREY MARCUS: Eros. 

MAMA GENA: Eros. Okay. So hold on. Failure, what does he mean by failure of Eros?

AUBREY MARCUS: So this is what he means. What he means is, if you're in your erotic body, if you're fully enlivened, fully enlivened, where you merge with the divine source field of Eros itself, with Shekinah herself, if you merge with the goddess Eros, if you're in Eros. The goodness will actually flow through your body. So all of those people who commit any version of atrocities or violence or other things, they're clearly not in their erotic body. If they were able to look at a grape and taste the sweetness of it, what hateful comment would they want to spread at that moment? None. If they were fucked into the divine rapture of God, do they really want to change someone's beliefs on the other side of some line somewhere? Do they really? No, they don't. But the problem is, as you said, these structures, they've placed blockages in our channel to access Eros. And these blockages create, contort, twist, like kinks in the hoes so that our people's Eros doesn't flow. 

MAMA GENA: Who you callin’ a hoe? Okay, so maybe I'm a hoe. 

AUBREY MARCUS: But I'll call you a kink. 

MAMA GENA: I just had this vision while you were saying this, you know, because I was like, picturing like biblical, bring up Gaffney. And I was like in the Bible for a minute. And then I was in Israel. And then I was watching you in my imagination. And I was seeing all of the women here who are of course, high priestesses of sexuality. Yeah, 

AUBREY MARCUS: Clearly.

MAMA GENA: And you were marching them to the front lines and you were saying here are my maidens, we are here to fuck the war out of the soldiers 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah 

MAMA GENA: Not a bad 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah I mean

MAMA GENA: It's not a bad plan 

AUBREY MARCUS: Regina for peace negotiations, a hundred percent.

MAMA GENA: I just want to know like 

AUBREY MARCUS: And for the ladies we got Kyle Kingsbury and his veto, coming on now. Ready to serve. Fit for service. 

MAMA GENA: So, who's down? Okay, we got like a lot of willing high priestesses here and I think tonight we could get a signup sheet and we could get like a few thousand. We could charter a plane and I think we could make an impact.

AUBREY MARCUS: Fuck the war out of the world. 

MAMA GENA: Yeah, that's right. That's right. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Fuck the war out of the world.

MAMA GENA: It’s Aubrey Marcus. But back to your point, it's like people do a lot of really shitty things in the name of love, right? And that's why I think pleasure is actually the highest level of morality 

AUBREY MARCUS: Agreed. 

MAMA GENA: Because if you knew that there was something you were doing that would be hurtful or harmful to another, and you were tuned in and tapped into your own pleasure, you could never do it. But you could beat your child if you love your child, like, I am beating you because you're naughty and you need to learn, like, we do a lot of shitty things in the name of love. 

AUBREY MARCUS: But that's the name of love, which we call love. But is it really love? That's the question, right? Like so many things in the name of love, but it's not usually love. It's usually some identity attachment complex or some way in which you don't feel whole unless your partner reflects that wholeness upon you. It's the neediness of that moment. It's the insecurity of that moment. And then we just whitewash it with love because these things are attached to love, but they aren't love. Nobody does something bad actually in love, in the field of love, 

MAMA GENA: But they think they do. 

AUBREY MARCUS: They think they do, and that's where the words get confusing, right? That's where people are misperceiving it and they start to isolate it and make it a personal love or personal pleasure. Like my pleasure matters, but your pleasure doesn't matter, but pleasure is a field. Love is a field, and when you're really in pleasure, or you're in love, you're in love in accord with the field. Everything else is like a pseudo pleasure. It's like the packaged pharmaceutical version of this is a little dose of pleasure for you, for now, at the cost of your future self, or at the cost of somebody else. But the real love, the real eros, the real pleasure, is always connected to that larger field because we have to be able to feel each other. We have these mirror neurons that fire. We have compassion and comparison and all of these things, this shared mutuality of arrows. I mean, when you're sitting with your priestesses and you're going through a pleasure practice, the whole field of, I haven't been there, I don't have a Yoni. So pussy. I don't have a pussy. 

MAMA GENA: Don't you really? I mean, don't you really? Cause like I have a cock. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. No, I haven't found mine then. 

MAMA GENA: I don't know. I can feel yours. I can feel yours. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Do you wanna describe my pussy to me? 

MAMA GENA: Yeah. I do. Okay. Yours is the kind of pussy. She has this kind of regal, quiet, confidence, yeah, I see you just crossed your legs the other way. Yeah! She's feeling it. Which is like, Oh no, you come to me. Can you feel that? And it's such a sweet, almost like little boy energy around his pussy. Like, it's just glistening and waiting to be noticed. My pussy is more of a showgirl. She's like, her name is Lola. Hello. Hello World! I think I'll write a book about you and become a New York Times bestseller. No, just yeah. Okay. 

AUBREY MARCUS: That's you make an interesting point though, because pussy, cock, these are actually representative of natures that are endemic to every single human being.

MAMA GENA: Exactly.

AUBREY MARCUS: Like my willingness to receive and to receive, whether that's information or a transmission or whatever it is to like really receive that in, well, that comes in through my metaphysical pussy. And as I push out ideas and thoughts and other things into the world, that's my metaphysical cock. 

MAMA GENA: Yeah 

AUBREY MARCUS: And we all have a metaphysical pussy and cock.

MAMA GENA: Yeah, right on. And I mean my cock, it's weird. I didn't know I was going to be talking about my cock.

AUBREY MARCUS: Should I describe your cock? 

MAMA GENA: Yeah. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Just so we're fair.

MAMA GENA: Let me get comfortable. 

AUBREY MARCUS: I was going to describe your cock 

MAMA GENA: I'm ready. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Your cock is the kind of cock that knows that it's packing. I mean, it's packing. It's thick. It's strong. It gets hard and stays hard for as long as you want it to. But you're so sure about your cock. But you don't need to flex it, and you don't need to walk around swinging, dingaling in that thing. You just know that you got it right there. And then the right moment, when that moment opens her glistening legs and the tumescent lips of something you can penetrate, that cock will engorge. And the ecstasy will rise into a climax, and you just know that shit.  

MAMA GENA: I mean, how many of my ladies, are you in touch with your cocks? Yeah, right on. And sometimes do they get in your way, right? Because we forget to unhook them when we're with our guys. And then it's like we're hitting, like, it can get nasty. Yeah. It's been maybe a lesson of my life. First of all, I think the first lesson was to learn how to activate that part of me. Cause I started as a little hippie chick that really, I just had a dream of turning women on so that I could turn the world on, but I just didn't care if I did it in my living room forever. I was just so happy to teach women about pussy and turn on and things like that. And then when shit got real and I was raising my kid, et cetera, I had to find my big cock so I could do spreadsheets and hire instead of just anyone who showed up at my door and said, hi, I love your book. Can I work with you? And I'd be like, uh huh. That was more, let's say feminine. And then I had to become more discerning and to be able to say, no, could you actually do anything because you have a resume, or something like that. And then as I was raising my kid myself and running the company and wanting to create the pleasure revolution, creating the pleasure revolution, like my cock just got so big. And does anybody ever have that? Like your cock just goes out of control. And it's almost like, well, how can you be penetrated? I'm sure you've met women like that. Where you can't penetrate because we've all been taught in this culture to man up. And so I think, you want to be able to have that fluidity release. I hope that I am better. You'll talk to Peter later and say, is that crack ever getting in the way in that bed? Is there too many cock? 

AUBREY MARCUS: Just to comment on that, what I have seen though, is women who have a big cock, have that really strong kind of masculine penetrative inclination. I recently met, and this is actually the podcast I'm recording now here at Arcadia, but it was released yesterday and it was with Gabby Reese and Laird Hamilton. And Gabby Reese is a fucking badass. She's as tall as I am, just a pro beach volleyball player, model entrepreneur, just a bad ass mother. And she found someone in Laird Hamilton, who is such just a man, a good man in every sense of the world. And he's obviously the greatest big wave surfer of all time. So strapped himself into a surfboard that he can't get his feet out of, that if he gets caught underneath a wave, he'll be stuck under there and just have to just relax so he doesn't die like he told that story. And it's not only that he's willing to confront that wild feminine of the ocean, because the ocean is a woman. And it's God to him, this is where he finds God and just be able to listen to her, to trust her, to know her and to go on the biggest fucking ride that she can ever create. Whatever the biggest wave in the world is. He's like, yeah, mama, give that to me. That's what I want. And so she just melts and relaxes in the presence of that type of man. So it's not that any woman here who has that really strong kind of masculine inclination, there's still another type of man that you'll be able to go like, Oh, wow. I can let my cock go limp and I can let this man fuck me with the entirety of his essence. Because I can like let all that go 

MAMA GENA: And would you say you, did you want to cheer? Right. Do you have that relationship with your inner pussy yet? Are there times when you can feel that side of you? And I'm curious about this because I was flipping through my instagram the other day and there was Meryl Streep was on and she was like, Hey, she's speaking with a bunch of wonderful, highly evolved men. And she was saying, Guys, women have learned to speak “man” our whole lives. We're fluent. We dream in man or masculine. But men don't speak woman. So I just was wondering if you can relate to that or like how's your pussy? 

AUBREY MARCUS: You know, I've actually gotten definitely more and more in touch with that aspect of myself because I trust, I think for a man, you have to trust your virility. Like you have to trust that you're a man, trust that you're a king, and when you trust that so deep, you don't have to push it in front of you. You don't have to carry it forward. So, whether it's just kind of with my sister, like I'll see her and I'll nuzzle up against her. I'll just let her like there's a certain softness of just purely receiving. And even when we hug, it's just like, I'll just nuzzle in there. I'm not trying to penetrate with the hug. I'm just trying to like to feel in and feel that. And so it's this dropping of all of that to be able to really receive. And it's so delicious and restorative when I'm able to do that. And I'm very comfortable in that kind of role now. 

MAMA GENA: That's beautiful. Because I think it's, yeah, give him a snack. Let's have a snack. Because I think receiving is difficult, for women also, for us to receive attention, don't you think compliments, we are not necessarily at first feeling worthy of receiving. And so it's wonderful that that is a part of you that's starting to get more robust and more cultivated.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. And it's also trusting that people are actually good people, the right people, our people, they want to give. Now, I remember, I've always been a generous lover. I love to give. I love to give pleasure, and I love my own erotic desires and fantasies to be met.  

MAMA GENA: Like, what's your favorite thing to give? Just curious. 

AUBREY MARCUS: I mean, erotically speaking

MAMA GENA: Yes.

AUBREY MARCUS: My favorite thing to give is my own rapture. 

MAMA GENA: Yes. 

AUBREY MARCUS: In every smell, every texture, like I'll spend time and I'll sniff the armpits and the lips and breathe when I kiss, I'll breathe the breath. 

MAMA GENA: Yeah. 

AUBREY MARCUS: And then I'll move down, of course, to the pussy and just take a moment to just smell her and be with her. And feel her coming alive and then to offer my own gift of pleasure to that. I mean, that's actually probably one of my favorite moments of sex thing. It's just that moment where I get to greet the pussy and the whole woman and just say like, no, I love all of it. Hairy, not hairy with all of your odors and all of your things. Like I want my lover and my wife now, especially to just know, like, I fucking love all of it, like, I love how you smell, I love how you taste, I love every sound that you make, I love the breath that fills my own lungs from your lungs. To just know that I love the whole essence, and when I pour my own desire into that essence and wake it up and alive in it and watch it like that. That desert flower that blooms when you sprinkle the moisture and then moisture just blooms open that rose of Jerusalem rose. What is it? Rose of Jericho. What is that? It was a Jericho that you just sprinkle a little water on this little acorn and it just blossoms right open 

MAMA GENA: Come on you have to snap for that 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah

MAMA GENA: Okay. That was really good for me. Thank you. I don't need anything else today. Just filled up.

AUBREY MARCUS: What's your favorite part about engaging with a man's cock.

MAMA GENA: Ah. You know how you were talking before about the field. So there's a Rumi poem and a line from that Rumi poem is out beyond wrongdoing and right doing, there is a field. I'll meet you there. And then the poem goes on. And I always think of that as I approach my lover, Peter. Well, my fiance, Peter, two weeks, tomorrow, we’re engaged. Okay. I revere cock. I'm salivating right now. Just saying the word cock.

AUBREY MARCUS: So Kyle is so excited. 

MAMA GENA: Just like the fragrant. Well, okay. First of all, I would never, no, sometimes I just start with his cock. That's true. Or just like the area around his cock, like that, a man's chest, that little trail of belly hair that kind of surrounds the pubic hair. I just love to breathe in, inhale that just exactly the way you were describing, like the scent of his skin. I love it. If he's a little sweaty, just like his essence. Here's the crazy thing. I'm learning more about cock with Peter than I ever knew because when you're in a partnership, you're with this one body. I was a floater previously. And so I didn't have like, you know, I would be less focused on one guy. Oh, when you put that thing there, Aubrey, you know what I mean? So what I've had this experience with him is, so delighted, like to take his cock in my hands, in my mouth. To feel it grow, to just be so pleasured by the sensation of that delicious soft skin and that hard cock. That combination is so irresistible and I just want to feel that in every one of my orifices and it's so good and so good. But here's the thing I've learned with Peter, like his cock does not have to be hard to turn me on or to actually activate my entire body. Like I have fucked Peter. Are we allowed to talk about this?

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. I mean, look behind us. We got a giant dog with a thousand titties.

MAMA GENA: Yeah. Okay. I fucked Peter with his cock soft and it was like literally shattering energy in my whole body that shocked the shit out of me because I have such a cultural prejudice as do many of us thinking that, as in pornography, that the only effective experience of sex or sensuality is with a hard cock, but I have such a love affair with his soft cock like it's just like so, it's almost more filled with magic because it doesn't have a goal and I just don't know what to say except I am in love with every aspect of his masculinity from his softness to his half hardness to his rock hard, like all of it is delicious and intoxicating.

AUBREY MARCUS: That's such a healing thing for men to hear. And I speak for myself. Because I carried so much shame about those moments when my cock wasn't hard enough, right? So much when I was younger in my teens and twenties, like so much shame. I felt like impotent, ineffective, and not like a man. I would beat myself up. It was this constant battle. And I think so many men equate their actual manhood, their own identity structure is built around the hardness of their cock. And really like, actually when you understand that you can fuck with the entirety of your being and take that cock energy and put it through the entirety of who you are. And Vylana has been amazing in helping teach me this, where I can like bring that, bestial animalistic fuck energy through my body and regardless of which dimension my cock is in. Because in the fifth dimension above it's not hard. It's like but whatever else it is, and I'm here in the third dimension and my cock somewhere out in the stars. It doesn't matter, like I can really bring her into that state of her house and that's been so healing because there's no win lose proposition in this game. It's like, no, we're going to fuck no matter what. 

MAMA GENA: Yes, whoop. Love the whoop. And it's fun too because like there's somebody over here that is really whooping for the soft cock. And we have like, down front is the heart.

AUBREY MARCUS: Soft cock clan. Hard cock clan. 

MAMA GENA: But the thing is, like, we women, we don't really like to tell them this. And I apologize in advance from fucking things up for you. But we're responsible for the hardness of your cock. You cannot get your cock hard yourself. You can't. Like, if I say to you, raise your right hand in the air, Aubrey. Yeah, you go. You're no problem with that. But I was like, get your cock hard, Aubrey.

AUBREY MARCUS: No. 

MAMA GENA: No, but if Vylana was sitting here and she was turned on, like, whether you want it hard or not, that shit is going to rise. And we, as women, don't always want hard cocks. And so we don't get them hard, but it's never his fault. It's like, we do not have an interest at that particular moment. Maybe we don't want it hard because we would like him to do a sacred revival ritual on our entire body. Maybe we want to have somebody read poetry to us, or nibble our neck, or tell us a bedtime story. There's other things that we long for, a massage. So, it's like, I am responsible for the cock beside me. And when I want it hard, So shall it be. And not before. Does that track with you? 

AUBREY MARCUS: It does to a certain extent for sure. So it's a yes. And there were periods where the lover that I was with was fully ready to receive me, but I was so stuck in my head. I was so afraid of failure of not pleasing the goddess. Like one of my greatest fears is that I won't please the goddess and that's obviously embodied by the goddess in front of me, the lover in front of me, but it also is relative to Gaia Sophia, the great goddess. That's probably my deepest rooted fear is that I'm going to not please the goddess in some way. And before in my younger years, that fear and the shame that I would feel if I didn't do it, would start to play these tricks on my mind and actually prevent me even when the moment was right. And again, there's a lot of other moments where you don't really know that person enough. You kind of returned on, but actually you really need to slow down. So absolutely. I totally agree that there's so many situations that apply like what you're saying. And sometimes for a man, actually the situation is right and ready, but there's some way that the mind or the small aspects of the mind, not the big M capital mind that knows that the whole cosmos is built on allurement and attraction and fuck, and even the way the molecules come together in the moon poles, the tides, everything is connected by this erotic field, not that capital M mind, but the small egoic mind that links your identity to your performance. And if your performance doesn't meet what you think your performance should meet, then your whole identity powers down to such a degree. And it's such a painful and hurtful thing that the fear overwhelms you. It's like, if you're going to

MAMA GENA: You should have just called me. 

AUBREY MARCUS: I needed your number back then. I mean, so many men, though, needed to hear some different version, hopefully, still now, even though this wisdom is percolating, but need to hear like, no, no, no, it's okay.

MAMA GENA: Yeah. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Like there's so much more if you just let down all of those ideas and stories and get with someone who really is like a sex priestess in some way, she can revive and heal all of those elements, which will heal deep, deep parts of your own psyche and soul. So if you're out trying to penetrate the world with your idea and you become flaccid and it doesn't turn out, whether it's in a sport or whether it's in your work life or a speech or whatever you're trying to do in that moment, and you're not able, like, it's okay then too, you can still love yourself. It doesn't mean that you're not a man. 

MAMA GENA: And that's really the difference between the masculine and the feminine, right? Because the masculine is really about doing accomplishment. The goal. And the feminine is more like loving every single aspect, like loving the connection, loving the transparency. Finding the holy and the sacred in the softness of the cock or the moment like that there is no end game better than right now. And that's why it's such a beautiful dance, right? Because we get to bring that. When our pussies are activated, which is like a whole other story, this whole other chapter, this whole other verse. When our pussies are activated and we have that sense of, I am like a legendary example of feminine majesty and I know that in every part of my being. Then I have the surplus to love his heartbreak, to love his fear, to love every facet of his unfolding sensuality and reflect back to him, his majesty, like we get to be the mirror from which he finds his king through our own connection to our own divinity and our own high priestess, queen, all those things. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

MAMA GENA: It's just what we do. 

AUBREY MARCUS: I feel that. And I really feel like there's so much healing that can happen. First of all, there's the healing that can happen with you, with yourself. There's a lot that you can do with you, with yourself. But because sexing is an act that really, well, it can involve yourself, but it involves your partner, your lover, there's so much mutual healing that can go both ways because it's not just men that have their own insecurities. There's women who are worried about how they smell. Oh, I stink today. Oh, I don't know how my pussy smells. And it's like you find a man that's like, give me that transatlantic flight, middle C pussy, like fresh off the plane. 

MAMA GENA: Oh my gosh. You've been miles high, how many times? Oh my God. Like you on an airplane. Single? Oh shit. Cannot even imagine the line stretching down. 

AUBREY MARCUS: But that thing that you get, and whatever it is, you know, Vyana's hands and feet would sweat and then she would get a little shy about that, but then just like loving holding her hand. And it wasn't just me that did it yet. She had another brother that was like, I love your sweaty hands and feet. And just to feel that she's loved in the entirety of her body. However it is, I think that's the gift that a man can give a woman. And of course, all those gifts that you were talking about that a woman can give a man. And it's just a matter of like, can we level up ourselves and level each other up in this.

MAMA GENA: Yeah.

AUBREY MARCUS: To really get this full erotic healing, which is a full ethical healing as well.

MAMA GENA: It's so big, Aubrey, like I think based on whatever my family of origin, the abuse patterning in my family, all that kind of thing. Like if it wasn't for meeting Peter and letting his love in, I think I would have moved through this life without ever feeling completely and totally and absolutely loved to every cell of my being. And I feel just so grateful that I have that experience in my life because I could have missed it. You know, I could have missed it with whatever else I was doing to fill my days, and I'm really grateful that he happened to me, that I got to meet him. 

AUBREY MARCUS: What it makes me think about is like one of the things that we've lost is we've lost the erotic temple. We've lost the temple, the temple, all of these desert religions in particular, but religions all over the place who say that spirit is good. Body is bad. All of these ideas that are universal, whether it's a monastic religion or whether it's just those shame built by protestant, Catholic religions or whatever, that place shame at the center of our sex, in the center of our Eros, which is our connection to the greater field of Eros. All of those, that energy could collectively call empire, that anti life anti eros energy has shut down all of the temples and all of the access. So we used to have the ability to not rely on our other, as we're growing up, like our teenage friend, is she going to be the embodiment maybe, but not in this culture at the very least, but probably not even then they're young and people are young, but there was the temple. You could go to the temple and find somebody there who actually could bring you into that state, whether you were having actual sex or not, but to help show you those things. And it just feels like, yes, we can find that with each other. If we're lucky and if we're open and if we're tuned in and if we give that synchronicity machine, if we give the mystery a chance to weave us with the right person and we get in the right state, but also like bringing these temples back. And I know the logistics and legal aspect and all, it's not culturally appropriate to do it. But I also just feel the need for that to return a place where someone's like, fuck, like I live in a small town in Iowa, like, and I'm listening to this podcast and where the fuck am I going to go to find this embodied priestess? But if there was a temple somewhere and fucking, I don't know, in the Sierras or wherever you want to put it around the beach somewhere. And you could go into the temple and in that temple in a three day experience with maybe some psychedelic wine and these priestesses, and you go there and they come back and all of a sudden they're that type of man, or conversely, like a woman can go someplace and they're that type of woman. And then things level up, but it's like, that's the kind of church really. And of course this is the most heretical thing you could say according to mainstream religion. But I really believe in that healing power and the necessity for that

MAMA GENA: Do you think that is what Arcadia is going to eventually turn into? Because we have like a lot of priestesses already that have volunteered. And I don't know, like maybe this is like just a step or evolutionary step towards that end. A lot of space here, structures.

AUBREY MARCUS: Oh man, I'm not doing any help for all those haters on the internet. They keep trying to tell me I'm starting a sex cult. I'm just giving them all the ammunition they need. They're like, Oh, great. Listen to what they said on this podcast. But I do though, I do fundamentally believe in that. The healing of Eros. 

MAMA GENA: Yeah. 

AUBREY MARCUS: The healing of it. 

MAMA GENA: And do you want to know something? Like we want, we women, want to give this medicine. It's amazing to be able to see his potential, or her potential and to be the, I don't know, vehicle by which another gets to experience their sacred or their holy or that eternal part of themselves. Like we want to give that gift. Right? Yeah. 

AUBREY MARCUS: So what are your thoughts? Like, as we're clearly moving into a new story. The old story of relationships hasn't served people. If you just look in the aggregate, you can read, you're probably friends with Dr. Wednesday Martin, imagine you guys live in the same city, you know each other. Her book Untrue was great. She shows in the aggregate, all the graphs about erotic desire, just kind of falling off a cliff and traditional monogamous relationships, both for men, which is a gradual decline, for women it lasts for about two and a half years. And then it literally falls off a cliff. This is just in the aggregate speaking. We're not talking about the initiated priests and priestesses of the world, and then the divorce rates are, I think above 50 percent, the same with infidelity rates and people are living in these shame-filled secret lives, or quiet desperations. And so we understand that whole context, but then if you even go a step before that into the dating context, there's so much around, like, the idea of having sex for the sake of sex or for the sake of healing, healing sexing, or just the Hebrew word is ‘lishmah’, ‘lishmah for its own sake’, just sex for its own sake, it's sometimes there's a culture that accepts that, but sometimes people are afraid because like, what is this going to mean? Does this mean we're in a relationship? Does this mean that there's going to be all of the attachments, all of those elements of love, quote love, that we talked about at the first part of the podcast that will come. And I recognize that there is, when you form that deep connection, there are things that attach you. There is an energetic exchange. There is a link. There is a Tsaheylu, to say the avatar word, where you're merging with another being. But at the same time, it also feels like, yes and like, I think bringing back this idea of like, no, it's okay to just have an erotic experience, set the container for it with somebody in this conscious way. Say we're going into this ‘leishma’ for its own sake, for the sake of this thing itself. And we may never talk to each other. We may never see no expectations, nothing like that, but it feels like that would also be like a helpful story to share rather than this, Oh, that counts against your numbers. Who fucking cares? What the fuck are you talking about? You know, like, is this going to bring more into your life? Is this going to make your life better? Is this experience going to increase not only the infinity of ecstasy of those moments that you shared, but also bring an aftertaste that makes your life better. And it just feels like that's a better story to help people navigate, even as they're reaching into a sacred union relationship and then using different technologies to keep that Eros alive throughout their partnership.

MAMA GENA: Yeah. Let's say there's the story before this story. You know, it's like Genesis, Exodus, Deuteronomy, the whole thing. Like there's like the chapters. The chapter, let's say with which I have spent the majority of my life with my attention. It's like most women, like women are the people that I have worked with for the past 30 years, and most women come from such an extraordinary deficit in terms of Erotic aliveness or erotic fulfillment. We live in a world where it's like, one out of every four women has been raped or violated. It's like 0.4 rapists will spend even a night in jail. There's a culture of abuse, of physical abuse, verbal abuse, violence, sexual abuse. That hashtag me too was, five or 10 years ago, where women finally were admitting that there were experiences of violation of their actual bodies, that they were too ashamed to share. So we're dealing with women who are not filled up to the level of even understanding their own pleasure, their own connection to their own, she who bleeds but does not die and gives life. We do not know the holy in ourselves. That was certainly my story. That's why I started the school of women in the arts because I was so disenfranchised and dejected, and I didn't know who I was, and I didn't know where my power was, and thank God, I literally tripped over orgasm one day. I was just lying there on the ground, and I went, but I encountered a school, which I subsequently studied at and learned all about my own orgasm and my own pleasure. But what I have found is until a woman can connect to that sense of her own aliveness, her own beauty. This is how weird it is for women. Okay. What did your pussy get called or your parts get called when you were a little girl? Bean, vagina, Yoni, or what was yours? Wow. Okay. So, and then how many of you had nothing where there was no name? And then if we had a room full of guys and I said, what'd your parts get called? The guys would be like, penis, what's your problem Regina? Like Dick, that's him. It's my Dick. What? So we don't even have a word for that, which is essentially sacred feminine about ourselves. And as soon as you take that word away, shame moves in, and then she becomes ashamed of every aspect of her body. She becomes ashamed of being a woman. She becomes filled with self doubt, self hatred, self deprecation. And then this creature, which I certainly was, can't see a king. Even if she tripped over one, what she sees is somebody that she's scared of. Somebody that could violate her. And so that's why I kind of started with women because I knew if I could turn women the fuck on, the first thing a woman would do would be like, turn and be like, Oh, hello, stranger. I'm ready for you now. But we, as women, don't even put the key in our own ignition and turn that baby on and take her down the highway. And it's only when you do that you can invite passengers. So it's like a huge missing inside the culture of feeding or fueling the holy in the feminine so she can recognize, Oh shit! I've always kind of been a high priestess. I just never knew, but here I am. Okay, world, I'm ready, but that's a process. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

MAMA GENA: I got you. 

AUBREY MARCUS: It seems that in mate selection, discretion, that kind of the ability to choose a partner too. 

MAMA GENA: Right. 

AUBREY MARCUS: How invaluable being tapped into that would be to even have the awareness to see like, Oh yeah, this is a good choice or this isn't a good choice.

MAMA GENA: And don't you have girlfriends, like women that you know, that they're just always picking guys that are just going to fuck them up. Anyone here ever done that? Yeah. Like just because you have to adore yourself to receive adoration and it doesn't happen without it.

MAMA GENA: And our mothers would have taught us if they only knew, but they didn't know. And their mothers would have taught them and so on. So then here's the crazy part. And you know this, again, you're taking this responsibility very seriously. It's like, we are the generation of transformation. Like you think you're here just to make your life wonderful. Sorry. You're here because the ancestors could not grieve your tears. Their tears. And so you are here to grieve for them. You are here because your ancestors could not find the holy inside of their own bodies and live it in their lifetime. So that becomes your responsibility. You are here for the children of today who will be the men and women of tomorrow. So you can fully embody your erotic aliveness, your erotic sovereignty, so that you can hold the high priestess and the queen in you so that you can elevate everyone because this shit ain't gonna happen without the women on board. And I think it's why things feel so fucking heavy right now. Because it's like we're not just crying our own tears. I feel like we're doing it forwards and backwards in time because we are alive. And we are able to hold it to the extent that we can and being together. My brother, being your sister, allows me to hold it even deeper and wider than I could without you, and I hope vice versa. That is my wish. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. 

MAMA GENA: Yeah, we make space for each other. 

AUBREY MARCUS: It's hard to look back at the way that the world has distorted such an essential founder. It is so hard to look back at it. And there's so many ways you can look at it. And of course, again, we pointed out the religious aspects of it, but there's many other cultural aspects of it. But there's this, I was doing some research and I didn't know where I was going to go with my wild Arcadia speech, but it led me down a bunch of rabbit holes. And one of the rabbit holes was into alternative health and medicine, and it led me to the story of John Harvey Kellogg, do you know the story of John Harvey Kellogg? 

MAMA GENA: No, but could you do it in an accent?

AUBREY MARCUS: I probably could, but it'd probably be the same as the only accent I get. I got two accents. I got Borat and I got somebody from the South. So maybe if one of them comes out, I'll tell you, darling, be careful. Huckleberry Ridge shows, there's only two things that are going to happen. You're either going to get wet. Or you're going to get wet. So the story of John Harvey Kellogg. So how many people have had Kellogg's cereal?

MAMA GENA: Yeah. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Kellogg's cereal, every fucking grocery store. They make all kinds of the fucking cereal. Well, the reason that corn flakes were developed, is because John Harvey Kellogg, and you gotta imagine now a man that always dressed in a white on white suit with white leather shoes and with a white fucking cockatoo on his shoulder. A live bird. That's cool, but what he was doing was not cool, because he called masturbation the vile inclination, and he was at war with Eros, so he developed cornflakes to drop people's sexual appetite and desire. What is the most bland fucking thing we can make for people so it'll sap their Eros. And then he put ads out in newspapers. This gets fucking worse. This gets dark. He put ads out in newspapers and it looks like a fucking center of summer cramp. It's called Battle Creek Sanitarium and it's kids playing and you'll get all healthy and blah, blah, blah. And he would lure, particularly these young men into his Battle Creek Sanitarium. And if he saw or suspected they had an inclination to masturbate, he would bind their hands so they wouldn't touch themselves or put cages around their cocks, but every day, even if you had a cage around their cock. He would take a 15 quart enema and give all the boys enemas with his white fucking cockatoo on his shoulder. And that's not even the worst of it. What he recommended to women was that they put carbolic acid on their clitoris to numb all sensation. Or even recommended clitorectomies to remove the clitoris entirely to keep them from pleasuring themselves. And, if a man, even if the cage didn't work, and even if the tied hands doesn't work, he would say, let's circumcise them without anesthesia, so that it will associate pain with their cock to such a degree that they won't want to masturbate. And that motherfucker has cereal boxes in every fucking grocery store. 

MAMA GENA: I feel so queasy right now. 

AUBREY MARCUS: I know. It's nauseating, right?  

MAMA GENA: This is really rough. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Like these ideas, we don't even know how they've been woven into the fabric of our fucking culture. You know? Like, it's a dark story of a very dapper and interesting fucking person, but fuck.

MAMA GENA: I mean, is it worse than the Catholic priests? Probably not really, but it's yeah, there's like a lot of bad shit out there, baby. 

AUBREY MARCUS: And again, 

MAMA GENA: That's why we need this temple that you're building here. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Exactly. These are the failures of Eros. Like if he was allowed to just be the flamboyant gay man that he was and just get fucked, just fucking bite down and grab the sheets and just let someone give it to him. Battle Creek Sanitarium would have been dope. People who would have been eating fucking bacon and eggs, 

MAMA GENA: That’s for sure.

AUBREY MARCUS: But it was the failure of his ability. And then he just played that out all over the world. 

MAMA GENA: Yeah. Well, isn't it? It's so interesting, right? The thing that is the most healing is the, you know, cause you and I know that literally, like, if we did take the high priestesses to the Middle East, things would improve that if you actually did create that temple that's in your dreams or imagination, or in my dreams and my imagination, right? It would be such a service. But there's so much negativity inside the wider culture that someone like that Kellogg dude could get away with that shit. But could we stand in our truth long enough to actually build a healing center that was around erotic transformation or reclamation. Could we stand the shit storm that would inevitably come if we chose to create such a healing center? And I mean, people got away with like, if you think about it, you know, in my lifetime, no yoga wasn't really practiced widely, or meditation, 50 years ago. Like, maybe this dream could actually be fulfilled. 

AUBREY MARCUS: With the right sacred audacity. Sacred audacity

MAMA GENA: I like those two words together. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Of course it could be done. And we're in fucking Nevada. They got the fucking bunny ranch here, so you can go pay money to have sex. So this model is already legal in the very state that we stand in. But the bunny ranch is not a place where there's a lot of healing happening. I mean, that's a place where you'll find someone like OD'd on a lot of drugs and cocaine and Viagra and in the fucking dark pit of despair. I mean, I don't know. I've never been there. I don't know. Maybe there's some lovely people having fantastic experiences. Could be. Yeah. No, I didn't mean to cast shade unnecessarily on the bunny ranch, which I don't know shit about. So blessings to bunny ranchers who are all around, but like fundamentally if that can exist and also the decriminalization of psychedelic medicine that's happening around the place. So if it was a place where there was cannabis infused wine. And then you pay for a whole entire different experience. Yeah. It's fucking legal. Like somebody could do it. Like it could be done, but not even in secrecy. And of course you could make it a church and go that route and fight all the way to the Supreme court for that. But it just requires the sacred audacity to be able to take all the shit, all the hell, to be able to stand at the tip, and just look out at the storm that's coming and just say, yeah, all right, do your worst. Like I'm standing for something I believe in. I'm standing for something that I know will change and reclaim something important for the world.

MAMA GENA: Yeah. That's right. I mean, thinking about it, I mean, I started with women, but I started with a handful of women in my living room, and then that shit just grew and grew until I was doing thousands and thousands of women. And I'm not saying we didn't get thrown out of our fair share venues, but I'm still standing still here before you, the pussy liberator, the legend lives.

AUBREY MARCUS: And that's also something to be said for your character, like your willingness to stand for that, cause I think there's a perceived amount of shit that you're going to get a perceived amount of arrows that you're going to get or standing in that way. But you've done with such brazen confidence, such sacred audacity, you know, such sacred audacity. My bet would be that it's actually less than people would think that you get, or maybe not. I don't know. What's your interest? How much have you been attacked? For work and for what you're standing for in the world. 

MAMA GENA: It would come and go. I think that probably the person that was most deeply affected was probably my daughter, because for example, when I used to teach, I had a Brownstone on West 88th street where I raised her and raised the school. And my neighbors thought that we were running a whorehouse because he would put rose petals on the stoop and women would come in the evening for class then they would leave and so there was like a misperception of what was happening at my house that sometimes little girls were not allowed to come over and play with her. Because I had a stripper pole in my bedroom that I use for upper body fitness. You know Sheila Kelly's factor, right? But people didn't understand what that was. She was nearly rejected, I applied, she has dyslexia, so like that school when they saw what I did, it was difficult to get her accepted. So I think she had a hard time. And then also I literally did get thrown out of every venue in New York City. Literally I've been thrown out of every hall that I rented because as soon as you have women feeling hot or beautiful and then they run to the bathroom in lingerie because they're in class feeling pretty and then I get, Oh, please, you can't ever come back here again or I've got cleaning bills from venues, Tribeca Film Festival for Pussy Juice on the Walls. Like, we weren't putting pussy juice on the walls. Just sitting there, sometimes in lingerie. But like, people think crazy shit is coming down. But overall, I think I pulled that shit off really, like, I handled it. Like, man, there was always a place. Like, we'd get thrown out, but we'd always find a place. Kind of like you guys this weekend. The thing was going to get shut down, but you just don't agree with it. And then a miracle happens. And I think that's the gift of the razor's edge is that's where all the miracles live. It's on that razor's edge. 

AUBREY MARCUS: What you're expressing is the structures and systems actually working against you in different ways. The structures were trying to prevent you from offering your gift and it was too transgressive to their own mores or their own corporate ideas of how to play within the system and received on all that. What about the people that just come at you. I mean, you have social media.

MAMA GENA: Yeah.

AUBREY MARCUS: What about the people that come at you? Are there people who are like, I can't believe you're doing this. Like, do you really get attacked online for what you do? 

MAMA GENA: This is a crazy thing, right? Because I was so scared to write a book that said pussy on the cover, because my last book is called Pussy a Reclamation. New York Times bestseller. Hello. And I was terrified. I thought I was going to be killed for doing that. And dude just slid right on down. And actually the week that the book came out, Trump was saying on extra or whatever, that TV show, I just grabbed him by the pussy. And so then they interviewed me at the Washington Observer, the most conservative newspaper in the world, who you just wrote a book called pussy. And there, Donald Trump just said that thing about pussy. So like, let's interview. So it actually was weird, like, okay, I'm probably the only woman that he advantaged. And really might be the only, I can't think of one else. But it's weird, like moving into those spaces of greatest vulnerability there is always grace and yeah, I mean, people would attack me, but not like, I don't know. I just didn't choose to notice it very much.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. I think that's such a powerful message for the audience. You know, not just this audience in front of us, but the audience listening online or watching this on TV, there's a perception of how much you're going to get attacked. And there are certain times where you can't say anything because whatever you say, you're going to get attacked. We're in one of those times right now. There's nothing you can say that won't get you attacked by somebody. And there's times like that, that it's actually true. But really, when you stand for something, that's in your deepest core competency, not only does it make you feel alive, like you're suffocating and now you can breathe again, because you're expressing your truth. It's rare that when you're in the full radical expression of an embodied truth, something that you know, and something that you're willing to stand for all of that kind of disappears because you plant yourself on a hill and say, yeah, this is my hill. And I'm willing to die on this fucking hill. And I think that's an important thing for me that I always think about is like, I don't want to get caught in some ravine or Valley or someplace where I don't have an embodied knowledge or wisdom and something I really want to stand for and get attacked a bunch for. It's like, I don't even really know. I just found myself in this Valley and I'm caught in this crossfire and I don't want to be in this fucking fight. But there's other places where it's like, no, this hill here. I am. And I'll be here like Alexander the Great with a double plumed helmet on and anybody who wants to shoot their arrows, shoot them at me first. And those places, like the whole orientation towards that culture of attack, the culture of trying to tear down, it changes. Not only is there less that actually comes when you make that strong stance. Because they can feel that you're coming from a place and they can feel that you're not going to back down. And it's this kind of interesting primal dance as a man, I've been in a lot of places where there was a sense of potential imminent hostility or violence from just the place that I was, whether it was a nightclub or a street where the bars were coming out or whatever. And there's been a lot of close encounters to actual physical confrontations. And except for one time, and I've told the story too many times, but except for one time, my willingness to say like, no, like I'm here, I don't want to fight. But if it turns into a fight, you better pack a lunch, motherfucker. Because I'm not going to run like you're going to be in this and the other people who would see that and they'd be like, Yeah, all right, I'm not ready for that kind of thing. And so there's a different way when you really know and you're standing for something that you know is true and that you're not going to back down. The whole world responds differently. 

MAMA GENA: Were you always that way, like when you were a little boy.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, I remember there was an older kid and this older kid kept putting, like, tight rubber bands on his dog. It was like a collie. 

MAMA GENA: Oh my god. 

AUBREY MARCUS: And I was like, I had this deep love, like I've always loved the goddess in all her forms, including animals and people. And I was smaller than this kid, but I was blessed by my family. I was trained in some martial arts and that kind of confidence in that Bushido spirit and to just know what is good. So I remember like, I was like, you can't fucking do that, man. Do you understand that your dog's trying to get it off? It's cutting off the blood flow in his leg. He can't walk, right? Like, you don't fucking do that, man. You want to know how that feels? And I tackled that dude to the ground and I just held his arm in this high position. It's like, this is what it feels. You want to walk around all day like this because I'll be here all fucking day and I'll do this all day. You take those fucking rubber bands off your dog. You don't do that. So there is some part of me that was always like, and I was a chill kid. I was playful, chill, but there's always a moment where I was like, that's not right. This is not how this is going to go down. So, I don't know, I mean, I guess maybe my grandmother was a fighter, she stood up to the oil companies in Southern California and would protest, and she was even shot at, at one point, because she was fighting like big oil, and there was like a drive by, she was going to court to testify, she won the court case, so my grandma, who's on my arm, yes, my grandma right here, Wow. The Grandma Bonnie. So there was something that came through my mother's line. 

MAMA GENA: Yeah. 

AUBREY MARCUS: That was like transmitted to me this love and desire to protect all life. 

MAMA GENA: Yeah. 

AUBREY MARCUS: And to be willing to put yourself on the line. And then something that came from my father's line, which was like he would always to his very best do what was good. Like if he forgot we could be flying from New York to LA. And he could remember that he forgot to tip the bellman who brought the luggage to the car and he had assistance and people. But if he didn't, he would call himself and you're like, look, the bellman looks like this. This is what he looked like. I forgot to give him a tip. I'm gonna back then you couldn't wire money or Zella money or cash app. So you had to fucking send money, so you would courier some money over there and you make sure this money goes to that person, like there was a goodness in him where he had to do what was right no matter what. And so that combination, and then my stepdad, he was a SWAT team officer in Compton, so he dealt with some crazy wild shit, but it wasn't just that he wanted to be a hero or the people to actually protect and serve. He was that way, the same way, like when we had different pets and a pet would escape and remember when we first got chinchillas, I told you this whole chinchilla story, but before this whole chinchilla story got crazy. If you guys really want to hear a chinchilla story, I'll tell it, but the importance of this story is one of them got into one of the downstairs, like air conditioning attic ducts that was just full of rat poop, and just disgusting, and it was stuck down there. And my stepdad's a big guy. And we were like, Oh, the chinchilla is stuck in the thing.  And he is like, all right, God damn it. And he just got down there and slid through all of the ratchet and all of the dust and belly crawled his way until he could find that chinchilla. And bring it back up so that me and my sisters could rescue, so he had this hero impulse. 

MAMA GENA: All right. So here you got the heroine on your arm, the heroine of your mama, hero of your dad and your stepdad. Do you feel like you have stepped fully into the mission of all of that lineage? Like, is there a still yet next step of you standing for the world in a way that you have not yet stood? Are you at the place that was like, you know what I mean? Where do I meet you in your story? 

AUBREY MARCUS: Well, I think it's a constant. That's a beautiful question. Thank you for the question. It's a constant evolution and it's a desk. It's a journey, not a destination, but I know that I'm further along in that journey than I've ever been. And I'm more comfortable. You know, I shared in my speech last night, the Lakota saying ‘Na-kay New-la wah-oon’, which is ‘I am ready for whatever comes next. I am always ready for whatever comes next’. And as the intensity of the world has increased, I've made deeper and deeper peace with, all right, if it's death, it's death. If it's canceling on social media, it's canceling on social media. If they freeze my bank accounts, they freeze my bank accounts, like ‘Na-kay New-la wah-oon’, like I'm ready, like I'm ready to stand and I don't know if there's another level of that because I still cry when I watch movies of heroes that do things that remind me of an element of who I really am. And the reason I cry is because I know there's a little bit more that I could give. There's a way that I could be willing to sacrifice more comfort to stand, more deeply in the fullness of who I am for the world. So I know there's still more to go. I'm at the place of the most it's ever been.

MAMA GENA: Yeah. It's interesting because I'm writing a new book and talking about the difference between the hero's journey and the courtesan's journey and one of the differentials, you know, which you've picked up from this indigenous thread of allowing yourself to be open to be broken and remade by life. Which is not a typical hero move, right? A typical hero move is I will slay that dragon. I will bring back the dragon's head. I will triumph. Right. You're willing to allow yourself to kind of surrender into what life wants of you and for you. And I would say that's your pussy. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Dragon pussy. Yeah. I mean, that is also a key thing. I mean, there's the plastic coated shell, this shallow brittle shell of masculinity, which says, I will not break. I will not cry. I will not be fucked open by the world. I will not be fucked into tears and blabbering sweat and purges. But that's not a solid strong hero, a solid strong actual hero in the hero's journey will allow that to happen. Allow all of the armor to melt into nothing. So all you are is the vulnerable, tender flesh of the soft animal. And then from there you can build back your scales and find the dragon breath that comes from the center of your heart and not slay the dragon, but become the dragon. I mean, that's the real story of the hero. Become the dragon. You're like inextricably linked to your power and your power in that, comes from your goodness, it has to come from your heart, not the power of your talons or the burning of the breath. It's the breath of the heart of life itself that you can breathe through you. And then when the scales get too bulky and they get barnacles and the things aren't working right, and the horns have grown so high that it's dragging your head down. Allow yourself to burn back down into the soft animal that you are, unscaled, unhorned, unarmored, and then trust that you'll be able to build back into an even more beautiful dragon.

MAMA GENA: I'm hearing right now Tina Turner, you know where I'm going with this? We don't need another hero. Come on, sing along now. We don't need to know the way home. I don't know, I'm not really good at covering it, but you know what I mean? It's just like, it's that moment of surrendering that almost like the new hero is not the hero. It's the one that gets broken and remade by life. And it's in relationship with that, which is greater at all times. You know what's so funny about us? We've gone from like heavy as fuck and spiritual to like the whores and the high priestesses and the humor and the nasty. And it's fun to bounce with you.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. This is also a recategorization and a re-understanding of what spiritual is. You know? Like spirituality. People think it has to be on a mountaintop somewhere, be in a church or be pure, we've equated spirituality with this concept of purity, of just outside of the body. But the most powerful spirituality is that fully embodied, alive in every cell spirit that moves in you, as you, and through you. Spirituality that includes when we're all dancing later tonight to Troy boy, and we're just fucking in it. Like then, it's a re-understanding of what spirituality really is. We've tried to separate good which is above, bad which is below, even the symbol of the devil is like a goat or a horn animal. Well, the goat was what gave blood and milk and meat and fed the people. And this was a revered animal in the pagan traditions. And then they're like, Nope, this represents carnality, the horny goat, the animality. So animality is bad, spirit is good. And that all that whole story needs to be collapsed so we can step into a greater wholeness.

MAMA GENA: Truth. So you're saying that the antidote is, well, the antidote to all this fucked up spirituality is for us to all party like animals tonight. That's what I'm drawing from this podcast. Is that about where you're at? Okay, fine. Good. We're going to make it digestible so we know the actions to take. Oh, no. And it's a party like animals on sacred medicine. I believe that is my conclusion. 

AUBREY MARCUS: And it's not to disclaim that it's not powerful to go to a Vipassana retreat and do all. I do all those things too. It's not like 

MAMA GENA: You've been to a Vipassana retreat? 

AUBREY MARCUS: I did the darkness retreat, which is silence. 

MAMA GENA: You get like, extra points for the darkness?

AUBREY MARCUS: Well, I feel that way, but I don't know if that's true. But fundamentally, it's similar. Silence. 

MAMA GENA: Yeah, no, it's true. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Darkness. Nobody to talk to, nobody to hear you. 

MAMA GENA: See, I would never do that. I would go like on a, fuck retreat. I was like, I don't want to go sit in darkness and go sit on a meditation cushion for 10 days. I could have orgasmic meditation for 10 days. I could just hang out in bed with my boyfriend. No, I'm kidding. 

AUBREY MARCUS: There's so many forms of beautiful medicine, you know? And people try to create a hierarchy too. Even people with the psychedelic movement, they're like, there's some way in which like, Oh, well I can get there through meditation. So you need three grams of mushrooms or a cup of ayahuasca, but I can just sit on my chair. And some part of me is like, well, does that make you a better person? Like, congratulations if you can. First of all, like, I'm not exactly sure. Have you drunk a couple cups of ayahuasca? Are you sure it's the same thing? So I have some questions. And if they can, which I believe some people can like, great, but does that make you fundamentally better. And there's also these value hierarchies that people place where the spiritual materialism, oh, well, I'm better because I can do it this way. It doesn't make you better. It's just a different path. And each path has its own advantages and disadvantages and its own effort that you have to apply. And it's beautiful to have cultivated a 40 year meditation practice where you can explore all the locus of the great cause cosmos with just your mind.

MAMA GENA: Yeah

AUBREY MARCUS: And doesn't make you better. Like we got to stop this. I'm better than you because I believe this, or I'm better than you because I do this. No, you're not better than anyone. Nobody's better than anyone.

MAMA GENA: Well, but what was it? I don't know why my mind went here, but I'm just curious. What was it, this is random, about Vylana that you were like, Oh shit, that one, I will have that woman, she will be mine. And I should say, I agree with your choice, totally. She and I just spent the last five days together with Peter, so much fun. And she did this crazy ass, like fucking mind blowing, gorgeous, ecstatic, orgasmic sound healing, with us. And it was so beautiful, but I'm wondering, like, what was it about the medicine of Vy? Where you were just like, oh shit, that is my queen. And when was the moment? 

AUBREY MARCUS: Well, we met at Burning Man.

MAMA GENA: Okay, so 

AUBREY MARCUS: And Vy was very, very closed off to my energy. Very closed off. Now, I was in a 

MAMA GENA: Now let’s say, like, just as an aside and working for my girls here. So you don't necessarily have to be open, like, because it's a vibe, right? And he could feel her underneath her closeness. And he was like, uh huh, right? 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, there was 

MAMA GENA: Because you wanted to crack that nut, didn't you?

AUBREY MARCUS: More than anything. But I could see underneath it, there was this vibrancy of being. Like when she would dance, it was like, you know how Frodo in Lord of the Rings, when the eye of Sauron was up in the sky and he was just like, ha ha ha, I can't stop looking at the eye of Sauron. It was reversed, like her booty moving around and her strings out there on the playa. I was like, Oh my God. I can't stop looking, I would have to move my face manually, like look another direction, act cool, look another direction. There is something absolutely irresistible in my attraction. So it first started with attraction, and the attraction led me to, and I could also see that there was a sense, something deeper. So I invited her to her first sacred plant medicine journey and I remember, she loves telling this story, but it was the same for me. We sat across, or we stood across from each other on the center table of Don Howard's Mesa. And we tapped into the table, which is putting two fingers on the table. And we were just looking across from each other after drinking Watuma. That day before, and I just looked in and I was like, wow, this is the most beautiful woman I've ever seen in my whole life, but I'm not looking at her beauty that on the outside, which initially allured me, I'm seeing a beauty that goes so deep that there is no end. It's like the infinite void of beauty that I could see all the way through to the first spark of creation from that moment of energy of the Big Bang coming right through her whole essence and I was like, fuck. I'm fucked. And of course, then the first time we made love, magical, mystical things occurred. It was actually not even a private encounter and making love. It was a threesome. But in that threesome, like even in the chance where I got to merge, the sacred, like the union of our bodies. Afterwards, I had an open eyed visual of this star that was in my third eye. It was just like the craziest, I've never had a vision like that. I could open my eyes, close my eyes, move all around, do whatever. I wasn't on a bunch of medicine. And this star, like a bright star. And it literally felt like God was like, let's just put an asterisk on this and never let you rest or sleep a single day until you find out what this star being is all about. And that initial desire and love and allurement to her has only just increased. As her power is going, as she's worked with you to really reclaim her own eros and sexuality in her own body, she just becomes more and more intoxicatingly irresistible to me with every passing moment of every day. 

MAMA GENA: Yeah, that's gorgeous. I love that. And are you guys going to have babies? 

AUBREY MARCUS: I don't know how you started interviewing me on this podcast here. 

MAMA GENA: I don't know. I'm curious. I'm just curious because like, I just think it would be a really nice thing. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. We're gonna have babies. We got a name. Name's gonna be Huxley. And we're gonna call him Hux. Huxley Marcus. And at least that's the idea. 

MAMA GENA: I love that name. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah, as well as, Aldous Huxley is one of my favorite authors. A book that changed my life was Aldous Huxley's book Island. And I really thought he understood something about the evolution of what culture could be. He was a unbelievable psychonaut who lived and actually literally died on the path of the medicine looking for the moksha, that perfect medicine and the quest for the holy grail and understanding the human spirit and

MAMA GENA: He just didn't know it was pussy. 

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. Maybe he did. 

MAMA GENA: I could have helped him with that.

AUBREY MARCUS: You could have helped him with that. And speaking with help, like, how would you just, let's get no tactical for just a moment here, as we're moving to close, how would you get tactical? We've talked about high level, about how important this is and like where should a woman start, if they're listening to this and like, man, that seems so far away 

MAMA GENA: Yeah.

AUBREY MARCUS: From where I'm at, like, where does a woman start?

MAMA GENA: I think the most important step, like the first thing, it's that every woman should get a copy of Pussy, a Reclamation, and it's not a joke, like it's a beautiful opening into a woman's reclamation of her sacred, erotic aliveness. Or listen to the audio if you don't like to read. But this is not a journey that a woman can do. We can't do it by ourselves. You know, you cannot just sit there like you can with meditation. Sisterhood is required. Used to be back in the days that when our mamas knew shit, this would be a mother to daughter education where, but most of our mothers have lost the thread based on growing up and living in a patriarchal world culture. So it's about sisterhood. It's about connection. And it's about a woman finding a way to say yes to her deepest fears, her deepest longing and her deepest desires and sisterhood and community is the way. So I think starting with the book is like, step on, it's really like nicely laid out. So even if you're scared, you could do okay with it.

AUBREY MARCUS: Yeah. And women of all ages are a little scared, right? Like, is it fear of, cause I think we're all afraid, not of our weakness, but of our power. 

MAMA GENA: Right on. 

AUBREY MARCUS: You know? 

MAMA GENA: Yeah. Well, I think that it's asking a woman, we've all had these chains of the patriarchy around us that we think are going to protect us. Like if we play small, we'll be okay in this life. And then you discover that playing small leads to depression, disenfranchisement, disapproval, self hatred, but it doesn't seem like there's any way out of that. And to boldly go where no woman has gone before and say yes to pleasure, yes to her sex and sexuality, yes to pussy. UGH! It's like the ultimate heroine's journey. You just need ovaries of steel to go against the culture and say, Fuck, I am going to own my beauty. I'm going to own my pussy because a woman who owns her pussy, owns her life. And you don't own your pussy, you do not own your life. And I don't care how many degrees you have, or what C suite office you work in, you do not own your pussy. You are owned by the patriarchy. So it's kind of like the time. I think that women are the greatest untapped natural resource on this planet. And the time is now.

AUBREY MARCUS: Let's go take your power back. Thank you Mama Gena, and thank you Regina. Thank you sis, for everything that you've done for this world.